any MOW struggling

[nadiaj2727]

If he was respectful of women, he wouldn't have cheated on his wife.

 

cheaters by definition are disrespectful

 

I agree with this, having an affair is disrespectful to both women (or men, if it is a MW cheating). I don't see how you can respect someone and cheat on them and lie to them. I also don't see how you can respect someone and keep them a secret and lie ABOUT them. And maybe most importantly I am convinced that while doing such things, the person doesn't have any self-respect either.

[Lookingforward]

OH, dammit OW you caught me! When I make that statment I have in the past said "with the exception of OW" I forgot this time.

 

Your situation is far too off the norm that I'm never including you. And, please, I don't mean that badly. Pretty much every other OW has followed a script

 

Plus with your situation and the abuse, I almost cried when I read about those kids... that they had to suffer that sort of abuse...I'm happy to hear they're doing better. It broke my heart to read that his exW would yell and throw things...and basically terrorize them.

 

I remember too many nights comforting my son when he came back from his father's house...then as he got older the self blame if my ExH didn't want to see him....That's one of the greatest things about my H, my son has blossomed with him in our lives...no matter what I did...he still craved that good role model, so I know far too well the ill effects of abuse... but I know there is definatley light on the other side and I'm just as passionate about people reaching it.

 

So even though I may not always agree with you, respect is there.

 

I really don't know why people keep saying OW's situation is "unique" - unless it's that she and her MM actually ended up together........ and some here are invested in pushing the line that it NEVER happens

[White Flower]

If he was respectful of women, he wouldn't have cheated on his wife.

 

cheaters by definition are disrespectful

Oh, Bish, I wasn't saying that my exMM was respectful of his W. I was saying that I was shown that I now know that I can get someone who can show me respect.

 

Disclaimer: sometimes we are happy with what we are shown and don't need to read another's mind.

[OWoman]

If he was respectful of women, he wouldn't have cheated on his wife.

 

That is the one of the most inane statements I've seen! "Cheating" on one woman does not make a MM "disrespectful of women". It makes him disrespectful of a woman. I can disrespect Robert Mugabe without being disrespectful of all Zimbabweans. I can disrespect George Bush without disrespecting all men.

[OWoman]

Oh, Bish, I wasn't saying that my exMM was respectful of his W. I was saying that I was shown that I now know that I can get someone who can show me respect.

 

Explaining doesn't help for wilful misunderstanding, WF! If someone is being deliberately obtuse, they're never going to get it.

 

But your original point is well taken - for MPs of all kinds. Sometimes it takes an A to shine the harsh light of reality onto a dysfunctional M to show it up for what it is, and to show the MP that they're worth so much more than their S is able or willing to give them. Once someone has been exposed to real love, respect and common human decency from another, settling for being treated badly in a M no longer suffices.

[share&care]

Explaining doesn't help for wilful misunderstanding, WF! If someone is being deliberately obtuse, they're never going to get it.

 

But your original point is well taken - for MPs of all kinds. Sometimes it takes an A to shine the harsh light of reality onto a dysfunctional M to show it up for what it is, and to show the MP that they're worth so much more than their S is able or willing to give them. Once someone has been exposed to real love, respect and common human decency from another, settling for being treated badly in a M no longer suffices.

This is so true! Always loved the word obtuse.

[White Flower]

Explaining doesn't help for wilful misunderstanding, WF! If someone is being deliberately obtuse, they're never going to get it.

 

But your original point is well taken - for MPs of all kinds. Sometimes it takes an A to shine the harsh light of reality onto a dysfunctional M to show it up for what it is, and to show the MP that they're worth so much more than their S is able or willing to give them. Once someone has been exposed to real love, respect and common human decency from another, settling for being treated badly in a M no longer suffices.

Yes, that is exactly what my counselor said to me. It is what I needed to see and believe that even if the R with MM goes nowhere, I would know that I am capable of finding someone I deserve and don't have to put up with H's comtemptuousness.

 

I must admit it is so interesting that even though exMM never intended to give himself over to me completely I could still decypher that he had truly shown me respect and decency on many levels. We like to trash most MM as cake-eaters, but even those kind can have some redeaming qualities. Damn them.

[share&care]

Yes, that is exactly what my counselor said to me. It is what I needed to see and believe that even if the R with MM goes nowhere, I would know that I am capable of finding someone I deserve. We like to trash most MM as cake-eaters, but even those kind can have some redeaming qualities.

This is so true. All people, good and bad have some redeaming qualities. We wouldnt survivie without at least a few good qualities to our credit.

[OWoman]

Yes, that is exactly what my counselor said to me. It is what I needed to see and believe that even if the R with MM goes nowhere, I would know that I am capable of finding someone I deserve and don't have to put up with H's comtemptuousness.

 

I must admit it is so interesting that even though exMM never intended to give himself over to me completely I could still decypher that he had truly shown me respect and decency on many levels. We like to trash most MM as cake-eaters, but even those kind can have some redeaming qualities. Damn them.

 

It's not about them, it's about us. Sometimes what we need is that very thing that they can give us, that our socially sanctioned Rs (M, family, work, whatever) can't - that feeling that we're special. I think it's very easy to fall into a role - being the good wife, the good mother, the good employee, the good daughter - and to lose contact with what's unique about ourselves. In an A, that specialness is what is foregrounded and cherished, and that little neglected bit of ourself starts basking in the nourishment and noticing how sorely it's lacking elsewhere. We feel OK asking for, and expecting, our specialness to be foregrounded in an A, because that's part of the package. Whether it's the MM telling you he's never known anyone quite as wonderful, or showering you with gifts and treats, or just taking care of your sexual needs in that focused, intense way - feeling special is part of the deal. Most of us would feel downright silly asking our employers or our siblings or even our long-term SOs to make us feel special. We want to feel special without having to ask. An A gives us that. And helps us to reconnect with being special. And if that helps us to wear our specialness like a chanel scarf and demand that others acknowledge it in their relationships with us, how can that possibly be a bad thing?

[Order & Chaos]

I have been wondering something but haven't asked. Why does everyone say that an affair is an addiction and the feelings aren't real but what is normally discribed is what I have seen as the beginning of any new relationship?

 

Aren't all new relationships addictions then? Anyway confused by that statement.

 

And as someone else said, why is OW's story so different? B/c she ended up with the MM? Is that really so abnormal?

 

Oh and I agree, this carte blanche idea that disrespecting one woman means the MM is disrespecting all woman is ludicrous. Not saying that it can't ever be the cause but I can't see it as the norm. But just my opinion.

[OWoman]

I have been wondering something but haven't asked. Why does everyone say that an affair is an addiction and the feelings aren't real but what is normally discribed is what I have seen as the beginning of any new relationship?

 

Aren't all new relationships addictions then? Anyway confused by that statement.

 

O&C you aren't the first to raise that question - I think at one stage it was TC's refrain! (TC forgive me if I'm misquoting or misremembering here!) The answer that that is usually smacked down with is "yes but 'normal Rs' outgrow that infatuation and move onto something more deep, more lasting" implying that As are just puppy love. Well, those of us who've seen long-term, stable As of a decade or longer know that they, too, morph into something deeper and more abiding than the fireworks and fantasy of the sweaty-palm beginnings of any R - or can, if that's what both parties want. Thing is, while there's pretty much a set script for M, for an A there are many possible ways for it to develop, and each poster will cling to their favourite as the "natural" progression and assume - or will - each case presented here to fit into that progression.

 

And as someone else said, why is OW's story so different? B/c she ended up with the MM? Is that really so abnormal?

 

Ask Owl - it's his mantra There are other OWs here who've ended up with their MMs (hello GEL - Lyssa - anyone else who cares to chime in). But usually the factors people refer to are:

 

• I was happy as the OW. It was what I wanted. I wasn't wanting him to leave his W (that came later as the R changed).
  
• his M was abusive, and his family, friends, colleagues and kids openly supported the A and were delighted when he left his W.
  
• our A was never hidden - his W was the only one who didn't know - and I was never second-bested in his life or reduced to fitting in around his other plans.
  
• I'm not tortured by fears that he may, in turn "cheat" on me because I'm not a subscriber to sexual exclusivity.
  

I'm not sure how unusual any of that really is - there are others whose stories match at least some of that - but that's typically behind what people mean when they say I'm an exception.

 

Oh and I agree, this carte blanche idea that disrespecting one woman means the MM is disrespecting all woman is ludicrous. Not saying that it can't ever be the cause but I can't see it as the norm. But just my opinion.

 

There are others who'd say that the OW's "disrespecting one woman" by "stealing" her H means she's disrespecting all women, and is thus guilty of high treason but that's a little off topic...

[pelicanpreacher]

Explaining doesn't help for wilful misunderstanding, WF! If someone is being deliberately obtuse, they're never going to get it.

 

But your original point is well taken - for MPs of all kinds. Sometimes it takes an A to shine the harsh light of reality onto a dysfunctional M to show it up for what it is, and to show the MP that they're worth so much more than their S is able or willing to give them. Once someone has been exposed to real love, respect and common human decency from another, settling for being treated badly in a M no longer suffices.

 

I think you've seen the "Shawshank Redemption" too many times!

(Oh, how long have you been waiting to zing somebody with that word)

[Order & Chaos]

OW-

 

You know why I think you are the exception? Becuase at no point, regardless of what "role" or "label" you had, you have never been a victim in your life. You make life happen, life doen't happen to you.

 

On all these threads, men and women, I see people taking the victim mentality about how life happened to them. They were caught by a married person, they were cheated on by an evil spouse, an OW happened to them, etc.

 

In my mind, there are very few victims in life and very few situations that just happen to people.

 

I am proud to take full responsibility of all my decisions, good and bad. I learn my lessons, grow as a person, and look forward to new challenges.

 

You seem to be the same way. You know, OW, I think I like you. You seem to be one cool chick.

[MOWnSouth]

yes I most defiantly did say that. any relationship has a grieving process and it's perfectly natural to have those feelings. you answered your own question as far as my happiness goes:

 

I except my lions share of responsibility for my part of that relationship and realize if theres a component in my life that's making me some what unhappy I am the only one in control to change it.

 

the moment I don't take responsibility and start blaming everyone else for my issues then I will never move on from that place that was making feel what ever at the time.

 

To most surprise however I am incredibly happy. not everyday but is there anyone who really can say they never have a cloudy day? I seriously doubt it.

 

the OP's original post only asked for other MOW's to lean on for support. so now she knows I am one and can pm me any time.

 

As far as me criticizing others in this thread I suppose I am criticizing the critics, I'll give you that. I'll not be a critic the minuet I don't see the usual suspects doing the same. so till then I will just be the little hypocrite LNF

 

Thank you for your post. I certainly appreciate insight from those who have been there!

[MOWnSouth]

Hi MOWnSouth,

 

I was a MOW to a MOM. I am divorcing now, but I will not say it was because I left for MM; rather, I was shown a better kind of love and now know that something better is out there than my H. Thanks to exMM, I know I am capable of finding someone who is successful, gorgeous, and respectful of women.

 

I was hanging in there for the kids sake but they kept witnessing me being cut down and hurt by my H. I kept having discussions with my kids and it was them who encouraged me to D. When my youngest finally agreed with the two older ones, I went straight to my attorney with the retainer the very next Monday morning. It took over 20 years, but I finally russled up the courage and strength to leave him. You haven't shared much of your story, but you certainly don't sound happy at home. Have you considered that divorcing might actually benefit your children as opposed to hurting them? For us, my kids needed to see that negative behavior will not be rewarded. They deserve to witness their mother being respected, cherished, and loved. I'd rather have them see me lonely as opposed to neglected or even worse, hurt.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

You have really hit the nail on the head. My MM has done the same for me. He has made me realize that there are healthier relationships out there and happier ones even if he is not the one to provide that on a permanent basis. I have talked with my husband about our M and my unhappiness. He just became angry with me. I also wanted counseling, which he didn't go to...just me. He has just become someone else other than the man I married. I did leave for several months and it was aweful on my children. I went back. We do not fight and my family is not in chaos. As far as my kids know, everything is just great...I suck it up and make them a happy home. All of this was even before my A.

So when I met someone by chance, we enjoyed each others company and it just went from there. I no that I have choosen this path and its wrong. But I can't change the fact that at this time the best for my kids is for me to be with their father, regardless of my unhappiness. So that is what I WILL do. There will come a day when I feel they can accept me leaving, its just not now. I wouldn't leave if my MM wanted me too. So yes...I am being a selfish by having the A but it would be more selfish in my eyes to tear my childrens life apart with D at this time.

And to be clear...I don't mind words of wisdom from those who have been in my shoes. And 99% of the posts are eye openers and well taken. That I thank you for. I am not a bad person yet I am not proud of where I am, I have guilt but I also enjoy having a man in my life who can make me smile again. Selfish...absolutely! Sounds crazy but it makes it easier to go home and smile. And in the end my kids smile.

I will end this A because i do realize what might happen if I don't. When I am not sure yet...

Thank you again!

[MOWnSouth]

OW-

 

You know why I think you are the exception? Becuase at no point, regardless of what "role" or "label" you had, you have never been a victim in your life. You make life happen, life doen't happen to you.

 

On all these threads, men and women, I see people taking the victim mentality about how life happened to them. They were caught by a married person, they were cheated on by an evil spouse, an OW happened to them, etc.

 

In my mind, there are very few victims in life and very few situations that just happen to people.

 

I am proud to take full responsibility of all my decisions, good and bad. I learn my lessons, grow as a person, and look forward to new challenges.

 

You seem to be the same way. You know, OW, I think I like you. You seem to be one cool chick.

 

I agree with you and OW! thank you for your posts!

[Owl]

The reason Owoman's situation is "different" is exactly as she described:

 

-She PREFERRED being the OW to different MM over the course of her life. She sought out that kind of relationship as opposed to "falling in love" with a MM....until she met her current MM.

 

-MM's family supports the affair.

 

-MM does actually APPEAR to have come from a truly abusive marriage. Normally, they lie and make it sound like it was, but there's nothing to support those claims.

 

-Owoman doesn't believe in the sanctity of marriage, or in monogamy in any fashion.

 

-Owoman is planning on marrying her MM once everything is done...regardless of her actual views on marriage.

 

All of these factors by themselves would be unusual...but its even more so that they all occur in her situation at the same time.

[Owl]

And as to an affair being "addictive"...

 

The feelings generated by the "in love" stage of any relationship...affair or otherwise...are by themselves tremendously addictive. That's why you see many people who can't manage a relationship that lasts longer than two years...because as the "in love" transitions to a "lasting love" relationship, that addiction begins to wear off, and they're no longer getting their 'fix'. Then, they move on.

 

These feelings are hugely intensified when the "in love" stage is created in an affair. Hence...even MORE addictive and potent.

 

Read chapter 3 of "The Five Love Languages" for some good background and references on this.

[OWoman]

I think you've seen the "Shawshank Redemption" too many times!

(Oh, how long have you been waiting to zing somebody with that word)

 

Sadly, that's one movie I have yet to see - it's on my "to do" list but the DVD is always out when I remember to look for it

[bish]

That is the one of the most inane statements I've seen! "Cheating" on one woman does not make a MM "disrespectful of women". It makes him disrespectful of a woman.

 

And if he can disrespect on, he can certainly disrespect another...and another.

[stillafool]

Oh bull. You and this other guy had the guts to screw around on your spouses, have the guts to either break it off completely or divorce your spouses.

 

Don't give us this "easier said than done" tripe. Your little "feelings" for this other man are irrelevant and I'm not moved in the slightest. You need to grow the female equivalent of cahones and dump your OM, or dump your H. Make a decision because it isn't fair to your husband.

 

But something tells me you don't care what is fair to him. Its all about you.

 

 

You know I can't help but wonder if a house and a husband's paycheck wasn't involved how easy it would be to leave in spite of the children?

[MOWnSouth]

You know I can't help but wonder if a house and a husband's paycheck wasn't involved how easy it would be to leave in spite of the children?

 

In my case none! I make almost twice what my H does and would leave him with the house if he could afford it, or even do what I could to help him afford it since its nxt to his family.

[OWoman]

And if he can disrespect on, he can certainly disrespect another...and another.

 

Sure CAN. Can is not DOES. You have a penis, so you can rape a woman. DO you rape women? I'd guess not.

 

So either your original argument (that disrespecting one woman necessarily means disrespecting all) doesn't hold, or you're a rapist by virtue of having the capacity. Which is it?

[Owl]

Well, to follow your argument, Owoman.

 

The REAL comparison has nothing to do with errr....equipment.

 

The REAL comparison along the lines of what you brought up would be this...he's demonstrated that he can and HAS raped someone in the past, so can do so again. And we all know that this is indeed a very, very common occurrence. There's a "history" demonstrated by his prior behavior.

 

Bish's point is that this man HAS treated at least one woman that he claims to have loved like dirt in the past...his wife. If he's done that to her...he could (and likely will) do so again.

[OWoman]

Well, to follow your argument, Owoman.

 

The REAL comparison has nothing to do with errr....equipment.

 

The REAL comparison along the lines of what you brought up would be this...he's demonstrated that he can and HAS raped someone in the past, so can do so again. And we all know that this is indeed a very, very common occurrence. There's a "history" demonstrated by his prior behavior.

 

Bish's point is that this man HAS treated at least one woman that he claims to have loved like dirt in the past...his wife. If he's done that to her...he could (and likely will) do so again.

 

Owl - Bish's argument was based on capacity, so I responded in kind. Yours is based on past performance - which is a slightly different argument, but one which is equally easy to refute since it requires an understanding of environmental factors (the so called "confounders" one needs to identify in order to establish that there is correlation, as a precursor to proving causality) and in such a case it's easy to say, well, the situations are not the same: he's proven (by past performance) that he can "cheat" on (for example) a fat middle-aged mother of 23 children; there's no evidence to suggest he can "cheat" on a svelte 25 year old blonde who prefers cats to kids.

 

But OK, enough of the t/j - fact is, it was an inane argument whichever grounds you want to push it on.