ready to cross the line

[Elena62]

 

It was not because I wanted to say goodbye. I am in love with him, I long for him, I miss him so badly it has me physically sick and mentally depressed. Two weeks ago I was walking on sunshine, and had been for 7 months. And now I want to crawl in a dark hole - i feel so empty inside.

 

 

I remember when my H had his first affair when I was pregnant with our first child. I KNEW he felt so bad inside because I loved him back then so much I knew when he was hurting. Believe me, your H KNOWS how you're feeling right now.

 

Of course you feel sick and empty inside. I wouldn't dream of invalidating your feelings, what you feel is pretty real. But you made a commitment to your marriage and once the purity of that is broken believe me it takes a miracle and years to get it back on track!

 

 

I have been in a marriage that has made me feel dead and empty inside for 5 years. My husband refused MC. Then all of a sudden this man appears in my life who makes me feel alive for the first time in a long time. It's hard to say, "Sorry. Get out of my life. I'd rather feel dead and empty inside with my husband than alive with you."

 

I am not trying to make excuses. There are no excuses. This is just the reality.

 

My husband and I are starting MC. Maybe some good will come from the EA.

 

I believe all things happen for a reason. Maybe the reason for the EA was to put my marriage back on the right track...

 

Maybe it WAS to put it back on track? Who knows. BUT the reality of an EA or PA is that it takes the purity out of marriage. That your H has agreed to MC is a good thing, but realize it's not a magic formula. The reality is that your H and you are responsible for the breakdown of your marriage and you are both now responsible to bring it back to a new place.

 

I've been in my marriage for YEARS. Actually, I'm legally separated. BEFORE my H cut the marriage off and we talked things over and he decided to lead a separate life, I was approached by men and I turned them down flat. No matter what state my marriage was in, I would tell my H that I had been approached. What that did for a long time was to reinforce my marriage. In fact my H defended me so many times. (Wow he loved me so much back then dammit!) We were strong because of TRUTH, and that was AFTER he had his affair, we went to MC and tried to repair things between us. So no matter how dismal your relationship is with your H, you still have a responsibility to yourself to do what's right for you in terms of the boundaires of marriage.

 

Just keep in mind that IF you meet him again, it will turn into a PA and there is NO turning back. Your marriage will be damaged, your selfworth will be damaged, guilt will be inside of your for a long time, if not forever, every time you hear the word "cheater" or "ho," it will remind you of yourself. Keep absolutely no contact, or disaster will follow.

 

Rain is right. Although I hate the word "ho" because it's just so derogatory. People deserve mercy, and most of all people deserve forgiveness. No one is faultless - even the people that come on here placing blame on their partner. It takes two to makes vows, it takes two for a marriage to breakdown - and it takes two to fix up a marriage!

 

I don't think you need to beat yourself up to the degree that Rain is suggesting you will in the future. But your sense of self-worth WILL become distorted.

 

Taylor, I think it's brave that you've opened yourself up like this. Please try all avenues first before you end your marriage. Be honest with your H and tell him what is missing for you in your marriage and be prepared for your H to tell you the same - and most of all to accept your part in your failing primary relationship. If you end up getting separated/divorced at least you know you've tried.

 

If you want to ask me any questions please PM me!

 

Happy Easter, Taylor!

[TheRain]

I hope one day I can find someone decent, that believes in the purity of marriage like I do. But for now, I must remain on my own.

 

Do you really? If you did, you wouldn't have sex with a married man while you yourself was still married.

[stampdaddy]

Do you really? If you did, you wouldn't have sex with a married man while you yourself was still married.

Rain, out of your 42 posts now, has even ONE been productive???

[TheRain]

Rain, out of your 42 posts now, has even ONE been productive???

 

Yes, the majority of my posts are productive. Has your having been having sex with someone else's wife been productive?

[Elena62]

Do you really? If you did, you wouldn't have sex with a married man while you yourself was still married.

 

Oh sarcasm and wit. Before you get on you high horse, Rain, get your facts straight and don't point your finger at me so freely without my prior consent.

 

What went on in my home and what agreements I reached with my exH eight years ago is nobodys business. But whilst "married" I NEVER slept with another man, (exH will back me on that!) betrayed my husband OR became a "ho"

 

So get it right, okay? You don't know my story other than the things I have posted on here - you don't know the whole deal with my once M, and quite frankly it's none of your business!

[Elena62]

Rain, out of your 42 posts now, has even ONE been productive???

 

Probably not Stamp! But then again, it doesn't matter. Because it doesn't matter than my exH screwed around for the whole of my marriage. It's not his fault, right? It's an outsiders fault. Oh and lets not forget, it's my fault for allowing it to happen, Oh and not to forget, also, that he threw me under the bus eight years ago and I had the whole family involved with trying to reason with him.

 

Oh but all that doesn't matter! Because I didn't slit my wrists in desperation to try and save my marriage.

 

Those who like to cast stones are not without sin themselves!

 

What a load of boll@@ks!

 

I'm done with this nonsense!

[TheRain]

Probably not Stamp! But then again, it doesn't matter. Because it doesn't matter than my exH screwed around for the whole of my marriage. It's not his fault, right? It's an outsiders fault. Oh and lets not forget, it's my fault for allowing it to happen, Oh and not to forget, also, that he threw me under the bus eight years ago and I had the whole family involved with trying to reason with him.

 

I never said that he was faultless. I am just pointing out to you that you're wrong for knowlingly sleeping with a married man.

Edited March 22, 2008 by TheRain

[Elena62]

I never said that he was faultless. I am just pointing out to you that you're wrong for sleeping with another man while you were still married AND for knowlingly sleeping with a married man.

 

Excuse me I am not MARRIED! I have even sought counsel on this one with my pastor. So please don't invalidate everything that I have been through for the past eight years to get where I am today. I am not married, I am not married in the eyes of GOD and my ring has been taken away from me, do you understand that part or should I clarify that further?

 

I don't need to be reminded of all that pain from someone who is obviously inconsiderate.

 

What I did with another MM was wrong because he was still married. Yes, that I can say I was wrong about. But so was he!

 

And I have removed myself from that situation, and made my peace with God, okay?

[taylor]

Happy Easter to all!

 

Come on, everyone, didn't mean for this thread to provoke hostilities among the posters. This site is for support and advice...

 

ANyways, just a quick update.

 

I broke down and contacted the OM via text. Told him I felt uncomfortable about how things ended and wanted to know if we could talk. He called and said he would love to talk about what happened between us.

 

We have yet to talk due to other extenuating circumstances in my life and his life.

 

But as time goes on I am gaining a better perspective about what happened between us and why.

 

I am so thankful this EA did not turn into a PA now. You all are right. There would have been no turning back and both of us would have lost respect for ourselves and each other...

[OpenBook]

I broke down and contacted the OM via text. Told him I felt uncomfortable about how things ended and wanted to know if we could talk. He called and said he would love to talk about what happened between us.

 

Why do you want to talk to him about "how things ended" -- what's the point? What do you hope to get out of it? I would bet good money that he's hoping the "talk" will turn into sex. Men (as a rule) do not like to talk about feelings and emotions and relationships and "how things ended." It's strange territory for them, and it makes them uncomfortable (just watch their body language -- how they squirm around in their seat)... UNLESS they have an ulterior motive, to manipulate you into doing something they want you to do. And guess what THAT is!?!

 

I am so thankful this EA did not turn into a PA now. You all are right. There would have been no turning back and both of us would have lost respect for ourselves and each other...

 

I know that he would have lost respect for you. It's the way men are -- once you cross that line and have sex with them, they no longer value you as highly. It's weird and sad, but all too true. So I'm glad for your sake that you didn't "give it up" -- and I hope you don't when you have your "talk" with him.

[ookla_2]

Why do you want to talk to him about "how things ended" -- what's the point? What do you hope to get out of it? I would bet good money that he's hoping the "talk" will turn into sex. Men (as a rule) do not like to talk about feelings and emotions and relationships and "how things ended." It's strange territory for them, and it makes them uncomfortable (just watch their body language -- how they squirm around in their seat)... UNLESS they have an ulterior motive, to manipulate you into doing something they want you to do. And guess what THAT is!?!

 

 

 

I know that he would have lost respect for you. It's the way men are -- once you cross that line and have sex with them, they no longer value you as highly. It's weird and sad, but all too true. So I'm glad for your sake that you didn't "give it up" -- and I hope you don't when you have your "talk" with him.

 

I have to agree here. Talking about what happened and what didn't but maybe almost happened is only going to prolong it. If you know it's wrong, and you know you don't want it to go any further, then getting together to talk is just setting yourself up for danger. I know it's tough, and trust me, I'm not judging (been there), just offering up my experience....you're gonna have to let it go.

[TheRain]

Happy Easter to all!

 

Come on, everyone, didn't mean for this thread to provoke hostilities among the posters. This site is for support and advice...

 

ANyways, just a quick update.

 

I broke down and contacted the OM via text. Told him I felt uncomfortable about how things ended and wanted to know if we could talk. He called and said he would love to talk about what happened between us.

 

We have yet to talk due to other extenuating circumstances in my life and his life.

 

But as time goes on I am gaining a better perspective about what happened between us and why.

 

I am so thankful this EA did not turn into a PA now. You all are right. There would have been no turning back and both of us would have lost respect for ourselves and each other...

 

I agree with the above two posters. One of the stupidest things one can do is meet with a "lover" one last time to have "closure." The worst that can happen is you end up crossing that PA line and the best that can happen is that it will set you back emotinally and creating doubts and all that crap that will further damage your marriage. Meet with him will cause further damage to your marriage. If that's what you want, go ahead, if not, you should starte NC now....actually, it should have been yesterday.

[GreenEyedLady]

I agree with the above two posters. One of the stupidest things one can do is meet with a "lover" one last time to have "closure." The worst that can happen is you end up crossing that PA line and the best that can happen is that it will set you back emotinally and creating doubts and all that crap that will further damage your marriage. Meet with him will cause further damage to your marriage. If that's what you want, go ahead, if not, you should starte NC now....actually, it should have been yesterday.

 

I don't know, but I think the stupidest thing a person can do is to give advice on something they know absolutely nothing about...

 

Go figure...

[torranceshipman]

Hey Taylor,

If you want to do the right thing by everyone, work out what action give the MOST respect to your H and do it, no matter what that entails. Being honest and respectful is the best thing, 100%-might be the hardest thing at the time but I think in the long term its always the winner....

 

Just be completely honest with your H, say you think your M is in crisis (it is if you're thinking about someone else all the time!!) and you need some time apart, or you need counselling, or whatever - it is v.hard for him but its also the most respectful - whats the alternative?-disrespect him by lying to him - thats not a good thing - you'd feel like crap, it'd be a poor excuse for a marriage....and you both only have one life - dont waste it with regrets or with the wrong person or doing things that you're ashamed of...

[Owl]

Closure often is only an excuse for continued contact. Even if you're not consciously thinking about it...that's often what it boils down to.

 

What, specifically, do you hope to gain in meeting with him?

[taylor]

OWL,

 

I don't have plans to meet the OM. I want to talk to him on the phone - safer that way.

Because of extenuating circumstances in both of our lives (an illness in his family, a death in mine), this phone conversation has been put on hold. It's been 12 days since we talked. Yesterday I received a card from him via another coworker. THe card just said, "Call anytime if you need to talk."

 

What do I hope to gain from closure? I guess what I want is to pay tribute to the friendship we had, let him know how much it meant to me, let him know how I didn't plan for "romantic, sexual feelings" to complicate the friendship, but to let him know that since these "romantic" feelings did come into play, we can't continue the friendship even though it means so much to me.

 

I know he wants to continue the friendship, too, as if there were nothing more to it. He doesn't understand why I sent him a goodbye letter. He kept asking me, "Why do we have to say goodbye? Why can't we just be friends like we were?"

 

I want to tell him that as much as I value our friendship, I can't go backwards - the relationship moved too far beyond friendship for me to turn back. Maybe he can shove the "romantic" feelings to the back of his mind, but I can't. I also need to know how he feels about losing the friendship - if it meant as much to him as it did to me. I need to know if I hurt him and if I did, to tell him I am sorry for how things turned out. I didn't mean for our relationship to get out of hand.

 

The OM and I were good friends before "romantic" feelings started to creep in. We built a trust between us over a 5 month period and shared some pretty personal things about our lives with each other. For him to trust me was a huge step for him because he said he had been let down by so many people in his life that he didn't think he would ever be able to trust anyone again. We became dependent on each other like friends do. I kept assuring him he could count on me..that I would never hurt him or let him down. We were there for each other, enjoying the highs and supporting each other through the lows.

 

THe "romantic" feelings that developed between us were very subtle at first - so subtle that I denied them and tried to brush them away. It wasn't until mid-January to early February that these feelings became more obvious and we both started to act on them by spending more time together. And it wasn't until early February that the sexual tension started to build. I know that if things had been allowed to progress it would not have been long before we both would have reached a point where we would have had to decide if we were going to cross the line or not. Both of us were trying hard not to cross that line out of respect for each other, my marriage, and the relationship he was in.

 

My husband and I have our first MC session next week. I told him I wanted to have the closure talk with the OM before we start MC. He said, "Do what you have to do."

[taylor]

I have been very honest with my husband about the OM. As I process what happened between the OM and I and how it happened, I try to explain to my husband. He listens but I know it hurts him. Is this really doing any good?

 

Also, since my husband has learned of the OM and considers this a "wake up" call regarding the state of our marriage, he has become extremely attentive and affectionate and wants to spend every minute together...a complete 360 degree turnabout..The hard part is he wants me to reciprocate with the same degree of attention and affection...and when I don't...he's hurt.

 

I don't know what to do...I don't want to hurt him...he's trying...I just wish he would have done this a year ago...before I met the OM...now I am still so confused about my feelings for him and my feelings for the OM. I can't turn my feelings on and off like a faucet...and I don't know how to give my husband 100 percent of my heart when the OM touched my heart so profoundly this past year...

 

How do you get your heart back when someone has stolen a piece of it?

[81West]

Hey Taylor...sorry you're hurting so much but you are almost certainly doing the right thing working on your marriage, and sadly that requires a severing of your relationship with the OM at least in the short and medium terms, and maybe forever. Though many won't agree, I think you're also right in having the final discussion with the OM. The things you want to express and hear expressed back were totally absent from the end of my own EA with MM as he chose to simply drop out of my life without warning or explanation. It has delayed my ability to move on emotionally immeasurably. If you leave it like this your former relationship with OM will remain a beautiful aching mirage just at the edges of your horizon, at once unreachable and ever seductive.

 

Good luck with everything.

[whichwayisup]

and I don't know how to give my husband 100 percent of my heart when the OM touched my heart so profoundly this past year...

 

You start by having that last conversation with OM on the phone and say goodbye forever. You can't have anything to do with OM, no friendship. No emails, no calls, nothing. Once you close your heart off from him, only then you'll be able to see if you can dig up those feelings for your husband.

 

You're very lucky to have a husband who is willing to give you a chance to make it work.

[taylor]

If you leave it like this your former relationship with OM will remain a beautiful aching mirage just at the edges of your horizon, at once unreachable and ever seductive.

 

Good luck with everything.

 

 

This is exactly how I would feel if I didn't talk to him one more time to clear the air and put a definite end to our relationship. The relationship would always be "out there."...It sounds wierd but I wish we could just get angry with each other about something...that would make ending it so much easier. Instead, this relationship is being severed right in that "butterfly," "cloud 9" stage. A frustrating time to just walk away.

 

This "walking away from each other" because it's the right thing to do - it's admirable...but it hurts like hell. I don't want to end it just because it's the "right" thing to do...I want to be able to say I ended it because I no longer want him..I want my husband....BUT I haven't reached that point...That's what makes this sooooo hard.

[81West]

This is exactly how I would feel if I didn't talk to him one more time to clear the air and put a definite end to our relationship. The relationship would always be "out there."...It sounds wierd but I wish we could just get angry with each other about something...that would make ending it so much easier. Instead, this relationship is being severed right in that "butterfly," "cloud 9" stage. A frustrating time to just walk away.

 

This "walking away from each other" because it's the right thing to do - it's admirable...but it hurts like hell. I don't want to end it just because it's the "right" thing to do...I want to be able to say I ended it because I no longer want him..I want my husband....BUT I haven't reached that point...That's what makes this sooooo hard.

 

This is where you have to apply pure logic with extreme prejudice. You already know intellectually that you are simply not comparing apples to oranges, and you just need your emotions to catch up over time. Being somebody's office love is exponentially easier than being someone's husband. The relationship with the OM has no where to go but down - down to ground where all relationships eventually land. The relationship with your husband has tumbled into a hole over time - one dug by both parties in their own way at different times. You have to do the arduous work of climbing back out to full daylight - and level ground. Only then can you really know what the best course for you is. Way more work than we usually attach to notions of love and romance but I guess that's the hard reality in the end.

 

It remains a possibility that remaining in your current marriage for the rest of your days is not the right thing for your life. But to be able to have full confidence in a decision as monumental as that you need to have complete objectivity, something wholly unacheivable in the blush of new love.

 

Again, I believe I know exactly how you feel and it's an awful feeling - a thousand pounds of longing and melancholy. But for now you're doing the right thing. You really are.

[taylor]

Feeling some major depression today. Can't even get dressed. Considering getting some anti-depressants to help me through this..

 

It's been 3 weeks since I met with the OM. That is when I gave him the goodbye letter spilling my guts out about how I really felt about him. It was quite an emotionally explosive letter. I'm sure he didn't expect that from me.

 

He told me that day and the next day he wanted to keep in contact and retain a friendship. He told me he was going to respond to my letter and let me know how he felt. He wanted to know the best time of day to contact me (when my husband was at work). He said he didn't want to lose me.

 

Several days went by and no letter, no contact. I started getting the notion he was feeling uncomfortable about taking anything out of the workplace. I was too. I texted him, saying, "Feeling a little uncomfortable about last week. Maybe you, too? Wanna talk?" He responded right back with, "Yes, I'd love to talk with you." We set up a date and time to talk on the phone but a sudden death in my family postponed this conversation. It's been 12 days now.

 

Should I even bother? Is there too much water under the bridge by now? Heck in that amount of time he may have got himself a girlfriend and been on a couple dates.

 

I have tried to call him in the past five days and sent him one text message. No reply. I'm so confused. He knows I want to talk to clear the air....

 

I don't know what to do. I don't want our friendship to end like this. There are so many unspoken words. I would at least like for us to both acknowledge to each other that what we had was an EA - that it HAD gone beyond friendship and that we are both moralistic enough to know the relationship can't continue.

 

At this point, he's making me feel like I was the only one in an EA. He still considers our relationship a friendship even though he admitted he wanted to cross the line. He's making me feel like he's going NC because I got too attached to him...UUGGHH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to know what he is feeling. I want to know how he felt about my letter. I don't want him to judge me for the feelings I have for him. I want to know if he really cared, or if it was all just fun and games. I want to know if he is hurting like I am. I want to tell him I am sorry if he is hurting. I want to know if he is angry at me or hates me. I want to know if he feels any guilt - he shouldn't - I take the blame.

 

I know nothing about how he is doing or feeling. For all I know he is busy getting involved with another girl at his new place of employment and has tucked me far into his memory banks.

 

I want him to know what I am feeling. I want him to know I still care about him...that I didn't mean for our friendship to get out of hand. I want to come to the conclusion together that what we had was wonderful but can't continue.

 

But it sounds to me like he is moving on by initiating NC and not telling me. If he is "running" from me, then I will respect that and leave him alone. But if he is hurt or angry, I want a chance to explain. I want him to know that it wasn't all fun and games for me. I wasn't looking for something exciting on the side. I genuinely cared about him so much that I started to fall in love with him. Perhaps my letter scared him. Perhaps I spilled my guts too much and he is backing away..or perhaps he feels the same as I do but knows it could only lead to a PA, and so he is avoiding that by going NC.

 

Whichever way it is, I would like to know. I hate the not knowing. I want to know just where everything stands. I think it would help to put everything behind me. Does this make any sense?

 

 

My husband and I are continuing to talk for hours and hours every evening. He said he hates to see the pain in my eyes. I said I hate to see the pain in his. We can't seem to get past the pain.

[whichwayisup]

It's all pointless. He is married, you are married...There's no point in taking this any further so let it go. You two crossed a line and both of you are uncomfortable with it, so it's back off time...

 

Keep talking to your husband, sort this out. Do counselling, get the MM out of your system and focus on reconnecting with your husband.

[81West]

I feel for you so much, because your post is such an echo of my own scattered thoughts and emotions over an EA. I think you have to distill this way, way down. I wonder if your thoughts and reactions are actually saying something deeper than their surface expression, and if that's the case you need to figure that out before you move ahead.

 

I did a little exercise the other night to try and purge some of the relentless anguish I am feeling over the fact that the other party in my 15 month EA simply dropped out of my life without a single word over a year ago. I let flow on paper all the major thoughts and emotions his choice have evoked in me over this time, and then began the process of examining them objectively with a cognitive reather than emotional eye. It brought some new clarity for me, and some next steps.

 

In the same way, I think you might benefit from considering whether your emotions and perceptions may be saying something about your broader fears. You are giving this OM enormous power to define the value of your relationship (and by extension you) through actions whose motivation you can only guess at. Take your worst case scenario as far as it pertains to future contact with him, and write down the storm of emotions that would bring. There will be information there. Maybe lots of it.

[taylor]

OK. More heartache. More depression.

I called the OM again last night. No response.

Called one last time tonight. Again, no answer, so I left a message..I told him I would like to talk one last time to get closure, clear the air..told him to call me if he wanted to talk, also..and that if he didn't call I would understand..I told him this would be my last call to him otherwise..

I waited. No response. I guess that's all the closure I am going to get.

 

I'm sure he realizes our relationship would go nowhere outside the workplace, we both have enough morals to not turn what we had into something sordid....but I would like to have heard those words out his mouth. I think I deserved at least a phone call to that effect.

 

It would have been nice to have a conversation with him in which he acknowledged the value of our relationship..assured me that we did mean something to each other...but realized we couldn't take it beyond the workplace. With no phone call, I feel like he just thru me out with yesterday's trash.

 

He just walked away and left me hanging, not really knowing what was in his head. Why do men do this? I deserved better. I spilled my guts out to him in a letter, telling him my innermost feelings, leaving myself so vulnerable to him, desperate to hear his response..and what do I get from him....NOTHING. When he spilled his guts out in a Valentine's Card to me, I at least acknowledged his heartfelt words and told him how much they meant to me. He was thrilled at my response.....It was after that that things between us moved into full swing.

 

But what a difference in responses.....I guess now I found a reason to be angry with him. I hope that will make it easier to get over him....

 

I know it's pointless to dwell on the OM but I am going thru withdrawal of the relationship and I thought getting some closure would help me thru the withdrawal. I don't think I can concentrate fully on my husband until I can get thru the pain of this withdrawal.