OpenBook Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 In John's defense, his honesty in posting here about his personal affairs can provide very valuable insight to many OW's and BS's alike who are grappling with a MM. I think we can all agree that the vast majority of OW-MM relationships do NOT work out in the end. When you're trying to understand the reasons why they don't, I think John is onto something when he says that the MM will get away with whatever the OW LETS HIM get away with... and on some level he loses respect for her just because of the fact that she willingly enters the relationship and accepts the lower position in his life. There are always exceptions, of course. Always. But I believe John's viewpoint is just as valid as anyone else's posting on here. Even though I'm completely mystified by his waffling and by his unwillingness to do a hard court press to get his W back. I still want to hear what he has to say.
MimiMe Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 "(the lack of respect to her is well deserved) and he's been with me for under 6 months. I'm trying to be understanding that this is not a black and white matter no matter how i want it to be. It's a big change." This being my first post ever... I am in disbelief! Honey, by you entailing a relationship with this man, one day you will be in the same place as his wife. Her being dysfunctional was not your problem , it was his and now sounds like an excuse for you to justify the fact that you are perhaps the reason why he is not with her. Have you asked yourself... If I didn't open the doors to this affair, would he still be with her? the answer is most likely YES! No pun intended, but in this situation everyone loses! At least you get to walk away and find a new refreshing relationship with a new dude, and hope that he is drama-free. The MM got his cake and sure ate it too and must know pay the consequences of a "guilty concience" and the Wife lives in misery and trapped in her own shell. Best of luck to all of you and I hope there are no children involved!
angelj Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) "(the lack of respect to her is well deserved) and he's been with me for under 6 months. I'm trying to be understanding that this is not a black and white matter no matter how i want it to be. It's a big change." This being my first post ever... I am in disbelief! Honey, by you entailing a relationship with this man, one day you will be in the same place as his wife. Her being dysfunctional was not your problem , it was his and now sounds like an excuse for you to justify the fact that you are perhaps the reason why he is not with her. Have you asked yourself... If I didn't open the doors to this affair, would he still be with her? the answer is most likely YES! No pun intended, but in this situation everyone loses! At least you get to walk away and find a new refreshing relationship with a new dude, and hope that he is drama-free. The MM got his cake and sure ate it too and must know pay the consequences of a "guilty concience" and the Wife lives in misery and trapped in her own shell. Best of luck to all of you and I hope there are no children involved! That is one thing I have also tried to remind myself (after trapping myself into thinking about becoming the OW) if i weren't around...he would be with her...if it wasn't me engaging in this affair with him...it would be someone else! it's hard to believe that. we all want to believe our attraction is genuine and unique...but unfortunately it's not always so. it's a really difficult pill to swallow. best of luck to you, you are still young, like me! (turning 25 in april) Is this your first situation as an OW? I've had my fair share...in fact, the 4 serious heartbreaks i have ever encountered included a love triangle...or other woman. It doesn't make me a bad person, just a person with something seriously missing or wrong in my self image to justify/seek out these relationships. Realize this and work on it. It might sound lame to some, but there are some interesting books on EA and etc at Barnes n Nobles. Pick one up...or just poke around here on loveshack. Interestingly enough, the majority of situations with OW/MM/MW WHATEVER are oddly and eerily very much the same...from beginning...middle...to the very end. In my effed up relationships, the girlfriend of the cheater was always a lame, wretched B**ch. But he chose that dysfunction. He chose that drama. And each one always went back to it..or eventually left me for someone else. The one who is doing the cheating isn't the victim, even if the W is a silly drunken loud obnoxious...well, you know ;o) You are probably everything she is not. You sound pretty smart and grounded. Otherwise you wouldn't have a concern and you wouldn't be posting on here about it! find yourself a dude that doesn't bring the drama from his past into your life. You are too smart for it! I've been reading another post where the OW kept justifying her situation as "grey" because "not everything in this world is black and white." Another poster had a very great response, stating that one only calls a situation "grey" when justifying their own actions. It is only grey because you want it to be...it makes the situation fair and right and makes sense. Ya know? Just food for thought. Sorry guys, my posts turn into novels. Believe it or not, this place helps me sort my thoughts. I'm going through some healing myself...thanks for reading PS - post on john! I enjoy reading the cheating man's perspective. It really offers some insight!! Edited March 7, 2008 by angelj forgot a few things..oops!
It_Hurts Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I'm not going to go into the long sorted affair. We all know the story. We work together, he's my boss, I'm 23 he's 46, blah, blah, blah. We started working together in April of 2007, the affair began in October 2007, he left her and we moved in together in December of 2007, it is now March 2008. On the top layers everything is great. We rarely get into disagreements, there's a great amount of affection, we laugh, sex life is great, and we honestly enjoy each other's company. (we'd have to, being that we work and live together we're literally together 24 hrs. a day usually) but even though we've lived together for 3 months still not a even a whisper of the "D" word. Which boggled me a little bit to begin with, then about a month ago at work I accidently saw an email from his wife. (I know what you're all saying, you don't "accidently" see an email, but it's true. It was at work, I needed to look something up on his computer and he didn't close the message. end of story.) The message wasn't overly suggestive, it was just the usual i guess. "I can't live with you. blah, blah, blah" it was only about 3 or 4 lines, but at the end it was confirming a time they were to meet. Long story short, he eventually comes out with "I don't know what I want." I didn't blow off the handle, it's not really my way. However, anyone else would have been out the door and never to be seen again. He on the other hand was married for 15 years to this broad (the lack of respect to her is well deserved) and he's been with me for under 6 months. I'm trying to be understanding that this is not a black and white matter no matter how i want it to be. It's a big change. But would he really go back? The best way to sum her up is "crude,sloppy,abusive drunk" she drinks constantly, verbally and physically abusive. If you're thinking the affair did this to her, she's been like this for the last 10-12 years. I've witnessed the train wreck first-hand a few months before the affair. It was very sad, and all's I can remember thinking is "wow...he deserves soo much better than that." The fact of the matter is, is that the marriage is basically over. She sings the story that everything will be fine if he would just come back home, she can forgive everything thats happened. Does he not see that nothing will change with her behavior?? On top of that if he does go back his leash will be so short he'll choke to death. I guess I'm just seeing if anyone else has gone through this, do they go back after seeing the light? You really have to give this man the freedom to do what ever he chooses. If he wants to go back, nothing you can say or do, will stop him. Why does he have to see that nothing will change with her behavior? He is an adult and it is his life, you do not run it, neither does his wife. IT IS HIS DECISION. Tell him he is free to choose what he wants from his life. Why would you even want to be with a man that maybe wants to be somewhere else? If he goes back to his wife, let him suffer and choke on his short lease, it is not your problem. Do not fight for your man, there is nothing worse in a man's eyes than a desperate, pleading woman. Show him you are strong, independant and do not NEED him in your life. If he wants to, really wants to, he will be with you and no-one else. Good luck, stay strong and give him the freedom to make his decision ON HIS OWN.
Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 John Who, count me in as one of those who appreciates your giving something other than the candy coated version of the truth.
nellstar Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I'll admit to that even if no one else will. Man, how I started to hate the wife of MM. Everything he told me about her took an evil twist in my mind. She got pregnant right before they got married. Oooo that conniving slut, she planned it that way! She didn't know how to cook, at least in the beginning, and now MM did all the cooking most of the time. Wow, what a lazy incompetent bum she was! Poor MM had to buy his own cake on his birthday because wifey was too caught up in work. That neglectful bitch! I even began to insist to him how did he know she wasn't running around on him like he was on her? MM didn't put down his W at all. Holycow... some MM are b**tards, aren't they? You actually hate her? I think MM's W is a nice lady and in some twisted ways, they are not happily married. Of course none of you would like to believe that.
nellstar Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 OE,yeah it is pathetic and annoying i had not realized that until i started reading all these post on here of these ow. Damn did i get a headache it was like reading the same story same lines. Why does this anger you?It it's my opinion and i am sticking to it,my mind will not be changed. If the truth hurts then change yourself. Does it piss you off that i am a man and i am saying these things,oh and i don't give a f-ck about my grammer i have better things to worry about besides that,anyway my point was made. I don't think OE is angry.... it's just so funny that this is all coming from you. I think you're angry because none of the women in your life want you anymore.... after seeing what you did to your xW then your OW and then back to your xW... and so on and so on........... Your mind will not be changed? Right.... . How is that possible when you wanted OW then you wanted your W back etc.....
OWoman Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 MM didn't put down his W at all. Mine neither. To this day, still not - despite everything. You actually hate her? I suppose some people are just insecure, and need to do that to feel better about themselves? I've felt angry at some of the things MM's W has done to the kids, but I pity her rather than hate her, and genuinely hope she gets the treatment she needs so that she can become well, and happy.
John Who Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 OW does want ot be with me I don't want her. I never loved her I fooled myself got caught up in the moment like i have said we MM lie so much to the ow we actually start to believe our own sh-t. Truthfully i think OW is fooling herself about how she feels about me,i think she wants me to be with anyone BUT my wife. Yeah i know i have problems right now,but like i have said it does not change my opinion this IS the truth,this IS how most MM see the OW. Like it or not.
John Who Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Oh ow your obsessed with your MM wife. Every other thread i read, i have noticed you always manage to pop in and mention how shes so abusive and the counselling,and you just go on and on about her. What i want to know what gives you the right to air her dirty laundry out and post after post how fu-ked up she is.
Jess-Belle Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 MM didn't put down his W at all. Holycow... some MM are b**tards, aren't they? You actually hate her? I think MM's W is a nice lady and in some twisted ways, they are not happily married. Of course none of you would like to believe that. LOL, I hated her back then, sure. She was married to the guy I wanted to "win". And to be honest, I think the fact that MM didn't slag her off to me (except a couple of times, in a very subtle manner) is an incredible rarity. More often than not, MM have a truckload of sob stories to tell about how their spouse doesn't appreciate them and treats them like complete shxt. It's hardly uncommon for OW to be bitter about the spouse in question. Just take a look around here at the threads started desperately seeking validation that the A is all the BS' fault. 'omg, maybe if the wife was more sexually adventurous, maybe if she kept in shape, maybe this, maybe that'. It's utterly pathetic. Even more pathetic are the ones who come out of the situation and rather than having learned an important lesson, they continue to mope about all lovestruck over this guy that treated them like crap and continuing to blame the evil spouse. You are right, MM's W was a nice woman, a true class act. And I victimized her with my delusions and selfish desires. I will forever be remorseful for that.
Nixson Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Yeah i know i have problems right now,but like i have said it does not change my opinion this IS the truth,this IS how most MM see the OW. I appreciate that you used 'most MM' because it is certainly most but not ALL. I am glad I was nothing of the sort of MM you portray.
MimiMe Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) I must agree with few things that John Who had to say though. Men will get away with it as far as us women allow them to! Second, women at times are too naive to believe half the sac of ish that these bastards have to say! IT's part of history, since the beginning of time... Men have been running the same lines (MY W is fat, boring, bitchy, evil, no sparks, no sex blah, blah,blah...) just for the OW to feel bad for them and offer the opposite and in return of attention. Psychologically OW has insecurity issues, whether is it physical or mental. Edited March 7, 2008 by MimiMe
John Who Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Obviously im not meaning all men in general like i said most MM,that is how MM see OW. If you are M have have never had a EA or PA on your wife then obviously this doesnt apply to you. Now just because i say this about ow does not mean i don't respect woman. I respect respectful women,now i know alot of you will say where was the respect for your wife. My answer to that is i was being a sh-t face selfesh bast-rd
MimiMe Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 John Who, count me in as one of those who appreciates your giving something other than the candy coated version of the truth. I second that! Books, Novels, Soap Operas, Movies, Reality Shows... ALL have either the "Happy Family" disrupted by an evil jealous homewrecker that maliciously got involved with a MM because she cant get a man of her own... or The naive, good girl that just falls in love with a MM who lied to her, then it is too late to turn back. There are also 2 different endings... DIVORCE.. he'll go with the OW and eventually YOU- OW becomes the W, and soon there will be another OW! or He stays with his W, and will find another OW. LOL! So typical!
MimiMe Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Mine neither. To this day, still not - despite everything. I suppose some people are just insecure, and need to do that to feel better about themselves? I've felt angry at some of the things MM's W has done to the kids, but I pity her rather than hate her, and genuinely hope she gets the treatment she needs so that she can become well, and happy. OWoman why would you hate someone that after all you took something away from her? and you are right... MM sweep the floor with their W's just because it makes them feel better about what they are doing. Gives them justification for their actions (so they think!).
MimiMe Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Obviously im not meaning all men in general like i said most MM,that is how MM see OW. If you are M have have never had a EA or PA on your wife then obviously this doesnt apply to you. Now just because i say this about ow does not mean i don't respect woman. I respect respectful women,now i know alot of you will say where was the respect for your wife. My answer to that is i was being a sh-t face selfesh bast-rd John Who. I've been married for 7yrs and have been with my SOON TO BE X-H for 15yrs in total. He cheated on me for the last 3 years... because he was basically getting away with it!!! Point blank! He is now in jail and has decided to entail a relationship with the OW... so to that I say... BETTER HER THAN ME!!! As painful as it has been, I have to see the light and say to myself- Is this the kind of marriage that I want to have? for that be alone!!! Freedom is a 2 way street and in my opinion he didnt exactly get FREEDOM for leaving me. I DID!!! I am very attractive, young and hip! It hurts like hell to have to raise my kids in a broken home because some psycho Biotch decided to interrupt my program... but that's life- you live and you learn!! Some of these OW have no respect for themselves and it all starts in their narrowed minds. They dont see the light! IF HE DID IT TO HIS WIFE THAT HAS SHARED ALL THE THINGS THAT LIFE HAS TO OFFER- WHAT IS IN STORE FOR YOU??!??!?!?!?! (at least this was my case).
OWoman Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 and you are right... MM sweep the floor with their W's just because it makes them feel better about what they are doing. Gives them justification for their actions (so they think!). I didn't say that so I'm not sure why you're saying I'm right to say that.
OWoman Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Obviously im not meaning all men in general like i said most MM,that is how MM see OW. If you are M have have never had a EA or PA on your wife then obviously this doesnt apply to you. Nixson was an MM who had an A. He was challenging your view of "how MM see OW" as he himself was one and didn't view OW the way you do. He left his W for his OW and is still happily with her. And loves and respects her. Something that you've illustrated SOME MM are incapable of.
OWoman Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 He is a neddle in a haystack I'm not sure what a neddle is, but my MM is the same. As are GEL's, Lyssa's, Nextel's...
John Who Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 OE of course i'm annoying you,you had your fair share of MM also.
OWoman Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 OE of course i'm annoying you,you had your fair share of MM also. and a good few neddles, I'll bet (whatever they are - I see you've still not explained, beyond that they live in haystacks)
nadiaj2727 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I'm not sure what a neddle is, but my MM is the same. As are GEL's, Lyssa's, Nextel's... I thought nixson is Lyssa's (former) MM (now BF)? Maybe I read something wrong somewhere along the way. I don't understand your hang-up on pointing out the spelling/ grammatical errors/ typos of posters whose opinions you don't like. In my opinion doing something like that all the time is pretty immature and petty. As (well-behaved) adults there are some things we just have to let slide out of politeness. I'm sure your posts aren't always perfectly written but I'm too busy reading the content of them to notice and I'm too mature to waste time pointing out mistakes -- I have better things to discuss. John Who is actually here to give us his opinion, and if you don't like it, that's fine, say something constructive and useful. But I don't think he (or anyone) deserves to be picked on for spelling errors. We don't even know the first language of a lot of posters on here, let alone their education level... how rude of you to pick on them for not spelling something correctly. That just shows you are trying to throw everything at him including the kitchen sink because you have something against his opinion. That is really, really telling to me.
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