OpenBook Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I've posed this question in several threads lately, and it hasn't been answered. I am really curious to know. If the W of a CH put more effort into their lovemaking - wearing lingerie, teasing her H, giving him BJ's, etc. - would it satisfy him enough to where he would stop the cheating? When I first came on LS, it struck me how the men who posted were all pretty much saying the same thing -- that what they REALLY want is their W back... the woman they married, not the staleness of what their M has become. They want HER, their W (not somebody else) to be more like the woman she was when they got married. They don't want to go outside the M, but felt they were forced to because their W was ignoring their needs. Now I'm not so sure. Is it all about "wanting some strange"?? That even if you were married to a supermodel, you would get tired of it after awhile, and you just need somebody different to "feel alive again"? Nearly all of the MM posting here claim that they still really love their W's and do not want to leave the M. If this is so, do they believe that it's POSSIBLE for the same woman to satisfy their sexual needs throughout their lifetime? And if she just put a little more effort into it, he'd be happy? Or are we all doomed to suffer the male biological urge to spread their seed to as many women as possible? Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Nothing will make cheaters happy and that goes for both genders The cheater's mentality will never allow them to be happy no matter how sexy she is in the bedroom and no matter how loving and supportive he is. It is is an exercise in futility to try to please a cheater in order to get them not to cheat. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I agree with Woggle. Its an excuse cheaters use to put the blame/responsibility on someone else. They often fool themselves too. If there is a problem in the bedroom, then the couple needs to solve it together - not cheat. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Now I'm not so sure. Is it all about "wanting some strange"?? That even if you were married to a supermodel, you would get tired of it after awhile, and you just need somebody different to "feel alive again"? Yes, it is, I am afraid. I have come to that sad but true conclusion myself. Or are we all doomed to suffer the male biological urge to spread their seed to as many women as possible? Again affirmative. Yes, we are doomed to suffer it. I tried everything when my marriage was falling apart. Sexy lingerie, seduction, willing to experiment in bed...everything..and I was a young and very pretty ...Nothing worked...nada..zilch... he wouldn't budge from that damn sofa! Yeah, it's the novelty of the thing that is so enticing! Definitely! Until that wears off too ...and, then.....NEXT, please! Cynical, yeah! But that is the reality of things on Earth. Link to post Share on other sites
Sierra Sunrise Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I just do not believe it's that cut and dry. A cheater has something missing from them. It's not necessarily that they want some "strange". Sometimes it stems from insecurity, sometimes a ego trip, sometimes the breakdown of the marriage ie staleness, and the list could go on. It's not fair to just lump it as that they do it and nothing will make them stop. I stopped. I was a habitual cheater. I had to go to counseling and get my life straight. Thankfully my husband forgave me and we went to counselling together and got back on track. Some of the stuff that I said in counseling was hard for me to say in front of him but worth it because he got the full picture of why I did what I did. I think that men and women alike cheat for so many different reasons and then yes of course you have those that will just cheat always. I'm not so sure why that happens. Nothing fulfills them and nothing will. It's something missing from themselves. To lump everything in one category is a grave injustice. It's not real helpful either in my honest opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Now I'm not so sure. Is it all about "wanting some strange"?? That even if you were married to a supermodel, you would get tired of it after awhile, and you just need somebody different to "feel alive again"? IMO, yes, it is all about chasing strange. There are certain types of people out there who are simply unable to remain faithful. But I don't believe that all men are cheaters. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I do agree that people cheat for various reasons but no matter what those reasons are if the cheater doesn't take the steps to change their mentality and work on their issues there is nothing the BS can do to prevent the cheating. There are many people who are simply unpleasable and it is a waste of energy and time to try to entice them not to be unfaithful. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 I do agree that people cheat for various reasons but no matter what those reasons are if the cheater doesn't take the steps to change their mentality and work on their issues there is nothing the BS can do to prevent the cheating. There are many people who are simply unpleasable and it is a waste of energy and time to try to entice them not to be unfaithful. Agreed. But what about the cheaters who DO want to work on their issues? Is it even possible that they CAN be satisfied with their W, the woman they have known intimately for years? I just do not believe it's that cut and dry. A cheater has something missing from them. It's not necessarily that they want some "strange". Sometimes it stems from insecurity, sometimes a ego trip, sometimes the breakdown of the marriage ie staleness, and the list could go on. It's not fair to just lump it as that they do it and nothing will make them stop. I stopped. I was a habitual cheater. I had to go to counseling and get my life straight. Thankfully my husband forgave me and we went to counselling together and got back on track. Some of the stuff that I said in counseling was hard for me to say in front of him but worth it because he got the full picture of why I did what I did. I think that men and women alike cheat for so many different reasons and then yes of course you have those that will just cheat always. I'm not so sure why that happens. Nothing fulfills them and nothing will. It's something missing from themselves. To lump everything in one category is a grave injustice. It's not real helpful either in my honest opinion. Sierra, I hope you will continue to post here on LS and share more of your experience. Someone who has actually walked that mile -- and resolved it in their own M -- would have extremely valuable insights into this issue. Thanks for posting here in my thread! In particular, I hope you will explain what you mean by "something missing" within the cheater. We all have something missing inside of us... otherwise we would just stagnate in our lives and fail to evolve. What makes the difference between Joe the faithful H and Randy the cheater, both of whom have holes inside them? Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 Yes, it is, I am afraid. I have come to that sad but true conclusion myself. Again affirmative. Yes, we are doomed to suffer it. I tried everything when my marriage was falling apart. Sexy lingerie, seduction, willing to experiment in bed...everything..and I was a young and very pretty ...Nothing worked...nada..zilch... he wouldn't budge from that damn sofa! Yeah, it's the novelty of the thing that is so enticing! Definitely! Until that wears off too ...and, then.....NEXT, please! Cynical, yeah! But that is the reality of things on Earth. I hear ya, Marlena -- I'm right there with ya! But hoping against hope that maybe I'm wrong... Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I hear ya, Marlena -- I'm right there with ya! But hoping against hope that maybe I'm wrong... I wouldn't hold my breath on that one;) Still, doesn't hurt to hope:) Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 If a cheater does want to work on their issue they need to realize it not their wife's fault or their husband's fault and that what they did was wrong. They need to take accountability for their actions if they truly want to change their mentality. A relationship can survive this if the betrayed spouses is patient enough but I am not that patient. Link to post Share on other sites
Frances Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) I When I first came on LS, it struck me how the men who posted were all pretty much saying the same thing -- that what they REALLY want is their W back... the woman they married, not the staleness of what their M has become. They want HER, their W (not somebody else) to be more like the woman she was when they got married. They don't want to go outside the M, but felt they were forced to because their W was ignoring their needs. Do we all not want back the person we married? Well we can not have that as people change and that can be for good or bad. Should adults not consider this and go with the changes. It would be a boring life if we do not grow in ourselves. The vows we make on marriage are for better for worse in sickness and in health, forsaking all others for all the days of our life the problem is we do not like the downside of this if and when it happens. I do think that couples get bogged down in the day to day problems of just making a living and looking after kids and forget what is really important. I think the lack of communication is the big problem. We do not tell each other what are our real needs are. For one partner, its a need for the sex to have more variety and to be more often and for the other its help in keeping the daily chores under control. If we accepted each other a bit more warts and all. IMO two reasonable adult people should be able to make the marriage work for life if they married for the right reasons in the first place. Note I am saying two reasonable adult people Edited January 6, 2008 by Frances Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 People do grow but if a person changes the basic core of what makes them tick there will be problems. Some women and a certain number of men are obsessed with reinventing themselves and finding the new them to the point that they don't even know who the hell they are. There is no essence to them and nothing deeper than the surface that seams to change every few years. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Frances, Yes, I agree to an extent. But even reasonable adults can change and grow apart and what was just isn't anymore. Like you said, one needs to go with the flow. We need to become more adaptable to change for whether we like it or not, life means change. Life is not static. It moves. It changes. Perhaps society should prepare us better for these changes instead of promoting unrealistic marriage vows. Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 This is a hard one.. but I am convinced that in MANY cases, the H would NOT cheat if his W would do all what you described.. (more sex, lingerie, teasing, BJs, etc). It only depends on the reason the H is cheating.. If he really loves his W then more sex would definitely make him stay at home. If the sex is not the reason, then I'm afraid he will cheat no matter what... it could be for a change, for even more sex, or tons of other reasons. But in general, men would be satisfied at home, with more kinky dirty sex... Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I got cheated on not too long ago and trust me when I tell you it wasn't for lack of sex or passion. We had crazy sex whenever we could - it was always good, never boring. So why did he have a ONS? Because a stranger came on to him hardcore and that was always one of his fantasies. Had nothing to do with me, or our sex life, or anything of the sort. It was all him. Having been a long time cheat myself I understood that it is possible to be with someone and love them and still find yourself looking for something else for whatever reason. Didn't hurt any less, but having done the same myself I had some insight, so to speak. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 IMO two reasonable adult people should be able to make the marriage work for life if they married for the right reasons in the first place. Note I am saying two reasonable adult people Trouble is, when people marry nobody tests whether they're reasonable or not, merely that they're legally old enough to sign on the dotted line. In my country (I'm not sure about elsewhere) you can literally walk into a magistrate's office off the street, and provided you can find two witnesses, ten minutes later you can be married. It costs nothing, it requires nothing, just saying "yes I'm of sound mind and I agree to marry this person" in front of a magistrate. If it wasn't so easy to marry, perhaps people might take it more seriously and not rush into it at the first flurry of hormones and then wonder when things went wonky. OB, on your original question, I'm not sure how effective it would be in STOPPING "cheating", but I certainly think it could be effective in PREVENTING it in the first place. If partners see each other making an effort to please them intimately, out of desire for their partner, they're likely to respond positively. Once the "cheating's" started though, it's a rearguard action that smacks of desperation rather than desire, and is less likely to be effective, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 But in general, men would be satisfied at home, with more kinky dirty sex... Yes, but even "kinky, dirty sex" gets boring with the same person after so many years. So they look for "kinky, dirty sex" with someone new! That simple! It's all about the thrill! Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Yes, but even "kinky, dirty sex" gets boring with the same person after so many years. So they look for "kinky, dirty sex" with someone new! That simple! It's all about the thrill! Yes I suppose you're right.. it would get boring after so many years... Link to post Share on other sites
Frances Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Trouble is, when people marry nobody tests whether they're reasonable or not, merely that they're legally old enough to sign on the dotted line. In my country (I'm not sure about elsewhere) you can literally walk into a magistrate's office off the street, and provided you can find two witnesses, ten minutes later you can be married. It costs nothing, it requires nothing, just saying "yes I'm of sound mind and I agree to marry this person" in front of a magistrate. If it wasn't so easy to marry, perhaps people might take it more seriously and not rush into it at the first flurry of hormones and then wonder when things went wonky. It might be a good idea if people had to prove they are of sound mind. Also instead of bringing down the age for marriage it should be moved upwards. It is to easy to get married in nearly all countries. In my country you have to give 3 months notice of intent to marry, its not that long but at least it gives a bit of time to think about it. In some of the churches you also have to give 3 months notice and attend pre marriage courses. Our divorce laws are fairly strict as well, no such thing as a quickie divorce. I still think Resonable adults that marry for the right reasons have a much higher chance of succeeding in marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 I still think Resonable adults that marry for the right reasons have a much higher chance of succeeding in marriage. Okay, can we take it a step further?... What do you consider to be "the right reasons" for getting married? Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Okay, can we take it a step further?... What do you consider to be "the right reasons" for getting married? First of all, if the main draw of the marriage is mere sex then after awhile it likely will get "old" and "stale" with the same person no matter how good and physically satisfying. If the marriage took place for the right reasons, those being summed up in two complete people coming together and enhancing one another, as opposed to two halves trying to make a whole, then they are more likely to make love than merely have sex and the chances of either cheating are slight. Link to post Share on other sites
Sierra Sunrise Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 The missing links are different with every human being's needs and personalities. For me personally I was just very promiscuous. I had a bad childhood. Yup. Another cliche I'm afraid. Another statistic. Also I just had a lot of intimacy issues and ones that I didn't think I had. I had to work long and hard and even though it wasn't pretty at times and at times I didn't wanna go on, I pushed harder and further and now today I'm glad that I did because I'm a pretty well rounded and well adjusted individual. I'm not perfect by any means. Loads of people have different needs and sometimes in marriages we do become complacent and we do become stagnated. Kids come in and that adds to the pressures though I would not trade my children for anything in the world. There has to be some guidelines laid down I think before marriage and I also think pre marriage counseling would do marriages a world of good. I mean how much can you know about the person you're intending to marry before hand? I mean you know their good points and maybe you do know some of their bad points but you really need that counseling to see the root and the heart of the person. We were offered that and we both snickered and declined. We thought we had it all figured out, boy were we wrong. I had points in my marriage where my husband was my roommate and best friend instead of my husband. Sure you're suppose to be best friends and etc but I didn't love him. I wasn't attracted to him and I thought of him as a brother type. When he touched me I'd cringe and then I'd just want plain straight sex with him and I wanted him to do it in a hurry. Yes I was selfish and yes I was in the wrong. I got all my desire, passion and love for him back through the counseling. I just think as someone else mentioned it's way too easy to get married today. They make it tough as nails to get divorces, but why can't they do that for marriages? They should in my opinion. As for some cheaters always cheating, yup there is nothing you can do about that some people need that zest and selfishness in their lives and they get a real thrill off of leading a double life and it's enticing to them and exciting until the OW's newness wears off and then they dump that one and onto the next. Not all habitual cheaters are that way though. For some, myself included, it goes much deeper and needs a lot of the work effort and counseling like I said. Also in closing you don't have to put up with anything and you're never doomed at all. You make your life choices and you make your decisions. So if you feel you're being wronged or anything then it's time to sit and weigh all the aspects and decide what kind of experience or life you want. Never let someone else have control of that. Ever. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I know that lack of sex of any and all descriptions had nothing to do with the problems we had. Our problems had to do with a number of things. Children caused many of them (his and mine). Birth family caused some of them (his and mine). Too much focus on things other than each other, though, caused most - and of course the fact that neither of us were very good at communicating our desires - at least not in a manner that the other could take in. When a person (or even both people) are unhappy for any reason it is far easier to place the blame for the unhappiness on one's partner than it is to look inside and put the focus where it belongs. Once you focus on your partner as the "cause" then (all of us being quite imperfect) finding the specific reason becomes ever easier. The more faults you find with your partner the more you pull away. The more you pull away, the less satisfied your partner is. The less satisfied your partner is the less either of you want to have sex - at least with each other. It becomes pretty easy to say you aren't getting enough or the right kind of sex and have that as the excuse for cheating. Doesn't make it the root cause, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Nearly all of the MM posting here claim that they still really love their W's and do not want to leave the M. If this is so, do they believe that it's POSSIBLE for the same woman to satisfy their sexual needs throughout their lifetime? And if she just put a little more effort into it, he'd be happy? I think there's as many reasons as there are cheaters. But there is a subset of guys that post here that are in an untenable position: - They have childern they won't be parted from - They have a wife uninterested in sex and unwilling to address the issue - They have a home and assets they've worked their whole life to accumulate Of those in that group that cheat, extra effort at home would have kept them in line... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
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