Boyfriend and "friend" are crossing the line

[LoveLace]

So obviously when he's not with you, and he isn't thinking about you then, he's obviously thinking about someone else. That's a lame defense.

[blue.butterfly]

In all honesty, he has been trying anything in his power NOT to argue. Yes, I've had many very intuitive bad feelings, and he says I'm making something out of nothing. Sometimes, these feelings come out of nowhere, and I don't know why. He used to be very argumentative, and that has changed. He is distant. He doesn't really talk to me about anything deep at all. He says he has no need to. One exception is the night he got drunk, and told me how much he cares about his friend. I should point out that during that night, he did NOT go on to tell me how much he cares about me.

[blue.butterfly]

So obviously when he's not with you, and he isn't thinking about you then, he's obviously thinking about someone else. That's a lame defense.

 

Oh, he said yesterday that even when he's talking to her, he is thinking about me. He has also made it point to tell me they DO NOT talk about me. At all. Good or bad. She doesn't bring me up. He doesn't bring me up.

[squeak]

In all honesty, he has been trying anything in his power NOT to argue. Yes, I've had many very intuitive bad feelings, and he says I'm making something out of nothing. Sometimes, these feelings come out of nowhere, and I don't know why. He used to be very argumentative, and that has changed. He is distant. He doesn't really talk to me about anything deep at all. He says he has no need to. One exception is the night he got drunk, and told me how much he cares about his friend. I should point out that during that night, he did NOT go on to tell me how much he cares about me.

 

BB I am putting myself in your shoes and this is what I see that stands out:

-he compared her reactions to yours ("she doesn't get all emotional-never cryed once")

-she mysteriously resurfaced in his life the 3rd year into your relationship, after 2 years of no contact.

-on more than one occasion he has admitted to having caring feelings for her when drunk, which is when all the sub surface feelings come out.

-he calls her when you are not around on a continous basis

-he hid their contact from you-deliberately misleading you so as to preserve his relationship with her

-"friend": someone who adds to one's life, and does not try to destroy another's existing relationship for ulterior motives

-"boyfriend" someone who has your back and shows empathy and loyalty when his back is pushed to the wall.

 

Instead-when she said "we want to stay here to annoy her more" yet refuses to make your relationship priority by keeping his friendship with a girl who disrespected you, and lies to you initially about continous contact with her.

 

Maybe for yourself you do need to tell this girl to eff off, then if your BF keeps it up with her, walk away. I don't like what I am hearing, on so many levels i would be very suspicious too.

[blue.butterfly]

he compared her reactions to yours ("she doesn't get all emotional-never cryed once")

 

I thought this was very insensitive and strange

 

on more than one occasion he has admitted to having caring feelings for her when drunk, which is when all the sub surface feelings come out.

 

This only happened once, quite recently. Once is enough. He even told me he loved her.

 

he hid there contact from you-deliberately misleading you so as to preserve his relationship with her

 

Yes, but when I first noticed he then stated he was not trying to hide it from me. Now he admits that he was, but everything should be OK because he lets me know when they talk.

 

"friend": someone who adds to one's life, and does not try to destroy another's existing relationship for ulterior motives

 

In fact, I asked him last night what he gains from this friendship. He said he doesn't gain anything from any friendships. I stated we all do, that's why we have friends. He said he didn't understand what I was talking about. I brought up the give and take aspects of friendships. He stated he still didn't understand what I meant. Isn't this a basic concept? Also, he will NOT believe she has ulterior motives.

 

"boyfriend" someone who has your back and shows empathy and loyalty when his back is pushed to the wall.

 

In all reality, he's rarely had my back. I believe empathy is lost to him unless it is his friend or his mom, and loyalty.... Well... I believe he is physically loyal. Emotionally, absolutely not.

 

His excuse for talking to her is that they don't talk everyday. It might be once every two weeks, sometimes more often. That is his justification.

 

When I asked if we could go over the phone records together, to put me at ease, he said "absolutely not." He doesn't want a relationship that has to go to that level.

 

He also states that he understands WHY I am suspicious, but I shouldn't be because there's nothing going on. I have a hard time buying that, due to the facts you presented in your post.

 

I don't know about telling her off. I don't want to come across as the controlling bitch, but perhaps this situation warrants it. Like someone said before, I don't owe these two anything. I am the one being disrespected here.

[squeak]

I thought this was very insensitive and strange

 

 

 

This only happened once, quite recently. Once is enough. He even told me he loved her.

 

 

 

Yes, but when I first noticed he then stated he was not trying to hide it from me. Now he admits that he was, but everything should be OK because he lets me know when they talk.

 

 

 

In fact, I asked him last night what he gains from this friendship. He said he doesn't gain anything from any friendships. I stated we all do, that's why we have friends. He said he didn't understand what I was talking about. I brought up the give and take aspects of friendships. He stated he still didn't understand what I meant. Isn't this a basic concept? Also, he will NOT believe she has ulterior motives.

 

 

 

In all reality, he's rarely had my back. I believe empathy is lost to him unless it is his friend or his mom, and loyalty.... Well... I believe he is physically loyal. Emotionally, absolutely not.

 

His excuse for talking to her is that they don't talk everyday. It might be once every two weeks, sometimes more often. That is his justification.

 

When I asked if we could go over the phone records together, to put me at ease, he said "absolutely not." He doesn't want a relationship that has to go to that level.

 

He also states that he understands WHY I am suspicious, but I shouldn't be because there's nothing going on. I have a hard time buying that, due to the facts you presented in your post.

 

I don't know about telling her off. I don't want to come across as the controlling bitch, but perhaps this situation warrants it. Like someone said before, I don't owe these two anything. I am the one being disrespected here.

 

I don't know if telling her off is so wise, the purpose would be to draw a very clear boundary on the spot, and use it to see if he still continues with her afterwards. Like he did with your friend with the frequent texts. And you probably didn't contact that friend after your BF told him off, right?

 

Overall, I would say your BF is counting on you complaining and complaining and being freaked out, hoping it will blow over.

 

All I can say is you are justified in your feelings and doubts.

 

Also-it seems you have went over every angle with him, to no avail.

 

How do you feel about what I suggested?

 

The comment about "if you continue doing x,y,z i will draw my own conclusions through your actions, not your words, and maybe we are not right for eachother if you can't figure out some solutions with me" or something to that measure.

 

Also-this has now went beyond dropping her as a friend, I would need to be proven beyond a doubt that he wasn't heading towards some involvement with her. Do you want to continue with him? Think about this long and hard, because it will be like getting over an affair. And that is assuming he would actually do anything different after your speech.

 

What are you going to do?

[blue.butterfly]

And you probably didn't contact that friend after your BF told him off, right?

 

No, I never did after that. I respected his feelings.

 

Overall, I would say your BF is counting on you complaining and complaining and being freaked out, hoping it will blow over.

 

This is exactly right. He's counting on it making me look like a jerk and he is the victim.

 

"if you continue doing x,y,z i will draw my own conclusions through your actions, not your words, and maybe we are not right for each other if you can't figure out some solutions with me" or something to that measure.

 

I have said this. He says I'm being ridiculous. I told him actions speak louder than words. When I ask him what a good compromise would be, he says he doesn't know.

 

Also-this has now went beyond dropping her as a friend, I would need to be proven beyond a doubt that he wasn't heading towards some involvement with her. Do you want to continue with him? Think about this long and hard, because it will be like getting over an affair. And that is assuming he would actually do anything different after your speech.

 

I do think I would be strong enough to get over it if he drew a clear line on where his loyalty stands. However, he has made it quite clear that he will hold resentment if I "make him choose" although he has done it in the past as well.

 

What are you going to do?

 

This question is the bottom line. Even though it is not fair, I have to make a decision here. I cannot say I am absolutely sure yet, but I am thinking very hard about it. I want to give myself a few days to come to a final conclusion. At this point I hold so much resentment, I can barely take it.

[spooty]

he compares your reactions to hers and he said he loves her while he was drunk? that would have meant a full blown fight for me!

 

comparing you to her is showing that he prefers her reaction, or he thinks hers are "right". maybe that's how he wants a woman to react because his mom does that, or because his first gf did or some historical reason. but jeez, i would have blown up "can't you see that i'm upset right now and you're just thinking about her??"

 

your bf does the old "if i act like stupid then i won't have to do it" ploy, they try it with dishes, and laundry and emotions! they refuse to understand because then it makes them responsible! he really did cop out with the "it wouldn't matter if i change", he's labeling you this way and in his mind you can be no different.

 

i would evaluate your relationship after this lunch thing (i would go out of curiosity) and the next time he says some lame insensitive things tell him "you don't care about me, i'm not saying this to be dramatic, you don't treat me like someone you care about"

when you care for someone you stop doing things that you KNOW hurts them! you make yourself a better person, and you try to make them a better person, and most of all, when they try to explain something you try your hardest to UNDERSTAND, that's what it means to CARE!

maybe he likes her company because she has more masculine emotions and it's easier for him.

tell him that the friendship is hurting your relationship, whether he's doing it intentionally or not (or "obliviously") and he should end it or reduce it or drastically change it in order to heal your relationship. it's hurting you two, plain and simple, you need to convince him that it is, then convince him of why and how. compare yourself before and after her, get him to remember better times and to want them back!

although, as we read more about him, he's the type that you cannot convince of anything, he always thinks he's right. these types are so hard to argue or talk with because if they have convinced themselves of something then they won't even hear you!

my bf was like that, and it took me a very long time to explain to him how i feel. the way i did it was saying "i don't want to end up like our moms" (which are both sad/depressed/unloved) and that lit something in him and he could then understand the pain he was causing me. if you could get to your bf like that then you might get somewhere. of course, he could just as easily say "you don't know ___ and you don't know what your talking about!"

[squeak]

Unfortunately this *friendship* (I'm really starting to hate that word in the context of relationships after all I've read on here) has also shown a fundamental divide between the both of you.

 

It's not just about her, the underlying issue is:

-invalidating your feelings, why can he be empathetic to others but not you? If he loves you, which i'm sure he says he does, you have been together 4 YEARS!! So if he does not know what your boundaries are and is not willing to respect them.... it points to a problem that has probably come up in a million other ways too, right?

 

-2 questions-how exactly was his contact with her revelaed the past year? did you find out accidentally, then he came out? Or did he volunteer it to you recently?

 

-What does he say when you ask him what the boundaries are with opposite sex friends? If he does not cut it off after a disrespect or when romantic interest is shown-then it is really up to you how to proceed. Does he not think she was seriously out of line that first meeting?

 

It seems he has pretty clear boundaries concerning YOUR friends, so he wouldn't take this from you.

 

You can keep trying to convince him, or you can start to distance yourself, to spare yourself further pain. See if he comes towards you, or lets the distance widen.

 

Please let us know what happens. I'm rooting for you.

[blue.butterfly]

your bf does the old "if i act like stupid then i won't have to do it" ploy, they try it with dishes, and laundry and emotions! they refuse to understand because then it makes them responsible! he really did cop out with the "it wouldn't matter if i change", he's labeling you this way and in his mind you can be no different.

 

Are you sure you don't know him??? This is SO true!

 

although, as we read more about him, he's the type that you cannot convince of anything, he always thinks he's right. these types are so hard to argue or talk with because if they have convinced themselves of something then they won't even hear you!

 

He says that I act as if I am always right, and I am not being considerate of his feelings in this situation! I do not know I am always right, but there are times when I do know!

 

I am curious about the lunch thing, too. I really am. I have to admit I want to see if they squirm.

 

comparing you to her is showing that he prefers her reaction, or he thinks hers are "right". maybe that's how he wants a woman to react because he mom does that, or because his first gf did or some historical reason. but jeez, i would have blown up "can't you see that i'm upset right now and you're just thinking about her??"

 

This conversation happened when I was really upset and trying to talk to him about something. He turned on the TV and spaced out in the middle of me talking. I asked him how any woman would feel if he did this to them. I brought up Amanda because that is his only female friend. That is when he said "Well, out of all the times I talked to her, I've never heard her cry." So to be fair, I brought it up, but I do not think that minimizes it.

 

He thinks I am just an irrational, oversensitive woman. Fact is, if I got what I needed from him, I wouldn't be so upset. I've told him I'm not happy and he said "Well that's your fault, not mine."

 

Sensitive guy, huh?

[blue.butterfly]

invalidating your feelings, why can he be empathetic to others but not you? If he loves you, which i'm sure he says he does, you have been together 4 YEARS!! So if he does not know what your boundaries are and is not willing to respect them.... it points to a problem that has probably come up in a million other ways too, right?

 

In fact, I just had a very heated conversation with him. He says he tries everything he can to respect me in this relationship. He just doesn't get it. I don't think he wants to. I told him he should be there for ME. He says he doesn't understand. I don't think he's capable. (At least with me.)

 

It seems he has pretty clear boundaries concerning YOUR friends, so he wouldn't take this from you.

 

He finally admitted he wouldn't like this is the show were on the other foot, but then he said I forced him to say that. He won't come clean, ever.

 

You can keep trying to convince him, or you can start to distance yourself, to spare yourself further pain. See if he comes towards you, or lets the distance widen.

 

This is what I'm going to do. He's blaming the whole thing on me saying I'm just making up excuses to drive him away. He will admit no participation in this. It's breaking my heart, but I know I deserve to be happy.

 

I'm gonna take a break. I need to calm down. I'll be back later. Thank you all for your support through this!