LittleLady Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 "And, of course, I would like to see any stats you may care to offer that demonstrate that non-married couples who live together somehow have a higher "togetherness" rate than do married couples from the same demographics. I've looked for such evidence, but have yet to find it. " I believe the argument was about happiness and not "togetherness". A little dense there, are we? Just because one remains married due to obligation does not mean one is happy (which btw was what my original postings were about). No point really. I know this might sound cliche, but it's just a piece of paper. It's not magic. The only thing it does is make it harder and costlier to get out of a rotten marriage. "Stability" does not equate happiness. Staying together as well does not equate happiness. You arrogantly and lazily digressed from the expressed issues in this thread. Marriage, as is any long-term cohabitation, is tough work. Show me one happy marriage and I'll show you about 10 unhappy ones. It's the sad reality of life. A few of my male coworkers cheat on their unexpecting wives. It's a pity, but people dig a hole to hide and avoid these situations. People get married cause it's expected of them. They are basically forced by family or their lover who gave them an ultimatum stemming from alterior beliefs. Relying on the legal system to keep a relationship emotionally attached is plain wacky. But thanks again for posting stats absolutely unrelating to my argument. Your off-track mind is suggesting that reality is you are unhappy.. no other reason to be so bitter and argumentative over this if it was not true.
Woggle Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 If LittleLady doesn't want to marry I fully support that decision and I even somewhat agree with her that most marriages these days are not happy but marriage itself is not the problem. It is the people in the marriage that determine whether it is a happy or miserable marriage. Marriage in and of itself is pretty much a blank page and it is up to the people in the marriage on whether they want to fill that page with good or bad. A happy marriage is ver much possibe but you need two people willing to make it happy.
LittleLady Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 Some peoples definitions of happiness deviate from others: "DazedandConfused66 Established Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 60 I know enough people who have been thru affairs to say this with conviction. Yes, a marriage can survive and even prosper after an affair. But it has nothing to do with the affair itself...that's just the catalyst. It has everything to do with the individuals involved and how they respond to the situation. " You sound like you have experience in the matter and that is nothing that I personally could live with. I don't think I would label such marriage as a "success" either. A relationship working depends on the PEOPLE involved and how serious they are about their relationship; not dependent on a piece of paper. Those that ARE married are likely to take their obligations more seriously to make THAT step. Plus there are likely children involved whom are always the primary reason for keeping a slum marriage. Stability meaning an unsevered marriage. If THAT is their definition of stability, I've got to laugh bud. Anyways, I'm happy that you have been married for such a long time and I would take great pride in the fact that most marriages don't add up to what YOU have because of the hard work YOU put into it. As for name-calling etc, please refrain from the nastiness. I'm merely providing a variation of opinion to ponder. I did not mean to attack you or threaten you, but I did not like the way you chose to speak to people. Why don't you cheer up a little and have a night with the wife.
LittleLady Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 If LittleLady doesn't want to marry I fully support that decision and I even somewhat agree with her that most marriages these days are not happy but marriage itself is not the problem. It is the people in the marriage that determine whether it is a happy or miserable marriage. Marriage in and of itself is pretty much a blank page and it is up to the people in the marriage on whether they want to fill that page with good or bad. A happy marriage is ver much possibe but you need two people willing to make it happy. Woggle, I'm truly happy for you!! I've read some of your previous postings about your past and you truly deserve what you have right now. You are wise enough to know that when you do find that something special, you don't let it go. You decided to open up your heart again which was brave and it landed you somewhere genuine and beautiful. Marriage agrees with you.. now if the majority of men and women had the same level of aptitude to manage and flourish.. And I've been in therapy myself for a few months and I actually feel I'm getting somewhere for once. My first marriage messed me up terribly and I'm just able to admit that because I am now out of it and pride is not a factor. Could I EVER trust a man again? I'm not sure, but I never saw a need for marriage for myself in the first place. I married for all the wrong reasons. It's just not something I see as necessary and in this day and age, I don't think it will be that hard to find someone who feels the same way. I don't see why some people here actually try to push people into thinking they SHOULD get married when it is not something they want? It ends up being counter-productive. And it truly sounds like they are unhappy and trying to deny that fact by parading this facade and persuading others to join their death cult (I went MIA).
Woggle Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 The thing is that most marriages would not suit me. No way I could put up with a nagging woman that tried to change everything about me and tried to control me. How I was lucky enough to find a woman not like that is one of life's great mysteries.
DazedandConfused66 Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 I believe the argument was about happiness and not "togetherness". A little dense there, are we? Just because one remains married due to obligation does not mean one is happy (which btw was what my original postings were about). ....snipped hostile drivel.... But thanks again for posting stats absolutely unrelating to my argument. Your off-track mind is suggesting that reality is you are unhappy.. no other reason to be so bitter and argumentative over this if it was not true. Please quote my name calling....I think you'll go back thru this thread and all you'll see is that you threw the first stone. Likely something you can't help because I struck a nerve with you somewhere and your natural tendancy is to attempt to attack. Not suprising given your outlook on life. There is only one reality here. You are an angry, hostile person. How you could read any insults into my opinion is beyond comprehension. You appear to be suffering from severe angst over the failure of your own marriage and terrible choices in spouses. You may have escaped with your life but you have completely lost your compassion and ability to communicate in the process. I pity you...your posts are angry, hate filled and completely closed-minded. Good luck in counseling.
reboot Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 As for name-calling etc, please refrain from the nastiness.A lot of nerve you have there, you're the one calling people names all over the place. Your views are your views, and you have a right to them, but just because someone else doesn't share your views doesn't give you the right to call them names.
Kasan Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 I don't see why some people here actually try to push people into thinking they SHOULD get married when it is not something they want? It ends up being counter-productive. And it truly sounds like they are unhappy and trying to deny that fact by parading this facade and persuading others to join their death cult (I went MIA). LL--I don't see anyone trying to push people into thinking they should get married when it is not something they want. Not sure if I have ever seen it here on this forum. The name of the thread is "Why Even Get Married"--people have responded with their POV based on their experiences. Some of us have found marriage to be a happy partnership. We have given our reasons why we get married. I haven't seen anyone of these posters appear to be unhappy. Others have given their reasons why they don't believe in marriage. They are happy in their decision. So, I am wondering how and why all the mud slinging started. You have come out of a very unhappy marriage which I am sure colors your thoughts on why not to get married. I am truly sorry that you had to go through all that pain. I am very happy for you that you recognize the fact that counseling will help you rebuild what you lost of yourself in the marriage. I respect your opinion based on your experience--please respect our opinions, or at the very least refrain from the mud slinging. You are an intelligent woman--I am sure that you can get your POV across without using this tactic. As noted last night--I did remind you that you were dangerously closed to being what you called someone else. Please know that we are all doing the best that we can, sometimes under very difficult circumstances.
DazedandConfused66 Posted October 17, 2007 Posted October 17, 2007 WRT Cheaters: You sound like you have experience in the matter and that is nothing that I personally could live with. I don't think I would label such marriage as a "success" either. LOL.....you aren't keeping track of your stories very well LL, or Bella, or whomever you really are. Nice one though...I actually thought you had a legitimate opinion for a few posts or so. You really should consider a career in acting.
Unluckilymadlyinlove Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I feel sorry for you that you have never loved someone enough to want to marry them (for the right reasons). I hope that one day you do find love that will make you understand. I did not come on here because I am unhappy with my marriage. I love my husband and he is absolutely my best friend. We married for several reasons. I couldn't imagine myself with anyone else. I wanted to fully commit to this man and he wanted to fully commit to me. I don't think marriage is an easy thing. It is something you have to work hard at and it is that hard work that makes it all worth while. WHen you are married you have now created a legal bind that makes it just that much more work to go your seperate ways. During rough times, its just one more thing to make you rethink your decision to walk away. It is also a tax break and I am a stay home mom. If we were not married and he decided to leave me, I would be stuck jobless and on my own. As it is, we are a team, a family, that works together and is commited to eachother. I came on here because I had an issue in my relationship. It wasn't a matter of whether or not I wanted to be with him, it was to get an objective opinion about my situation. There are no classes that we take in school to learn the correct way to "be," whether it is a friendship, marriage, with family members, co-workers, etc. There are no guides you can read on how to have the perfect marriage. You are kind of just thrown into it and sometimes it is hard to figure out the right answer. The people on this forum have been very helpful to me in understanding my situation better and helped me to realize that the problem is in fact partly me.....something that is much easier to accept from strangers than from your spouse. Anyways, my point is, you are generalizing that just because many of us have complaints and are seeking advice that we are unhappy. That is definately NOT the case for me and I am sure many others. How could you possibly appreciate the good if there were never any hard or bad aspects in your relationship? With every rough patch my husband and I have come across we have gotten through it and have become much closer. We are still learning eachother everyday and working together to make a life for ourselves and our son. My husband brings me happiness that could never be explained in words. I am proud to say he is my husband, even during the not so good of times. Regarding post #51 You say marriage is just a piece of paper.....which translates to marriage being the same as cohabitating, accept marriage comes with a peice of paper.....then you continue on to say that you can think of 10 unhappy marriages for every one happy marriage.....which would translate to there being 10 unhappy cohabitating couples for every one happy cohabitating couple.....don't agree with that? Contradicting yourself aren't you? Forgive me if I am wrong but I would bet you don't think that many cohabitators are that unhappy. If they are the same and one just has a piece of paper....is it that piece of paper that are making all of these people married so miserable? It sounds like to me, you are cohabitating and miserable because, perhaps your man does not want to marry you? If it really was not that big of a deal to you, then why are you on here? Do you just like to argue or did you really want to know why others continue to get/be married? You seem to argue just to argue.....perhaps marriage is not right for you since you have such a difficult time seeing other peoples point of view..... Good luck with love. I hope you find someone worth marrying, or should I say, someone finds you worth marrying.
Woggle Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I do agree that marriage is not for everybody but if it is just a piece of paper why do gays fight so hard for the right to marry?
Oregon Blackberry Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I do agree that marriage is not for everybody but if it is just a piece of paper why do gays fight so hard for the right to marry? I have always wondered that. In this day and age, most places of employment are now introducing "domestic partner" into insurance plans and as far as wills and such, you can leave your $ to whomever you want to, so I don't see that big deal. I do think that a piece of paper of marriage is necessary for a happy, stable life for kids, but I am not sure how I feel about the "We're a gay couple, let's adopt a kid" thing.
BlueEyedSarah Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 So, i've been reading how unhappy everyone seems in these long term marriages. I'm not married and am very hesitant to ever get married. Why not just be together without the legal hoo-haa, and just be together because YOU want to be together? What is the obsession with actually being married when in fact so many marriages end, or you end up writing about your misery on this forum? Let me ask you all.....How many of you would do it differently if you could do it again? I read on this forum about 19 - 22 year olds wanting to get married or are married. I'm 20 and thinking about marriage scares me!
OpenBook Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I do agree that marriage is not for everybody but if it is just a piece of paper why do gays fight so hard for the right to marry? I've always assumed they're after society's acceptance ... recognition of the legitimacy of their lifestyle ... more than anything else. Which (to even want to possess that) is as ludicrous as thinking marriage will bring them happiness.
annieo Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 I don't think that gay/lesbian couples generally believe that marriage assures happiness or a forever situation any more than straight couples, the realistic ones, anyway. I would imagine that homosexual couples want marriage because people are not that different, despite sexual orientation. There are as many reasons for gays/lesbians to want to marry as straights. To make a public declaration, to gather friends and family around to celebrate your love and commitment, to hope for the best. Mostly, I think it's about fairness, equality, not being discriminated against, which sounds pretty reasonable to me. What makes a good marriage? Being on the same wavelength in terms of needs/wants, to be open, forgiving, aware of your own foibles and grateful that someone else is aware of them and loves you anyway. To not get chicken and run away when there are bumps in the road. Taking the long-term view. And not working out your childhood familial angst on your partner. Get a therapist if this is an issue.
annieo Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Ooops! I realize that I haven't gotten this thread and the "What makes a good marriage?" thread confused/combined. Although, they are sort of related, I guess...
OpenBook Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 To make a public declaration, to gather friends and family around to celebrate your love and commitment, to hope for the best. Mostly, I think it's about fairness, equality, not being discriminated against, which sounds pretty reasonable to me. Oh absolutely, I agree completely. My point was that society is so f*cked up anyway, it's ludicrous to think that it's in any shape to dole out legitimacy.
annieo Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 And I agree with you, Open Book. Society is a litle screwy. However, I am happy to say I live in Canada, where gays/lesbians aren't fighting for this right anymore. And you are also right that legitimacy is one of the things that I might have been (sadly) searching for when I married my husband, with whom I had been living, after a failed first marriage and two kids, and a nine-year age difference. One of the things I wanted was for people to realize that he and I were serious about each other.
Woggle Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 I don't care one bit about society but my wife and I wanted to put a cherry on top of the sundae and marriage was that cherry. We had a great relation ship but that cherry made it complete. I don't know if that is a good analogy or not but it makes sense to me.
Oregon Blackberry Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 That is a good way to put it. I like it.
Woggle Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Also when she agreed to sign my 20 page prenup how could I not marry her? What other woman woul actually agree to that. That showed me that she serious about making a marriage work with me.
Oregon Blackberry Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 it was very romantic up until that part, lol.
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