an interesting story

[child_of_isis]

There are some people who can be so sick that they don't even know they are sick. Which sort of sounds like the person you are talking about.

 

I didn't know that I was sick. It had crept up so slowly over so many years that I thought it was normal. It was the hormonal upset of birth that eventually tipped me over the edge. My family had to do an 'intervention' of sorts.

 

So, I think another difference of living or dying for the really hard cases, also depends on the support system. One that can recognize if you are too sick to get your butt to a Dr.

 

One poster said 'depression is treatable', not all of it is. We just buried my cousin's ex(she had 3 girls) last week and she had been in treatment (and on meds). She took a gun and blew out the whole middle half of her body.

 

It was me who had to go explain to the girls that no...their mother was not a horrible person who hated her children. But she was sick and in unbearable pain. So this post hits really close to home for me. Only by the grace of god did my child escape having to hear the same years ago.

 

COI - If you read each of my posts in this thread you would see that I have suffered from depression. So much so that at one point I had to seek treatment. I do get it, which is why I have trouble justifying what she allowed her suicide to do to her children. Even at my lowest point, I knew that it would be wrong to leave my daughter with that legacy. I forced myself to put aside how I was feeling and what I wanted to do and I made the choice to go to an emergency room to see a doctor. It was the most terrfying day in my entire life, because of how close it came to being my last. I also understand that every one and every story is different. What applies to me and what I have experienced may not aply to some one else. I think in sitautions like these, we will never have any real answers so no one here is necessarily right or wrong.

 

I really appreciated all the responses thus far. This thread appears to have become a true honest discussion and debate about an issue that I think alot of us, no matter what our sitautions are, can relate to. Thank you.

[annabelle75]

There are some people who can be so sick that they don't even know they are sick. Which sort of sounds like the person you are talking about.

 

I didn't know that I was sick. It had crept up so slowly over so many years that I thought it was normal. It was the hormonal upset of birth that eventually tipped me over the edge. My family had to do an 'intervention' of sorts.

 

So, I think another difference of living or dying for the really hard cases, also depends on the support system. One that can recognize if you are too sick to get your butt to a Dr.

 

One poster said 'depression is treatable', not all of it is. We just buried my cousin's ex(she had 3 girls) last week and she had been in treatment (and on meds). She took a gun and blew out the whole middle half of her body.

 

It was me who had to go explain to the girls that no...their mother was not a horrible person who hated her children. But she was sick and in unbearable pain. So this post hits really close to home for me. Only by the grace of god did my child escape having to hear the same years ago.

 

My depressive episode was caused by a traumatic incident, so it came on very suddenly and was easily identifiable. I know for people that struggle with it on aregular basis it can be hard to recognize. Event though my BF says she showed no signs of depression until the end, buy some of her othe rbehavior I am made suspicious that she might have had some other problems. Perhaps she was even bi-polar. Its too late now for anyone to find out, but I think it could have been a possibility.

 

No matter what the circumstances of a mother's death i agree you should never cast it in a negative light for their children. A child should neve rbe made to feel that their parent didn't love them enough to live for them. My BF has doen what I believe to be a really good job of making sure they keep allthe good memories. He made a collage of pictures and mementos of hers and has it hung intheir room. He also has a shelf in their living room that still holds some dolls from her porcelain doll collection. He keeps these little reminders around so they don't forget her and know that she did love them. I'm very proud of how he has stepped it up and become such a good dad.

[NoIDidn't]

Has anybody here ever seriously considered suicide? I mean, basic thoughts like "this is so unbearable, maybe death is better", or "sometimes I just want to end it all". I have. And then I told somebody to bring me back to reality. Reality is it wasn't that bad. The struggles hadn't killed me, but forced me to learn how to cope and adapt.

 

Its often the surviving or recovering from depression that typically villanize the suicidal. But that's just it. The suicidal are almost beyond the last reachable point - even medication may not stop them. Those of us that sought out medication or other interventions before that point did so because we decided to take control before we truly felt like we were going to lose all control.

 

Far be it from me to judge anyone that's committed suicide, however they did it. I know that they must have been in enormous emotional pain and distress. They couldn't see past the pain and that is a dangerous place to be.

 

Depressed people have a Woe-is-Me mentality. We lean heavily on others for validation and acceptance - if we aren't aware of the reasons why we continue even after getting treatment. People are drained by this constant need to show the depressed person that they are loved and valued, or beautiful and attractive, or capable and adequate.

 

Speaking to people IRL about depression is one of my passions. It really is very misunderstood. Depression is a way of thinking and feeling - and those things can be helped and changed. I am not surprised that so many have dealt with depression on this board/forum (as in LS not the OW/OM forum itself).

[Cliche]

I just cant understand anyone so selfish and manipulative as to kill themselves just to hurt someone else.

 

I dont really get depressed I seem to get angry instead. I wonder if the two emotions are linked?

Depression many times is anger turned inside.

 

ETA: Oops, soory, I see Lucrezia got here first.

 

I think unresolved anger turned either inward or outward is one of the most destructive forces of human nature. Anger is a normal emotion that we all need, but we need to feel it briefly and then treat it gently until it dissipates, on its own, without doing harm. Not easy, but such a healthy way to handle anger.

[Chinook]

Just my $0.02

 

Has anybody here ever seriously considered suicide?

Yes, I have. Twice in life.

 

I think a line needs to be drawn between clinical depression and suicide. Those people who are clinically depressed usually seek help either consciously or subconsciously. Those people who are suicidal and not simply calling for help due to depression, are usually very clear in their own minds why they are doing it. Those people who take their own lives rarely do so in several failed attempts. A genuinely suicidal person generally has thought things through and can see no other way out.

 

Let me put another take on it. Those people left behind very often feel it is a selfish act, an act which considers only that person and their desire not to be here, their desire not to feel or endure the pain of life any longer.

 

What if it isn't actually like that...? What if, the person who is suicidal truly believes that they are a burden to their friends and family...? What if they truly believe that to continue living, they take a risk that by their future actions and inactions, they will continue to burden or hurt the people around them...?

 

Suicide isn't only selfish, it can also be one of the only altruistic actions a person can take (in their eyes). Whether that person is of sound mind or not makes no real difference, what matters is that is their reality. The sad fact is, when someone takes their life, we all have a role to play... was there something different we could have done...? Did that person shut themselves away and withdraw from life...? Could we have smiled at them a little more...? Shown a little more compassion...?

 

Suicide is simply an act of making a choice to not be a part of a life the person already feels outside of. Being outside of that life is incredibly painful and that is the demon of depression. Making the choice to not burden others with their presence is imho a brave choice to make. Yes, in our eyes it is selfish... but step back and think, why is it selfish...? A person has a right to choose how they will live or die... irrespective of their responsibilities. In this case, the woman's children are being cared for are they not...? She knew they would be. That left her free to make the choice she made for her, and for everyone around her.

[Chinook]

I'm not sure I really made sense with my last post. Just that I've visited the suicide demon twice now and both times I felt it was best for all concerned if I wasn't here and neither was I depressed. I felt 'down' about my situations yes, but I didn't feel or characterise any of the signs of clinical depression.

 

My first time I felt suicidal was 4 weeks into being treated for an aggressive breast cancer. I was undergoing aggressive treatment and my Oncologist told me he didn't know whether it would work (and that's still the story today). What pushed me to feeling suicidal was fear. I was afraid of living in fear of the cancer returning. It destroyed my life. I didn't want it to come back and destroy it again. Most of all, I didn't want my parents to have to nurse me and watch me die in pain. My theory and reasoning was 'why wait for it to come and get me..?'

 

The second time I considered suicide was I had just lost a child. After I finished cancer treatment, I was told I would be infertile. Two years later, I started dating someone and it didn't work out, I ended the relationship and not long afterwards discovered I was pregnant, with the stress and pain involved as it turned out, I lost the baby. I theorised that I was making a lot of bad mistakes in life, I was hurting myself and those people around me. It seemed easier not to be here to endure that.

 

If that makes sense.

 

I can't tell you what stopped me on both occasions. I think the only thing which has stopped me is the faith and hope that 'things will be better soon' even when things are pretty bad. Neither time was I treated for clinical depression. I probably should have been considering the magnitude of the losses I'd endured.

[Curious139]

Has anybody here ever seriously considered suicide? I mean, basic thoughts like "this is so unbearable, maybe death is better", or "sometimes I just want to end it all"....

The suicidal are almost beyond the last reachable point - even medication may not stop them. Those of us that sought out medication or other interventions before that point did so because we decided to take control before we truly felt like we were going to lose all control.

 

Far be it from me to judge anyone that's committed suicide, however they did it. I know that they must have been in enormous emotional pain and distress. They couldn't see past the pain and that is a dangerous place to be.

 

Great post, as are some others here. I'm new so forgive me if I repeat anything obvious.

 

I'm only just beyond suicide, having lost the love of my life through my own lack of courage - or honourable commitment to my wife and children. I can't decide. It has been a bit over a month.

 

To be accurate, it was a feeling of wanting to be dead - it's still there - rather than wanting to take my life. But that is semantics because I certainly considered what I'd do. One thought was paramount - I could not leave a legacy of suicide for my children, so it would have to be a car accident, fall off a cliff, go for a swim (I can't)......etc.

 

At my most depressed point, I truly felt that my death would be no loss and in fact would be the best thing for my family, friends etc. An absolute feeling of complete worthlessness.

 

In profound depression, there is no self. People who think the depressed are selfish are completely wrong. At the nadir of depression there is no sense of self at all. Virtually a complete loss of any sense of identity - the ego is gone. Nothing. Empty. A black wall. No future except pain.

[Chinook]

In profound depression, there is no self. People who think the depressed are selfish are completely wrong. At the nadir of depression there is no sense of self at all. Virtually a complete loss of any sense of identity - the ego is gone. Nothing. Empty. A black wall. No future except pain.

wow. I don't think I've ever seen it described so well. Thankyou.

[fisherfool]

I think unresolved anger turned either inward or outward is one of the most destructive forces of human nature. Anger is a normal emotion that we all need, but we need to feel it briefly and then treat it gently until it dissipates, on its own, without doing harm. Not easy, but such a healthy way to handle anger.

Excellent post and not easy at all. Anger causes so many problems when it is unresolved. Depression and suicide are two of those problems. You can look at most actions that cause others pain though and find anger at their root. Americans deal with anger by trying to pretend it doesn't exist. We can see how well that works.

 

We've all heard that suicide is selfish but I agree with Curious. When you're at that point the self is gone, there's nothing left inside. The only thing that can keep you here is outside of yourself, your kids, your wife, your husband etc.