the "it's all about the kids" lie

[mystic_pizza]

arrggg.. ive heard that so many times from my MM. Not that i want him to leave her for me or anything like that. He claims they hardly ever have sex, and when they do its less than mediocre, that they fight all the time, but she would 'take him for everything' if he ever left her or if she found out about the affair. If it was me, and i was in a marriage like that, theres no way i would stay for the kids. I think the kids would be better off being with parents who are actually happy. I never understood why some people stay so long when they are clearly miserable. Not me.

 

I completely agree Love is Tragic. I was in a terrible marriage and stayed for 10 years because of the kids. Then, one day realized I needed to get OUT of it for the kids. They were crushed, but they healed and now they completely understand why I had to end the marriage.

 

I don't let my MM talk to me about his marriage. I know tid bits and that is all I need to know, nothing more. Their marriage has nothing to do with our R. It works much better that way. I look at it this way, our time together is limited already, why muss it up with "Debbie Downer" talk about his marriage. He respects my feelings about it and our R has grown quite nicely.

 

As far as his kids are concerned (they are all grown and out of the house) that is for him to decide what to do and I do not have any expectations. If he leaves the M, it's his choice and if I decide that the R is too painful to continue, I will leave and it's my choice. That is our understanding and it works for now. It eliminates the "I can't leave because of the kids" discussion.

[frannie]

Frannie,

I really like your posts but I can feel the annoyance, bitterness and pain in your comments.

More than a few people have commented on your mm's lack of committment/involvement with you (on the thread you started)--it was actually the majority.

Your mm really doesn't want to change his life at all for you.

If his kids are as important as he tells you, then let him work for the company which is based in his home town and then he can see his children every night. He would have to give you up, but then he is prepared to do that anyway. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if he still loves his wife, but he is not going to tell you that.

 

Most unhappy mm realise that to be with the OW they have to make huge changes and some who want the relationship badly enough will do that. He doesn't see his children during the week by choice, because of where he works. He wants it all and he is getting it all. He sacrifices nothing and a few phone calls is all it takes to maintain the status quo.

He wouldn't want to hurt you by leaving on Friday to go home to his wife, and it does hurt because I have been through it.

 

Well there's very lilttle annoyance, no bitterness and pain in my life where he's concerned, so I suppose you're reading your own feelings into what I'm writing. Yeah, I feel let down by him, yeah, I feel resentful of that now and again... briefly. And I have felt somewhat annoyed by him in recent months, but you know, who doesn't have those issues from time to time with their SO..?

 

I could care less what 'the majority' of LSers responding to my thread think. They don't know me, don't know him, and most of those commenting on this forum aren't even people who have even been in affairs, or even had a half-decent relationship. So... I'll go with Voltaire or whoever it was, that said a popular vote is no substitute for the truth

 

Now we've got that out of the way... onto the meat of your post. And yes, of course... my MM doesn't want to change his life for me. Yeah... I know! So what? As you say, he also doesn't want to change seeing me so he can see them more either. You're quite correct... he wants both his children, and me, in his life. And yes, I'm very happy with the fact that faced with the horrible 'choice', he'd rather keep them in his life than me. What parent wouldn't..?

 

He doesn't see his children during the week by choice... because he wants to be with me.

 

As usual, somehow, a complete stranger thinks they know what MM feels about his wife... bizarre. And claims to want the best for me, despite not knowing me, him or the situation at all. And despite the fact that neither he nor I have asked for input. Given that I know 2 out of 3 people in this situation, and you know none of them, allow me to decide for myself what is going on, and what I'll do, and what is best for me.

 

But thanks for your concern. And... the proper place to discuss MY relationship is on MY thread. I'll visit it when I feel like discussing it. Thanks.

[frannie]

If it were all about his children, he wouldn't be having an A and risking his M.

 

...

 

It is all about him. He comes first. Even before the children.

 

He is just rationalizing when he tells himself this. And due to his lies and manipulating your reality, you too, (the OW) starts rationalizing and defending his behavior in the very exact manner that he does.

 

That's the way it works. That is what the bond between you and him is about.

 

U-huh. Absolutely. Go back to my post. I said exactly the same thing.

 

It's not about 'the children'... it's about a father's access to the children... for HIS sake as much as anything else. And that is why it is that MM will have an affair (for their own needs) while still remaining married, and risking everything... because it's the children they want to see. Not for the children's sake, but for MM's own need to be there for their kids.

 

I absolutely understand that, and still love him. It wouldn't be something I'd do... but then I'm a woman, and I don't have to face that... walking out of my home and leaving my kids behind.

[NoIDidn't]

But thanks for your concern. And... the proper place to discuss MY relationship is on MY thread. I'll visit it when I feel like discussing it. Thanks.

 

Aren't we just a little touchy? You brought up your R in THIS thread. You sound like FavoriteHeadache now. Wanting to post, but not wanting any responses back that question what you posted.

 

No one here is trying to tell you what to do. Just addressing the general *tone* of your posts. And it is really depressed and annoyed sounding, no matter how much bravado you put behind defending it.

 

No need to be so snarky, Frannie. That is SO not like you.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

I didn't read all the posts but here are some of my opinions:

 

1. Stay away from married men or women whether you are married or not

2. If you're married, and everyone follows #1, you will have nobody to cheat with.

3. If you are married, leave before you cheat

4. If you are thinking of dating a married person, wait until they leave and date single people.

 

Too simple, eh.

 

I left my exH and it's still "all about the kids". The worst thing we did for my emotional state was stay together for the sake of the kids. I took the rejection from my exH very personally and having a hell of a time trusting men and relationships now.

[frannie]

Aren't we just a little touchy? You brought up your R in THIS thread. You sound like FavoriteHeadache now. Wanting to post, but not wanting any responses back that question what you posted.

 

No one here is trying to tell you what to do. Just addressing the general *tone* of your posts. And it is really depressed and annoyed sounding, no matter how much bravado you put behind defending it.

 

No need to be so snarky, Frannie. That is SO not like you.

 

Touchy, no. Tired of being advised when I didn't ask for it, yes. I may have referred to my relationship, but that doesn't mean I want to discuss it or defend it. I'm using it as an example..? Bringing my experience of being an OW to someone else's situation. Not looking for advice.

 

And thanks for your advice, but I'll be as snarky as I like. You have no idea what I'm 'like'

[NoIDidn't]

And thanks for your advice, but I'll be as snarky as I like. You have no idea what I'm 'like'

 

Again, with the snarky-ness. It wasn't advice. I was talking about the usual manner that you respond on this forum. What you are 'like' away from this place, is not my concern. Lots of misdirected anger, though.

 

Be as snarky as you like. Better to do it here than with your MM. I can only imagine how well THAT would go off.

[TogetherForever]

Frannie,

The ignore option works wonders ya know!

[overandout]

Again, with the snarky-ness. It wasn't advice. I was talking about the usual manner that you respond on this forum. What you are 'like' away from this place, is not my concern. Lots of misdirected anger, though.

 

Be as snarky as you like. Better to do it here than with your MM. I can only imagine how well THAT would go off.

 

 

NoIDidn't, some people ask for advice on the forum, they get it and then when things don't pan out as they wanted, they get upset when people express their points of view.

 

Frannie's chap says his kids are so important to him that he chooses not to see them for 3 nights during the week. So he sees them at weekends and then he can see Frannie as well--it appears he is a cake eater.

 

When push comes to shrug and he tells her that he is remaining married and is prepared for the affair to end, he finds that Frannie is the one insisting on continuing the affair.

Is he going to give it up when she makes it so easy for him to continue?

Of course not. Why would he?

 

He will carry on cheating if he can get away with it and will probably still be married in 20 years time. He loves his family (wife and kids) no matter what else he says, and it so sad that she can't see it.

If the mm is sick in hospital, who do you think will be at his bedside?

She is in denial, hence the "touchy" remarks.

[Lizzie60]

Kids don't necessarily suffer from the parent's affair, whether it's the mother or the father. I'll speak about the dad, cause I am an OW.

 

Even if they don't have sex (the parents), and everything else is fine in the M, kids have no idea that it is a sexless (well almost) M... They are happy, parents don't talk about their sex life in front of the kids..LOL

 

Kids could be unhappy when the parents are miserable together and not having affairs. If the parents fight all the time, that's when they damage their kids...not if they have a discreet affair.

 

Affairs has nothing to do with the kids' welfare and happiness.

 

MM and W can be totally happy in all levels except for the sex part, when, usually only one partner is unhappy about it...

 

So I totally respect someone who choose to remain in their M for the sake of their kids.

 

And I still beleive that some MM truly loves the OW but will choose to remain in their M for the kids... they put their kids' happiness before their own.

 

Every affair is a different situation...

[Turquoise Waters]

My brother-in-law's dad left his mom for the OW when he was in high school and he is in his late 30's now and there is still resentment deep down with him and his 3 brothers and sisters. I think it would have been better if they would have stayed together, even if it was for the kids. His dad caused a lot of pain for the kids and his mom and the relationship with his kids will always be awkward to some extent because they know their dad was a jerkoff. I've met his mom several times and she is not only a lot more attractive than his dad's wife, she is a lot nicer and more fun to be around. Also she is a lawyer, she got her law degree after he left her (she was already a successful nurse). You're around her and you wonder what man in his right mind would leave such a great person.

[overandout]

Kids don't necessarily suffer from the parent's affair, whether it's the mother or the father. I'll speak about the dad, cause I am an OW.

 

Even if they don't have sex (the parents), and everything else is fine in the M, kids have no idea that it is a sexless (well almost) M... They are happy, parents don't talk about their sex life in front of the kids..LOL

 

Kids could be unhappy when the parents are miserable together and not having affairs. If the parents fight all the time, that's when they damage their kids...not if they have a discreet affair.

 

Affairs has nothing to do with the kids' welfare and happiness.

 

MM and W can be totally happy in all levels except for the sex part, when, usually only one partner is unhappy about it...

 

So I totally respect someone who choose to remain in their M for the sake of their kids.

 

And I still beleive that some MM truly loves the OW but will choose to remain in their M for the kids... they put their kids' happiness before their own.

 

Every affair is a different situation...

 

 

 

So do you think that the main reason they stray is for sex and if that's all it is, then of course if an OW meets that need, then the mm will stay with his wife and kids who meet all his other needs.

I just don't buy the line when a mm tells the OW that he doesn't love his wife but he still goes home to her and refuses to leave the family.

Just how unhappy is he?

 

If the OW has the courage to leave the mm and he pursues her missing her, then I think he may well love the OW. If however he accepts the end of the affair and doesn't contact the OW, leaving the OW to contact him and resume the affair, she loses her credibility and he will just continue with the set up so long as it doesn't impact on his primary relationship--the marriage.

They just want to enhance their lives not change it.

[Lizzie60]

So do you think that the main reason they stray is for sex and if that's all it is, then of course if an OW meets that need, then the mm will stay with his wife and kids who meet all his other needs.

I just don't buy the line when a mm tells the OW that he doesn't love his wife but he still goes home to her and refuses to leave the family.

Just how unhappy is he?

 

If the OW has the courage to leave the mm and he pursues her missing her, then I think he may well love the OW. If however he accepts the end of the affair and doesn't contact the OW, leaving the OW to contact him and resume the affair, she loses her credibility and he will just continue with the set up so long as it doesn't impact on his primary relationship--the marriage.

They just want to enhance their lives not change it.

 

It's not always 'ALL THIS' or 'ALL THAT'...

 

If the sex is the only thing missing in his M, yes the MM will go out and get it outside the M... and he will not necessarily fall in love with the OW... and he will remain in his M because all his needs are fulfilled.

 

I just don't buy the line when a mm tells the OW that he doesn't love his wife but he still goes home to her and refuses to leave the family.

Just how unhappy is he?

 

Yes, it does happen, that the MM doesn't love his wife and he's still comfortable in the M... he's not unhappy about it... cause he has everything... the A might be enough for him to be happy and not leave home.

 

If the OW has the courage to leave the mm and he pursues her missing her, then I think he may well love the OW. If however he accepts the end of the affair and doesn't contact the OW, leaving the OW to contact him and resume the affair, she loses her credibility and he will just continue with the set up so long as it doesn't impact on his primary relationship--the marriage.

 

I disagree... he might just pursue her but not being in love with her... he just wants the sex (because it is good and exciting). And if he accepts the end of the A, he might just swallow his pain and not try to contact her because he loves her and respect her choice.

 

They just want to enhance their lives not change it.

 

In many cases, yes, absolutely.

 

But I know that with one of my MM right now...if I was depressed and would tell him that I want him to leave his W or else, I end up the A... I honestly think he would. He wanted to last winter... I talked him out of it.

 

So, like I said before, each case is different.

[annabelle75]

My brother-in-law's dad left his mom for the OW when he was in high school and he is in his late 30's now and there is still resentment deep down with him and his 3 brothers and sisters. I think it would have been better if they would have stayed together, even if it was for the kids. His dad caused a lot of pain for the kids and his mom and the relationship with his kids will always be awkward to some extent because they know their dad was a jerkoff. I've met his mom several times and she is not only a lot more attractive than his dad's wife, she is a lot nicer and more fun to be around. Also she is a lawyer, she got her law degree after he left her (she was already a successful nurse). You're around her and you wonder what man in his right mind would leave such a great person.

 

Sometimes marriages just don't work out. Would the kids feel any different if the he wasn't having an affair before he left or are they just bitter that he left? I think people are naive to think all marriages will last forever. Wether its right or wrong, these days most don't.

 

I personally feel that parents should not involve their kids in their marital and divorce issues. My husband cheated, but I never have and never will tell my daughter. Our marital problems had nothing to do with her and if I told her it would just be to make her father look bad. I'm not that selfish. He was a crappy husband but he's a good dad. I'lll never try to turn her against him. At that point I would be the one in the wrong.

[Lizzie60]

Sometimes marriages just don't work out. Would the kids feel any different if the he wasn't having an affair before he left or are they just bitter that he left? I think people are naive to think all marriages will last forever. Wether its right or wrong, these days most don't.

 

I personally feel that parents should not involve their kids in their marital and divorce issues. My husband cheated, but I never have and never will tell my daughter. Our marital problems had nothing to do with her and if I told her it would just be to make her father look bad. I'm not that selfish. He was a crappy husband but he's a good dad. I'lll never try to turn her against him. At that point I would be the one in the wrong.

 

with what you said... LEAVE THE KIDS OUT OF THE MARITAL PROBLEMS.

 

Sooo true... to tell the kids will only screw their heads... they love both parents equally... it only hurt them.

 

My daughter is crazy about her grandfather and grandmother (not her real ones, but that's a long story).... she always called them 'pépère et mémère'...

 

He cheated all his life on his wife... they are still together... after sixty some years... He's 88, she's 89... Would I tell my daughter (now 31)... NEVER in a million years... it would hurt her soooo much... she thinks the world of him ...despite what he did, he was and still is an amazing father to is 3 daughters and he's the best grandfather in the world to his grandkids including my daughter.

 

It is extremely immature and selfish to tell the kids IMO... Only irresponsible parents hurt their kids during and after the divorce.

 

So I say, good for you to be a good mother!

[HappyAtLast]

Like mostly everyone else, I thought my situation was different.

 

Married for nearly twenty years, I knew after five that things were not working. I did not D my wife while my son was growing up because I worked very erratic hours. I would have had to give my XW full custody, or he would have had to spend lots of time with a care-giver. Either situation was not acceptable to me. I stayed and tried to make it work for some years. Then, I gave up.

 

I took a job at a hospital four days a week in another state. This helped to make my marriage bearable. At this point my son was old enough that the "light at the end of the tunnel" was in sight. I could fulfill my obligation to my son, providing him with an intact home with two loving parents.

 

Would I do it differently? I don't think so. My W and I did not fight, I was an active and involved father to my son. I met my OW several months prior to my son leaving for college. I had totally closed myself off from meeting anyone else for the last fifteen years of my M, so falling for my OW was not something I had planned on happening.

 

Is it right to stay for kids? Who knows. Every situation is different.