FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Some of you are familiar with my story. For those who are not then here's my original thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t117557/?highlight=fireandice So WH and I have been trying to work things out. We have been doing quite well really although his betrayal is still in the front of my mind everyday. It doesn't help that even though he told her numerous times that it was over and he was working things out with me that she continued to call and drive by. Well it has been since the start of April (give or take a few days) since we had heard from her, or so I thought. Two weeks ago we were gone for the weekend and when we got back I checked the phone to see who had called while we were away. She had called twice and left one message but didn't say anything, she just sat there for the whole 30 seconds or however long the voice mail thing gives you to leave a message. I was upset and confronted him about it. WTH was she still contacting him? He said he didn't know but he'd find out. He talked to her BIL at work the next day and asked him to tell her to leave us alone. He's much to chicken to confront him herself because he hates conflict. Well that pisses me off but whatever. Anyways we had changed his number on his cell phone bill a few weeks ago because he said he didn't want her to be able to reach him. Well I got the phone bill yesterday and it was a little more than mine even though we are on the same plan. Since neither of us subscribe to detailed billing I called the phone company to ask why his was more expensive. They told me that I could go online if I have his pin number (which I do) and look at the detailed bill. Well that's what I did and I was pissed at what I saw. She had called his phone a couple of times in April but I knew about those since he had given me his phone to carry. She always hung up when I answered so although I was 99.9% sure it was her calling, I wasn't positive although I always told him about it. The one that pissed me off the most were the three phone calls on Mothers Day (May 13)!! She had called him once, then he called her back (lasted 5 minutes) and then she called right back after that. OMG I can't express how angry I was yesterday when I saw this! After she had called a couple of weeks ago while we were away I had asked him numerous times if he had spoken to her and he always said no. I am so sick of the lies! Anyways, when he got home from work last night I had the printed out bill in my hand, threw it at him and said when he's ready to quit lying then he can speak to me and I left the room. He came in the bedroom and told me what had happened and why he didn't tell me. On Mothers Day we had gone to my parents house for dinner. Well my dad had a little too much to drink and decided it would be a good time to confront my WH about everything he has been putting me through. It was awful. I'm very close to my family so they know everything that had been going on so I knew it would come but I didn't expect him to do it on Mothers Day of all days. It was very upsetting to me and we ended up leaving early (although I will say my WH sat there and took everything which really shocked my dad and myself). While driving home I was still very upset and my husband had gotten two calls while on the way home. He told me that it was his business partner (one of the calls actually was). Well it turns out that one of the calls was from her. He told me last night that she was freaking out and said that she needed to speak to him, that it was very important. He asked "about what" and she said that she needs to tell him something very important and has to see him. I guess when we got home he called her back. He said that he told her to leave him alone and to quit calling. I asked him what else he told her because obviously it hasn't gotten through to her since she had just called a couple of weeks ago on our home phone. He said that was about it. He just kept telling her to quit calling, that it was over. I asked him if he said something like "I really did like you but I want to make things work between my wife and I" and he said yes, he did say something like that. Well I told him that's why she's still trying to contact him. She's just waiting for something to happen here and thinks that he'll go running right back to her. She's young (23) and that has been the excuse up until now but what really pisses me off is the fact that she would do this on MOTHERS DAY of all freakin' days. God I hate that bitch! Anyways, he said he didn't tell me about it (he has told me in the past when she has called if I wasn't around) was because I was already so upset about what had happened at my parents that he didn't think I needed anymore stress that night. Okay, I can see his point there but WTH wouldn't he tell me when I asked him last week if she had tried to contact him? It just stresses me out so much that he would keep this from me. I don't think they are still carrying on the affair (I doubt she would call my house if they were) but why can't he get the balls to tell her off? It just seems like he is still concerned about her feelings (he has said to me before that this isn't her fault. Sorry but she knew full well he was married and she didn't care!) and doesn't care how much this hurts me. What should I do? She's obviously not going away. In fact she is friends with the GF of one of his friends and she was over there just this weekend whining about how much she misses him. They told her that she needs to get over it but I don't think she will. She still believes that he will come back to her and that's why she won't just go away. So what should I do? Any advice?
Sheba Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 It sounds to me as if you are able to tolerate a little more conflict than your husband. Perhaps you should go and speak to her? Or phone her? She might lose her nerve if she has to deal with you saying "will you leave us alone". Or, perhaps your husband should give YOU the phone when she calls so that you can say something like "Listen, my husband knows that it is you calling and wants me to tell you not to call again. You seem not to believe him when he tells you that, but you should understand that he and I are moving on together and you will not be part of our lives." I think that if he "betrays" her by letting you answer her call, she might get the message. Just an idea.
Lynna Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 You could always take out a restraining order. Or at least tell your husband that if he does not tell her unquestionably to stop then you will take that step. He should tell her to go away while you are sitting right there and can hear what he tells her. Or you could tell her yourself that if she does not stop that you will take out a restraining order. Sounds like you might need to change his cell number and even your home number again as an alternate option.
LakesideDream Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 FireandIce, I am a bit perplexed about your latest post. While unable to load your previous post (thx for the link anyway) I believe I remember some of it. Obviously things are "better" now between you and your H. Hovever, you are still heavily into "attack mode". Is the OW being a pain, no question. Is your husband encouraging it... it doesen't seem so. Is your husband "proactive" enough discouraging the OW? Certainly not enough to suit you. You knew what you were getting though when you married him. He's not a very confrontational person. Personally I can't imagine my reactions to being in your husbands shoes. Having "papers" thrown at me as I walked into my home as I returned home from work? I might happen once. Having my spouse, and spouses parents lecture me on my marriage? Not even once. 60 seconds in to the discussion I would end it with, "thanks however it's really none of your business". In your current post you repeatedly state that you "confront" your "WS" (not your husband, your "WS) again and again. Is this a situation you expect him to tolerate forever? It seems the old adage that "you attract more bee's with honey than vinagar" may be in play in your relationship. You might consider extending the olive branch of love, affection, and companionship to your husband. His reaction may surprise you. It's no fun to come home to a battle every night. Sooner or later, he'll just stop coming home. Or... maybe he should just move to Guantanamo Bay for some "official" torture.
Melissa277 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 FireandIce, I am a bit perplexed about your latest post. While unable to load your previous post (thx for the link anyway) I believe I remember some of it. Obviously things are "better" now between you and your H. Hovever, you are still heavily into "attack mode". Is the OW being a pain, no question. Is your husband encouraging it... it doesen't seem so. Is your husband "proactive" enough discouraging the OW? Certainly not enough to suit you. You knew what you were getting though when you married him. He's not a very confrontational person. Personally I can't imagine my reactions to being in your husbands shoes. Having "papers" thrown at me as I walked into my home as I returned home from work? I might happen once. Having my spouse, and spouses parents lecture me on my marriage? Not even once. 60 seconds in to the discussion I would end it with, "thanks however it's really none of your business". In your current post you repeatedly state that you "confront" your "WS" (not your husband, your "WS) again and again. Is this a situation you expect him to tolerate forever? It seems the old adage that "you attract more bee's with honey than vinagar" may be in play in your relationship. You might consider extending the olive branch of love, affection, and companionship to your husband. His reaction may surprise you. It's no fun to come home to a battle every night. Sooner or later, he'll just stop coming home. Or... maybe he should just move to Guantanamo Bay for some "official" torture. I don't know your story, but have you ever been cheated on? It doesn't sound like it. Let me tell you from experience that it's the worst feeling of betrayal a person can ever imagine. He cheated for God's sake and the OW is still calling him. And you think FireandIce doesn't think WS is doing enough to suit her? Apparently, neither does OW as SHE IS STILL CALLING. He needs to put a stop to it ASAP if he is serious about working on his marriage. Until then, FireandIce is completely justified in her actions. She has to extend the olive branch? C'mon. Really? How 'bout WS telling the OW to take a hike? Wouldn't that be a better extension of the so-called "olive branch?' OW called him and he lied. Period. Maybe if WS actually told the truth once in a while, he wouldn't have to "tolerate" such situations. Oh, and I wish my dad was still alive to give my WS a piece of his mind ... no parent ever wants to see their child hurt, no matter how old they are. And if we're going to quote old sayings, how about "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." So too bad for him. Let's all have a pity party cause WS got hollered at by FIL. Oh well. And he is a WS ... he's married and he cheated. Sorry FireandIce ... but this post just totally p*ssed me off. After reading this BS, I may move to Guantanamo Bay.
whichwayisup Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Well it turns out that one of the calls was from her. He told me last night that she was freaking out and said that she needed to speak to him, that it was very important. So him talking to her basically dismisses his promise to you NOT to talk to her, AND his actions also show (what an assfool he is!!) that HER feelings are more important than yours. I say, WHO cares if she was upset. She had NO right to call him. Honestly if I were you, you either call her and tell her ALL the calls have to stop or you'll press harrassment charges against her - And if she is upset she can talk to a friend or get counselling, but to leave your H out of it completely. She is trying to manipulate him, make him feel bad/worse for her and because he still may be emotionally attached to her, she knows his weakness. Atleast by doing this, she may tell you if he's still contacting her. .. I mean, it could be he's calling her too...Or maybe not. But he isn't going to own up to you that he is still calling her, I bet in his mind he doesn't see it as a big deal because he's not having sex with her anymore. OR, he just gets a NEW phone completely, new number. You have EVERY right to be pissed off at him. There was NO reason for him to take that call, especially on Mother's Day.
LakesideDream Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I don't know your story, but have you ever been cheated on? It doesn't sound like it. Let me tell you from experience that it's the worst feeling of betrayal a person can ever imagine. He cheated for God's sake and the OW is still calling him. And you think FireandIce doesn't think WS is doing enough to suit her? Apparently, neither does OW as SHE IS STILL CALLING. He needs to put a stop to it ASAP if he is serious about working on his marriage. Until then, FireandIce is completely justified in her actions. She has to extend the olive branch? C'mon. Really? How 'bout WS telling the OW to take a hike? Wouldn't that be a better extension of the so-called "olive branch?' OW called him and he lied. Period. Maybe if WS actually told the truth once in a while, he wouldn't have to "tolerate" such situations. Oh, and I wish my dad was still alive to give my WS a piece of his mind ... no parent ever wants to see their child hurt, no matter how old they are. And if we're going to quote old sayings, how about "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." So too bad for him. Let's all have a pity party cause WS got hollered at by FIL. Oh well. And he is a WS ... he's married and he cheated. Sorry FireandIce ... but this post just totally p*ssed me off. After reading this BS, I may move to Guantanamo Bay. Melissa, Yes I have been cheated on. I was cheated on, for many years (without my knowledge) ending finally with a 25 year marriage ending badly. I did not tell Fire to "do" anything. She asked for "advise". Obviously she loves her husband enough to have remained with him to work out their problems. From her post I gleaned that she might be taking a to agressive tact. I took my time to point out the obvious from "the other side", ie male point of view. I am also a "Dad" of two adult children. If I were put into the position to critisize a spouse of one of my kids, one-on-one I would refuse, as ... I clearly know it's not my place to do so. If one of my kids come to me for private advice, that's another matter. That I would entertain as they are my blood. I believe the truth is that, one way or another, constant bickering and fighting end more relationships than any other single cause. Problems can often be hammered out, overcome. When one partner has the "upper hand" and uses it to constantly berate, and belittle, no good comes of it. Being critical to the point of agression seldom helps us in relationships. I can understand your point of view as it is coming from someone who lives "in the land of lies and betrayal" as you say in your screen name. When responding to a persons request for "opinions" it usually helps to at least try and be objective. Just an opinion, and some thoughts from an old man. Remember, Fire asked for "opinions", I offered mine.
Melissa277 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Melissa, Yes I have been cheated on. I was cheated on, for many years (without my knowledge) ending finally with a 25 year marriage ending badly. I did not tell Fire to "do" anything. She asked for "advise". Obviously she loves her husband enough to have remained with him to work out their problems. From her post I gleaned that she might be taking a to agressive tact. I took my time to point out the obvious from "the other side", ie male point of view. I am also a "Dad" of two adult children. If I were put into the position to critisize a spouse of one of my kids, one-on-one I would refuse, as ... I clearly know it's not my place to do so. If one of my kids come to me for private advice, that's another matter. That I would entertain as they are my blood. I believe the truth is that, one way or another, constant bickering and fighting end more relationships than any other single cause. Problems can often be hammered out, overcome. When one partner has the "upper hand" and uses it to constantly berate, and belittle, no good comes of it. Being critical to the point of agression seldom helps us in relationships. I can understand your point of view as it is coming from someone who lives "in the land of lies and betrayal" as you say in your screen name. When responding to a persons request for "opinions" it usually helps to at least try and be objective. Just an opinion, and some thoughts from an old man. Remember, Fire asked for "opinions", I offered mine. I'm sorry that you went through that. Believe me, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. And maybe I am just really, really sensitive, but the way you stated your "opinions and advice" made it sound like FAI should be kissing H's feet and hoping beyond hope that he will stop lying and finally make it clear to OW to stop calling. She shouldn't have to hope and beg and plead and threaten ... he should do it if he wants his marriage. BTW, advice is most often given by prefacing a sentence with "what I would do is" or "what you might try is" or "I think this or that" not "you're still in attack mode" and "certainly not enough to suit you" and "you'd throw papers in my face once" and "having my spouse or spouses parents lecture me on marriage ... not once." That is not advice and she asked for ADVICE. Also, if that's the "male" point of view, no wonder this world is so screwed up. He cheats and runs their marriage into the ground but doesn't want to hear it when he gets home from work that BS found out he was lying ... again? THEN HE SHOULD STOP LYING. I am also very interested to know who you believe has the upper hand here? I'm bettin' you think it's the BS, right? Maybe you should read my threads ... then maybe you'll understand what I'm going through as in the "land of lies and betrayal." It's not pretty and you're judging me on something you know nothing about. Go ahead, I dare you. Again, sorry FireandIce.
Bobster999 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Melissa277, Sounds like you have a few anger issues to deal with. Better get busy.
Author FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 FireandIce, I am a bit perplexed about your latest post. While unable to load your previous post (thx for the link anyway) I believe I remember some of it. Obviously things are "better" now between you and your H. Hovever, you are still heavily into "attack mode". No actually I wasn't. I was angry when she called a couple of weeks ago and let him know that. The next day he said he spoke to her BIL and told her to leave us alone. I asked him if he had talked to her since the last time she called (early April) and he said no. I told him that he could tell me because now was the time to let me know. He once again said no. So you know what, yeah, when I found out that he had lied AGAIN I was most certainly in attack mode. Sorry but I can't see how you can fault anyone for doing what I did last night. I guess some people have a higher tolerance for liars than I do. Personally I can't imagine my reactions to being in your husbands shoes. Having "papers" thrown at me as I walked into my home as I returned home from work? I might happen once. LOL So I should just say "sweetie, hun, sugar pie, what are you still doing calling her? It's okay if you don't want to tell me the truth. Here sit down, you've had a hard day. Can I rub your feet?" I'm tired of being lied to and me throwing the papers at him is a lot better than what I really felt like doing. Having my spouse, and spouses parents lecture me on my marriage? Not even once. 60 seconds in to the discussion I would end it with, "thanks however it's really none of your business". I guess you missed the part where I said how upset I was and how we ended up leaving hey? In your current post you repeatedly state that you "confront" your "WS" (not your husband, your "WS) again and again. Is this a situation you expect him to tolerate forever? It's been three months. I have only confronted him when I find out another lie. If he'd stop lying then he wouldn't have to deal with... oh sorry, tolerate it anymore now would he? It seems the old adage that "you attract more bee's with honey than vinagar" may be in play in your relationship. You might consider extending the olive branch of love, affection, and companionship to your husband. His reaction may surprise you. Extending an olive branch of love, affection and companionship? Gee, why didn't I think of that? What exactly do you think I've been doing these three months? The only time we argue is when she calls or drives by. I guess I should just ignore that because he's here with me? I have two kids to take care of and if I'm constantly stressed out that she's still hanging around (or perhaps call and my daughter answers) then it's not a good situation for them either. It's no fun to come home to a battle every night. And it's no fun finding out he's still lying but I guess I should just keep it to myself so I don't hurt his feelings. Sooner or later, he'll just stop coming home. Then that would be his choice now wouldn't it? If he doesn't put a stop to the calls then he won't have a home to come home to. Or... maybe he should just move to Guantanamo Bay for some "official" torture. Unreal.
Author FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 It sounds to me as if you are able to tolerate a little more conflict than your husband. Perhaps you should go and speak to her? Or phone her? She might lose her nerve if she has to deal with you saying "will you leave us alone". Or, perhaps your husband should give YOU the phone when she calls so that you can say something like "Listen, my husband knows that it is you calling and wants me to tell you not to call again. You seem not to believe him when he tells you that, but you should understand that he and I are moving on together and you will not be part of our lives." I think that if he "betrays" her by letting you answer her call, she might get the message. Just an idea. I have spoken to her before and obviously it did no good. Like I said, she's young and has it in her head that I stole him from her. If she calls again then I will be speaking to her again but I'm not sure if it will do any good. He needs to talk to her and instead of worrying so much about her feelings, he needs to be blunt. I don't think she'll go away until he makes it clear that he wants nothing to do with her. You could always take out a restraining order. Or at least tell your husband that if he does not tell her unquestionably to stop then you will take that step. He should tell her to go away while you are sitting right there and can hear what he tells her. Or you could tell her yourself that if she does not stop that you will take out a restraining order. Sounds like you might need to change his cell number and even your home number again as an alternate option. We did change his cell number. Actually it was his idea sometime towards the end of May. I'm assuming it was because of the call on Mother's Day. Obviously she didn't get the hint though since she called our house phone two weekends ago. The only thing I can think of is for him to call her up and tell her to knock it off. It's obvious what she's trying to do (calling on Mothers Day of all days? Come on, I'm not stupid!) and until he makes it clear that he wants nothing to do with her (ie tell her to f*** off and go away) then I don't think she will stop. To me it seems as though he's so worried about upsetting her but not giving a damn about upsetting me. "She'll go away eventually" is what I always hear. Well it's now been almost three months and she's still not going away. Her going over to his friends house the other night whining and complaining about how much she misses him and what she can do to "win" him back makes it crystal clear to me that she's not going to give up.
Author FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 If I were put into the position to critisize a spouse of one of my kids, one-on-one I would refuse, as ... I clearly know it's not my place to do so. If one of my kids come to me for private advice, that's another matter. That I would entertain as they are my blood. I just wanted to respond to this one point here. I never and would never ask my father to critisize or start a fight with my husband. He did that all on his own without me knowing it was coming. I knew he'd eventually say something because that's how my father is but I never asked him to do it so please don't act as though this was my fault.
Author FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 So him talking to her basically dismisses his promise to you NOT to talk to her, AND his actions also show (what an assfool he is!!) that HER feelings are more important than yours. That's exactly how I feel right now. He's so concerned about her feelings and not hurting her that he's just expecting me to understand. Well I don't understand and I never will. I don't care about her feelings one little bit and it's VERY obvious she doesn't care about mine and he is totally blind to that. Honestly if I were you, you either call her and tell her ALL the calls have to stop or you'll press harrassment charges against her - And if she is upset she can talk to a friend or get counselling, but to leave your H out of it completely. She is trying to manipulate him, make him feel bad/worse for her and because he still may be emotionally attached to her, she knows his weakness. Atleast by doing this, she may tell you if he's still contacting her. .. I mean, it could be he's calling her too...Or maybe not. But he isn't going to own up to you that he is still calling her, I bet in his mind he doesn't see it as a big deal because he's not having sex with her anymore. That's what I'm worried about. I don't want him talking to her, plain and simple. If he wants to continue a friendship or whatever with her (he has repeatedly said he doesn't) then he can do that without me. I'm tired of being put second behind this whore and it ends NOW. She is totally playing him and he's too blind to see it. I said to him last night "do you think it was a total coincidence that she picked MOTHERS DAY of all days to call you on your cell?". He just doesn't get it. She's doing this to piss me off and it's working. Like when she got her sister to call me and say that my husband was with another woman right now. He was at work and on the other line with me at the time. He just doesn't seem to understand that I'll never get over this until she goes away. I was actually doing really well until the phone call (and lame blank message) two weekends ago. Then everything comes rushing back again. Yes, it's still fresh in my mind and I think about it everyday but I never brought it up to him until the calls. Then finding the calls on his phone bill just made it 10 times worse. He just sees it as he's here with me, not with her and everything should be just fine now. Well it's not and it will never be until she quits contacting him.
Lizzie60 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I didn't go through your link...but from what I read here.... this is suspicious... If your husband is really serious about ending this affair and work things out with you...then he needs to be totally TRANSPARENT about it... he's not. He needs to talk to her when you can, in fact, listen to their conversation... I am not saying that you should get involved...but he needs to be completely out there in front of you... from what I read here, I feel he's still hiding stuff. So maybe a conference call would help but control yourself...don't give her hell... don't say a word...he's the one who has to get his a$$ out of this situation.
Author FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 I don't know your story, but have you ever been cheated on? It doesn't sound like it. Let me tell you from experience that it's the worst feeling of betrayal a person can ever imagine. He cheated for God's sake and the OW is still calling him. And you think FireandIce doesn't think WS is doing enough to suit her? Apparently, neither does OW as SHE IS STILL CALLING. He needs to put a stop to it ASAP if he is serious about working on his marriage. Until then, FireandIce is completely justified in her actions. She has to extend the olive branch? C'mon. Really? How 'bout WS telling the OW to take a hike? Wouldn't that be a better extension of the so-called "olive branch?' OW called him and he lied. Period. Maybe if WS actually told the truth once in a while, he wouldn't have to "tolerate" such situations. Oh, and I wish my dad was still alive to give my WS a piece of his mind ... no parent ever wants to see their child hurt, no matter how old they are. And if we're going to quote old sayings, how about "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." So too bad for him. Let's all have a pity party cause WS got hollered at by FIL. Oh well. And he is a WS ... he's married and he cheated. Sorry FireandIce ... but this post just totally p*ssed me off. After reading this BS, I may move to Guantanamo Bay. LOL You have such a way with words Melissa. ITA with everything you posted.
Author FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 I didn't go through your link...but from what I read here.... this is suspicious... If your husband is really serious about ending this affair and work things out with you...then he needs to be totally TRANSPARENT about it... he's not. He needs to talk to her when you can, in fact, listen to their conversation... I am not saying that you should get involved...but he needs to be completely out there in front of you... from what I read here, I feel he's still hiding stuff. So maybe a conference call would help but control yourself...don't give her hell... don't say a word...he's the one who has to get his a$$ out of this situation. That's what I'm so worried about. I mean why lie about it? Okay I can understand him not telling me on Mothers Day that she called because I was already upset enough and I didn't need something else to deal with but why not tell me when I asked him two weeks ago about it? That's what bothers me the most. I gave him the opportunity to tell the truth and he'd rather keep it quiet. I think him phoning her with me sitting right there is the only way this is going to end. I want to know what he is saying to her and how he is saying it. Let's face it, the only way she is going to go away for good is if he is a complete ******* to her and I'm not sure if he's willing to do that. She's still holding out hope that if she causes enough problems then I will kick him out and he will go running back to her. That's why she hasn't gone away and I doubt she will until it's very clear to her that he is done.
LakesideDream Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Fire, I suppose from your responses, explainations that I actually don't have the correct life experiances to comment reasonably on your situation. I never cheated on my ex, or was "caught" and had to slink back into the home trying to make ammends, hat in hand. My opinions came from experiances where there were large disagreements and heated arguments and found myself "giving in" to make and keep the peace in the household, whether I actually believed I was in the wrong or not. I can honestly say I never "won" or prevailed in an important argument once on 25 years of marriage. When it became obvious that winning the argument could be a "deal breaker" vs. the marriage, I always backed off. I had two children to think of, besides my self and my needs. I DO remember how I felt taking verbal and emotional barbs from the ex for sometimes weeks after an argument. How it was hard to come home to the prospect of continuing where it left off. BTW, I am not a "shrinking violet" or "non confrontational" kind of guy. I'm a former Marine Corp officer, 58 years old, with two years of combat "deep in the sh*t in the early 70's. I am willing to fight the good fight, just not at the expense of young children. I know how much it would have ment to me to be "loved" out of an argument or mariatial confrontation rather than badgered and nagged out of one. It never happened. Sorry I didn't relate well to your situation.
Author FireandIce Posted June 20, 2007 Author Posted June 20, 2007 Fire, I suppose from your responses, explainations that I actually don't have the correct life experiances to comment reasonably on your situation. I never cheated on my ex, or was "caught" and had to slink back into the home trying to make ammends, hat in hand. My opinions came from experiances where there were large disagreements and heated arguments and found myself "giving in" to make and keep the peace in the household, whether I actually believed I was in the wrong or not. I can honestly say I never "won" or prevailed in an important argument once on 25 years of marriage. When it became obvious that winning the argument could be a "deal breaker" vs. the marriage, I always backed off. I had two children to think of, besides my self and my needs. I DO remember how I felt taking verbal and emotional barbs from the ex for sometimes weeks after an argument. How it was hard to come home to the prospect of continuing where it left off. BTW, I am not a "shrinking violet" or "non confrontational" kind of guy. I'm a former Marine Corp officer, 58 years old, with two years of combat "deep in the sh*t in the early 70's. I am willing to fight the good fight, just not at the expense of young children. I know how much it would have ment to me to be "loved" out of an argument or mariatial confrontation rather than badgered and nagged out of one. It never happened. Sorry I didn't relate well to your situation. The thing is, this is a lot different than just your run of the mill argument. I've never held a grudge or nagged my husband for weeks after an argument and I never will. This is different though. We didn't just argue over why the garbage wasn't taken out. He had an affair for months and says that he wants to be here with me but when he keeps secrets or lies then it just shows me that he's not fully commited and that bothers me.
LakesideDream Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Fire, If your husband is not fully committed to you, rebuilding the marriage, and being trustworthy, it would bother me too. There is something that constantly confuses me (which may be why I have been single the past 7 years!). When men do something really shortsided and stupid (like your husbands affair), they want it to just "dissappear" put it behind them, announce they made a wrong choice at first be eventually came to the correct decision, and get back to normal. This doesen't seem realistic to me, but I have seen or read of it over and over. When a woman does something stupid or shortsided.. like an affair, they want to be "understood", and forgiven. My ex is an example of that. She still would like to be "understood, and forgiven". That's not reasonable either. IMO (which may well be flawed) is that men want to be judged more on current events than women. "Shorter memories" I guess. This doesen't work well for their women. My guess is that your husband wants to be judged on his current actions not past ones, which isn't really the answer you want. It wouldn't set well with me either. Clearly he shouldn't be in contact with his affair partner. IF I did something as wrong as he did, I absolutely wouldn't want anything to do with the situation (OW) ever again. It would be like picking up a burning log barehanded, you don't do it twice. The fact that he continues to be in even limited contact is troubling. I hope you find a way to solve the problem that works!
Scrivdog Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I can't blame him for not telling you .. he knew he'd be in for a world of yelling and bad feelings if he did. Especially if it's a nothing phone call. The OW is just obsessing for awhile. If he stopped answering her calls, she may start acting crazy.
Sheba Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I agree with Lizzie. He needs to convince you that YOU come first and to convince her that she is out of his life forever. To make some headway towards this, he should get on the phone with her, while you listen to at least his side of the conversation, and to tell her that it is completely over, that she must not call anymore at any time or place, and that he loves you. He must be firm. His choice is clearly now between hurting her or hurting your marriage. She is interfering with your serenity and his. She is relentless. She is putting herself in harms way by hounding him after she was told it was over. So, she must be hurt. She will live. He is NOT responsible for taking care of her, but for taking care of you and the marriage. If he is smart and wants to earn some credits towards regaining your trust, he should let you "write the script" for this call (if you want to do that).
Tomcat33 Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 F&I I can totally empathise with your frustration. While your H is telling you that he wants to be with you and at least he is not a heartless prick and he still cares about the OW's feelings, his main duty and caring should be for you right now. I think he is still not living up to the extend of what he rightly OWES you for this trust to be gained again, for your intimacy to improve for life to be back on track. While you do not want to play the chastizing school principal role (well maybe in the bedroom for some added spice down the road sorry I coulnd't resist...) while you don't want to play the mom role he has to understand that the dynamic for now between the two of and has changed indefinitely. What this means is that a lot of the privacy that he was privied to in the trusting rel. you once had is no longer going to be granted so freely until you feel you can trust him even somewhat again. So: 1. No more phone calls in the other room or in private from you, his is no longer having the A, why should he talk to his OW in private? You are a team, she is the outsider he talks to the OW if he feels the need because he feels badly about what he also did to her but no more hiding it from you. Don't allow him alone time to communicate with her, he should have absolutely nothing more to hide and if he wants to make one more phone call or email to let her down easy but let her down nonetheless fine but it must be done in your presence. 2. Make sure it is the OW who is still trying to contact him and not the other way around, who knows maybe he is secretly emailing her etc. be very careful. With having been the "OW" myself not while we were going out there was no sneaking around but now that he is back home living with his W he tries to contact me periodically from new email accounts he takes out, fake profiles online or from weird phone # that I will not know it is him calling. So just be careful that he is not indeed the one who is initiating contact with the OW and this is why she still calls. 3. As much as he hates confrontation, tough cookies, he NEEDS to call this OW say to her clearly and firmly that the A is done, that there is no more hope for them that he is 100% commited to you and the marriage and that there will be no more A, and he needs to do this right infront of you. No hiding. And NO it is not unreasonable of you to demand this, it's the LEAST that he owes you to put your mind at ease. 4. Lastly it's fine for you to confront the OW but if he is going back on his word to you and speaking to her behind your back, your talking to her is completely futile. In order for it to hit home it has to come straight from the source. 5. when she calls answer the phone and if you have to tell her you will call the police do so. Do what it takes to let her know you are serious. OF course that statement coming from him has much more weight, but your guy sounds like he is acting sort of whimpy now, Don't fret it though....a lot of WHs are whimpy in the end....they have huge cojones to get the A rolling but when it comes down to ending it all they might as well be eunuchs....
Author FireandIce Posted June 20, 2007 Author Posted June 20, 2007 Well I thought I'd post a quick update before I run to work. I haven't had time to read through the responses made since I posted yesterday but I will do that when I get home. Thank you everyone for your input. My husband came home last night and he knew I was still upset. We sat down and he asked me what he needed to do in order to prove to me that he's here and isn't going anywhere. I told him that the phone calls had to stop.....period. He knows that and said that he has tried to tell her. I told him that it wasn't working because she was still calling. I basically told him to tell her to get lost (yeah I didn't use those exact words but you all know what I mean ). He then told me that when he moved out of here she had given him some money when they went out one night. It wasn't a huge amount (not an amount that normal people would worry about anyways) and never said anything at the time about him paying it back. Well now everytime she contacts him that's her excuse. He knows from his friends that she's still in contact with (well the girlfriend of his friend) that she is in fact using this as an excuse. It's her way of still being able to be in his life. As soon as he told me that I instantly said lets go and pay her, so we did. He was angry that she was using this as an excuse because it wasn't money that she had asked to be paid back until he spoke to her during the Mothers Day call. Anyways, we went and got the money and went to her house. I stayed in the car but was within 5 feet of them so I was able to hear him tell her after he handed her the money to stop calling, stop driving by (he fessed up to me last night that he has seen her driving down our street in her sisters car right up until last week) and stop whining to his friends and telling them to tell me things (how much she loves him, how she will wait for him for as long as it takes, etc.). She was upset. I was happy. Hopefully that will be the last we hear from her. I know if a guy said that to me in the tone my husband did (he didn't scream or yell but was very firm in they way he said it) to her then I wouldn't be pursuing anything more. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Lizzie60 Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 He then told me that when he moved out of here she had given him some money when they went out one night. It wasn't a huge amount (not an amount that normal people would worry about anyways) and never said anything at the time about him paying it back. Well now everytime she contacts him that's her excuse. He knows from his friends that she's still in contact with (well the girlfriend of his friend) that she is in fact using this as an excuse. It's her way of still being able to be in his life. As soon as he told me that I instantly said lets go and pay her, so we did. He was angry that she was using this as an excuse because it wasn't money that she had asked to be paid back until he spoke to her during the Mothers Day call. As soon as he told me that I instantly said lets go and pay her, so we did. Isn't that funny!!! What, is he dumb or what? He couldn't think about that by himself... duh... I have my doubts... sorry but I think he's playing dumb...
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