quiet1one1 Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 after spending the last year feeling like a bull with all the red flags waving at me, i finally broke down and got the proof i needed by using a voice recorder in my spouse's car. my question is; is this legal? it's not like i'm going to admit to anything but i'd just like to know what i should and shouldn't say about how i got the proof.
friedchicken Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 I don't know if I am really one to give someone advice considering the state my relationship is in but confront them first. If they don't admit it without you showing all your cards, let he/she know how you got it. I wouldn't think that they would press charges or sue you for getting the info like you did. I hope this helps.
alphamale Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 if he knew beforehand the voice recorder was there then its legal. if he didn't know he was being recorded then its illegal
Curmudgeon Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 my question is; is this legal? The laws vary from state-to-state. However, if you don't intend to use the tapes in court then I don't see a problem. Besides, if it's your car also you can put anything you want to in it.
Trimmer Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 Google "Can we tape" in quotes; look at the website that comes up as the first result. For the most part it's state law that guides you here. In general, you'll find that some states require the consent of all parties involved in a conversation; other states require the consent of at least one party involved in a conversation. Many of these laws focus on recording telephone conversations, but often include other scenarios, like face-to-face conversations and hidden camera recordings, often with the condition that the law applies if the parties have a "reasonable expectation" of privacy. Anyway - check your state...
Lizzie60 Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 after spending the last year feeling like a bull with all the red flags waving at me, i finally broke down and got the proof i needed by using a voice recorder in my spouse's car. my question is; is this legal? it's not like i'm going to admit to anything but i'd just like to know what i should and shouldn't say about how i got the proof. I don't really know if, in a case like that, it's legal or not...but if I were you, I would confront him... then you can go with what's recorded in the machine... Let's say they stop at a place, you can say you were there and you saw them... it all depends on what's recorded... now that you got it, use it somehow.
Trimmer Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 The laws vary from state-to-state. However, if you don't intend to use the tapes in court then I don't see a problem. I would be careful with this. There are both federal and state laws that govern the disclosure of recorded conversations, but the pertinent state laws almost all make the act of recording itself - irrespective of what you do with the recording - illegal, if you (a) are not a party to the conversation, (b) don't have some kind of consent to record, and © you would not naturally overhear the conversation. This is a statement that pretty much covers the minimum situation across most states; different states will have different conditions and restrictions that go beyond this fundamental basis.
Curmudgeon Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 different states will have different conditions and restrictions that go beyond this fundamental basis. ...it would be wise to go here and check out your state's laws: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ A lot depends upon what you intend to do with the recording.
Lizzie60 Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 after spending the last year feeling like a bull with all the red flags waving at me, i finally broke down and got the proof i needed by using a voice recorder in my spouse's car. my question is; is this legal? it's not like i'm going to admit to anything but i'd just like to know what i should and shouldn't say about how i got the proof. Now that you have a proof... legal or not... keep it for yourself how you find out about his affair... bottom line...you found out.. now you need to decide what you're going to do about it. If you don,t want to say anything about it...don't..but just tell him that you KNOW...even if he denies it, you will NOT change your mind.. then file for divorce if that's what you want. Who cares if this is legal or not... you got what you were looking for... end of story... go from there.
Trimmer Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 ...it would be wise to go here and check out your state's laws: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ A lot depends upon what you intend to do with the recording. Yeah, that's the site I referenced above - I'm never sure whether we can directly post links, depending on ads, etc... And again, I respectfully differ with you on the "intent" thing. My reading (although I'm not a lawyer...) is that many of the laws make it a crime to record at all, irrespective of your intent. Yes, there are federal and state laws that cover subsequent disclosure of intercepted communications, but as for the basic state laws covering recording and interception, in the states I looked at, they all seemed to make it illegal just to do the act: California Penal Code: "It is a crime in California to intercept or eavesdrop upon any confidential communication, including a telephone call or wire communication, without the consent of all parties." Arizona Revised Statues: "Interception of a wire or electronic communication by an individual who is not a party, without the consent of someone who is a party to the communication, is a felony." Washington Revised Code: "All parties generally must consent to the interception or recording of any private communication, whether conducted by telephone, telegraph, radio or face-to-face, to comply with state law." Florida Statues: "All parties must consent to the recording or the disclosure of the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication in Florida. Recording or disclosing without the consent of all parties is a felony...." Don't mean to be prissy about it, but since the OP's original question was specific to the legality of it, it's important to be precise...
Curmudgeon Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 Don't mean to be prissy about it, but since the OP's original question was specific to the legality of it, it's important to be precise... I agree that precision is important. That's why I posted the link. If one were to be totally thorough, one would go first to the statute, then to case notes and rulings to determine judicial interpretation and the legislative intent of the original law. Taking California as an example, where I happen to live and also where I write law as part of my profession, under the circumstances, I'd make the recordings, listen to them, gleen what I could from them, destroy the tapes and confront the bastard without using direct quotes or specifics or divulging from whence the information came. Let him think you hired a private investigator or whatever other explanation his guilty (or not) mind wants to conjure up. It wouldn't really matter anyway becauser I'd send him packing.
Star Gazer Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 I would be careful with this. There are both federal and state laws that govern the disclosure of recorded conversations, but the pertinent state laws almost all make the act of recording itself - irrespective of what you do with the recording - illegal, if you (a) are not a party to the conversation, (b) don't have some kind of consent to record, and © you would not naturally overhear the conversation. This is a statement that pretty much covers the minimum situation across most states; different states will have different conditions and restrictions that go beyond this fundamental basis. Let me put it this way: Clients have come to me to request advice re: how to record someone. My advice is always the same. There are FAR too many factors involved, there is no brightline rule, and the law is continuously evolving in this area. I don't care what the circumstances are. Don't do it.
Sheba Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 Without reading the laws, I will point out this: legality of such recordings often relates to what use may be made of the recording. In other words, if you wanted to use the recording as "proof of adultery" in a divorce lawsuit, chances are you might be unable to do so. On the other hand, if you want to use the recording solely as proof of adultery in the context of your relationship, well, that may be perfectly legal. If it is a criminal offence in your state, is your spouse going to go to the police and say "arrest my wife/husband, who recorded me talking dirty to my lover"? I doubt it. Even if your spouse did, they might be laughed out of the police station. Police have better things to do. Besides, I am with the Curmudgeon. I would record, listen, destroy, file for divorce.
Trialbyfire Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 Hopefully, if some recordings accidentally end up in your possession, there will be information on them that might lead you to admissable proof of adultery...
pelagicsands Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 I bet James Bond has a licence to spool. I hope you didn't have to listen to any moaning sounds. I hate moaning.
Cool Breeze Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 I bet James Bond has a licence to spool. I hope you didn't have to listen to any moaning sounds. I hate moaning. Sorry, but have you ever been cheated on? This isn't funny. It's really rather heartbreaking if you're in the situation.
Trimmer Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Taking California as an example, where I happen to live and also where I write law as part of my profession, under the circumstances, I'd make the recordings, listen to them, gleen what I could from them, destroy the tapes and confront the bastard without using direct quotes or specifics or divulging from whence the information came. I yield to your experience - my comments are just based on a direct reading of the codes which say pretty concrete things like "It is a crime... to intercept or eavesdrop... without consent..." Why would you destroy the tapes?
Herzen Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 after spending the last year feeling like a bull with all the red flags waving at me, i finally broke down and got the proof i needed by using a voice recorder in my spouse's car. my question is; is this legal? it's not like i'm going to admit to anything but i'd just like to know what i should and shouldn't say about how i got the proof. Assuming you're a US resident, each state has its own criminal laws regarding electronic interception of private communications. I know that Pennsylvania, for example, has criminalized this conduct. Check the laws of your state. If the OP was recorded, you might find yourself sued for invasion of privacy, which is a tort--a civil wrong--where damages are paid if liability is proven. The chances of that happening are slight--all things considered.
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Why would you destroy the tapes? Because if they are not destroyed then they will be subject to the legal discovery process. In the event of an contested divorce the process of discovery will include an order to turn over any and all recordings made. It is a sweeping order made in discovery. Sure you could not turn them over but then you are breaking the law. If they are destroyed then you are not breaking any laws when asked about them in discovery.
Ripples Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Use the evidence you've got as motivation to get your position, as far as divorce/alimony/child support is concerned, in order. Go through the joint bank statements, the telephone bills etc. Find out what has been done, what money has been spent, how long it's been going on for. Get control of the situation before you blow anything apart. See a lawyer.
Herzen Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Because if they are not destroyed then they will be subject to the legal discovery process. In the event of an contested divorce the process of discovery will include an order to turn over any and all recordings made. It is a sweeping order made in discovery. Sure you could not turn them over but then you are breaking the law. If they are destroyed then you are not breaking any laws when asked about them in discovery. Please don't destroy the tapes. Destruction of the tapes could compound any criminal issues (obstruction of justice?) and lead to spoliation of evidence allegations in any civil proceeding. If the tapes exist, maintain them in a safe place. Please do not destroy them.
Art_Critic Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Please don't destroy the tapes. Destruction of the tapes could compound any criminal issues (obstruction of justice?) and lead to spoliation of evidence allegations in any civil proceeding. If the tapes exist, maintain them in a safe place. Please do not destroy them. You have taken my post out of context.. The tapes don't exist and I was posting to another posters question on why he would make the tapes, listen to them and then destroy them... the poster asked why destroy them. The tapes at the point of being made are yours to destroy.. There is no civil proceeding filed. Now if a civil proceeding is filed then you would be destroying evidence.. Now I know you are an attorney but tell me how destroying a tape that you make before any civil proceeding and your intent is to make it and destroy it then how is that obstruction of justice.
reef man Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 after spending the last year feeling like a bull with all the red flags waving at me, i finally broke down and got the proof i needed by using a voice recorder in my spouse's car. my question is; is this legal? it's not like i'm going to admit to anything but i'd just like to know what i should and shouldn't say about how i got the proof. Its legal to do for your own proof. I don't know if its legal to use in court in a divorce case, but its not illegal to do it for your own purposes.
Ladyjane14 Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 I'm with Ripples. Make another appointment with your attorney. Protect your kids and your assets. If it was me, I doubt I'd be terribly concerned about having taped her. I'm reckless like that though ... so if my spouse wanted to cheat on me and then make a case on 'how he got busted', he'd be welcomed to go for it. Frankly, I don't think it's necessary to tell her where your information came from. If anything, tell her it's none of her f*cking business how you found out. On a side note, in light of what you've been put through... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t115212/... I'm REALLY sickened once more by the absolutely disgusting behavior of the garden-variety adulterer. The only possible reasons for your WW to NOT come forward and tell the truth is so that she could ease her way past the settlement table without you knowing enough to adequately protect yourself, and so that she wouldn't have to face any condemnation for her betrayal. And in order to do that, she's left you wringing your hands in a state of confusion and BELIEVING her nonsense. Gaslighted. I honestly don't know how these people can live with themselves. Why would anyone CHOOSE to look in their mirror and only see a sniveling LIAR staring back? It's just grotesque. Anyway... Please don't waste another minute of your life on this. You've already put in 23 years. Consider it "time-served on a bad rap" and move on. You're only 40. There's time still to have ALOT of what you want out of life. Don't waste your energy on heartache. Use it instead to build something better for yourself. You might not think it's all that easy to manage your feelings, but you know what?... when you CHOOSE a proactive stance, when you CHOOSE to disallow regret, recrimination, and hard-feelings... you can shut it off like a leaky faucet. It's do-able. Your brain is just a much better version of your basic home computer. Every time the "wallowing file" pops-up... click the mouse and change pages. Let the OM have the heartache and bitterness that surrounds your WW like a miasma. Let him assume your former "sentence", while you go free. Read some posts by AzianPride. You'll see that there's hope on the horizon.
Herzen Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 You have taken my post out of context.. The tapes don't exist and I was posting to another posters question on why he would make the tapes, listen to them and then destroy them... the poster asked why destroy them. The tapes at the point of being made are yours to destroy.. There is no civil proceeding filed. Now if a civil proceeding is filed then you would be destroying evidence.. Now I know you are an attorney but tell me how destroying a tape that you make before any civil proceeding and your intent is to make it and destroy it then how is that obstruction of justice. You might be correct. I'm not a criminal attorney and I wasn't proffering a legal opinion--notice the parens and question mark. I still get very nervous, however, when tapes that may constitute evidence of illegally recorded conversations are destroyed. Call me old fashioned. The best route: don't surreptitiously record (ie, intercept) anyone's conversations. Instead, look at the cheating spouse's phone records, bank records and credit history. Affairs aren't cheap and there's often lots of cell phone chatter. Most often, that's all you need. The rest is just icing.
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