Best revenge on a cheating spouse...

[Trialbyfire]

I can easily understand his anger, especially since he lives with her physical presence daily. He stays for the children and maybe this is wrong, which he will correct, but I believe he still loves her.

 

The problem lies in that she hasn't given enough to convince him that she's remorseful or repentant. I happen to agree that there's more responsibility on her side to make the marriage work, than him, which includes convincing him of her continued consistency and love and her sincere apology of the betrayal. I can't imagine finding out years into a marriage that the one I held in the highest regard, ended up being nothing more than a liar. Not only that, but that the marriage could have been prevented if the truth had come out at that point in time. His life would have been very different, although I doubt he regrets his children.

 

That he's made no clear choice yet, is up to him. That he's trapped in a potential no-win situation, no matter what choice he makes, makes the choice difficult.

[whichwayisup]

I guess I'm just waiting for HC to realize that life isn't going to change until he decides that therapy has to happen. Until he decides it's time to let go of his anger and resentment and WANT to work on the marriage, talk to her and sort this out. I am a sucker (maybe) and have faith that he'll come around. Sure 8 months is a long time, for some, but for him, it's not. Until he is ready to take that first step, life is the way it is now.

 

Also, the assumptions that he is abusive, ready with a plate in his hand to throw across the room, or he's about to blow up at home anytime, is offbase. Noone knows what someone is like offline and in their daily dynamtic. HC probably is also one of those types of men anyway to keep things bottled up and takes a while before he opens up and talks. Maybe his if wife started the ball rolling, it would be easier on him, I dunno...All I know is bashing him and telling him he's acting like an a-hole is NOT going to help open him up or break him so he can finally sort out his marriage.

[crazy_grl]

HC/SC, I think your W is not doing her part to earn your trust back. She needs to be honest with you about what happened in the past so that you can learn to trust her again. She also needs to go out of her way to get things back the way they were. As long as you're wondering what she's lied to you about and she's being so self-absorbed that she accuses you of cheating just for going to the gym, I don't see how you can get over this hostility you have.

 

Does your W know how much this has hurt you? I ask because the way you talk about her, it's as though she thinks this is no big deal. Is that how you think she feels? If so, I can see why you'd have a hard time letting go of the hostility. I would too.

 

I agree with others that since you chose to stay, you should do your part to forgive her. But why should you be expected to be nearly super human while your W should be forgiven for her mistakes. Why should you do most of the work? I don't agree that it should be 50/50 effort when it comes to one party cheating. The cheater should be putting in 75% or more.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be able to get this concept through to your W on your own. I think you need a counselor to do that. Since you're against counseling, I think your W will continue in her self-absorbed behavior and you'll continue to be feel resentment for her. Maybe you can find a way to make her understand this on your own, but it's pretty clear that your current course is not working.

[Tomcat33]

NID I don't know if I'm a "trooper" but I know pain when I see it. Anger is just another way to mask pain, deep pain. SC really knows how to get under people's skin at times but for some reason I try to understand him, because I can see that he is suffering. You just cannot seperate who you are on here from who you are in reality.

 

That's nonsense that we can't assume he is angry given his actions here his actions here speak quite loud and until he has to come to terms with that he will not move forward. His anger stunts him, his pain stunts him and the reason I keep suggesting he "practice" here playing level headed is because if he can achieve that then he can start to open up to the idea that he can do what HE needs to do to be more accepting of his W. there is no point in his W giving everything she needs to give in order for him to trust again if he is not receptive to her actions. If his actions here are any idication of how unreceptive he is to simply try to understand, then it's safe to say he is not being acepting at all of what his W gives.

 

On the flip side affair or no affair, yes his W nees to really focus on doing her best to prove herself but no one in their right mind no matter HOW WRONG they were in their actions and who needs to redeem themselves will put up with giving to someone who does not wish to receive, it's a dynamic that is virtually impossible to achieve in a healthy manner.

 

 

 

 

I guess I'm just waiting for HC to realize that life isn't going to change until he decides that therapy has to happen. Until he decides it's time to let go of his anger and resentment and WANT to work on the marriage, talk to her and sort this out. I am a sucker (maybe) and have faith that he'll come around. Sure 8 months is a long time, for some, but for him, it's not. Until he is ready to take that first step, life is the way it is now.

 

 

That's all fine and I can appreciate it may not be time for him yet, but at this rate it may never be long enough for him. I hope we don't read posts from SC a year down the road in then "Second chances" forum that read "I screwed up big time how do I win my W back, she left me and now I realise I could have done more"

 

I have been reading a LOT of posts of people on both ends of affairs, not just here on LS but on other sites, and on the side of the BS there is anger, certainly there is anger, fear, resentment, mistrust and all the emotions that go along with being betrayed, but I don't see the level of anger that SC manifests here, he is not well, and he may think he is handling it well by working out or walking out of the room when his W wants to "start something" or that he does not want to fight but ends up in a fight anyway "because she started it and SHE wanted to fight" that's how he kids himself into thinking that he can do no wrong and the CHEATER creates all the problems, well it doesn't s work that way. Yes she cheated, yes he is filled with resentment because he was tricked into a marriage with someone who lied to him, but no that does not give him the card blanche to have it ALL his way. Sorry I don't believe that at all and that to me is abuse. If you choose to stay with someone that did you wrong and you resist working through the problem, then you stay for revenge.

 

never mind therapy, that might be a possibility down the road but most importantly he has to be willing to give his part. All I keep reading from him is "I gave everything I could, NO MORE now it's time for me"well if that's the attitude there is NO way it can ever work because he still needs to give. Yes do everything you can for yourself HC but that doesn't mean you abandon your duty as the other half of the partnership, be it in communication, support and emotional connection. And you can do it in baby steps, I don't see baby steps I don't see any step for that matter. If you find that you cannot bring yourself to do it alone because your resentment impedes you then you need to reach out for help for REAL help. Telling him "yeah come on out and vent and throw your vile comments around at all the wrong doers..."to me is not helping him in the least, it's helping him to fuel his anger and all that does is stunt him even more.

 

And I am certain he is angry at home, I don't need more prove than what I see here.

[michelangelo]

NID I don't know if I'm a "trooper" but I know pain when I see it. Anger is just another way to mask pain, deep pain. SC really knows how to get under people's skin at times but for some reason I try to understand him, because I can see that he is suffering. You just cannot seperate who you are on here from who you are in reality.

 

 

And I am certain he is angry at home, I don't need more prove than what I see here.

 

So using your logic, are you an overly verbose expert on other people's inner thoughts and behavior in all parts of your life?

 

Are you saying you never express other facets of your personality in other settings?

 

I think not.

 

I say and do thinks at work that differ from what I say and do at home, and in other social settings such as a discussion board.

 

I am quite sure we all behave differently in church or court, or family dinners.

 

HC's obvious pain and anger are expressed here sometimes with a searing intensity that some don't like to see.

 

But for me, I kinda like that he feels safe enough here to do that.

[whichwayisup]

But TC, he is said to you and others, over and over again that he isn't like this at home. He avoids conflict, (minus the fight recently, but so what? Couples fight, no big deal) and he said he joined a gym so he CAN work off that frustration and negative energy so he doesn't bring it home. You seem to be the one who doesn't want to believe that.

 

If your logic is true, then you are very judgement, argumentive in real life. It's your way or the highway and if someone disagrees with you or says something you don't like, you jump at them. Now, yes, I am assuming that is what you are like because of how you are on LS, how you present yourself in general.

 

I honestly think telling HC how you think he is at home is only going to piss him off more and more...TC, he started opening up to you lastnight, you got him to talk out what was going on inside him. You showed compassion and heard what he said, you identified with him. That is the type of help he needs, not to be argued with and told how he 'should' feel. He is who he is and until he's ready to face things at home, LS is all he has.

[Tomcat33]

So using your logic, are you an overly verbose expert on other people's inner thoughts and behavior in all parts of your life?

 

Are you saying you never express other facets of your personality in other settings?

 

I think not.

 

I say and do thinks at work that differ from what I say and do at home, and in other social settings such as a discussion board.

 

I am quite sure we all behave differently in church or court, or family dinners.

 

HC's obvious pain and anger are expressed here sometimes with a searing intensity that some don't like to see.

 

But for me, I kinda like that he feels safe enough here to do that.

 

As a matter of fact yes I am overly verbose, I write how I think. And sometimes I am very pragmatic and write and speak in very short thoughts.

 

As per your last comment which I bolded in your quote my answer is:

Yes, pedophiles feel safe to come online and do their preying on children, it's amazing what a warm accomodating place the internet can be.

(an by no means was I comapring SC to a pedophile it was and example to show that behind a computer everyone feels safe ie. it doesn't take much to get behind a computer and let it all hang out)

 

I''m sure there are different facets to his behaviour, you see it here when he posts. On some topics or posts which do not relate directly to his situation he is capable of voiving his thoughts in a more tame manner, in other words he uses the civil aspect of his character that Im sure he manifests in civil places. But when ever he posts to people who are betraying or to the complices of betrayel is when we see a very angry side of him. So if people who mean nothing to him bring out this much animosity, I can only imagine what it does to see his W every day, feeling as he.

 

Look I think he knows where we're coming from even if he denies it here, which he will, I think he is somewhat aware and I think in time it will sink in and he will admit this to himself fully. So much so that he will want to make a change for his own good, there is only so much you can bang your head against a wall and not have the pain get to you. HE carries a lot of pain within, and coming here is an good start a good outlet for it but he is going about it an unconstructive way sometimes by inflicting his pain on to others. Living like that can only destroy you, if he can't do it for his family he will do it for his own well being, there is only so much you can live under a state of distress before it catches up with you. And the thing about anger is that after time, it does not pick and choose when it has to come out, if just comes out. That will be the wake up call for him. but I am a firm believer that the wake-up call has to come from within, somethin nothing people say can

[Tomcat33]

But TC, he is said to you and others, over and over again that he isn't like this at home. He avoids conflict, (minus the fight recently, but so what? Couples fight, no big deal) .

 

 

HE DOESN'T avoid conlfict!!! this whole thread started with him saying that he ended up in a big fight over the gym. If you avoid conflict how do you end up in a fight, PLEEEEEASE Oh but because he doesn't "start"a fight we should consider that he avoids conflict. Avoiding conlfict is just that, AVOID, if you end up in a big fight you did nothing to avoid it, please you did your share to FIGHT!

 

And yes I do like to debate, I love it in fact. I learn debating, so yes how I am here is how I am real life.

 

WWI and you flip flop with every post, a few pages back you were encouraging to come on here and get angry, so please before you give me advice on how I should deal woith him might want to consider your own actions.

[michelangelo]

 

As per your last comment which I bolded in your quote my answer is:

Yes, pedophiles feel safe to come online and do their preying on children, it's amazing what a warm accomodating place the internet can be.

(an by no means was I comapring SC to a pedophile it was and example to show that behind a computer everyone feels safe ie. it doesn't take much to get behind a computer and let it all hang out)

 

 

I find it rather interesting that of all the comparisons you could come up with you use this one. Even as you deny comparing his anger being safely expressed here on LS to pedophiles using the internet, you imply that he is somehow a predator here.

 

I would think that a different comparison would have been apt.

 

That said, back to the thread.

 

HC is only 8 months from what a lot of folks call DDay. Most sources I know of say it takes a year or two OR MORE to move from this angry response.

 

I'm thinking that folks who post here are aware of that, and if not, they soon are.

 

We all are in different stages of life here. He will progress, as I will, as you might.

[whichwayisup]

She suckered him into the fight and yeah, so what, he gave in. You're acting like he beat the crap out of her! She pushed his buttons and he reacted, he had enough. I'm sure they'll have afew more fights in the future, and I think that's a good thing. It clears the air and things get solved. Maybe them fighting abit will push HER into communicating with him and him to communicate with her.

[Tomcat33]

I find it rather interesting that of all the comparisons you could come up with you use this one. Even as you deny comparing his anger being safely expressed here on LS to pedophiles using the internet, you imply that he is somehow a predator here.

 

I would think that a different comparison would have been apt.

 

That said, back to the thread.

 

HC is only 8 months from what a lot of folks call DDay. Most sources I know of say it takes a year or two OR MORE to move from this angry response.

 

I'm thinking that folks who post here are aware of that, and if not, they soon are.

 

We all are in different stages of life here. He will progress, as I will, as you might.

 

Listen it was and example totally unrelated to HIM that I drew to express how safe the internet is. I explained it for people like yourself, who would take the example and run with it missing the point. And I did right, because you missed the point.

 

And yeah "sources" say a lot of things but if you add resistance to that consider your sources out to lunch with their predictions. The time frame that is quoted by those who are in the know take into consideration people who, although are struggling with it, at least are trying to take the right steps to get past things. I just don't see SC trying, he has stunted himself in a place of exteme pain and that is paralazing him and the progress of the situation.

[michelangelo]

Listen it was and example totally unrelated to HIM that I drew to express how safe the internet is. I explained it for people like yourself, who would take the example and run with it missing the point. And I did right, because you missed the point.

 

And yeah "sources" say a lot of things but if you add resistance to that consider your sources out to lunch with their predictions. The time frame that is quoted by those who are in the know take into consideration people who, although are struggling with it, at least are trying to take the right steps to get past things. I just don't see SC trying, he has stunted himself in a place of exteme pain and that is paralazing him and the progress of the situation.

 

I don't believe I missed the point, I just see you as a very clever obfuscater.

 

I also believe that HC is on the right path towards defusing his anger. He seeks the truth and he's venting.

[Tomcat33]

She suckered him into the fight and yeah, so what, he gave in. You're acting like he beat the crap out of her! She pushed his buttons and he reacted, he had enough. I'm sure they'll have afew more fights in the future, and I think that's a good thing. It clears the air and things get solved. Maybe them fighting abit will push HER into communicating with him and him to communicate with her.

 

Nahh no no...you don't get "suckered" into a fight, you sucker yourself into it. Gees is the guy accountable for anything at all? Because we all know his W did the rotten thing but c'mon already, it takes two and you enable him like he is entitled to do things wrong because she cheated. Are you on his side or not? Because I really don't see how you are helping him? It's the same thing you would do to him in other threads when people would ask him to stop being so beligerent and you would encourage him "to let his anger out here with strangers because it's better than doing it at home in front of the children"

 

At the end of the day I am a big girl insults really don't get to me from strangers, insults get to me from the people I love and look up to, and Im sure many people would share that thought BUT for the sake what SC is going through and how he lashes out at times it doesn't hurt to nudge him to practice understanding, it will work with him a lot further than anger will. That's my take on things....

[michelangelo]

.... it doesn't hurt to nudge him to practice understanding, it will work with him a lot further than anger will. That's my take on things....

 

Nudge, would that work on you?

[Tomcat33]

I don't believe I missed the point, I just see you as a very clever obfuscater.

 

I also believe that HC is on the right path towards defusing his anger. He seeks the truth and he's venting.

 

 

I think my points are pretty clear actually, I do tend to tell it like I see it.

 

I guess that's what perception is all about, what we think is true to our sight. I don't see him on the right path in fact I see him on the side of the path stiff as board incapable of moving drowning in pain. That's my perception.

 

Hey I'm all for venting and purging and getting it out, I think that's fantastic. What I don't see very productive is to inflict that venting onto others, and he does have a tendency to do that with other people who are in similar places as his W/OM was. I just don't see the positive in that, those other human beings are not his W or the men she cheated on with him. Am I really that out of touch by seeing that?

 

It's one things to purge and to vent the pain/anger and it's another to try to pass it on to others.

[Tomcat33]

Nudge, would that work on you?

 

 

 

 

I'm not in a crisis situation am I? , but when I was the nudges were well welcomed. Exactly what do I need to understand?

[whichwayisup]

I think my points are pretty clear actually, I do tend to tell it like I see it.

 

That's fine, but that doesn't mean you're right.

 

I'm not in a crisis situation amd I? , but when I was the nudges were well welcomed. Exactly what do I need to understand?

 

Now you missed michelangelo's point.

[michelangelo]

I think my points are pretty clear actually, I do tend to tell it like I see it.

 

 

Then why sidetrack your point with comments about pedophiles?

 

I

I guess that's what perception is all about, what we think is true to our sight. I don't see him on the right path in fact I see him on the side of the path stiff as board incapable of moving drowning in pain. That's my perception.

 

So way does it bother you that so much that he expresses his life differently than yourself? Why is his path an expression of an incapacity? I don't see that.

 

Hey I'm all for venting and purging and getting it out, I think that's fantastic. What I don't see very productive is to inflict that venting onto others, and he does have a tendency to do that with other people who are in similar places as his W/OM was. I just don't see the positive in that, those other human beings are not his W or the men she cheated on with him. Am I really that out of touch by seeing that?

 

It's one things to purge and to vent the pain/anger and it's another to try to pass it on to others.

 

This is the crux of the matter for you. I've answered my own question. It bothers you that he makes you feel uncomfortable about your own life's path.

[whichwayisup]

It's one things to purge and to vent the pain/anger and it's another to try to pass it on to others.

 

And it's up to you if you let what he says affect you or get suckered into how he vents on LS.

 

Your words

Nahh no no...you don't get "suckered" into a fight, you sucker yourself into it.

can be applied here to you ya know. I'm just sayin'. You give it out just as much.....

[Tomcat33]

That's fine, but that doesn't mean you're right.

 

 

 

Now you missed michelangelo's point.

 

 

Did I say I was right? My comment was in refernce to HIS comment that: I just see you as a very clever obfuscater

wich essentially means I a give clouded convoluted thoughts with no direction (in not so many words)

 

WWIU you fixate on this "right and wrong" nonsense, there is no right or wrong there is just differing views that could be accepeted or dismissed, that's all. Why do you ALWAYS fixate on who's right or wrong? If it were as simple as that there would be no problems.

 

If SC or anyone for that matter ME INCLUDED, who walks away from a discussion taking something onboard and it can actually help them for the better that's far more important than a petty "right or wrong"

 

How old are we again?

 

What was his point?

[Jinxx]

Not that anyone really cares but this is what I think.... HC/SC refuses to take a good long look at himself to see what he did to cause his wife to stray. He is perfect. He treats her like a queen. We've all heard that he is such a wonderful husband and father and would give her anything. He doesn't do anything wrong that would cause his wife to seek comfort elsewhere.

 

HC/SC comes here to vent so he can put on the "happy face" and pretend everything is ok at home. None of us really know what his homelife is like or what his wife is really feeling. I don't buy it and the truth is, his kids are not dumb. They pick up everything and he is ignorant to think otherwise. They know when mom and dad are having problems. Bottom line -- both of them need professional help. Only a therapist can get to the root of the problem. But he doesn't believe in therapy. He'd rather come here and spit his venom at some of us who actually might understand what his wife is going through and could possibly help him with his problems. But that is too hard for him to accept and understand. Must be a pride or ego man thing. Sometimes you have to be willing to put your pride aside and move forward. HC/SC cannot do that until he can let go of his pent up anger. Yes, going to the gym helps but it is not a permanent solution to his problem.

[michelangelo]

Did I say I was right? My comment was in refernce to HIS comment that: I just see you as a very clever obfuscater

wich essentially means I a give clouded convoluted thoughts with no direction (in not so many words)

 

WWIU you fixate on this "right and wrong" nonsense, there is no right or wrong there is just differing views that could be accepeted or dismissed, that's all. Why do you ALWAYS fixate on who's right or wrong? If it were as simple as that there would be no problems.

 

If SC or anyone for that matter ME INCLUDED, who walks away from a discussion taking something onboard and it can actually help them for the better that's far more important than a petty "right or wrong"

 

How old are we again?

 

What was his point?

 

My point with the "nudge' comment, besides being a little flippant (which, BTW, I do think you got but sidestepped), is that nobody likes to be nudged towards an understanding of a thing that they do not share in.

 

Not HC, not you, not me for that matter.

[Trialbyfire]

Not that anyone really cares but this is what I think.... HC/SC refuses to take a good long look at himself to see what he did to cause his wife to stray. He is perfect. He treats her like a queen. We've all heard that he is such a wonderful husband and father and would give her anything. He doesn't do anything wrong that would cause his wife to seek comfort elsewhere.

His wife sought solace previous to marriage. If her needs weren't being met by him, why get married?

 

Also, she did not seek solace within the marriage, therefore, she wasn't unhappy with him.

[Tomcat33]

Then why sidetrack your point with comments about pedophiles?

 

 

 

So way does it bother you that so much that he expresses his life differently than yourself? Why is his path an expression of an incapacity? I don't see that.

 

 

 

This is the crux of the matter for you. I've answered my own question. It bothers you that he makes you feel uncomfortable about your own life's path.

 

And it's up to you if you let what he says affect you or get suckered into how he vents on LS.

 

Your words

 

 

Oh gimme a break you two!! He doesn't affect ME personally, I am not in a frame of mind that is vulnerable, so his comments really don;t get to me personally, I am here trying to help him aren't I? But there are plenty of posts where he just jumps in to attack the people posting about their problems and it's his way of venting his "issues" on complete strangers who are IN DISTRESS cheaters or not, scum or not, they are human beings in distress and NO ONE should have to be subjected to that, when someone is down and reaching out for help why sit there and on top of it make them feel like bigger peice of s@@t?

 

In the case of SC I'm sure more people would be willing to reach out to him if he so wanted it that way, but it's hard to do when he is so angry. And you know something... just seeing how resistant he is here I can imagine how resistant he is being to even the minimal gestures his W "might" be willing to extend (I say might beacause these are my own conclusions based on what I see here). Really people you don't have to have a PHD in psychology to see that.

 

 

I can look past his anger because I am in the right frame of mind to deal with it I am not in distress or vulnerable, though I must admit he gets my goat at times...he knows how to wind people up, but whatever, I prefer his honesty to some other posters but that's just me. But to some others it's just unecessarily harsh and all in the name of what? venting his anger because his W deceived him? C'mon...what sense does that make, make others feel pain for my pain? I don't buy into that sorry...and it's not good for him either. It really isn't, but he has to see it himself.

[michelangelo]

Not that anyone really cares but this is what I think.... HC/SC refuses to take a good long look at himself to see what he did to cause his wife to stray. He is perfect. He treats her like a queen. We've all heard that he is such a wonderful husband and father and would give her anything. He doesn't do anything wrong that would cause his wife to seek comfort elsewhere.

 

HC/SC comes here to vent so he can put on the "happy face" and pretend everything is ok at home. None of us really know what his homelife is like or what his wife is really feeling. I don't buy it and the truth is, his kids are not dumb. They pick up everything and he is ignorant to think otherwise. They know when mom and dad are having problems. Bottom line -- both of them need professional help. Only a therapist can get to the root of the problem. But he doesn't believe in therapy. He'd rather come here and spit his venom at some of us who actually might understand what his wife is going through and could possibly help him with his problems. But that is too hard for him to accept and understand. Must be a pride or ego man thing. Sometimes you have to be willing to put your pride aside and move forward. HC/SC cannot do that until he can let go of his pent up anger. Yes, going to the gym helps but it is not a permanent solution to his problem.

 

Maybe HC can use some internal reflection, but I don't think it is out of line for him to believe his wife's selfishness caused her to cheat. Sure there are dynamics to their relationship as in any relationship that could be identified as contributors to her thought processes she used to justify her actions.

 

Maybe some day HC will arrive at another place than where he is emotionally and will conclude another way than at present. But for now, he is not. I don't want to drive him away for that.