We're all done

[ilmw]

I feel for your pain. I can't even imagine what your going through right now. You just have to accept the fact that this guy may not even be there for you during the birth of your child. If he does then great if not just plan it on your own. Maybe have a relative or a friend stand in instead. Please remain strong for your baby and your kids. They only have you.

 

My younger son does the same thing. I had to take care of him today and he told me I want to go to my mommy's house. It breaks my heart to hear those words. But he's a little boy and doesn't understand the situation. Same with your kids. Kids are untainted when they are young. It hurts for me to see that their mommy and daddy are no longer together. I know it will affect them deeply when they grow up. All we could do is be the best single parent for them.

 

So my dear stand strong. Keep venting. We're here for you.

 

Good post AP,

 

much more positive than mine...

 

Mamma...

 

" I'm heartened that you realized that your father was a jerk for leaving your family when/how he did. Did your mother influence that realization, or was it totally your own when you were old enough to understand? My sister thinks my kids will come to their own realizations about H on their own without my input (I won't bash him) but I'm really concerned that since they're so young they won't 'get' what's going on and take it as they weren't good enough or something. I don't need to worry about this yet, one thing at a time, i know. But I've only found one book on parenting and divorce and the book seems to think that both parents have equal interest in the good of the children."

 

My mother did bash my father... but not often.. It was when she was fed up.. tired.. and having to raise 3 boys on her own...

 

My father would show up once and a while... and take us out for pizza.. and that would, it seems to me... all he did... and that would make it all right. I for one... never got over him leaving.. and it was or has been a curse.. for me.

 

I started my adult life... having to prove... to me.. that I could get into a relationship and MAKE it work.. This train of thought... made me stay in relationships that I should not have... staying in those relationships... made me get burned... causing more confusion..

 

I can't say this kind of reaction happens to everyone.. but I do know.. my older brother... is still "clinically depressed".. my younger brother had...anger issues.. when he was a teen... and Sh*t... I ran away and joined the army in England.. at 16.

 

Divorce... is a terrible thing... and absentee fathers.. just make it worse.. on the kids.

 

I for one.. no matter what happens... will always be there for my son... and for that matter.. my step son too... as I have been there for him since he was 5... all he has to do ...is ask.

[Ladyjane14]

Part of my concern with this divorce is that my children will idolize their father (as he did with his dad) since they (probably) won't have much contact with him.

 

I think if I were you, Mamma... I'd line up some family counseling for after the baby's birth. Frankly, I just don't know WHAT you can say to kids when they're that small.

:confused:

But I do know that I wouldn't be comfortable with normalizing emotional abandonment. I wouldn't want my kids growing up thinking that's okay.

 

There's just GOT to be a line somewhere between authorizing bad behavior and bashing an absentee parent. Perhaps a well-trained professional is what you need to help you find it.

 

There's time though. Expend your energy on the upcoming birth and recovery for right now.

It usually take a few weeks to get counseling set up, So you might want to call within about a week of when you get home from the hospital and start the ball rolling.

[sumdude]

I think if I were you, Mamma... I'd line up some family counseling for after the baby's birth. Frankly, I just don't know WHAT you can say to kids when they're that small.

:confused:

But I do know that I wouldn't be comfortable with normalizing emotional abandonment. I wouldn't want my kids growing up thinking that's okay.

 

There's just GOT to be a line somewhere between authorizing bad behavior and bashing an absentee parent. Perhaps a well-trained professional is what you need to help you find it.

 

There's time though. Expend your energy on the upcoming birth and recovery for right now.

It usually take a few weeks to get counseling set up, So you might want to call within about a week of when you get home from the hospital and start the ball rolling.

 

 

I don't have kids but it always seems to me that honesty is the best policy. They can tell what's going on better than we realise. If we teach them to pretend everything is okay when it's a disaster that could be a bad message. Of course we don't them to be out of control with emotions either.

[mammax3]

I was thinking of counselling of some sort too, I had hoped H could attend to (when he comes home...for visits...? Unrealisitc, I think) so we could figure out how to do co-parenting. I still don't think he's particularly interested in maintaining physical contact with the kids, he's said that he'll pay for them (damn right!) but I don't know how much beyond that.

 

I do think I'll need some IC in a family way, since I need to find the line. I'm as honest with my 4yo as I can be, and still maintain some parental authority, but he asks insightful questions and if I say I don't know, he says "Just tell me, okay?" like he's ready to hear, even if I'm not ready to say!

 

H called tonight, and I asked what's going on. He is coming home for the baby's birth, and he'll stay for a few days. I asked about what his plans are out there (apt, job etc) and he seemed irritated at my Q's and said he needs to work overtime so he can get the time off to come out. I asked if his job wasn't allowing him to come, and he said yes, but they're not paying him. He acted like it was all my fault that he needs to 'come out'. He didn't mention the birth nor did he ask to speak to the kids. I offered, and he said Yah, Sure... but my 4yo didn't want to talk to him.

 

Anyway. I'm beginning to harden up right now (probably will change tomorrow!!) and really see what the lot of you have been saying/seeing for the last month. He is being a total jerk and is just wimping out on his family. I think these next few months will be ridiculously hard - probably the hardest in my life - but I don't need someone pulling me down, and the kids while we all try to swim. I'm still sad that the relationship is ending, but I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel (just a bare glow) and that me and my kids will be better off without him.

 

Thank you! The birthdate is approaching fast and I'm nesting like crazy! I'm getting rid of his stuff (holy boxes Batman!) and decluttering like crazy and it's feeling good. My body's tired but I'm clear and getting excited for this new life!

[ilmw]

I was thinking of counselling of some sort too, I had hoped H could attend to (when he comes home...for visits...? Unrealisitc, I think) so we could figure out how to do co-parenting. I still don't think he's particularly interested in maintaining physical contact with the kids, he's said that he'll pay for them (damn right!) but I don't know how much beyond that.

 

I do think I'll need some IC in a family way, since I need to find the line. I'm as honest with my 4yo as I can be, and still maintain some parental authority, but he asks insightful questions and if I say I don't know, he says "Just tell me, okay?" like he's ready to hear, even if I'm not ready to say!

 

H called tonight, and I asked what's going on. He is coming home for the baby's birth, and he'll stay for a few days. I asked about what his plans are out there (apt, job etc) and he seemed irritated at my Q's and said he needs to work overtime so he can get the time off to come out. I asked if his job wasn't allowing him to come, and he said yes, but they're not paying him. He acted like it was all my fault that he needs to 'come out'. He didn't mention the birth nor did he ask to speak to the kids. I offered, and he said Yah, Sure... but my 4yo didn't want to talk to him.

 

Anyway. I'm beginning to harden up right now (probably will change tomorrow!!) and really see what the lot of you have been saying/seeing for the last month. He is being a total jerk and is just wimping out on his family. I think these next few months will be ridiculously hard - probably the hardest in my life - but I don't need someone pulling me down, and the kids while we all try to swim. I'm still sad that the relationship is ending, but I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel (just a bare glow) and that me and my kids will be better off without him.

 

Thank you! The birthdate is approaching fast and I'm nesting like crazy! I'm getting rid of his stuff (holy boxes Batman!) and decluttering like crazy and it's feeling good. My body's tired but I'm clear and getting excited for this new life!

 

I thought I would say this before I hit the sack...

 

You are one hell of a lady..

 

Take care of you...

 

ilmw

[PWSX3]

Thank you! The birthdate is approaching fast and I'm nesting like crazy! I'm getting rid of his stuff (holy boxes Batman!) and decluttering like crazy and it's feeling good. My body's tired but I'm clear and getting excited for this new life!

Be careful, when my W started the nesting stuff she had our son the next day..

But then you should know since this isn't your first.

 

By the way, remember I get first dibs on the tools....

[mammax3]

Thanks ilmw!

I keep thinking of what you and some of the other Men on LS say about wanting/needing an independant and strong woman (maybe especially in the instance if she has 3 kids?) so that's my goal. I wasn't particulary needy in our relationship, but there was an amount of co-dependancy probably due to the fact that we began our R when we were young (20 yo) and it was mostly immature. I think being 'mature' now (30 yo! ) I can embrace my strength and eventually be in a relationship in a new, different way than this one... I know I've got a long road, and reading your posts ilmw about the new dating world, it'll stay long for a while!!

 

PWSX3!! Thanks for the reminder! I had forgotten! I was surprised by the amount of tools in the garage. I won't forget again!

[PWSX3]

I was also married at a young age & like Gunny has preached many of times, we have know idea what marriage is really about, we are just "in love"!!

 

I feel we start depending on each other to much, take for what they do for granted.

 

I started a new job this week & the first thing our manager told us is we will be trained in all areas, that we will be able to do any job if we are asked & I feel we need that in a relationship as well.

 

We need to be able to do anything on our own, that we can't rely on someone else. You never know, tomorrow that person might not be there & then what do you do?

 

Someone told me that your spouse isn't there to make you happy, they are there to share your life with you...& I really believe that now.

 

You are doing a great job, learning what you need to do.

 

I wish you the best & make sure & let us know when that little one comes into the world!!!

[Ladyjane14]

H called tonight, and I asked what's going on. He is coming home for the baby's birth, and he'll stay for a few days. I asked about what his plans are out there (apt, job etc) and he seemed irritated at my Q's and said he needs to work overtime so he can get the time off to come out. I asked if his job wasn't allowing him to come, and he said yes, but they're not paying him. He acted like it was all my fault that he needs to 'come out'. He didn't mention the birth nor did he ask to speak to the kids. I offered, and he said Yah, Sure... but my 4yo didn't want to talk to him.

 

What a POS.

 

It always amazes me. You watch and see... later on he'll be blaming you for turning the kids against him, when it's more than OBVIOUS that it's him who's doing it. Even at age 4, your son knows intuitively that Daddy is wrong.

 

Uuuuggggghhhhh!!!! It makes me wish I had on steel-toe boots and your STBXH's ass bent over in front of me.

 

Anyway... his guilt will make him mean. Look at it from the "wayward" POV. If he were to soften his stance, it would threaten his resolve.

 

Magic pussy will only take a guy so far. In losing you and his family dynamic, his losses are more substantial than you would think. He may want to ignore the ten years you spent together... but he can't. He knows your favorite song, your favorite color, your favorite dish. He knows all the inside jokes you had together, quoted lines from movies... all that stuff. Little personal details that pop up unexpectedly. If your favorite flower is the tulip, do you honestly think he can see one without remembering you?

 

His resolve is threatened by all of that. Hell, you can name this new baby after your last boyfriend if you want, and there's not a damn thing he can say about it if you do. He's lost all that. His son doesn't WANT to talk to him. He's losing that too.

 

To be honest with you... I wouldn't do a THING to make this easier for him. I wouldn't offer him "friendship". I wouldn't invite him to counseling. NOTHING. I'd let him be an observer, standing outside looking in on the life he used to have. Because even if you would NEVER take him back at this point, maybe this would burn off some of the arrogance from around him and make him grateful for any small thing you decide in the future to share with him.

 

You are an AWESOME person.

Don't forget it for even a minute. It's his loss. Because women of your caliber don't come along often. Let him stew.

[mammax3]

You guys are terrific. Thanks so much for all your kind words and encouraging sentiments. I keep them tucked in my pocket and pull them out when I need a lift.

 

I hear what you're saying PWSX3, about only marrying for love, without really getting what it's about. But I'd marry for love again (vs, what some older family members have done on their 2nd and 3rd marriages) but go in with a bit more of a 'realistic' mentality. I still think that it's okay to rely on another person, I think that it shouldn't be to the exclusion of knowing what's going on - like with finances, or children, let's say. I think that both members should know how to do everything, like your new job.

 

I've been thinking about your post, LJ, and the irritation that he showed yesterday seems to me to be a defense mechanism (am I late on picking that up?) because he's scared of coming 'home', and not too sure what the reception will be like. I'm not to sure how I'll recieve him, either, actually! So he's gearing up and getting agitated about it and taking it out on me. NOT like I think it's okay. And not that I'll sit for any sh*t that he'll dole out, but it helps to put it in perspective, I think. It gives me a sense of being in a controlling position. I could make this as easy or as hard on him as I'd like. I'm just beginning to see that. He has *NO* clue which way i'll tip.

 

I'm not that nervous (yet, I'm sure that'll change next week!) to see him, but I think it'll be hard. I hope I don't cry! Anyway, that's all next week stuff. One day at a time.

 

I just wanted to say thank you and that you're all so great

[annabelle75]

I rarely post in this thread but I read it daily. Some times I try to post something but its just too hard. I have been brought to tears reading about this man and his coldness to his wife and children. Its hard for me to imagine anyone ever being able to justify this kind of behavior. How does he live with himself?

 

My heart breaks for your kids. They deserve a better father and you deserved a better husband.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[GreenEyedLady]

 

Mammax...Listen to this...the kids WILL see...they don't even have to be that old...

 

Mine are 8 and 5 (almost six)...I left my XH when my youngest was 2 (he was not heterosexual)...he used to be real good about taking the kids according to the visitation schedule...but it has greatly dwindled...it's only 4 days out of the month now...

 

A colleague of mine told me that my son and her son were talking in her classroom about how often they see their dad (her H took a job out of state and they are waiting until the end of the school year to join them)...and my son said,"I don't see mine very much anymore, but he doesn't live very far away."

 

The kids KNOW...they will see how hard you work for them...and while they will always love the other parent, they know the one they can count on...

 

(((HUGS)))

[Ladyjane14]

....the irritation that he showed yesterday seems to me to be a defense mechanism (am I late on picking that up?) because he's scared of coming 'home', and not too sure what the reception will be like.

 

I imagine he's petrified.

I hope he's eating five tubes of Rolaids every day, just thinking about it. Lord knows, he's still getting off light. He's not the one who has to deliver an entire human being from their UTERUS!!! And then take that little human home and raise him/her to adulthood ALONE.

 

What a coward.

 

I'm not to sure how I'll recieve him, either, actually! So he's gearing up and getting agitated about it and taking it out on me. NOT like I think it's okay. And not that I'll sit for any sh*t that he'll dole out, but it helps to put it in perspective, I think. It gives me a sense of being in a controlling position. I could make this as easy or as hard on him as I'd like. I'm just beginning to see that. He has *NO* clue which way i'll tip.

 

I'm glad you're recognizing the strength you have.

 

Hell, I'd have my entire family waiting there at that hospital.. picking their teeth with their pocket knives. Granny too!

[mum2three]

Hell, I'd have my entire family waiting there at that hospital.. picking their teeth with their pocket knives. Granny too!

 

Yeah, and don't forgit ta bring da shot guns too! Shine them real good in front of H. Hee hee...

 

Hang tight Mammax, you are a pillar of strength for your children. It's been hard, but you want more, deserve more, and know that won't tolerate any less that what you and your children deserve from this man. He is responsible for letting this unborn child know that he or she has a father. You can only provide him with the opportunity. Hopefully, he will come to his senses when the baby is born.

[mammax3]

Hi everyone.

 

He called to tell me he'll be here the night before the baby's birth and he'll stay for 4 days after that. Woo! Whadda guy. 4 whole days. I'm pretty angry that he's being this small.

 

I read somewhere, was it here? that whatever the ex does, it's not up for debate or criticism anymore since the couple is no longer a couple. The exes shouldn't comment on the behaviours or choices anymore since they don't really have any 'say' over the other... So, I'm really trying to subscribe to that thought. He's making a choice to say for 4 days. I'm sure he realizes it's a sh*tty thing to do, yet he's still doing it. Me harping on him won't change that - he's not going to change his flight!

 

When he called to tell me this, I tried to be calm and collected and I ended the call this time (first time in a long time) and it felt good. I am seeing me in a power position (again, first time) and me having some high cards.

 

My family is having a hard time, figuring out 'how' to act around him. No one wants to do anything obtuse, yet everyone is looking for his blood. Holy stress! I've told everyone that this visit is not about him and I, it's about this baby, and our older kids. There'll be lots of opportunities later on. He's not about to ... oh wait, I was going to say BAIL, but he's already DONE THAT!!

 

Anyway. I'm excited and nervous to meet my new baby - I don't know if it's a girl or boy - on Monday! Yikes! And Yaay!

 

I'm sure I'll post again before then.

 

[hurting_in_nw]

I send you and your kids all my best...

[PWSX3]

Good luck, I will be thinking of you!!!!!

[Ladyjane14]

I read somewhere, was it here? that whatever the ex does, it's not up for debate or criticism anymore since the couple is no longer a couple. The exes shouldn't comment on the behaviours or choices anymore since they don't really have any 'say' over the other... So, I'm really trying to subscribe to that thought.

 

Once the relationship is over, yeah.. I'd say that's fair.

 

BUT... that's only after your boundaries are maintained. IOW, if his word or action tramples on the boundaries you've set for what kind of treatment you're willing to tolerate from other people... hey "comment" away, good and loud too.

 

I'd like to remind you that this upcoming birth is about YOU and YOUR BABY. Nobody else. You two are doing all the hard work and it needs to be about YOUR comfort.

 

It's not too late to tell him to stay away if you're stressing about his presence. And at ANY time during the procedure or recovery, you are completely welcome to tell him to leave. Have a quiet word with the nurses and make sure they know that he's estranged from you. That way they can keep an eye on him, as well as monitor you for stress.

 

This is your baby's birth. It is already compromised as a 'fond memory' by your STBX's inability to be a man. But I think you can still take something positive away from making this new memory if you concentrate on your new little bundle of joy and allow NO ONE to interfere with your bonding.

[ilmw]

Once the relationship is over, yeah.. I'd say that's fair.

 

BUT... that's only after your boundaries are maintained. IOW, if his word or action tramples on the boundaries you've set for what kind of treatment you're willing to tolerate from other people... hey "comment" away, good and loud too.

 

I'd like to remind you that this upcoming birth is about YOU and YOUR BABY. Nobody else. You two are doing all the hard work and it needs to be about YOUR comfort.

 

It's not too late to tell him to stay away if you're stressing about his presence. And at ANY time during the procedure or recovery, you are completely welcome to tell him to leave. Have a quiet word with the nurses and make sure they know that he's estranged from you. That way they can keep an eye on him, as well as monitor you for stress.

 

This is your baby's birth. It is already compromised as a 'fond memory' by your STBX's inability to be a man. But I think you can still take something positive away from making this new memory if you concentrate on your new little bundle of joy and allow NO ONE to interfere with your bonding.

 

Damn Lj.. that was a wonderful post... made me feel all paternal...:love:

 

I still remember the day my s5 was born... and how I felt... it was the best..

 

Mx3... all the best... I know many here will be thinking of you...

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks, ILMW.

 

I still remember the day my s5 was born... and how I felt... it was the best..

 

I do believe there's room for Mamma to take control of this situation and make some "lemonade". She's a tough cookie, and if she's willing to prioritize herself and the baby, she can CREATE positive memories of her child's birth.

 

Mx3... all the best... I know many here will be thinking of you...

 

And waiting to hear all about your new addition. And saying a little prayer for your safe and speedy delivery.

[Gunny376]

The sorry POS should get on his knees and Thank God he's not married into the Mob or a family of "good old boys"! No doubt Uncle Vinnie and the boys would pay him a little visit back behind the hospital to show them their brand new Louville Sluggers they got last XMAS! :mad:

 

If you were my Sis, It would get down right ugly. I'd have my Buck knife 110 out ~ and I wouldn't be sitting around picking my teeth with it either!

(I wouldn't cut him ~ just use it to beat his 'sorry' azz!)

 

Sorry, seperating and divorcing is one thing ~ but there's such a thing as "human decency" ~ respect. I'd at least get DI in his face up close and personal, and probally get my azz kicked out of the waiting room!

 

Four days? I'd tell him not to even bother!

 

You and the little ones will be in my thoughts and prayers!

 

If its a boy ~ name him "Gunny"!

[GreenEyedLady]

I read somewhere, was it here? that whatever the ex does, it's not up for debate or criticism anymore since the couple is no longer a couple. The exes shouldn't comment on the behaviours or choices anymore since they don't really have any 'say' over the other...

 

This statement is not the reality...when people coparent, their X's behavior is up for debate and criticism when it affects the children...for example, an order to show cause can be filed in cases to reduce visitation when X's take children to school late causing excessive tardies, he doesn't see the children as much as the visitation schedule allows (this would mean more $$ for support) etc...plus it's just human nature to criticize someone we've already found lacking when they keep making stupid choices that affect not only themselves but others...

 

It's great that you're trying to take that stance, but don't feel like you've failed an ideal that you've strived for if you find that you cannot keep from criticizing him...Just don't do it in front of the children (which I'm sure you wouldn't anyway)...Xspouses are great at ticking you off (if that's the type of person they are), no matter how long you've been divorced...

 

And mostly I wanted to tell you to take care of yourself and that beautiful baby who will be joining you soon!

[mammax3]

Thanks everyone, for your thoughts tomorrow! I'll post when I get home about the baby and how the hospital stay was. I can't say if "Gunny" will be a middle name or not, but it'd be a terrific nick name!

 

Thanks GEL and LJ. I see what you're both saying - kinda the same thing, I think. Not whining, but it's so hard to see what the right course of action is. Even something that feels correct in this moment I may end up wondering why I chose that path. I think I can only do what I think is right for me and the kids at the time of the event. If he does treat me disrespectfully (not just due to his alien brain) then I won't be still for it. I think he realizes (maybe?) that the 'calm' he's seeing in me right now is the surface of a deep river and he'd be wise to tread lightly.

 

He came 'home' tonight, and it was okay between us. Not particularly friendly, but no strained animosity. We didn't talk about anything in particular (what time to wake up tomorrow, where he is going to sleep tonight etc) and I left to go to bed first (I'm going to ride this 'first' wave as long as I can! I like the implicit sense of power it gives me...). I didn't cry seeing him, and I had no desire to claw his eyes out, but I was aware that this isn't the same man and he's okay with the way our lives are unfolding. Which is still unbelievable to me. But I'm trying to get through it.

 

Thanks again everyone! I feel that the last few weeks have all been leading to tomorrow (which, obviously, they have, so I hope you know what I mean!! )... I feel like I can handle this, and make the lemonade. He doesn't realize what he's leaving, and I can't believe how much i'm gaining.

 

It'll be a few days, at least! Eek! A new baby!

[ilmw]

Thanks everyone, for your thoughts tomorrow! I'll post when I get home about the baby and how the hospital stay was. I can't say if "Gunny" will be a middle name or not, but it'd be a terrific nick name!

 

Thanks GEL and LJ. I see what you're both saying - kinda the same thing, I think. Not whining, but it's so hard to see what the right course of action is. Even something that feels correct in this moment I may end up wondering why I chose that path. I think I can only do what I think is right for me and the kids at the time of the event. If he does treat me disrespectfully (not just due to his alien brain) then I won't be still for it. I think he realizes (maybe?) that the 'calm' he's seeing in me right now is the surface of a deep river and he'd be wise to tread lightly.

 

He came 'home' tonight, and it was okay between us. Not particularly friendly, but no strained animosity. We didn't talk about anything in particular (what time to wake up tomorrow, where he is going to sleep tonight etc) and I left to go to bed first (I'm going to ride this 'first' wave as long as I can! I like the implicit sense of power it gives me...). I didn't cry seeing him, and I had no desire to claw his eyes out, but I was aware that this isn't the same man and he's okay with the way our lives are unfolding. Which is still unbelievable to me. But I'm trying to get through it.

 

Thanks again everyone! I feel that the last few weeks have all been leading to tomorrow (which, obviously, they have, so I hope you know what I mean!! )... I feel like I can handle this, and make the lemonade. He doesn't realize what he's leaving, and I can't believe how much i'm gaining.

 

It'll be a few days, at least! Eek! A new baby!

 

I have got to say.. you are one strong lady.. For all you are going through... you strength of character shines through...

 

Your... optimism .. and sense of hope...is infectious...:)

 

All the best:)

 

ilmw

[azianpride143]

mammax good luck on the baby and again stay strong.