Gunny376 Posted May 13, 2007 Posted May 13, 2007 "Mama On!" Get out there and get some!" I hope you're referring to some Ice Cream or a spa day or something Gunny, not too many will give any to a pregnant mother of 2 mere weeks before her due date!! :lmao: Well... actually, maybe some guys will! I was referring to getting out there and getting yourself a fist-full of life, living and rubbing some sunshine on your face! Seize the day! Despite the idiot wimp azz, lying, cheating husband ~ God? He's laid a lot of blessings at your feet! You've been blessed! And are about to be blessed again. As much as ilmw is an inspiration to the men going through this ~ you're a poster-child for women! CARRY ON!!!!
ilmw Posted May 13, 2007 Posted May 13, 2007 I was referring to getting out there and getting yourself a fist-full of life, living and rubbing some sunshine on your face! Seize the day! Despite the idiot wimp azz, lying, cheating husband ~ God? He's laid a lot of blessings at your feet! You've been blessed! And are about to be blessed again. As much as ilmw is an inspiration to the men going through this ~ you're a poster-child for women! CARRY ON!!!! Damn straight Gunns... Mamma.. you make my thread.. look like a children's book compared to what you are having to go through... As Gunny said.. YOU ARE AN INSPIRATION..TO US ALL!!
Author mammax3 Posted May 14, 2007 Author Posted May 14, 2007 Bwahahaha! Phew! I thought for a moment... well, you saw what I thought!! Thank you for your supportive words and constant encouragement. Really. It's easier to be what people expect of you and makes you want to be that person. So knowing how strong you all think I'm being makes me feel stronger and therefore makes me stronger... I know that I'm on a long road here reading the other threads (like yours ilmw) gives me a sense of what sorts of emotions and struggles I may have. And knowing that there are all of you out there too who have battled and won some and lost some and still are optimistic and looking forward to the future ... reassures me even more that I will be okay. And I will be strong - and even if I'm not sometimes, that's okay too.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 And the pre-affair problems in the marriage were not huge. He has yet, actually, to define them at all. Just vague statements of dissatisfaction. It was the 'normal' stressors of young children and the responsibilities of a house (which he often let fall) and the problems of only seeing each other 3/14 days for nearly a year. Maybe I'm naive, but I really see this as his (bad) solution to a common problem in marriages... We hit a rough spot and he bailed. Period. Really, you don't come off like a person who's going to be causing BIG problems in her relationship. I've always had the feeling that there wasn't anything more going on in your story than the mundane issues surrounding family life. In all likelihood, you'll find a better partner at some point... one who's made of sterner stuff. Your STBX will doubtless continue to bail out on people when the going gets tough. Scratch that. I don't even think you could describe it as "tough". How about... "when the going gets REAL". You know the thing that blows my mind today, as I'm reading your thread... is that you really DO sound like such a nice person. With two little ones, and one more who's arrival is imminent, you're also in such a vulnerable place in your life. It's just hard to imagine what kind of man could do such a thing....or what kind of woman could take part in it. I've read countless threads in the OM/OW forum, and I STILL can't quite wrap my mind around why a woman would want a guy who does this. Consistently, you will hear, "Every story is different". But what they ALL have in common is someone who cheats and lies instead of solving their problems. And someone else who turns a blind eye to that deception and the pain it causes. What woman in her right mind would accept such a man as the one who has sooooo heinously mistreated you? It makes no sense.
Author mammax3 Posted May 15, 2007 Author Posted May 15, 2007 I know, LJ. And you're spot on with the whole "getting real" thing. I don't know what he thinks life is about... Getting through these rough spots and thereby loving each other more and understanding each other more so more rough spots (cuz there will/woulda been more of them!) can be managed later... That's the point of these types of 'issues', and please understand, by 'issues' I mean young children, first home ownership and 10 years of stable relationship. There were none of the 'issues' that you or I would think of. The only thing that I'm getting here is that I can love my children more, and understand myself more so the (almost) four of us can weather these spots in the future. Not including him. I'm done. (Well, I guess not 100% since if he came back next week, remorseful and ready to seek C, then I'd say ok... So I guess that's not really 'done'). I keep thinking of what you said that a man wouldn't leave his family and all he's known for an 'emotional connection'... it'd have to be about sex (and maybe a connection). And I'm right beside you when you say what woman would want him when he could leave his partner of 10 years and the mother of his children for a quick play in the sack?? Does she think it wouldn't happen to her? Does she actually think that there is something stabilizing about her that was lacking in me (for the last decade??)? I try hard not to think about too much of this since I may go crazy. If that's a Scarlett mentality, then paint me red, but it's what I need to get through right now. I'm sure I want him at the birth (but hesitant to say it out loud in case he doesn't come...) mostly for the baby but also because of what you said LJ, about driving OW nuts and because I think it'd really show me how cold he is to just leave after seeing that new life - the one he and I created. And it'd set me up to be harder and stronger in the coming emotional months of babydom and separation proceedings. I want him to hurt and to feel what he's done. He doesn't hear his s4 say Is Daddy *ever* going to come back? Let's just move to wherever Daddy is. Ya. It's killer and he has no idea. And that makes me want to swear and freak out. Really. And yes, this is a vulnerable time for me, and for the kids too, since our lives are changing in so many ways... and he literally chooses to bail. It's astounding to me.
Sheba Posted May 15, 2007 Posted May 15, 2007 I think it is astounding to all of us that your husband has left you at this time. I wonder if his self image is made of granite. How he can walk away from you and those babies is impossible to understand. How can he sleep? How can he eat? He seems to be a worthless human being, mamma, but I expect that he has a better side which appealed to you 10 years ago. Right now, that better side, if there is anything left of it, is lost to raging hormones, I imagine. Lost to that and the release from the reality of messy, crying children and financial pressures. Who knows if he will find his better self again? However, I firmly believe of you that you do not need him. You are a strong person. What is more, you already have the best of him - the babies. I went through a hard time in my life when my two children were newborns, mamma, and I can tell you that having those children made all the bad things recede. From the way you write about your 2 and soon to be 3, I think you will have the same experience. How bad can you feel when you get the pleasure of their unconditional love, the thrill of that first baby smile, the sweet smell of their heads? You will watch them get to know each other and grow and you will teach them what you want them to know and to believe of the world and you will do a wonderful job.
Author mammax3 Posted May 16, 2007 Author Posted May 16, 2007 <<sigh>> Thank you so much everyone. I've had a very emotional day and how frustrated was I when I just wanted to come on here and read and re-read and LS was 'error'-ing all over the place! Argh! So now, although I do feel somewhat fragile still, I am gathering myself around me to stay focussed and together. It really helps to read this thread over again. ... He had sent flowers 'from' the children for Mothers Day and I just got it today. I didn't need to remind him about the financial info I needed for today, he just emailed it along. I know it's not as if he wants to reconcile, but the disinterest and coolness he's been showing is starting to thaw a little and it's making my resolve waver. I have too much sympathy for him. I can't even describe it. I've tried three times just now, but keep deleting what I wrote. I know how much I mean(t) to him. There is no doubt in my mind that what we had was real and strong and good. And then he does THIS??? WTF? And so I've been reminicising and trying not to. Trying not to imagine how our futures will look. Trying not to think of what it will be like when he's here for baby's birth. Trying not to think about how his life is going. It's hard to stay hard and mad at a man with whom I've shared so much for so long, we've given each other everything. For him to leave without so much as a backwards glance kills me. I find this strange little grain of sand inside me that says he'll come back. This cannot be the end. But then I think about what i'm about to face - with this baby, the lives of my other children and all the legal hoopla I've got to go through, and I don't think I could change my mind - I don't think he could 'come back'. He is everything everyone's said and worse since no one knows our positive and loving history with which to compare this "man" who we're all seeing now. But I think I could. I'm sure all this see-sawing is normal. And it's just the way I'm feeling today because he's done two things today that caught me off guard and made me realize he's thinking of us out there. I sincerely imagined he's thousands of miles away just basking in bachelordom, but when it shows that he's not...? Maybe? Maybe the OW told him to send me something. Maybe he talked to his mother and she said you'd better. Heck, maybe the flowers *are* from his mother - I just assumed it's from him. I try not to think and then I wake up in the middle of the night, doing just that. It's better and easy to focus on the children, as many of you have said. But the little grains do creep in and make me long for the man and the relationship that once was. And the fact that I'm taking all his sh*t on by myself and he's carrying squat makes me feel so tired as I look down this road. Ugh. I am just down today. I needed to get it all out. And I could go on. And on. But I think I'll just try to sleep.
Just2Cute1972 Posted May 16, 2007 Posted May 16, 2007 Ive read thru this entire thread and i can totally relate to you on so many levels. I was married for seven years, together for a total of ten, and my (ex) husband walked out on me when i was pregnant with our son and four more at home. He decided he didnt want to be a daddy or a husband anymore, got up for work and he never came back home. I was five months preggo at the time. That was six years ago. Devestated? OMG..beyond belief. I lost everything .. my home, my vehicle..u name it. I didnt work at the time for obvious reasons. I never thought id make it thru. I was very wrong. Im so glad he left. Going thru it i didnt feel that way of course, but looking back it was the BEST thing he could have ever done. I have no idea to this day how i could have ever loved him. Its beyond me. He is a HORRIBLE person. He has since remarried (to a chick he picked up in a bar 2 nites after he left us and who paid for our divorce) and he cheats on her left and right, physically abuses her, mentally abuses her .. u name it. Unfortunately, i dont have a lot of advice to give you...i know its hard. I managed to get thru it and sometimes i often wonder how i managed. I believe it was the kids that forced me to get thru it. I was the responsible one and if i wasnt there for them, who would be? I was always labeled as being "the strong one" .. im glad i was. You seem to also be a strong woman...u WILL make it thru and everything will be ok. I didnt move to the best of places when he left (nice neighborhood, crappy home) but it was MY home and i didnt have to worry about someone walking out and me and these kids being in the streets. I put myself thru college, landed a decent job and here i am still going strong. I just wanted to share my story with you to let u know that although everything is turned upside down for you right now, there IS a light at the end of the tunnel. You will be just fine.
mum2three Posted May 16, 2007 Posted May 16, 2007 I know you could really use some uplifting words now. It is a crazy hormonal time. On top of that, WAH is distracting you from your major priorities which is your health, your baby & children. He is a stupid SOB!!! He does not deserve a warm hearted woman such as you. Most of us here go thru the marriage grind with some regrets that we "could have", "should have" done this or that. But the bottomline is that we did not cheat or abandon the family. It is so spineless and cowardly. Your H is just like mine, dumped you without glancing back. My H is now open with his OW and told me that he has moved on and hope that therapy can help me move on too. I told him that "you bet your mother f**in a$$ that I'm moving on cuz I'm not taking your BS anymore!" I don't need to latch on to any move that comes along to prove that I have moved on. You don't need your H or another man right now. You gather that support group and your family and lean on them. I felt just like you a month ago. I was jokingly saying that I am bipolar b/c I would feel happy during the day and really sad at nite. Just try not to linger in the sadness too long. It doesn't matter if H sent u the flowers. It is just not the same anymore. It would have meant something if he was a real loving person. Formalities don't do sh*t when you can't be a supportive husband and a good example to your kids. I have never cursed so much in my life. But it feels great! You have so much to give. I feel your warmth, sincerity, and gentleness but I also feel your strength and will to survive this on top. You are your children's rock and you will get thru this. I bet you will look at him in a couple of months and wonder how you would ever consider letting that spineless coward influence your thoughts.
Author mammax3 Posted May 17, 2007 Author Posted May 17, 2007 Thanks 2cute, I hope that I will feel like you in time. I know you know how hard that is to believe right now, but other women in a similar situation have managed, and so can I! I'm feeling not so low tonight. Playing with kids really does help and it puts all this sh*t he's doing in perspective. He is stupid, he truly doesn't realize what he's giving up for nothing. I've started at the beginning of your thread, mto3, and our H's sure seem to be cut from the same cloth. I'm on page 5 and I'm gathering that your process is only a few months older than mine? He began talking 'out' in December, and I'm at January in your thread... How has your emotional ride been? Besides the bi-polar feeling, I mean? Does it seem to be following Kubler-Ross's death and dying 5 step process (denial, bargaining etc)? How are your children dealing and when/what did you say? We're waiting to tell them so it doesn't coincide with baby's birth and since he's away so much anyway, it's not as if he's part of our home routine... While reading, I remembered something my H had said the first time he was back after saying he wanted out ... I was asking Q's about what's going on etc and he said Why can't you just accept this? Is it because there's no concrete reason? (this was prior to admitting to the OW)... and at the time, I sullenly backed off, feeling I was stupid for not 'just accepting this' (as if it were a piece of cake)... and now, a month later, I'm realizing Yes! That was why! I knew you were lying and "just because" is *NOT* a reason to separate! Stupidhead! Geesh. Something I'm struggling with right now is the feeling of loss for how I thought my life was going to pan out. But this is something that I'll eventually come to terms with. Another thing is the strange duality between trusting him and not trusting him. I still feel like I could tell him anything, but i don't want to since I don't know where he could go with that potential 'ammo'. I'm not ready for things to be 'friendly' since I couldn't be friends with someone who would hurt me and my fam so deeply. But I don't want it to be strained and awful when he does come 'home' for his very infrequent and short visits... I guess I'm stuck on 'how' to act, since I can't be my usual lovey self to him, and I'm not wanting to keep the best friend aspect alive, and yet he's not a stranger! And do I tell him all this?? How much can I trust him with my feelings??? Any input or advice? And compounding is of course, the baby's birth is the next time we'll see each other! That adds another level of intimacy that he's not feeling. Even if he spends most of his time with the kids (which I'm also worried about) I'm sure we'll both be feeling the emotional load of welcoming a new baby we had made when we were 'in love'... (even if he tries to rewrite that marital history, it's BS!). Even if it looks like it, I'm not freaking out, I'm just trying to be ready when he comes 'home'. Thanks! (and what's up with these new faces?)
Ladyjane14 Posted May 17, 2007 Posted May 17, 2007 Another thing is the strange duality between trusting him and not trusting him. I still feel like I could tell him anything, but i don't want to since I don't know where he could go with that potential 'ammo'. I'm not ready for things to be 'friendly' since I couldn't be friends with someone who would hurt me and my fam so deeply. But I don't want it to be strained and awful when he does come 'home' for his very infrequent and short visits... I guess I'm stuck on 'how' to act, since I can't be my usual lovey self to him, and I'm not wanting to keep the best friend aspect alive, and yet he's not a stranger! And do I tell him all this?? How much can I trust him with my feelings??? I think "duality" is a good, descriptive word. And not just in the context of "trusting him and not trusting him". I think is alot of ways... it's descriptive of the WS himself. I'm sure you're doing alot of reading right now, and you've probably seen folks describe the WS as an "alien". As if some weird force had exchanged all that was familiar about him with some entirely different personality, body-snatched him as it were. You've also seen the WS described as "a stranger". Honestly, I think there's some validity to that. I know my husband. And what I saw during our marriage crisis was NOT the husband I knew. I can't begin to describe how VERY shocked I was at the changes in him. He was as unpredictable as any weirdo off the street... and I had lived with him for over TWENTY YEARS. It was like the Twilight Zone. Frankly, this "strangeness" was so unnerving there were times I was actually a little bit afraid of him. In fact, on the day I confronted him, I had my cell phone and car keys in my pocket, and kept myself between him and the door the whole time. Now, this man has NEVER given me any credible reason to think he might become violent. But I didn't know the man he seemed to have become by then. I think there's a struggle within some of these guys. The dual personalities of Husband and Wayward Husband warring against one another. In my case, the "Husband" won out. I'm blessed that he did. Because I sure as hell didn't like that other guy he'd become. Possibly the thing to do is to imagine these two different personalities as separate individuals. Heck, give the wayward one his own evil moniker. (I have to admit... I think of Mum's as "Dr. Do-a-little" ) Then, deal with them separately. You know your husband, and your eyes have been opened. You can SEE the beast now. The WH isn't going to fool you quite so easily as he did before. A WH is unworthy of your trust, your love, your devotion. His impetus is self-gratification. A Wayward Husband is not a Husband.
Author mammax3 Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 Thanks LJ. I'm so happy that your marriage survived and is stronger for it. At the risk of asking a dumb question, why is that? How come some WS can be made aware of the reality and how does a BS know that it's possible to 'make' him come back? I'm heavily divided between saying Fine, Eff You! ... and Hey you! Come back here! I know you've *ALL* said that WS's not worth it and all that, and most of the time I agree... But watching my 2yo fall asleep and seeing that innocence of thinking everything is okay and right in his world... and me knowing that it's not - his most basic level of trust is being affected and he doesn't know it. It's killer. I know that H does/did love his kids and seeing the offhanded way he's treating them right now... I don't know if that makes me say Eff You even louder, or if it makes me say Come back and rebuild what's already been lost. And I think about all the things we've said over the years... We'd never stay together Just For the Kids. But we also said that we'd retire to a small cottage, and that we'd always be together and that we'd never cheat on each other. Why are only some of those promises being held? He's choosing which ones to remember and which ones to honor and trying to make me feel like a schmuck for suggesting to stay together Just For the Kids. Argh! And when I start to think, I get so angry at his non-reality based thinking, and even the idea that 'he's not the man he once was' seems like such an easy cop out for him ... Sure, no responisibilities or regret since he's been "Body snatched". But then I see the truth in that statement, and think there's no point in trying to salvage something that's not even there anymore. He's made *his* choice for all of us, and now I'm left holding the bag and I've just got to work it as best I can. Which goes back to my Q, how does one know if a WS can be brought back from the addiction of the OP? How long/hard does one try? Is it possible for me to continue the line of separation and yet still have a hidden hope? Can I present one side of me, focus on how to minimize the hurt the kids will feel and be as logical and cool as possible, and just 'see' how I feel about him later? I guess I should do as I always say to the kids, One Step at a Time. Let's get this baby out. Let's adjust to the newest member of my family. And then we'll focus on divorce or whatever comes... It's so bloody hard to do that! I feel like if I wait, or let it go on too long that I'll lose all I have... But time will out. I know this. Geesh... I sure had a lot to say. I guess I had to work it through 'out loud' to see how I feel or what I think. Thanks for reading. (And I would appreciate any answers! If there are any!)
azianpride143 Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Why would you want him back? Please listen to me. I may be faced with the same scenario at some point in the future where my STBXW will ask for forgiveness and would ask me to take her back. But why would I want to do that? After what this person has put me through. I can't even imagine spending another day or a lifetime with her anymore. Remember if he did this to you at your current state and walk away. What guarantee do you have that he won't do this to you in the future. You have seen what this person is capable of doing. You have been hurt. Why not cut your losses and move on. I have and am looking forward to a better life. I gave this person 14 years of my life and it's not all that great. Why would I want to do it all over again. For me it's not worth it. Even with my 2 children. I would rather raise them on my own and enjoy the rest of my life alone. At least now I have some peace. I get to work on bettering myself and concentrating on getting my life back on track. Someday this person will come to love and accept me for who I am and then my life will be whole again. I will not look for love anymore. Love should find you and in good time. You are now given a chance no matter how difficult the circumstance. To correct what's wrong in your life. A chance for you to take control and take charge of your future. You are strong and will keep getting stronger. I was a complete mess 2 months ago. Others in LS have gone through this and have made a positive change in their lives. So can you. It's hard but you can if you want to. Look at what your life can be and move towards that. You can survive this you'll see.
Gunny376 Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 This whole thing PMO! Wife aside! Problems with her aside! I'd sleep in a hollow log, eat road kill, and drink muddy water for my children and DGS ~ Austin! As long as I'm sucking breath ~ they won't go without.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Thanks LJ. I'm so happy that your marriage survived and is stronger for it. At the risk of asking a dumb question, why is that? How come some WS can be made aware of the reality and how does a BS know that it's possible to 'make' him come back? Nothing can 'make' them come back. The decision has to come from within. There's no way to tell WHEN they might make that decision though. It might be next week, next month, next year, or never. So, you can't make your plans contingent on it. "Never" is as equal to "next month" in that the odds are pretty much the same. I have my suspicions as to why my marriage survived and so many don't. First, I caught him about two weeks before he could 'get some strange'. He'll swear on his deathbed that he'd have never gone through with it, and I don't doubt he believes it himself. But he would have. He'd have put himself into a situation where "it just happened", because he's not the type to make a cheating decision outright. If he had "gone through with it", sure as the world is round... there's NO WAY that I could've taken him back. Bear in mind, I didn't know then what I know now so I wouldn't have believed the marriage was recoverable. He knew my stance on it, so the "cheating decision" would've been difficult to make on that score too. It would've been a FINAL decision. So... he was just kind of backing into it without looking at it. That whole "it just happened" gambit is fairly appealing when you're on the fence. I think a good many folks put themselves into a situation in which something can happen so they won't have to face the responsibility of making a conscious choice. Anyway, having observed the behavior of a WH, a guy who was a stranger to me, unpredictable... I did some snooping. It didn't take long to find evidence of inappropriate behavior, Within a couple of hours, I was at an attorney's office and demanding a divorce. I meant it too. I'd had about all I was EVER going to put up with. And THIS 'willingness to end the marriage' put a serious hole in the fantasy bubble. I think it's necessary to establish that boundary. But you can't be playing. You have to absolutely, unequivocally mean it. Any wishy-washy message on your part only gives him permission to linger in his fantasies. I know you've *ALL* said that WS's not worth it and all that, and most of the time I agree... The WS is NOT worth it. A "wayward" isn't worth having in your life. Now, that doesn't mean he can't recover. And if he does... then fine. It would be a new day and a new arrangement if you decided to proceed. But the active WS only brings chaos and disharmony to your life. The thing is... you see all this much more clearly than he does. You SEE the dysfunction. You SEE occasional glimpses of the man you used to know and love. You SEE what he's losing, and you SEE what the kids are losing. But until he sees it for himself... he's beyond recovery. Your sympathy will only get in your own way. Sympathy is the best tool in your arsenal for RECOVERY. But it's a detriment to your peace of mind when dealing with a WS. It's much as AP said... "you've been given a chance to take control of your life". A WS has no value. He's an anvil tied to your leg while you're learning to do the 'doggy paddle'. Only the 'real deal' is worth having. Prescribe value only to a 'husband'... not a 'wayward husband'. There really isn't a thing you can say or do that will 'make' your "husband" reemerge. The only thing you can do is to clarify the choices he's making. He can't have you AND this trollop he's with now. ANYTHING that makes the choice murky... prolongs the chaos. ....there's no point in trying to salvage something that's not even there anymore. This is where the confusion comes in. Sometimes 'what you wish you could salvage' IS still there. You just don't have access to it. He's the ONLY one who does. It seems like some betrayed spouses know intuitively that their REAL spouse is still in there somewhere, lurking just below the surface. And maybe THAT's why it's so hard to let go. Maybe THAT's why they feel the need to DO something even though they don't know what. ...how does one know if a WS can be brought back from the addiction of the OP? How long/hard does one try? The addiction must be broken. But HE has to be the one to break through it. You can't stop an alcoholic from drinking, or a crackhead from smoking crack. All you can do is to refrain from enabling them. So, it's your choice if you want to wait it out or not. But any enabling you do only prolongs the affair. It makes his choices murky. Like we talked about earlier, infatuations only last on average about 2 years. But add "drama"... and you become the glue that binds them. That's why strong boundaries which clarify the WS's choices are your best bet. There's no flux in stiff boundaries. No wiggle room. No drama. Is it possible for me to continue the line of separation and yet still have a hidden hope? Can I present one side of me, focus on how to minimize the hurt the kids will feel and be as logical and cool as possible, and just 'see' how I feel about him later? That's entirely up to you, hon. As long as you patrol your boundaries... you can feel about this however you feel. When you're ready to give up on it, you will. And not one minute before. I don't get the vibe from you that you'll end up being one of those who can't let go and won't move on. The feeling I have from you is that you're just not ready yet. Grief is a process. And if your husband never reemerges from beneath the WS personality... you're going to have to deal with that at some point. But not today. You have ALOT of other stuff on your plate which takes priority. You've got a new baby any day now, little ones to manage, and all the legal details involved with separation/divorce. But I have faith in you that you'll be able to recognize if/when "hope" becomes detrimental to your progress in life. As long as you're not enabling or ignoring the work immediately before you, I think you can safely deal with all these feelings of hope later on down the pike.
sumdude Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Yes, the duality of it all.... I see it with my STBXW. One day we have lunch and talk like we always did, as if nothing's wrong. Then another day on the phone she's possessed, accusing, sobbing, guilt tripping .... and a stranger. I think she may not be entirely sure of what she wants ... and is still convincing herself... Bottom line is that I won't spend my life with someone who isn't sure about me and I'm no longer sure about either. If she were to come back, if your H was to come back. Imagine the constant questioning of the relationship that just wouldn't end. Every day he would be away on business what would be on your mind? Whether you did your best to control it you likely would never be able to trust him again would you? Could you live that way?
Ladyjane14 Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 I just wanted to add one more thing.... I recognize that the "hard-line' advice I've given to you is different from some that I've posted to others. But I don't see you as causal to any intrinsic problems within the marriage. If you were heavily contributing to the dysfunction of the relationship... say, if you were overly controlling, verbally abusive, consistently withholding emotional or sexual intimacy, or things of that nature... I'd tell you to "Plan A" right through the affair. I'd tell you to create "murkiness" in his choice to end the marriage. But you're not doing ANY of those things. This is completely about HIM and his choice to "run away" from his responsibilities. In my situation, I did a HUGE "Plan A" after my husband recommitted to the marriage. It was necessary, and turned out so well it's become natural behavior these days. But in the early months... I was having to "Plan A" through quite a bit of leftover "fog". I believe there IS merit to the MB strategy. But I think that merit is measured in the betrayed spouse's contributions to the pre-affair state of the marriage. For myself, I had been a fairly heavy contributor. I don't see you as having contributed so heavily as to have affected his decision to "run". I think that's coming from within him, not from the outside.
Gunny376 Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Ditto with LJ and SD, ~ but in Gunny~speak ~ "Yadda, yadda, yadda, the DH is part of the problem ~ not part of the solution, part of the question, not part of the answers. Either be part of the solutions and answers or be gone! From what you've posted ~ this guy just can't man-up to his responsibilties and obligations as a husband and a father. Better to be single, happy,and alone ~ than married, un-happy, and alone. You almost remind me of the women in my family?! The only difference between you and them is they would have already served this guy his azz up on a plate! I'm surprised my daughter is even married. You get once chance with her, the first one. So you'd best get it right the first time!! She set her bounderies early in her marriage, and checks them regularly.
Author mammax3 Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 I've been thinking about all your posts all morning. You're right, LJ, I don't think I could "plan a" my way out of a paper bag with him, since it is all coming from his insides. I think that the OW gave him the impetus to say he wants out, and an 'easy' excuse of "I'm not in love with you anymore" rather than "I'm just a wimp and I'm scared and I can't do it anymore". It's seems like a reverse face saving strategy... An affair is quasi-forgivable (as evidenced with his father, and some of our friends) but to want to abandon your family due to the inability to "man-up" would lose too much of his manhood... Did that make sense? The more I think about it, the more sense it makes in our situation. And the fact that he's not interested in trying... he's just not man enough for me. He and I have the capacity to be friends (and we truly do, I can feel it in myself) but I feel insane if I 'allow' that to happen since he has left us. I feel like I should be angry and refuse to be friends (and I am angry, sometimes, of course... but do you know what I mean?) and then I see my kids and think no, I don't want to be angry. I'd like to take the road less travelled (I'm reading it right now) and be the bigger person and aknowledge that what we had is gone - for whatever reasons - and focus on the life we need to make with each other for the sake of our children. But I seriously feel insane. With each different person I talk to, my focus shifts a bit and I'm highlighting a different part of what I'm feeling. Angry and PO'd when I talk to my family, hurt and reconcilliatory when I talk to his, almost victimized when I talk to my friends... Which of course adds to my crazy feeling. In my own shoes, quietly with no one around, I want to be friends with him - purely to keep the divorce good and fair and to keep the kids from being 'too' injured. Not particularly because I want to be his friend right now, but because I know that's going to be my long term goal. So I think I have to 'man-up' and make sure my support system knows my goals. As hard as it'll be to tell my family that I'm on the road to forgiveness and I'm choosing to befriend him; as hard as it'll be to tell his family that I'm not going to try and change his mind; as hard as it'll be to tell my friends that I'm making a decision here too. I will 'wait and see' how this goes. Maybe he'll be a one month kind of guy. And if he comes back all remorseful and desperate, I'll see where my head's at. But I'm not going to keep the light glowing. I wish I had the conviction that Gunny's womenfolk have, that LJ has... But I can't say positively that I'd never take him back. I really wish I could. But he doesn't have to know that. And nor does anyone else (save you guys!) ... I can play it that I'm that tough. I keep thinking "Act as If..." and "Grace and dignity". I can get through this. I was going to write that I may need another reminded later, but I'm feeling pretty settled about this. I needed to see what I thought in my own heart. None of you force my hand into anger or hurt or anything (as my physical compatriarts do, inadvertantly, of course), you just allow me to work it out, with encouraging and supportive words. Giving me the benefit of your experiences to draw from... Thank you. I know it's *not* over. I will feel more conflicting emotions (especially as B-day approaches! ) and I will have more Q's... but at least I can feel real about my choices. I still feel insane about 'wanting' to separate in my situation, but that's where I am, and I won't apologize for it. My 2yo is crying, ready for a nap... and I'm ready too, actually. Later dudes...
Ladyjane14 Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 I He and I have the capacity to be friends (and we truly do, I can feel it in myself) but I feel insane if I 'allow' that to happen since he has left us. Of course you want to provide the most wholesome atmosphere for your children possible. But... I think it's a mistake to allow "friendship" at this time. It might end up being a good thing later, but not right now. I think FIRM boundaries need to be established before that can happen. The details of the divorce need to be worked out. And you need some DISTANCE from emotions that are still yet evolving. Civility is more than enough for now. More than this egghead has a right to expect anyway. And it's ALOT more than he'd get from me, I promise you... so count yourself as a better person for even entertaining the thought. :bunny: Check out some of Trimmer's posts. You can find him by putting his user name into the search tool. He seems to be very successful in prioritizing the needs of the children ahead of any acrimony from his divorce. If memory serves... he's been able to maintain professionalism in the parenting relationship with his ex-wife without allowing her to trespass overmuch on his personal life. I think his example might be just what you're looking for.
Gunny376 Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 Why would you want him back? Please listen to me. I may be faced with the same scenario at some point in the future where my STBXW will ask for forgiveness and would ask me to take her back. But why would I want to do that? After what this person has put me through. I can't even imagine spending another day or a lifetime with her anymore. Remember if he did this to you at your current state and walk away. What guarantee do you have that he won't do this to you in the future. You have seen what this person is capable of doing. You have been hurt. Why not cut your losses and move on. I have and am looking forward to a better life. I gave this person 14 years of my life and it's not all that great. Why would I want to do it all over again. For me it's not worth it. Even with my 2 children. I would rather raise them on my own and enjoy the rest of my life alone. At least now I have some peace. I get to work on bettering myself and concentrating on getting my life back on track. Someday this person will come to love and accept me for who I am and then my life will be whole again. I will not look for love anymore. Love should find you and in good time. You are now given a chance no matter how difficult the circumstance. To correct what's wrong in your life. A chance for you to take control and take charge of your future. You are strong and will keep getting stronger. I was a complete mess 2 months ago. Others in LS have gone through this and have made a positive change in their lives. So can you. It's hard but you can if you want to. Look at what your life can be and move towards that. You can survive this you'll see. With that post I want to give you something with the EGA ~ The Eagle, Glode and Anchor ~ a Marines most prized possission! A Marine gives you an EGA ~ its "f**king "A"! EGA'S ARE EARNED ~ HARD EARNED! WITH BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS! For a Marine to give an EGA to a non-Marine is the highest of compliments that a Marine can give another!
Author mammax3 Posted May 21, 2007 Author Posted May 21, 2007 Thanks for the suggestion to Trimmer's posts, LJ. I read Cranium's thread from about a year ago, and Trimmer does have some great input. The key in both Cranium and Trimmer's situations is that both parents wanted contact with the kids. It really REALLY seems that WS/H does NOT want any. He has not called the kids in the last 3 weeks, and hasn't called to tell me when he's coming home for the baby's birth (and we know the date, it's a c/s) or if he's made any flight plans. He really seems to be ignoring us and trying to pretend like we don't exsist. I am unsure at this time whether I should call him and ask about the baby's birth again, or if I should really truly 'let go' as my OP said I did (which I now realize I didn't!). He did say about 2 weeks ago that he would come home, but I've not heard anything since. These last 2 days I've been sizzling about how cold and disinterested he is in the life that he and I created. I was kind of confused in my feelings when he sent those flowers and sent the insurance info... but there's been NOTHING since. I thought that may mean he'd call and tell me when he's coming and flight info, or even a call to see how I'm doing, but there's nothing. He hasn't actually asked how this pregnancy is going at all in the last, oh, 2 months. And maybe not even before that. It's so infuriating that I have no sway or effect in his thoughts or this life. Some of Trimmers suggestions about how to treat the ex was helpful, and I hope to apply them in my situation. I think I can maintain civility, and not friendship but I'm going to be all out of whack hormonally, so who knows?! If I thought he cared about the kids, I may be able to cut him some slack there, but he doesn't seem to, not one bit. So the suggestions I've read (here and in books) about "maintaining positive relationship for the kids" or acting like this is a business partnership especially regarding the kids don't really apply right now. I can't even say what I hope, since I have no idea - he is just so uncaring. It really isn't the same man, I hope. There's nothing to update, I just needed to vent. This ignoring, and imagining us away ... it's just as well he's in a different city so far away. And the kids still say such sweet things about how he's their 'favorite' Daddy and they love him even though he's far away always. Makes me want to cry, they're so sweet. Posting when I feel this way, instead of calling sure helps me maintain my dignity!
ilmw Posted May 21, 2007 Posted May 21, 2007 Unbelievable... simply that. I would say.. you are lucky to be rid of this arse... but.. because he SHOULD be there for you since he is the father of your on born child... I won't. I thought my own father was a jerk for walking out on my mother and my brothers when I was 8 and my kid brother was just 1 year old. But your H takes the prize!! To me, it is inconceivable to leave my wife and kiddies... particularly when she carrying my unborn child!! The more I read your thread... The more I want to kick your H's arse... Then again... I'm a grown up.. and don't do those kind of things... but the "Brute" in me would love to... for his ... well let me leave it at that. Sorry this is not very positive.. or uplifting... but.. sweety... I feel for yah. ilmw....:bunny:
Author mammax3 Posted May 21, 2007 Author Posted May 21, 2007 Thanks, ilmw (I just 'got' what your name means, btw!). I can't imagine what's going on in his head that would account for his sea change personality... He always wanted the stability and security of his 'own' family and he and I loved each other so completely and purely, it's just so astounding that this could happen to him - to me, and our kids. I have no idea where I am on the 5 emotion 'scale' of grieving, and I guess it doesn't matter, since I'd probably slide all around anyway. I'm dancing between anger and denial still... not so much of the bargaining tho... I don't think I could offer him ANYTHING to make him stay, since there was nothing really that was making him leave, y'know? Part of my concern with this divorce is that my children will idolize their father (as he did with his dad) since they (probably) won't have much contact with him. I'm heartened that you realized that your father was a jerk for leaving your family when/how he did. Did your mother influence that realization, or was it totally your own when you were old enough to understand? My sister thinks my kids will come to their own realizations about H on their own without my input (I won't bash him) but I'm really concerned that since they're so young they won't 'get' what's going on and take it as they weren't good enough or something. I don't need to worry about this yet, one thing at a time, i know. But I've only found one book on parenting and divorce and the book seems to think that both parents have equal interest in the good of the children. Thanks for your support and your 'brute' offer. I'm a grown up too, but I would love to see it happen!
azianpride143 Posted May 21, 2007 Posted May 21, 2007 I feel for your pain. I can't even imagine what your going through right now. You just have to accept the fact that this guy may not even be there for you during the birth of your child. If he does then great if not just plan it on your own. Maybe have a relative or a friend stand in instead. Please remain strong for your baby and your kids. They only have you. My younger son does the same thing. I had to take care of him today and he told me I want to go to my mommy's house. It breaks my heart to hear those words. But he's a little boy and doesn't understand the situation. Same with your kids. Kids are untainted when they are young. It hurts for me to see that their mommy and daddy are no longer together. I know it will affect them deeply when they grow up. All we could do is be the best single parent for them. So my dear stand strong. Keep venting. We're here for you.
Recommended Posts