IfWishesWereHorses Posted May 3, 2007 Posted May 3, 2007 Hell, I think every OW deserves a "cheating man". Why not? Amen to that! Signed, sealed, and delivered penniless! LJ, That was an incredible post. You are truly worth your weight in gold round the shack!
Ladyjane14 Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 Amen to that! Signed, sealed, and delivered penniless! Right on. Right on!!! You know, it's not all about being vindictive... but it is a satisfying side benefit. Bottom line is that women have trouble recovering financially in a situation like this. Hey, 'Frank the Skank' is going to go on and make more money. But if this young lady doesn't make sure she gets herself set up well enough to support those children, they'll be dipping below the poverty line next thing. I don't care WHAT a man says when he's leaving, I haven't met one yet that didn't bitch and moan like the world was ending every time he wrote a check. Now, I'm not saying that there can't be any generous men out there. I'm SURE there are. But you don't usually find them dumping their eight-months pregnant wife.
Author mammax3 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Posted May 4, 2007 He didn't call. What? You're not surprised?? Yah, me neither. I'm thinking that this will be the same tune he'll be playing for the next little while... "Oh THIS was the day the baby was supposed to be born? I thought you meant NEXT month! No, I can't get away from work, it's very busy there right now." Oh geez. Whatever frank. I can do it all with your money. LJ: "Now, I'm not saying that there can't be any generous men out there. I'm SURE there are. But you don't usually find them dumping their eight-months pregnant wife." And it's so strange to me still. It's astounding that he could do this. And sometimes I lose touch with what he's actually doing to me and our kids until it hits me in the face like this - I don't think I'm conciously thinking about this abandonment and disrespect that he's doing to me. Otherwise, I think I'd pack up some snacks for me and drive to his work with a 2x4 and a loop of rope for him. Which of course, wouldn't be very helpful for my baby, at least. But boy, would I feel better! What a f***nut. I'll let you know when he does call. Or I'll pop in to vent again!
mum2three Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 Gotta question for you regarding asking the attorney to keep OW away from children for at least a yr....is that a possible request? Just curious since my H has already done that this in March and April. He is playing it off as "playdates" for the kids. btw, the whole bit about WAS taking more and more if you give is so true! They see nothing wrong AT ALL with taking you for everything and feeling so righteous about it too. I still don't get how they don't blink an eye or bat an eyelash with what they want you to do that would make it so convenient for them to saunter out of the M.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 Gotta question for you regarding asking the attorney to keep OW away from children for at least a yr....is that a possible request? Just curious since my H has already done that this in March and April. He is playing it off as "playdates" for the kids. You can ask for anything you want, Mum. You can ask it of the judge, or if your WS wants something else badly enough, you can negotiate it as part of the settlement and custody agreement. Asking for something doesn't necessarily mean you'll receive it though. Mamma has a much better shot at it. Her STBX is hopefully marinating in GUILT right about now, and her kids haven't met the OW yet. This is all new. But in your situation, dealing with Dr. Do-a-little ... he's like a Mack truck with a God complex. He's not going to back down or negotiate this. You'd have to get an order from the judge. Talk it over with your attorney. If you can provide a good enough allegation through a licensed child psychologist that there exists a chance of emotional damage to the children, then maybe you'll have something. I think you'd have had a better shot if you could PROVE that his relationship with her is adulterous and that it's against the morality or religion you're attempting to instill in the children. You might even see if there's something to be had in a background check on her. Overall, I think in your case, it's gonna be a helluva fight with no guarantees to keep her away entirely. On the other hand, I don't think you'd have too much trouble insisting that there be no overnight girlfriends during your children's visitation with their father.
Author mammax3 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Posted May 4, 2007 How much would it hinder me legally if I began telling his friends and workmates what he's done? Some phone calls, some letters, a page in the local newspaper...Nothing scandalous, just the facts of how he's left and what he's said. I'm beginning to seethe over here. And at the same time I *could* potentially override my anger... but my life isn't going to be the same, so... is it immature of me to try and ensure his life won't be the same? Or at least tough for a while...
Ladyjane14 Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 How much would it hinder me legally if I began telling his friends and workmates what he's done? Some phone calls, some letters, a page in the local newspaper...Nothing scandalous, just the facts of how he's left and what he's said. I'm beginning to seethe over here. And at the same time I *could* potentially override my anger... but my life isn't going to be the same, so... is it immature of me to try and ensure his life won't be the same? Or at least tough for a while... I don't think it's "immature" to expose his affair to the light of day. Like I told you earlier, exposure puts pressure on the affair. If it was me... I'd have told everybody I knew by now, simply because I can't abide secrets and lies. Exposure is best when used as a scalpel rather than a bludgeon though, particularly when you're attempting reconciliation. Telling the few key people who are influential in a WS's life can sometimes create intervention and provide the WS with a bit more guidance. Weirdly, I think alot of WS even feel a little better supported, just by virtue of not living a LIE when they're among their "important people" anymore. When you've reached a divorce decision... it's sometimes a cagier move to refrain from "exposure" until after the settlement is signed, sealed, and delivered. That way, you can allow the fantasy elements to influence the WS at negotiation, leaving him a bit more pliable because he thinks he's getting away with something. IOW, you use his "fantasy-goggles" to YOUR advantage. In your case, a more malleable WS might improve your odds of keeping the OW away from the children for at least a little while. If I had to go this route, I'd wait until AFTER the custody agreement and settlement were signed, sealed, and delivered. And then... I'd scorch the ground with exposure. Some might call it vindictive, but I wouldn't give a rat's hind leg. No way I'm protecting my spouse's nasty old affair and allowing him to perpetrate his fraud on family and friends. There's one more consideration. IF there's a fraternization policy on his job and the affair is with a co-worker or business contact... he could be fired. Bear in mind that you can't get blood from a turnip. So if he's unemployed, he won't be able to meet his financial obligations to you and the children in any kind of immediate way. Overall, there are quite a few considerations to be made. It's your call though. I think the best thing to do when making it is to weigh the pros and cons carefully and make sure you're suiting your OWN agenda first and foremost. He'll be mad as hell to be 'outed'. But as long as you stick to the FACTS and you don't come off like a crazy person... I doubt there's a whole lot he can do about it. The difference between slander and libel is that one is spoken and the other is written. And the difference between both of them and THE TRUTH... is your ability to provide evidence of your words. So... whatever you decide, stick to the FACTS.
Author mammax3 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Posted May 4, 2007 LJ: "Exposure is best when used as a scalpel rather than a bludgeon though, particularly when you're attempting reconciliation. Telling the few key people who are influential in a WS's life can sometimes create intervention and provide the WS with a bit more guidance. " I was looking at it as a bludgeon, and of course you're right. I had been up fantasizing for part of the night about all the things that i'd like to say or do to him. And when yu're talking about reconcilliation, can I still consider that even when he doesn't it? When do I give up? When I can't stand the thought of living with him anymore? I find if I continue to nurse the hopeful idea I leave myself open to more hurt... And yet, if he's still in this fog and I'm willing to MC with him when he's all done then I need to continue to be open to a degree. Argh! I think waiting with a jaundiced eye until after the baby's born is a good idea. Keep going the way I am (which does not lend itself to reconcialliation, although he still hasn't called and told me in response to my last stab from the other day) and see how he is on the baby's birthday, or earlier if he decides to come before that. Maybe it will be the 2x4. Its hard to sit and spin my tires, is all. I just wish there was more I could do. Maybe go IC myself, may help, actually. And, keeping him more malleable is an excellent point, as is blood from a turnip! Thanks LJ. I'm cooler now.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 And when you're talking about reconcilliation, can I still consider that even when he doesn't it? When do I give up? When I can't stand the thought of living with him anymore? I find if I continue to nurse the hopeful idea I leave myself open to more hurt... And yet, if he's still in this fog and I'm willing to MC with him when he's all done then I need to continue to be open to a degree. Argh! This is all entirely up to you, Mamma. Although, I think the best course when a person is in doubt is probably to leave as many options available as possible. Bear in mind that your WH doesn't get to make YOUR decisions. He doesn't get to decide where YOU expend your energy. So... you can hope for reconciliation and leave that option open for awhile, or you can opt for divorce and close that door. He's going to do whatever he's going to do. And a WS in an unpredictable personality. The "fog" could lift today, next month, next year... or never. That's why it's YOUR call on where you expend your energy. It hurts to hope. But it hurts to divorce too. Unfortunately, pain is a given in one form or another. Maybe the thing to do then is to look at it like you'd look at childbirth. Something good will come of it either way. Its hard to sit and spin my tires, is all. I just wish there was more I could do. Maybe go IC myself, may help, actually. This is hard for anyone in your situation. And I think maybe even harder for YOU. The "nesting" instinct is strong. It's only natural that you'd want to see everything settled before you give birth. Hang on. Everything WILL become more clear to you in time. And you know what?... I don't think IC is a half bad idea. It would help you feel more supported emotionally if nothing else.
Author mammax3 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Posted May 4, 2007 Thanks LJ. He messaged me that he'll call tonight and "tell me what's going on" in regards to how he feels about reconciling (i suppose since "going on" could encompass a lot! Baby's birth, coming home for a visit before then etc... Who knows!) and I'm suddenly nervous all over again, and feeling very fragile. That strength that I had the other day when I told him to figure it out and call me but I was willing to work on MC with him feels gone. I'm feeling teary now, and trying hard to override it. I know that he doesn't want to reconcile, and yet this crazy part of me hopes that I'm wrong. And at the same time I'm imagining my life without him and part of me is okay with that too. It's like I want him to make a decision so I can be let off the hook, but also so I can be mad at him for deciding for me - does this make ANY sense?? I just need to clear it out a bit, I guess before he calls so I can ... so I can ... I don't know. As of now, I think the only time he's seen me cry is once (regarding all 'this', not in our whole lives together, I'm a big cry baby) so it's ok if I cry. And yet, I don't want to seem so ... I don't know. And I don't want to yell at him or say anything in anger and I don't why that is either. I just don't know how I feel or what I want. Except sad and cry-y. It's just this is the man that I've known my whole adult life, and the one I thought (really thought) I was going to be with until we were old. Maybe it's the idea that I'm upset about. All this time... And yet we have these wonderful children and maybe that's all it was supposed to be. Maybe it's all just coming true for me right now. What it's all meaning. How this is going to end. I really hope for some input or words of encouragment or advice or something before he calls please... And I'll totally be on here rehashing what was said afterwards. I doubt I could sleep until I could. TIA.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 I don't know if you've spoken with him yet... but my best advice to you is this: Until you know your mind better on what YOU want, try your best to leave your options open. He'll try to paint you into a corner. He's bound to have his own agenda, right? Just try to remain calm and noncommittal. Baby first. If you feel stressed, end the conversation and get some rest. Good Luck. :bunny: :bunny:
Author mammax3 Posted May 5, 2007 Author Posted May 5, 2007 He doesn't want to work on it. I told him that I've been conflicted between wanting to work on our marriage and being relieved that my kids will be spared this embarassment of a man as their father. And I continued not to hold back. But it's funny-ish since we've never really fought before (believe it or not!) and yet I knew where he'd go. He got the most defensive around his father (who cheated on his mother for at least 2 years with hookers and with another woman) when I called his dad out for what he was, and around the OW (whom he's still maintaining has nothing to do with this). He didn't even get upset when I asked him to tell me out loud that he wants to leave his 8 months pregnant wife and two small children - in fact he snickered. F***er. I was fairly calm, but I did get heated but not yelling. I just figured that I had nothing to lose, and so was able to say what I was feeling. I know I haven't/won't change his mind, but at some level I hope he's heard what I've said and will be able to remember. The only thing that i'm concerned of is that I've made him mad and now don't have him in a spot. But I don't even think that it matters since it wouldn't be hard to get the financial support that I'll need from him (in terms of courts and lawyers). We did talk about money, and he's continuing to agree to what we initially set out, and I imagine that's some strange sense of responsibility - just buy out what can't be fixed with hard work and a little time (which actually is a lot of how he conducted himself in our lives together). I told him that I don't want to sort out separation agreements or custody until after the baby's born (which he still says he'd like to attend) and he's okay with that. I'm worried that he'll begin the proceedings and get some sort of 'leg up' on me, is that possible? Does it matter is one partner has a 'lead' on the other in terms of documents and stuff? So I don't need to hold out on hope. Or wonder if I've made the right decision. I reiterated that if he wants out due to feeling stressed or overwhelmed then I'd be here for him, and I can feel sure that I've done all I can right now. Maybe he'll absorb what I said during the next month or so, and the 2x4 of babydom will smack his ass back here, but I doubt it. He said that he doesn't want to be a dad or have the responsibilities of homelife and husband-ness (he refused to use those words, but when I layed it out like that he didn't deny it). He just is not the man I married, whether due to some personal crisis, an OW, the 'bachelor' life he's been living, because I'm a terrible wife, or our kids are hellions, I guess it doesn't matter. I don't feel bad (yet?) about the way I've behaved in our marriage or during the course of the last few weeks. I aknowledge that there were things that we both did that contributed to the deconstruction of our marriage (the usuals - communication, intimacy, interest) but I didn't think that we'd need to end it due to these issues. And I was willing to go back and try to fix it together. I have no idea how I will feel tomorrow, but now I'm tired and drained. Thanks for reading.
Gunny376 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 He doesn't want to work on it. I told him that I've been conflicted between wanting to work on our marriage and being relieved that my kids will be spared this embarassment of a man as their father. And I continued not to hold back. But it's funny-ish since we've never really fought before (believe it or not!) and yet I knew where he'd go. He got the most defensive around his father (who cheated on his mother for at least 2 years with hookers and with another woman) when I called his dad out for what he was, and around the OW (whom he's still maintaining has nothing to do with this). He didn't even get upset when I asked him to tell me out loud that he wants to leave his 8 months pregnant wife and two small children - in fact he snickered. F***er. I was fairly calm, but I did get heated but not yelling. I just figured that I had nothing to lose, and so was able to say what I was feeling. I know I haven't/won't change his mind, but at some level I hope he's heard what I've said and will be able to remember. The only thing that i'm concerned of is that I've made him mad and now don't have him in a spot. But I don't even think that it matters since it wouldn't be hard to get the financial support that I'll need from him (in terms of courts and lawyers). We did talk about money, and he's continuing to agree to what we initially set out, and I imagine that's some strange sense of responsibility - just buy out what can't be fixed with hard work and a little time (which actually is a lot of how he conducted himself in our lives together). I told him that I don't want to sort out separation agreements or custody until after the baby's born (which he still says he'd like to attend) and he's okay with that. I'm worried that he'll begin the proceedings and get some sort of 'leg up' on me, is that possible? Does it matter is one partner has a 'lead' on the other in terms of documents and stuff? So I don't need to hold out on hope. Or wonder if I've made the right decision. I reiterated that if he wants out due to feeling stressed or overwhelmed then I'd be here for him, and I can feel sure that I've done all I can right now. Maybe he'll absorb what I said during the next month or so, and the 2x4 of babydom will smack his ass back here, but I doubt it. He said that he doesn't want to be a dad or have the responsibilities of homelife and husband-ness (he refused to use those words, but when I layed it out like that he didn't deny it). He just is not the man I married, whether due to some personal crisis, an OW, the 'bachelor' life he's been living, because I'm a terrible wife, or our kids are hellions, I guess it doesn't matter. I don't feel bad (yet?) about the way I've behaved in our marriage or during the course of the last few weeks. I aknowledge that there were things that we both did that contributed to the deconstruction of our marriage (the usuals - communication, intimacy, interest) but I didn't think that we'd need to end it due to these issues. And I was willing to go back and try to fix it together. I have no idea how I will feel tomorrow, but now I'm tired and drained. Thanks for reading. There were so may "tears" in that post I thought I was taking a shower? It PMO so much, that I wanted to tell "Mr Reality" ~ Chill! This one's mine! I'm going to wear this AH out with this Louiville Slugger of yours!" I can understand a lot of things ~ but damn you don't kick someone when they're pregno, and two little ones on the side, and eight months at that! WTF! Dump this loser ~ he's no man. If he was my SIL, I'd kick his ass! I'd drive down to the local Ace hardware, buy myself a hickory ax handle and wear his ass out with it. And, I'd probally go to jail, but the SOB would have a clear and pretty picture in his head when I got done "walking talll" on his azz! By God!
mum2three Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 It's ok. You'll be ok. It is hard to not waiver about the M because you are about to have this man's child and you already have kids with him. This is not a time to be abandoned. He is really not seeing the light of day. I know it hurts like mad and you are dealing with so much right now. But your gut feeling is probably going to be right. Everything will be clearer in a few months. He may be lost and going thru a personal crisis but you need a man who can stand up and face his responsibilities. Where is his moral character and integrity? Btw LJ, thanks for the reply.
Author mammax3 Posted May 5, 2007 Author Posted May 5, 2007 Good morning. I'm still tired, but I had a good sleep last night, I think I just feel more peaceful that I'm not keeping all my emotions inside. Thanks Gunny. I hope that Mr. Reality does get at 'im some time, since I was unable to do the job over the phone, and he's too far away from my family and friends. But that's Karma, and it's not just between me & him, but our kids have karma too, and heck, they're just kids... It's going to be NASTY for him! I'm okay. I think I really needed to hear what a selfish f*ck he really is in order to stop hoping that he'll turn around. It's going to be a long road, but I've got it in me. And my kids are so terrific and I know (like you said in your post Gunny) that I need them, and they need me, and that helps huge. I was interested in the fact that Gunny said that Dr. Phil's book Relationship Rescue would help even after dicorce and during (in Dave's thread). I got his Self Matters, since I didn't think the relationship one would be effective now. But if it's still recommended, I'll read that too.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 I told him that I don't want to sort out separation agreements or custody until after the baby's born (which he still says he'd like to attend) and he's okay with that. I'm worried that he'll begin the proceedings and get some sort of 'leg up' on me, is that possible? Does it matter is one partner has a 'lead' on the other in terms of documents and stuff? Talk to your attorney about that. I'm not a legal expert, but the only thing that concerns me about who files first is temporary custody orders. It usually takes a few weeks to get back into court and challenge them, so I doubt that I'd leave even a minuscule opportunity for a WS to have an order granted. Like I've told you before... when I post to you, I try to give you things to think about without telling you what to do. Whatever you decide to do needs to be right for you and your kids. But to be honest... I, personally, don't have the patience you do. I'd have given him a day or two to pull his head out of his ass and then I'd have have filed divorce on him. And I'd have pulled out every stop to find out who he's f*cking and sued him on grounds of adultery. I'd have "exposed" pretty much everywhere, and he'd be lucky to get a cup of coffee back in his hometown without the waitresses pointing and snickering. He just is not the man I married, whether due to some personal crisis, an OW, the 'bachelor' life he's been living, because I'm a terrible wife, or our kids are hellions, I guess it doesn't matter. I don't feel bad (yet?) about the way I've behaved in our marriage or during the course of the last few weeks. Sweetie.. You have handled yourself with REMARKABLE grace. Be proud of that. Talking to a WS is like talking to a body-snatcher. You never know if the real man is still inside or not, but you've treated him with dignity and respect anyway. It's alot more than I could have done if I were in your position, believe me. p.s. Remember you do NOT have to allow him to attend the birth if you're uncomfortable with it. I'm not saying you should or you shouldn't. But I do want to see you suit yourself FIRST in this decision.
Sheba Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Mamma - your story is indeed, as Gunny said, full of tears. The man you married? He is gone. Or never was. Stop looking for him. Get everything you can from this a**hole and move on. Amidst the tears your posts reveal a lot of strength and wisdom. I can see that you are able to make a life for those babies and yourself without that fourth child who is masquerading as a man. I think you have received wonderful advice from LadyJane. She is quite right to see this point in time as one when you must exploit your advantages to get as much as possible from the a**hole, for the sake of your babies. LadyJane has given you some good ideas about strategy, and you should try your best to focus on these manuverings since they will bear more fruit for you than mourning the loss of your marriage. I would love to be your lawyer - it would be almost too easy to get what you are entitled to and more. On one side of the equation is the a**hole and his mistress, on the other side is a beautiful madonna (all pregnant women are beautiful, mamma) and two sweet babies. The scales are so tipped in your favour I think the a**hole isn't even on the scales! I think that perhaps the only mistake LadyJane might be making is taking you down the path of thinking you can keep the OW from being around the children. I don't think that is a good idea or realistic. First of all, trying to keep her from the children is, in a way, trying to control the a**hole's relationship with her. You are, in a way, still trying to protect your marriage from her. I think you need to stop thinking that way. He has made his absurd choice. Secondly, I don't believe that you will find support for this position in the legal system. She must be PROVEN to be somehow bad for the children's welfare, and I don't think having an affair with a married man stands as proof of that. Assume that woman WILL be around your children. I would ask for some information about her. Is she a parent and therefore able to help the a**hole care for the children during his access visits? Does she smoke, and if she does, will she agree to do so outside, away from the children? Is she a drinker? Does she have a criminal record? Since your a**hole clearly cannot be trusted to behave like a grown up, can she? You need to know her name and facts about her so that you can feel your children will be safe during access visits. There is some advantage, I believe, in being "the first to file". So, consider starting on your divorce. The advantage may be merely psychological - but you need to give yourself moral support, so that alone may make it worthwhile for you to intiate things! Also, it is better to be on the offensive than the defensive in any battle. Discuss this with your lawyer and contemplate the satisfaction you might get from having the a**hole served with divorce papers at work. Keep your chin up, mamma. You DO have it all - those babies are everything. The a**hole is changing the course of his life in ways he can't realize. He is giving up the right to be a full-fledged parent to those babies. He will miss them learning to walk and talk and read. 18 years from now, when he is at his child's graduation, he won't be entitled to take pride in their accomplishment. He will have so little of them and you will have so much. You will be rich, he will be poor, in the way that really matters.
Gunny376 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Thanks. You think being a parent is great ~ wait until you become a grandparent. It was my GS, bath time, little guy (age 3) had broken his foot and was in a cast. Told Mama, "Weave me alone!" and that's when she told him, "No, I need you and you need me!" ~ and it was just a thought provoking moment for me?! Yes, eventually I would recommend reading "Relationship Rescue" ~ in time. There's a workbook that goes with "Self Matters" that I recommend. Going hand in hand with breakups and divorce of course is personal finance. I highly recommend Dave Ramsey's "Complete Money Makeover" and Mary Hunts "Debtproof Living" along with Liz Pulliam Weston's "Deal With You Debt" (if you buy or read just one book this year ~ get this book!). Speaking of karma ~ how about making a little of your own ~ Rhonda Bryne's "The Secret" I highly recommend. Mama, I'd like to see you like Breada. Brenda is a single mother of three that I sold a car to during my brief car selling carrer of six months. She'd just finished her Masters in education, just got a new job teaching, just bought a new two story house. When we ran her credit, the print out went from the ceiling to the floor ~ all paid out accounts. Her credit score was over 750. The F&I said she could buy anything she wanted ~ all she needed was a pen! When I asked her about all the paid out accounts? "Oh that was my stupid XH ~ he doesn't even pay child support, (turning to her little pre-school daughter), but we don't need him anyway ~ right?" (I sold her a loaded out Maxima with a "bone chunker" ~ sun roof for throwing your chicken bones and beer cans out as you tool down the highway! )
Ladyjane14 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 I think that perhaps the only mistake LadyJane might be making is taking you down the path of thinking you can keep the OW from being around the children. I don't think that is a good idea or realistic. First of all, trying to keep her from the children is, in a way, trying to control the a**hole's relationship with her. You are, in a way, still trying to protect your marriage from her. I think you need to stop thinking that way. He has made his absurd choice. Secondly, I don't believe that you will find support for this position in the legal system. She must be PROVEN to be somehow bad for the children's welfare, and I don't think having an affair with a married man stands as proof of that. While it's true that you can't keep an OM/OW away from your kids indefinitely... it's NOT necessary to make it easy for them. The bottom line, as I've said before, is that an OM/OW is someone who doesn't understand personal boundaries in any kind of appropriate way. It's not always a matter of protecting the marriage, particularly a defunct one... it's about protecting the children. Their father would likely be a BETTER father to them without this person, who lacks respect of other people, creating negative energy in his life. Better that this affair should blow up in his face and free him to find another partner who might be a more positive influence. The longer Mamma can keep the OW away... the more stress on the EMR. And even though it's not possible to keep her completely away.... I would KNOW all there was to know about her before she came anywhere NEAR my kids, and what's more... she'd know to mind her place. So, while I'm in agreement that a full investigation is certainly a worthwhile endeavor... I also think it's necessary to create a fairly large window of TIME. Children shouldn't be exposed to a "revolving door" of their parent's lovers. So regardless if we're talking about an EMR or a new relationship post-divorce, exposure to a new romantic interest shouldn't happen right away.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Sweetie.. You have handled yourself with REMARKABLE grace. Be proud of that. Talking to a WS is like talking to a body-snatcher. You never know if the real man is still inside or not, but you've treated him with dignity and respect anyway. It's alot more than I could have done if I were in your position, believe me. I completely agree with this, I just don't know how you've done it. I would like to say that my lawyer told me that it was important to be the one to file as you establish the tone.
Sheba Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 LadyJane I agree it is self-evident that a person who is "dating" a married man lacks boundaries, and the idea of the children witnessing a "revolving door of lovers" is a nightmare for all divorced parents. My own ex-husband is a terrible example of this sort of conduct. He has insisted on introducing my children to even the most casual dates. He has exposed them to a couple of very unstable individuals. All I can do is try to be a counterbalance and pray he stays with the current woman, who seems very normal. I just don't know that it is realistic for mamma to hope to accomplish a delay, or otherwise interfere in his "relationship". Or, that it would matter in mamma's case. Her children are little. They will easily forget this woman when the a**hole replaces her with the next.
GreenEyedLady Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Talk to your attorney about that. I'm not a legal expert, but the only thing that concerns me about who files first is temporary custody orders. It usually takes a few weeks to get back into court and challenge them, so I doubt that I'd leave even a minuscule opportunity for a WS to have an order granted.quote] Listen to LJ on this...TALK TO YOUR LAWYER...if neither of you file and you leave it in limbo, he WON'T have to pay you anything...I'm not saying he'll do that, but until there is a court order, he doesn't HAVE TO DO anything...he'll owe you back support but what you need is money on a daily basis, so you need support asap... And it depends on the state that you live in as to how custody goes...your H may not even fight you on it...if he does, the court in my state usually keeps the custody arrangement pretty consistent with what they already have...but they WERE generous to my XH...the good thing is that now he doesn't even take the kids 1/2 the time the courts granted him now (It was a 63% me 37% him arrangment)...he really flaked in the last year... And depending on your state, don't hold your breath that the court will keep anyone away from your kids...my best friends H left her for a stripper and she had a 4 month old and 8 year old...and the courts here allowed for overnight visitations at the woman's house for the 8 year old, as he lived there (she was nursing the baby so the father didn't take the baby overnight)... Whether your H has a high level of guilt coupled with how much he wants the D will determine what he actually agrees to... Just try and take care of yourself and your beautiful children...what will be, will be...Listen to everything your attorney says, and make sure your attorney knows what he is doing...get references...
Author mammax3 Posted May 6, 2007 Author Posted May 6, 2007 Thank you everyone for your encouragment and support and concern. You are all so terrific. I never thought of the benefits to being the first to file. I thought it would show that I wanted the divorce more than him, and thus would leave me in a 'weaker' position of needing to settle and make more concessions. But I think I'll make an appointment and talk to my attorney, find out what he thinks. LJ: "files first is temporary custody orders. It usually takes a few weeks to get back into court and challenge them, so I doubt that I'd leave even a minuscule opportunity for a WS to have an order granted." Do you mean that he'd potentially get to ask for more if he filed first? With the kids, too? So the filer gets to lay down the initial ground rules? I've told H that I'd like to wait to deal with the legal aspects but I'm wondering if he's sitting over there with papers drawn waiting until the baby's born to spring them on me. I hate the sense of mistrust but i don't want to be bent over the barrel anymore than I already am! Gunny: "Brenda is a single mother of three that I sold a car to during my brief car selling carrer of six months. She'd just finished her Masters in education, just got a new job teaching" Wow! She sounds like an extraordinary woman. This woman, combined with the info y'all gave me before about him paying for training etc has really made me think into furthering my education - later of course!! Especially if it's on his dime . Sheba: "You will be rich, he will be poor, in the way that really matters." I can't even tell you how much I agree with your post about kids. It's amazing (and sad) that he's choosing a life without knowing them, and knowing how much happiness and fulfillment they give. And he's CHOOSING that life. What a nutter. He's got them right here, and he's saying, No, Thanks I'd prefer an emptier life without as much happiness. Wow. "Children shouldn't be exposed to a "revolving door" of their parent's lovers." I agree with this too. It seems impossible right now that I'll ever date or be interested in a man, and yet I imagine that it will happen when I'm ready. And I don't want them to see me (OR H) in the dating world. It's not healthy. Thank you IfWisheswerehorses and LJ, for your words on my patience and treating him with dignity and respect. I'm amazed on how much I'm learning about myself through this process. I guess everyone would *have* to learn something, but I'm proud of the way I'm trying to keep it together and still be a 'bigger' person, it is mostly for the kids but for me too since I have to live inside this skin. And LJ, I understand that you're trying to give me things to think about (and believe me, you're all doing a fantastic job of that! I really appreciate it!) and not trying to influence my decisions too much. I'm the only one in my situation who can decide what's the best course of action for me and my babes given the info that he's showing me. It's of course hard not to know what's going to happen (with the divorce, him suddenly 'waking up' one morning realizing his mistake, the nearly-AM I'm going to marry next, who knows! ) but it's the most important that I do what's right for me and the kids right now with what I know. Which is why I'm glad that LS is here and you all too.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 6, 2007 Posted May 6, 2007 Do you mean that he'd potentially get to ask for more if he filed first? With the kids, too? So the filer gets to lay down the initial ground rules? I've told H that I'd like to wait to deal with the legal aspects but I'm wondering if he's sitting over there with papers drawn waiting until the baby's born to spring them on me. I hate the sense of mistrust but i don't want to be bent over the barrel anymore than I already am! I don't know 'zip' about Canadian family law, but right now he's probably got the same equal right to the children that you do. GEL's earlier point about him not having to provide financial resources unless he does so voluntarily is likely to apply to matters concerning the children as well. There is NO ORDER in place leaving them exclusively in your custody. When I went to an attorney a few years ago bent on divorce... there was NOTHING in place to prevent me from picking up the kids and moving out of state even. All my husband would be able to do at that point is to petition the court for their return, which would likekly have been granted, but he'd have had to cool his heels until the matter could be addressed by the court. What's more, I'd have fought him on it, filing an appeal to the court's decision immediately. I don't want to wind you up and make you nervous right now when you're about to give birth ... but like I said earlier, I'd have been the first to file. I'd have struck fast and struck hard. To my mind, the best defense is a good offense.
Gunny376 Posted May 6, 2007 Posted May 6, 2007 ... but like I said earlier, I'd have been the first to file. I'd have struck fast and struck hard. To my mind, the best defense is a good offense. Yea?! But, you're from the South ~ a Redneck Girl (Hell Yea!), and like a pit bull, junkyard dog? Forget the arm? You'd go for that thar' azz!
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