We're all done

[Gunny376]

BTW ~ forgot to add!

 

Hell Yea! I'd be inviting everyone to "this" party!

 

You call a liar ~ a damn liar!

You call a thief ~ a damn thief!

You call a rapist ~ a dam rapist!

You call a crook ~ a damn crook!

You call a cheater~ a damned cheater!

 

This guys walking out on a pregno wife with two children for another woman? WTF is that about? That's pretty damn sorry and no good in my book! With a (so-called) husband like that, who the Hell needs enemies?

 

When I went through this seventeen years ago ~ when my wife left me for another guy that she'd barely known for six months, I gave her everything from a twelve year marriage, took on all the bills from the marriage, (to include her car payment), worked a second job, etc.

 

I didn't do it for her! I did it because I knew divorced sucked. I did it for my children. To give them the best childhood that I could. I took as much as I could on myself. I sucked it up and dealt with it ~ and you can believe its was all-day hard ~ every freaking day for the last seventeen years. Its only been in the last four years that I've just now gotten back to where I was seventeen years ago.

 

Some might call me a fool for having done so ~ but my children are two well adjusted, mature, responsible, self dependent adults. My daughter bought her first car on her own with just her signature (No money down ~ although she put some down) at age 21. She bought her first house without any help at age 24. My son is doing equally well, and is one of the most sought after bachelors around town. His junior and senior year, he took two different girls to two different proms ~ and they all four asked him.

 

He's got a damn good job, making damn good money to be 23. When he left his last job for the one he's got now, they begged him to stay, and offered him his own company truck to go back and forth to work on with them footing the gas bill.

 

I told him what the deal was, and how to be successful in life. I told him that he had to go out, get a job, learn his trade, become good at it, then become damn good at it, and then master it. That he had to build a reputation for dependability, reliability.

.

 

Once you have children? Its not about you anymore ~ its about them! If that means you go without, do without? Oh well!

 

The biggest factor in your finding yourself someone else ~ in time ~ is going to be in how well your children are self disciplined.

 

Well behaved, self disciplined children are a joy. Its the woman with three spoiled brats we men don't won't to get with.

 

In the long run ~ you're going to be better off without this guy in your life! If I were you? I'd be some kind of seriously PO that he's moving a thousand miles away abandoning his children ~ not just me! That's all day sorrier than Hell!

 

Get a divorce? Fine! But, his sorry-ass needs to be moving back closer to home to help raise those children! That's all day sorrier than Hell!

 

I gave up probally the best relationship of my life ~ to move back home to be close to my children and now (Tomorrow's his B'day ) three year old grandson! {That I'm going to go see tomorrow } And I don't regret it for one second!

 

I could move to some port city and make five times the money I make now based upon what I did in the Marines for twenty years ~ easy? (Logistics ~ loading ships, trains, and airplanes) ,...............but you know what? Its not always about money? There's quality of life, relationships, commitments, obligations, and responsiblity. Plus? I've gotten use to the low-stress, no-stress way of living and I like it! A lot!

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some people (men and women) can just throw everything away over a piece of ass!

[mammax3]

Thanks Gunny! Your mother sounds incredibly strong and that she has tremendous spirit (and balls!).

 

Ya, that is definitely *not* how I was raised. We were all lovey feely and to think about how the other person feels and to try and be nice. Self-introspection was encouraged, and many conversations could (and still can) be had about feelings and emotions. Not that I disagree it's just that it doesn't lend itself to overt modes of conflict.

 

What I'm gathering from your posts is that no one else will stand up for me in this situation (my family IS really supportive, but some things have to be done for oneself) and so I've got to make sure I'm being heard regardless of the outcome. So I can be confident that i'm being true to myself. I have to take the time I need, if that means in conversations with him, or with when I'm going to proceed with legalities of separating. It is very hard to do while I'm being all emotional and I can't really separate myself from me... pregnant or not. And I agree with your well behaved children are a joy. My kids (and I'm sure all parents say this) really are well behaved (minus the occasional face squishing and hits over the head!) but they listen to me and are polite and I've got no bones about how I'm raising them. I read up on developmental issues so I can try to separate what's 'normal' for a 2yo vs having a potential spolied brat. And like I've said, I got great family support (from his family too).

 

I guess regardless of how I react to this situation (wanting to make it work, accepting his desire to leave, persuing my own lines of separation agreements etc) the bottom line is that he's put us in this situation and I need to secure my kids and myself. There is still the 'friend' and the fact that I'm pregnant and he didn't have the balls to tell me that he's unhappy but he's going to stay for at least X months to make sure me and the kids are ok. My mother keeps calling him immoral.

 

Thank you everyone for being so candid in your assessment of what a piece of sh*t he is. It's sometimes hard for me to see him as that (i know, how ridiculous) since I'm all mixed up in our history and the feelings I have (had?) for him - my family is very pissed, but that's because they're family. I think I will ultimately be better off without him, but it's taking a long time to see that. I'd be livid if a friends H did this to her, regardless of the events causing a separation - the baby's not even born yet! The mother has to go through delivery and the very crazy months after! And the H just bails?? How ridiculous. (Hm, it helps to see it from that perspective!)

 

Thanks everyone! I'll let you know how later today goes (I'll probably peek back in here to hitch up my balls and get a dose of 'spit and vinegar'! )

[Ladyjane14]

Thank you everyone for being so candid in your assessment of what a piece of sh*t he is. It's sometimes hard for me to see him as that ...

 

I'm not sure that's necessarily true though.

 

Certainly, his actions are sh*tty. But really, we don't know enough about him to say for sure that he's without hope of redemption.

 

Say for example, in the case of StubbornButNice, she had a guy who walked out on her without even looking her in the eye. He's got a history of controlling behavior, emotionally and financially. And he THINKS he's smarter than she is, and treats her accordingly. :mad:

 

But it's hard to say in your case, at least it is for me ... because we haven't seen much of his personality through your posts. Granted, we can only develop our opinions based on what you post, which is your assessment and only half the story. I can definitely see conflict avoidance on his part, and poor judgment in this particular instance, but I can't encourage you to throw in the towel based on just that.

 

In general terms... it's not all that unusual for a guy to 'flake' when he's just starting his family. It's mostly about underlying anxiety which he, himself, hasn't identified as causal to his general sense of unhappiness. Guys like that tend to redirect that energy into affair behavior. Since they haven't really identified the feelings of unease.. they tend to blame those feelings on their spouse. They feel 'trapped' by their familial responsibilities and unequal to the task before them. But they don't KNOW that's what they're feeling.

 

Your guy has a family history of poor male role models. He hasn't been taught to deal with these feelings. Men overall, tend to feel responsible for the well being of the entire family. They're trained societally to be "the buck stops here" guy. And your man has no working model on how to deal with that.

 

It's possible that he's flipping out and has redirected his energy to an OW. This allows a guy like that to find a concrete reason... at least in his mind... for the vague feelings of unease he's been experiencing. He tells himself it's all because he's with the wrong person and if he finds the "right" person, everything will fall into place. Now... once he gets caught up in an affair, he's juiced with all those 'feel-good' chemicals caused by the infatuation. He starts feeling better. And THIS convinces him that his theory was correct.

 

All the while, he NEVER realizes that the causes were within him all along.

He will either mature with more years and experience, or he will repeat offend.

 

So... you see that this isn't necessarily about you misreading his character. I'm not saying that this is what's definitely going on. I can't tell from here. But there IS the possibility that this guy is just under-the-influence of anxiety and hormones.

 

Anyway, I still think it's imperative that you manage your stress level due to the pregnancy. Because of that, I'm hesitant to recommend to you that you play hardball right now. I'd rather see you stall for time if I could have my druthers until you're stronger.

 

Like I said in my last post, I kind of think it's possible to intimidate this fellow a little bit. He'd have to be a MONSTER to dump his heavily pregnant wife and two little ones without experiencing any guilt. So, I think you can use that to your advantage.

 

Bear in mind dear, that you can't lose what's already been lost, right? You're afraid of putting a toe wrong because you're thinking that if you make a mistake you'll close the door on your options. But you can't let that fear paralyze you.

 

So... say to him whatever it is that you need to say. If it was me, I'd refuse to cooperate with any discussion of divorce right now and I'd tell him to get his ass home. Six months is not too much to ask. Tell him if he has ANY hope of making this an amicable split, he'll give you six months and do it YOUR way.

 

In the meantime, I'd line up MC and I would expose him to his mother. He'll be pissed, and he'll go off like a roman candle... but in the end, you're putting a support system in place around him. The more people he can rely on who are NOT the OW, people who REALLY love him and have his best interest at heart.. the more you break his reliance upon her.

 

If he doesn't want to go to MC, call it family counseling designed to help the two of you co-parent effectively. You just need to get him through the door.

Marriage counseling isn't terribly effective when an affair is ongoing, that's true. But in order to bust up that affair, you need more information about what's going on. You need time. And you need access to your husband. For right now, all you're hoping to accomplish with that is to see if a qualified therapist can assess him and possibly diagnose the anxiety we talked about earlier.

 

In the meantime, see an attorney. First things first.. SECURE YOUR PERIMETER. You're going to feel a whole lot more confident when you know what your options are, and when you've put together a plan to keep your family floating regardless of any outcome on the marriage.

 

Next in priority... do your RECONNAISSANCE. This affair needs to be busted up, and you can't do that without knowing what's going on. Hey, if I had the OW's phone number, I'd call it. In your condition, I think that's a bad idea though because it could result in a spike in blood pressure.

 

So what I'd say to you is to have one of your girlfriends do it. Hey, there's no way to know that the OW even knows he's married. And if she does, there's no telling what other 'stories' he might be telling her. He could be telling her that you two are separated, that he's filed for divorce, that he's ALREADY divorced, or any number of things.

 

It's okay to be cagey too.

Here's a brilliant post by Boshemia that I found in the Infidelity forum. Bear in mind that most affair partners are co-workers, so you might have to devise another backstory:

 

 

You could use my Mom's trick. It worked pretty well for flushing out the truth. She found a girls phone number on a note, and a name. So she called the number pretending to be someone from work. She said they hadn't heard from him in a few days and they were getting worried, they just wanted to know if he was OK, he wasn't answering his phone and this number was found at his desk.

 

The girl said she had heard from him the previous day and he was fine. She identified herself as his fiance, and when my Mom said actually, this is his wife. The girl burst into tears. He had told her that he was married, but that his wife was in a mental institution and State law won't let you divorce a mentally incompetent person!

 

I don't know if it will work as well for you as it did for my mom, the two girls got together for a few drinks then went looking for him to have a talk. He was happy to see his fiance, not so happy to see who she brought with her.

__________________

[sumdude]

I'm not sure that's necessarily true though.

 

Certainly, his actions are sh*tty. But really, we don't know enough about him to say for sure that he's without hope of redemption.

 

__________________

 

LJ,

I can see giving some benefit of the doubt here considering the situation..

 

But if it walks like a duck...

 

Either way securing financial support for the kids, pregnancy etc must be first priority! Time for the momma grizzly bear to come out and protect her cubs. If it serves as a blow to the head wake up call for "Mr. Won't Deal With Reality" then fine. Maybe he'll see the light.. but you can't count on it.

[mammax3]

LJ, You and Gunny are like the little angels that sit on my shoulders!

Thanks for another perspective. It's so hard not knowing where this is going to go - but I guess that's life.

 

LJ, You said: "it's not all that unusual for a guy to 'flake' when he's just starting his family. It's mostly about underlying anxiety which he, himself, hasn't identified as causal to his general sense of unhappiness. Guys like that tend to redirect that energy into affair behavior. Since they haven't really identified the feelings of unease.. they tend to blame those feelings on their spouse. They feel 'trapped' by their familial responsibilities and unequal to the task before them. But they don't KNOW that's what they're feeling."

 

And that's the crux of it. I sincerely feel that this is what's happend. He's become overwhelmed with our life and is looking to ease that anxiety in the only way he's dealt with anything - ending it, or running away. But to tell him that would only make him defensive, so I think you're right about the MC (or family counselling, a term I *love*, thanks for the idea!) and then it can be brought out and discovered. Of course I can benefit too, since I grew up without a 'dad' in the house, and I have no idea how men and women interact in a family setting as a team. I thought he and I had been, in a way, but now I see that we really weren't. But he needs to be here.

 

You've given me a look at what cards I am holding (I thought if i played too hard, he'd withhold money, or visits to see the kids, write me off as a crazy bitch etc). A major desire he's had (previously, if not now!) was to be ina secure and safe relationship since that's what he's been missing. But he didn't know what it was going to be like at the head of a family. And it's hard work!! And he thinks that it's acceptable to abandon that role and leave all the hard work for me and become 'Disney Dad'... He doesn't think that life should be hard work (get at him Gunny!) and now as our relationship becomes harder and has more struggles, then he wants to bail. He doesn't know how to tough out the hard times. He really doesn't. But I know (or I have to have faith in) the fact that he really desires the closeness and positives that a family can offer. He just needs help on how to attain and maintain that state.

 

I hope I can show him all this. The last time we talked (last week while he was here) I ended up on board with him for this separation. He's probably (what's that word you used somewhere Gunny? not Boinking, but something funny like that) 'with' that woman now, if he wasn't before. So it'll come as a surprise to him that I've done a 180. Whatever, I was surprised earlier when he came home and told me that the spark was gone.

 

We've phone tagged a bit tonight, but so far not talked. So all this may have to wait til tomorrow. Ugh. I'm seeing his mother this week to tell her about the OW. Thanks to all of you for keeping me sane and supported through all this. I'd really be struggling on my own, and that'd definately stress me out! And my two other kids!

[Gunny376]

He's probably (what's that word you used somewhere Gunny? not Boinking, but something funny like that) 'with' that woman now, if he wasn't before

 

They be "scroggin!"

[mammax3]

That's the one, Gunny. It cracked me up on another thread, I'd never heard it before.

[Ladyjane14]

The last time we talked (last week while he was here) I ended up on board with him for this separation. He's probably (what's that word you used somewhere Gunny? not Boinking, but something funny like that) 'with' that woman now, if he wasn't before.

 

Sweetie... it's highly unlikely that he waited for your permission to leave the marriage before having sex outside it.

 

I'm not saying it never happens, because it does... but I think it's fairly rare for a guy to seek divorce when he's not already engaged in a sexual affair. In those cases there are usually some pretty big problems within the marriage, and I'm talking BAD problems.... self-evident as neon signs, and seemingly irreparable to the parties involved.

 

In general terms, men tend to develop a greater sense of emotional intimacy when they're involved in a sexual relationship. Not to say that they aren't better equipped to compartmentalize sexual behavior than women are. They are, if fact, masters of it comparatively.

 

It's a weird thing, but they can use a woman for sex and feel nothing special for her.. but once their heart is engaged, sexual intimacy becomes the most usual expression of their feelings. That's why guys feel so "rejected" when they're sexually starved within the marital relationship.

 

This kind of works both ways too... the sexual relationship can trigger these 'love feelings'. So, a guy who's emotionally vulnerable can find himself believing that he's "in love" with a woman he wouldn't even be especially fond of if he wasn't having sex with her... a woman that he might have "compartmentalized" or not bothered with at all, if not for his emotional vulnerability.

 

Anyway... my point is this. Nothing you said last weekend is likely to have changed the parameters of your WH's affair. The most likely scenario is that the affair has been ongoing and sexual for some time. It takes a while for a guy to get his gumption up enough to abandon his wife and family. I think if you gain access to your complete financial records and detail accounts on the cell phones... you'll find a history of wayward behavior extending back at least a few months.

[mammax3]

Thanks for the reference to StubbornbutNice, LJ. I'm only on page 4 and I'm eager to finish reading, yet I don't want to miss any pages or posts - It's hard to read up on her life while my two little ones scamper about requiring care and I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my F*H. That being said, LJ, you don't find there's some parallels between us? I'm reading (again, just the beginning) and it sounds similar. My H isn't stringing me along (or so I don't think) but he does want us to be friends, wants me to sit still while he feeds it to me, and wants to make all the decisions - he hasn't asked me one Q about ANYTHING!!

 

I've been thinking these last few days, combined with SBN's thread, and the info I'm getting from LS, and my own family's input I'm warming to the idea of life without him (at least life as it was - as you put it in SBN's thread, LJ, the marriage I knew *is* dead, and I don't want it back). I'm still hurt, and angry but I'm really beginning to 'find my pair' and get it going. I don't want this man to be the exemplar of manliness to my kids. And Gunny you posted somewhere about the AlphaMale :love: ooh whoo hook me up with somma him!! That helped me realize that I have been settling with H. But it's scary to say that out loud, since I am pregnant and have 2 young kids already. What sort of crazy woman wants no support??! I guess (to say it out loud) I'm afraid of what people will think, which I know is stupid, but i am being honest here...

 

I've got an appointment with a lawyer this week and I've been to my Dr.'s for a prenatal. I'm completely healthy but my weight is down too much for her liking. My blood pressure and heart rate are all good and the baby is growing well, so no problems there. I'm thinking of seeing a therapist to discuss all this with. I"m still debating that.

 

I did believe that he wasn't having sex out there. Which is naive, I guess. Like SBN, I'm remembering the man that he was not the man he has obviously become, since my old man would NEVER have done all this.

 

At some point in the next few days we will talk. I hope to speak to my lawyer before that so I can plan a bit better what to say.

 

I don't think that he'll come back. I don't think he wants this marriage. I don't even think he wants to be a dad. My poor kids. That makes me cry each time. I thought I had made a good choice for them, and I certainly haven't. (it's ok, no violins necessary, but I am really sad for them).

[mammax3]

Welcome to my hormonal world.

 

It was tough putting the kids to bed tonight. But even 5 minutes later I realized that I have the prize. Yah, he gets to drive his car in the fast lane without ANY baby seats in the back, have the 'freedom' of going out when he wants to, and whatever else he's said. But I have the kids. And really, even while they're crying about going to bed, I wouldn't switch it. I couldn't be away from them. I would have a hole the size of Kentuky in my heart and soul.

 

That really helped put things in perspective. And for the first time, I realize that I can date. Ooh. I've never done that. I'm not looking for a potential husband. I'll be able to go out to dinners and meet interesting people and have a good time. Not any time soon, of course, but some time when I'm ready.

 

This will all no doubt change tomorrow. But I'm in a really good space right now.

[Gunny376]

Its essential ( and from this side, its sounds as though for the most part that your are) that you be in control of your emotions, exert self control, and be strong minded ~ even to the point of controlling and channeling your thoughts.

 

Quite literally the thoughts that you allow in your mind ~ ( and yesyou can control them) is what life is going to bring to you. I kid you not! I’ve always known this intuitively at least to some extent all of my life.

 

During those things when I allowed myself to worry and to dwell on negative thinking ~ bad things happen to me. Those times when I defaulted to positive thinking and refused to dwell on negative things, and concentrate and focus on the positive, and to look pass the problem to the solution, good things happened to me.

 

To become a good marksman with a rifle or pistol (I’m a 20 years expert with both) the shooter has to focus first on the rear sight, then the target, then the front sight through the rear sight at the target ~ back and forth ~ back and forth. Its called sight alignment and sight picture. Its kind of hard to explain without being there and some graphics.

 

At any rate, to get to my point that your thoughts bring to you what you need and want in life, get Ye down to WalMart and pickup the book "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne. ISBN -13: 978-1-58270-170-7 & ISBN-10: 1-58270-170-9 (For those that don’t know ~ an ISBN No. # is the number on the inside cover by which you order books from a book store. ISBN 13 is international and ISBN-10 cover the United States and Canada) $16.76.

 

In essence its visualization and the concept is dates back to at least 3,000 years. No person of historical greatness ever achieved what they did ~ without it. Its what Abe Lincoln was saying when he said ~ "Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" If you embrace the concepts of it ~ it will solve many of your problems in life.

 

It’s one of the greatest things you can teach your children.

______________________________________________________________________________

 

And Gunny you posted somewhere about the AlphaMale :love: ooh whoo hook me up with somma him!!

 

AlphaMales are rare ~ which is the reason they're Alpha Males. Any given man has the potential and propensity to become one ~ most never do. It requires walking on the razor's edge between being an Ashley (In Gone With the Wind) and a Rhett Butler. It requires prepetually staying on top of "your game" and the game is the game of life. Its understanding that the way to control your woman ~ is in understanding women and the woman your with! And, that's a life-long course you'll never complete, and will never graduate from!

 

You must first become Master of yourself before you become Master of anyone or anything. A very good book to read is "Shogun" by James Clavell. Its long 1500 pages. The best part of the book? The last two pages! Also "Taipain" by the same author. Its a novel, and they made a mini-series out of it years back. The movie doesn't do the book justice. When I read it, I was up for four days straight ~ I couldn't put it down! Its that good!

[mammax3]

This is the worst time of night for me. I Don't know what it is, but I'm almost always up right now with my thoughts. So frustrating.

 

So I'm really glad, Gunny, that you posted what and when you did. I've exerted self control in some ways (not calling when I want to ream him out, faxing his picture to his workplace, mostly revenge type things) and even controlling my emotions (my kids aren't seeing me collapsed on the sofa, crying day and night, still being 'me' for the most part) but it's my thoughts that I'm really struggling with. Angry thoughts, thoughts about what you all have said, things he's said, things I haven't said, the way I've been laying here taking it all from him... The helpless thoughts.

 

Thank you for the book reference. I'm all about reading, and I get a lot out of it (he unfortunately does not) so i think it'll ultimately make me stronger. I just don't know where to tuck the thoughts away to. (Was that you that posted somewhere about the evil wolf of hate and anger and the starving him? That's really stayed with me)

 

That's a real shame about Alpha Males. i guess women'd be all over him anyway... But if it's a hard walk between Ashley and Rhett, it seems there'd be a lot of variation in nearly AM's - which would mean 'my' AM may not be the same as another woman's AM, which means he's still potentially out there!

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks for the reference to StubbornbutNice, LJ. I'm only on page 4 and I'm eager to finish reading, yet I don't want to miss any pages or posts - It's hard to read up on her life while my two little ones scamper about requiring care and I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my F*H. That being said, LJ, you don't find there's some parallels between us?

 

I do see some parallels. As I said earlier, there certainly seems to be some conflict avoidance readily apparent, as well as a lack of good judgment in how he's handling his problems.

 

But I'm not getting a good enough 'read' on him through your posts to say if this is situational or if it's a lack of good character. In SBN's case, I've had more information, so I do believe it's a lack of integrity on her STBX's part and that it IS integral to his character. I think it surprised her though, because he'd kept this 'flawed integrity' under wraps well enough that she didn't see it coming.

 

Anyway... you can dump this guy anytime. He's earned it through his actions. I'm just trying to give you a feel for what options are available to you. If you don't want him back, that's not even something you should feel bad about at this point. And if you do want him back... he might be recoverable in terms of making you a decent husband, depending on if he's behaving in a way that's abnormal to his personality or not. I think you'd need a therapist's help in making that determination though.

 

I think you're under the impression that this guy will always be the weak and lily-livered clown he's presented to you over the course of the last few weeks. And you may very well be exactly right about that. I don't know.

But... if his behavior is situational and a symptom of a treatable underlying depression or anxiety, then it becomes a matter of if you WANT to try or not.

Nothing is guaranteed, but that doesn't mean you have to throw in the towel if you don't want to.

 

Added to all that.... there's also the question of IF you can forgive him for what he's done so far. Not every one is willing to forgive an infidelity. I, myself, probably would NOT forgive a physical affair.

 

This is ALOT for anybody to sift though and think about. And here you are, already with so much on your plate right now. You're at a very vulnerable place in your life. This is why I think it's better if you take your time and tackle one problem at time. "Securing your perimeter" is a good first step. So, I'm happy to hear that you've got an appointment with an attorney scheduled.

[Gunny376]

II think you're under the impression that this guy will always be the weak and lily-livered clown he's presented to you over the course of the last few weeks. And you may very well be exactly right about that. I don't know.

But... if his behavior is situational and a symptom of a treatable underlying depression or anxiety, then it becomes a matter of if you WANT to try or not.

Nothing is guaranteed, but that doesn't mean you have to throw in the towel if you don't want to.

 

Agreed! You can't "man-up" nor become an AM what without Mr. "R" (Reality) wearing that azz out a couple of times with a Louiville Slugger!

[mammax3]

LJ: "But I'm not getting a good enough 'read' on him through your posts to say if this is situational or if it's a lack of good character. ... Anyway... you can dump this guy anytime. He's earned it through his actions. I'm just trying to give you a feel for what options are available to you."

 

I assume that everyone is walking around with the same knowledge of him that I have . I'm really glad that you do offer that other side since I can't always see both sides and I do flop between wanting the marriage and not. I think the bottom line is I'd like to ensure that I haven't given up on the relationship or on him. If I was going through some sort of personal crisis (anxiety, depression, strange abnormal actions etc) I'd hope that people wouldn't write me off as a wanker and leave me to feel the dust settle around my feet. And I do think that he is (not a wanker but in a personal crisis). This IS abnormal behavior for him. I have been his base for the last 8 years (at least) and we really got a lot out of each other. But maybe bit by bit it's been eroding without me seeing it, and it's taken this absense for him to realize it's depth of erosion, and that's why he thinks it's hopeless. I do not know why he's so against trying MC (I know, the OW and hormones...) in the face of his family and that base that I'm saying... Actually, writing it out kinda makes me see it. Maybe it's not abnormal. Him leaving while I"m pregnant, however, is.

 

Anyway. My Doc says (like you guys!) focus on the baby and the rest can wait. I'm trying to 'secure my perimeter' and make sure that I'm all ready. Maybe if he comes home for the baby's birth it'll be enough to wake him up. Maybe he just needs this time. Maybe I can give it to him, maybe not. It's hard to sit on my laurels and wait, but I'm going to try.

 

I would like to call and ream him out SBN's style (if she's even done that, I liked the suggestions tho!) and then go 'cold and clinical'... but I don't know if that'd work with him. He doesn't respond well the threats and ultimatums (that I've seen)... Of course, he's not really responding to whatever it is that I'm doing now!

[mammax3]

 

So he called. He said he'd like to be here for the baby's birth (whew) and I said that he should come home before that, at least once, and he said he hadn't thought about that, 'there's lots going on at work...' and I said that there's lots going on here.

 

I told him that i've been thinking since he's left and I'm not cool with the way we left it. I don't want to let our relationship die like this and I meant it when i said our vows. If he's going through some personal sh*t like he's feeling overwhelmed or scared or whatever then that's what I'm here for, to work it through with him. I mentioned the OW and said that I'd like to work on it, but he needs to move back home and try too. I said that maybe we'd discover in MC that he's not the man for me, or that I'm not who he married, but we need to find out. We can't just say, oh! We had some good times, and the when the bad times came we just said forget it.

 

He asked if he could call me tomorrow. I said take the time you need. I'm not doing anything for the next month or so, and it's a decision that we need to make together. But if he decides that he just doesn't want to try, then I'll not be able to comply with the way he wants it to fall. I can't be his friend, at least not in the early years.

 

And I was calm, cool and collected. I waited often to hear him speak and let the silence hold sometimes. I prompted him when he began to trail, and didn't interrupt (except for the stupid comment about work being busy right now. sheesh!). No yelling. No swearing at him. No crying. Just telling him that I'd like to keep our marriage and that he needs to come home to do that.

[PWSX3]

 

So he called. He said he'd like to be here for the baby's birth (whew) and I said that he should come home before that, at least once, and he said he hadn't thought about that, 'there's lots going on at work...' and I said that there's lots going on here.

 

I told him that i've been thinking since he's left and I'm not cool with the way we left it. I don't want to let our relationship die like this and I meant it when i said our vows. If he's going through some personal sh*t like he's feeling overwhelmed or scared or whatever then that's what I'm here for, to work it through with him. I mentioned the OW and said that I'd like to work on it, but he needs to move back home and try too. I said that maybe we'd discover in MC that he's not the man for me, or that I'm not who he married, but we need to find out. We can't just say, oh! We had some good times, and the when the bad times came we just said forget it.

 

He asked if he could call me tomorrow. I said take the time you need. I'm not doing anything for the next month or so, and it's a decision that we need to make together. But if he decides that he just doesn't want to try, then I'll not be able to comply with the way he wants it to fall. I can't be his friend, at least not in the early years.

 

And I was calm, cool and collected. I waited often to hear him speak and let the silence hold sometimes. I prompted him when he began to trail, and didn't interrupt (except for the stupid comment about work being busy right now. sheesh!). No yelling. No swearing at him. No crying. Just telling him that I'd like to keep our marriage and that he needs to come home to do that.

 

And it sounds like you felt good about yourself and that is a good thing.

When you are the better person in a conversation it does make you feel in control & it makes you feel good.

[Gunny376]

Way to go ~ I think you handled it extremelly well.

[mammax3]

Well, i was happy with the way I had handled it.

 

ANd I guess I still am. But he wants to proceed with the divorce. Not that the lily livered clown has told me. He asked me for more time but has since emailed a lawyer, and told his friends that 'we're divorcing'. That's it. He also told his lawyer that he wants it to remain amicable but I've since 'changed my mind' (see above post). My skin is cold. I don't know what I want to do. A huge part of me wants never to see him again, but we have kids.

 

I'm so upset. I guess a bigger part of me was secretly hoping that he wouldn't want to go through with it. Really. It hurts all over again in a way that I didn't think it would. And now I'm getting angry. I guess I was in denial or bargaining this whole time and I didn't even know it. I thought I had hit acceptance early. I'm so glad I know, though, before he calls me (whenever he chooses to do that) so I can grab 'em and hitch 'em up. What a prick. Really. I can't swear enough to make me feel better...

 

That OW must be something else.

 

Well. I'll be crying now for a little while... But all the other things I've said still hold. There is an actual man out there for me and my boys, not (like SBN said) a little boy in her H's body.

 

I'm just glad that he can't surprise me with it on that phone call.

 

I just don't know what I want to do about the birth of this baby. The way I'm feeling right now... it doesn't lend itself to having him witness that miraculous event that he has NO desire to be a part of ... but he's still the Dad, and I don't want this baby not to feel loved.

What a prick. Really. I still can't swear enough.

 

Does anyone have anything to say?? Not like there's much to say. I just really can't believe that he'd do this. really. It makes me sick.

 

And when he does call, I know I'll be angry and mad on the phone. Maybe I just won't answer for a little while, unitl I'm in a better space. What good will it do to yell at him? To have the kids see me go off? I don't know. I need some advice and input. I'm really hurting here.

[mum2three]

I was glancing thru your posts and I just had write you. You are a mama with a "pair of balls" if not two! You have been so damn tough thru this ordeal that your fool of a husband is putting you thru. It's ok to cry your eyes out. You need to get it all out. I know your H's talk with his lawyer and his D announcement was another punch in the face. It probably felt just as bad if not worse than when he dropped the bomb on you. I think I was numb for a month or two. I was just filled with complete emptiness and sadness in my heart.

 

But LJ is right, he was probably involved with OW long before you knew it. I found out my H was like that too. He still wants control of the D. Your H is so selfish to do that to your unborn child. It made me so angry to read about his reaction to even helping you. You are better off cutting your losses early b/c he is not the example of a father for your children right now. You can't be responsible for his choices. Whether he chooses to man up and be a real dad to the children, it is up to him. You can do your best to protect them from the hurt and rejection but the truth will come out at some point. He needs to give them the answers.

 

You are very brave and I was touch by how you handled yourself when you told him that you would help him if he wanted to come home. But he is really acting like a cheater and WAS with no feelings about what he is doing. I hope you have family and friends to lean on. I know you really wanted him to reconsider but he already had one foot out the door. It's hard to believe all this b/c you only knew the "old H". Believe me, I am still putting together pieces of the puzzle 3 months after he filed for D. My counselor told me that affairs won't stay secret for long and usually shows its face by 4-6 months. She is so right on the money!!

 

Also, I don't think your H could be vested emotionally if he can't even decide to help you with the baby. Where is the decency and consideration for this beautiful baby?? If you decide that you are done then make sure you ream his ass out good.

 

Treat yourself and your baby well. I know it is hard to focus and you're probably emotionally drained. But your baby needs you to rest and eat. You have 2 other children? Maybe you can get some help from friends so you can get a break. Don't beat yourself up or wear yourself out trying to fix this while you've got the bun in the oven. It takes two. We all hear this at LS but it eventually does kick in. Get some counseling for yourself and just enjoy your pregnancy, birthing, and kids.

[mammax3]

Thanks for replying, Mum2three.

 

It does hurt as much as when he dropped the bomb the first time. I thought I was prepared. He truly does seem to want to keep it civil, is that WS thinking? To try and lessen the 'hurt'? As if. And he says he wants nothing in the house, nor any part of the house, but wants to keep his name on the deed. Can I take this at face value and start the yard sale? Well, I guess he's going to have to tell me first. Keep your eyes on ebay!

 

And Mum2three, you're right as to cutting my losses. It's better that I know now and can protect myself and the children as best I can, emotionally and financially. It's a blessing, really, that they're so young. Neither of them really remember living with H, so it's not that they'll particularly feel the loss.

 

And interesting, my baby's placenta (TMI??) keeps me from getting too down in order to protect my baby, the hormones somehow stay out of my body for a long time, or the 'feel good' hormones kick in quickly. I am slightly concerned for the post-partum depression that will surely hit, but I am surrounded by good family and friends, so I think I'll be okay.

 

I am really sad, though. It's hard to realize that it's all done. Again. I can't believe this is him. F***ing sh*thead.

 

Argh! Thanks for listening. I'm going to bed (hopefully). I'll probably be back in a few hours, not being able to sleep.

[mum2three]

I'm not gonna lie, this fork in the road is tough. I felt bipolar sometimes trying to get thru the day. I would feel positive in the morning and feel like a piece of sh*t on the sidewalk at nite. Now, I am seeing a future for me without my H. I was always the cautious one and want to be 99% confident before I make a decision. This is one that I can now live with and be ok. I know he made the choice for me by serving me papers but I know 100% that I can not and will not go back to what we had. Yeah, be careful with the PPD, baby blues since you may not take meds b/c of pregnancy and if u breastfeed. That is something that I had that H prob didn't understand about me after I had my dtr. I don't think I recognized it either.

 

Btw, F**kin Sh**t head is my H's name! I can't curse enough either. Haven't cursed this much in my life. But I do feel better afterwards.

 

Hey, I like your little saying at the end. I think mine is "Life is too short for your f**king bullsh*t!"

 

Be well Mamma...

[mammax3]

Mum2Three: "Btw, F**kin Sh**t head is my H's name! I can't curse enough either. Haven't cursed this much in my life. But I do feel better afterwards. :D"

 

Thanks! I guess he'll need a new moniker! Hmm... I'm sure some of you have suggestions! I haven't been in the military so I'm not *too* creative!

 

Yes, my H has made the decision for me (again, he hasn't told me) and I've been struggling tonight about how I want to handle it. Yelling at him really doesn't feel right, since he'll feel further justified about leaving... Y'know? But I want to tell him that I'm okay with this proceeding since I don't want the kids to learn his definition of "Man" from him - in that influential way, at least. The neighbors would do a better job. I'd also like to ask him will he tell his mother about OW or shall I? I'd also like to tell him that the onus is on him to keep in contact with the kids and foster that relationship. Are these all things you think that I should wait to tell him/ask him? I have to remember it's not like this will be the last time I talk to him so I can mete it out slowly. Prolong it a bit!

 

The sun rose bright this morning and my kids are awake and giggling and I'm going to fine. Great. He really doesn't know what he's leaving. I may feel like sh*t on the sidewalk tonight, but right now I'm okay. A little fragile but ok.

 

I'll be back later. Kids are hungry.

[Ladyjane14]

... maybe bit by bit it's been eroding without me seeing it, and it's taken this absense for him to realize it's depth of erosion, and that's why he thinks it's hopeless. I do not know why he's so against trying MC (I know, the OW and hormones...) in the face of his family and that base that I'm saying... Actually, writing it out kinda makes me see it. Maybe it's not abnormal.

 

This isn't something you should be worried about or spending any time with. Whether it's an erosion of the relationship or a just simple garden-variety extra-marital affair... it's just not possible to assess it correctly under these circumstances. When your spouse is "fogged out" by his infatuation feelings, he's seeing life though weird fantasy-goggles. Everything seems clear enough to him, but what he doesn't know is that his version of "sense" is actually "nonsense". So, he can't be reasoned with. This "NON-SENSE" is his reality, the one he's living in.

 

While you're dealing with him as a wayward, you can't get any rational thought out of him. It becomes impossible for you to know what's real and what's just loopiness from his hormonal attachment to an OW. Even YOU, who knows him so well... can't get a clear 'read' on him.

 

Remember this... you can't make sense out of NONSENSE. So, don't waste valuable energy on it. It's not worth the confusion or emotional pain. Dealing with 'the devil in front of you' is a tall enough order for ANYONE.

 

I just don't know what I want to do about the birth of this baby. The way I'm feeling right now... it doesn't lend itself to having him witness that miraculous event that he has NO desire to be a part of ... but he's still the Dad, and I don't want this baby not to feel loved.

 

There is NO legitimate REASON for your STBX to attend the birth which would outweigh YOUR comfort level. If you don't want him there... tell the hospital staff to keep him out. I'll be honest, I know it drives an OW nuts to have her MM go back home to his wife and attend a birth. So, even if it would suit me well to have her gnashing her teeth... I still wouldn't want some cheating a*hole around me at such a physically and emotionally draining time.

 

It's your call. You do what feels right and natural for you and your baby.

 

I wouldn't worry about him "bonding" with the baby anyway. What we're talking about at this point is a guy who doesn't WANT to be a real father. We're talking about a guy who just wants to be a "Disney Dad". You do your children no favors by reinforcing a bond that's THIS shallow. Better to provide REAL structure and REAL support in their lives.

 

Don't forget... one day, all of this will be behind you. You might want a NEW man in your life. Protect his place in your family NOW by putting your STBX at arm's length and keeping him there. IF he doesn't want a place in YOUR family... that's his choice. Make him live with it.

 

You know, every cheater would like a nice "amicable" divorce. They want to waltz on out without losing anything. But that's not any more realistic than any other part of their fantasy. They don't want to lose their place in the family, but they don't want to fulfill the responsibilities that come part and parcel WITH that place.

 

So... it's not about being mean and it's not about being vindictive that I say to you, if you're going to put him out... KEEP him out.

The last thing anybody wants is their ex-spouse in their business and up their ass all the time. He has NO PLACE in YOUR family past the point where he leaves it. He can go out and build his own.

 

My Doc says (like you guys!) focus on the baby and the rest can wait. I'm trying to 'secure my perimeter' and make sure that I'm all ready.

 

Your doctor is exactly right. On the list of priorities... HEALTHY BABY comes first. That's "JOB ONE".

 

I don't know if you're planning on breastfeeding or not, but if I were you... I would. I nursed mine and I loved it. But there's a little side benefit here to be had in that he's not going to be able to carry your baby off for private visitation while you're nursing. They'll try to pull the "supplement with formula" bullsh*t on you... but be militant about it. There are lots of GOOD reasons NOT to supplement, chief among them that milk is a supply and demand issue. I don't care how good your breast pump is, it's not the same as having a hungry baby on hand. Get more information from the LaLeche League HERE to support your position.

 

OWs tend to want to infiltrate all aspects of a MM's life. They want to meet your kids and show him what a great influence they'll be.

In reality, we're talking about a person who has no sense of appropriate boundaries. Keep her away for as long as you can.

 

This is where your attorney comes in. You can ask for ANYTHING you want. It doesn't mean you'll get it.. but you can ask. I'd ask for no exposure to the OW for at least one year and NO overnight girlfriends EVER. If he marries her, then of course, that's one thing. But you don't have to sign off on YOUR babies watching Daddy "shack up".

 

I'm sure the thought of your husband marrying another woman is hurtful to you right now.

But I want you to bear in mind that all she's getting is an ASSCLOWN, one who's capable of walking out on a woman right before she gives birth... walking out on a woman who's already given him two other children. All she's getting is an immature idiot, one who's unappreciative of a good woman's love and devotion.

 

Hell, I think every OW deserves a "cheating man". Why not?

 

Meanwhile, when you meet with your attorney, find out if it's advantageous to prove adultery on him. If so, it might be well-worth the cost of a PI.

 

Like I said earlier... you can ask for THE MOON. It doesn't mean you'll get it, but go ahead and ask. Your STBX will plead poverty, but really... what do you care if OW has to support him. If you get into his pockets bad enough, you'll get into hers too.

 

Personally, if it were me... I'd have my attorney bend him over and show him what A DAY is!!!

 

If you haven't already finished college, consider going back to school. Ask for spousal support until you can finish. If you're already an undergraduate... consider going for your masters. Whatever you get from him now has to last you until those kids are grown. This is the time to be stingy... 'cause you're doing it for THEM. You're the one who has to provide them with a 'standard of living'. Give no quarter. You don't want to spend the next twenty years waiting tables or ringing sales at the cash-wrap, feeding your kids Tuna Helper because you can't afford better.

 

One last thing... if you haven't exposed this affair to family and friends, go right ahead. There's a REASON he didn't come home and tell you that he's met someone else. He and the OW would very much like to perpetrate their fraud on everyone around them. They don't want to have to face any condemnation for their adultery. They don't want to have to pay for it either at the settlement table or in the loss of admiration from loved ones.

 

But you know what?... that's not YOUR problem. There's no reason for you to assist them in their fraud.... and EVERY reason you shouldn't. 'Facing the music' adds stress to the affair and interjects REALITY. You may not want him anymore... but that doesn't mean that a woman who's willing to cheat with a married man is good enough to be around your kids. Stressing the affair brings you one step closer to ending it. And who knows, maybe some day he'll straighten up and meet a NICE woman... someone you wouldn't mind your kids being exposed to.

 

HIS affair = HIS problem. You are at NO OBLIGATION to assist him with it.

 

THIS is "hardball" honey.

There's no such thing as a "friendly" divorce, not when you've got so much at stake. That's just a WS fantasy. Because believe me, you can give him all the cooperation he wants, but it'll never be enough. He'll just keep TAKING from you unless you step up to the plate and stop him.

 

A wayward spouse will NOT have pity or mercy. They will NOT relent. Their reality is different from yours, and as long as that "reality" persists... they believe that they have an absolute right to do what they're doing.

[mammax3]

I'll be honest, I know it drives an OW nuts to have her MM go back home to his wife and attend a birth. So, even if it would suit me well to have her gnashing her teeth...

 

Hahaha! I never thought of it like that. I still have time to decide, even though he did say he'd like to. Heck, I'd still like to be married, but we don't always get what we'd like.

 

I wouldn't worry about him "bonding" with the baby anyway. What we're talking about at this point is a guy who doesn't WANT to be a real father.

 

That's true too. I keep thinking down the road in terms of how the kids will feel with H. Not how another man will likely become who they know as Dad.

 

...all she's getting is an ASSCLOWN, one who's capable of walking out on a woman right before she gives birth... walking out on a woman who's already given him two other children. All she's getting is an immature idiot, one who's unappreciative of a good woman's love and devotion...

 

Thanks LJ. And she can have him! I need a nearly-AM.

 

I am planning on breastfeeding (I did with my other two) and I do think that it's the only thing that makes sense for our family. I wouldn't want to add to my stress after birth trying to figure out formula feeding when I already know how to breastfeed.

 

My attorney is terrific. They've said to go for it all, and he'll have to give it. I've recieved some advice about securing my perimeter regarding matters that I don't need his okay on, nor his knowledge, and I can do them fairly easily. They also said to focus on the baby and getting better afterwards, and as long as nothing changes, then I'm okay to wait this out a bit. I'm happy that this is a consistent message from all sources (you guys, my doc etc). I'm relieved to hear it from the law side of things too.

 

I'll keep y'all updated as to whether he calls today.