Some women don't know just how lucky they really are

[Very_Confused]

If he were having an affair at least that would be a reason, something I could put my finger on, for his ambivalence towards me and our relationship. But he isn't and I have no doubts at all about that. He just chalks it up to being almost 40 years old, married for 8 years and together for 10.

 

I recently bought the book Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay. I am still struggling daily, trying to find just one good reason to stay in this relationship. I thought I might find an answer there but unfortunately it just provided more reasons why I shouldn't.

[a4a]

VC he will not understand why you feel the way you do even if you ever got through to him. Because he cannot believe that you could possibly feel different about anything........ you must feel the way he does. The guy is living in his own world/story and the characters should do what he wants. It is all about him right?

 

delusional...... yeppers....... add on a trickle of total lack of empathy, a smidge of zero consideration......

 

you're not an idiot, it just took you this long to figure out that he is selfish and inconsiderate. Perhaps you are an optomist and really want to see the good parts.... keeps you hanging on.

 

stick a fork in the tater..... this spud is done.

[4whatItsWorth]

Maybe if people would learn to appreciate when they have something great the world would be a better place.

[Horse]

And some women appear to appreciate what they have, yet are unwilling to make any effort to reicprocate.

 

On the other hand. I have a hard time truly appreciating the good things that I have with my wife, when I am preoccupied with what is missing... Affection.

[tommyr]

This past weekend he got mad at me because I was cleaning house Saturday and he wanted to go shopping for a new grill.

 

As I was reading this, your arguing sounded very familiar. It's exactly the kind of pointless crap that I used to argue with my wife over! The thing is that really only happened back during our sexless marriage phase (from which we are still "recovering"). Just search here for posts by me and you can read about it- the bottom line is my sexual frustration was eroding all of the other good parts of my marriage. Even now, as our sex life improves, anytime I catch myself getting mad over the wife leaving junk in the back of my car (or whatever) I suddenly realize "gee it's been more than a week without sex...how did this happen again?" So there is a subconscious cause-effect relationship between my sudden anger and our last sexual encounter. It makes no sense but trust me it's true!

 

As a result, he has completely removed all other forms of intimacy and affection from our relationship.

 

Hmm, so I was right.

 

If you want my advice (preface by saying I am a very horny male) then I suggest you insist on fixing the sex in your marriage. If H won't cooperate on such an essential part of being married, then it's clear he does not value the marriage itself a whole lot. A man who has gotten laid recently would not be arguing over a couple hours delay purchasing a new grille.

[luvstarved]

First of all, VC, I would under no condition move to a house that was "all his". Why would you not co-own it?

 

Your grill story sounds like the same crap I put up with. It is ALWAYS something like that with him, this morning he was asking me about something and I was trying to remember so guess I had a quizzical look on my face. He's like "what are you looking at me like THAT for?" And yes, as long as I comply with his wishes AND don't ask him to do anything he doesn't want to do AND act like he is the most fabulous fascinating person on the planet, then sure he is pleasant enough.

 

Whenever I try to assert my needs, it is because I am emotionally troubled, aggressive, demanding, etc. and "most men would leave". When the dust settles, he loves me and we are living the American dream and he only said those things because he was frustrated. When he gets angry, no matter how extremely or for how small a slight, it was provoked and justified. If I even raise my voice over an important issue, then that is inexcuseable.

 

As far as sex, he isn't interested because jerking off is easier. Easier is his mantra - yells at kids because it is the easiest way to get them to comply, picking a fight and leaving is easier than helping with the housework, blaming me or anyone else handy is easier than taking personal responsibility.

 

I don't know your full situation, nobody can tell you what is really on his mind, but you can take from here what hits home. One thing I would suggest is checking out Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I think my H has a low-moderate case of that!

 

It seems to be a lot about control and having hissies when things don't go your way...but a4a is right in saying there isn't a lot of room for change. The hardest thing for me to get my head around is the fact that he really BELIEVES in the entitlement, others being wrong, etc. In his case, he was SUPREMELY spoiled by his parents and never made to keep his emotions in check. The plus side is he is all for counseling - I think because he wants to make me see how evil *I* am, but - whatever gets him in the door works for me.

 

I have not yet decided whether I will stay, hoping the counseling will help. But - at some point, you have to do what is best for you, and living with an emotional vampire is not a way to live out the one life you have...

 

Best wishes!

[Very_Confused]

And some women appear to appreciate what they have, yet are unwilling to make any effort to reicprocate.

 

On the other hand. I have a hard time truly appreciating the good things that I have with my wife, when I am preoccupied with what is missing... Affection.

 

That's a very good point Horse. I see myself doing the same thing but can't seem to stop it. I am so preoccupied with what is wrong that it's hard to enjoy and appreciate the good days. I can't turn my feelings on and off that easily, especially after so many years of it.

[Woggle]

I am not trying to insult any of the women in this thread but do you think that maybe your husbands feel that they can't do anything right and that is why they don't want to talk about the relationship? To many men when a woman wants to talk about things it feels like more of an interegation than a discussion. The truth is that men usually don't feel like being romantic with a woman that is constantly criticizing them and never seems to be happy no matter what they do. Not trying to lay all the blame on either of you but maybe you are playing a role as well in causing the problems.

[Very_Confused]

VC he will not understand why you feel the way you do even if you ever got through to him. Because he cannot believe that you could possibly feel different about anything........ you must feel the way he does. The guy is living in his own world/story and the characters should do what he wants. It is all about him right?

 

delusional...... yeppers....... add on a trickle of total lack of empathy, a smidge of zero consideration......

 

you're not an idiot, it just took you this long to figure out that he is selfish and inconsiderate. Perhaps you are an optomist and really want to see the good parts.... keeps you hanging on.

 

stick a fork in the tater..... this spud is done.

 

Everything you said is true about my husband a4a. That's one of the frustrating things about it. No matter what I say he just refuses to even consider my side of it. One of us has to be right, which means the other one is obviously wrong. I'll let you guess who is usually right.

 

Something we have disagreed about over the years is our view of things in general. In his opinion it's either black or white, no extenuating circumstances, no compromise, nothing in between. He says that there is no such thing as compromise because no matter how you look at it one person is going to get their way and the other one isn't. I don't think anything in life is quite that cut and dried. When we were separated last year and I wouldn't discuss reconciliation he said "either you love me or you don't". I told him it wasn't that simple.

[Very_Confused]

I am not trying to insult any of the women in this thread but do you think that maybe your husbands feel that they can't do anything right and that is why they don't want to talk about the relationship? To many men when a woman wants to talk about things it feels like more of an interegation than a discussion. The truth is that men usually don't feel like being romantic with a woman that is constantly criticizing them and never seems to be happy no matter what they do. Not trying to lay all the blame on either of you but maybe you are playing a role as well in causing the problems.

 

He probably does feel that way at times Woggle, but so do I. Refusing to talk about it isn't going to make it any better. That's just burying your head in the sand. I have no doubt that I think and talk about it too much. I have no doubt that I get on his nerves and come across as nagging or criticizing. I've been through the whole "maybe I ask too much, expect too much and maybe I'm too hard to love" thingie. I ain't buying it. If nothing else, LS has taught me that the feelings and concerns I have are valid and I am just one of so many going through the very same thing.

[Woggle]

He probably does feel that way at times Woggle, but so do I. Refusing to talk about it isn't going to make it any better. That's just burying your head in the sand. I have no doubt that I think and talk about it too much. I have no doubt that I get on his nerves and come across as nagging or criticizing. I've been through the whole "maybe I ask too much, expect too much and maybe I'm too hard to love" thingie. I ain't buying it. If nothing else, LS has taught me that the feelings and concerns I have are valid and I am just one of so many going through the very same thing.

 

There are many women that nag and this board is not the best place to meet sane people. The reason he acts the way does is that he is in defense mode all the time. He leaves work preparing for a fight when he gets home so already has his response ready. I know men dealing with the same thing and they are just at a loss as to what would make their wives happy. He doesn't have clue what will make you happy and stop the nagging so he doesn't even try any ore because he feels it is pointless. I am not trying to attack you but maybe help you see it from his side.

[a4a]

He probably does feel that way at times Woggle, but so do I. Refusing to talk about it isn't going to make it any better. That's just burying your head in the sand. I have no doubt that I think and talk about it too much. I have no doubt that I get on his nerves and come across as nagging or criticizing. I've been through the whole "maybe I ask too much, expect too much and maybe I'm too hard to love" thingie. I ain't buying it. If nothing else, LS has taught me that the feelings and concerns I have are valid and I am just one of so many going through the very same thing.

 

 

They are valid.

 

If you have honestly tried to express those in a non attacking way. Attempted to get to MC, attempted to nicely revive your sex life.....

and blah blah blah communicate in a way he understands....... blah blah blah.

 

You are then with a person who see's you without any valid feelings or concerns. I think that is the worst! So frustrating.

 

I know I am smack in the middle of that right now.

 

I spent months nicely communicating, blaming myself, then the pleading and being over the top nice to him ........hoping for a positive response or a sign.

 

Now in year two - I throw brie at him. Pointless, waste of time trying to get someone to believe that you actually mean something to them when they are only concerned about themselves.

 

Do you notice any patterns with him? Think about it..... does he react/non reaction, same results, triggers, patterns.

 

Best way to handle it is to only be concerned with yourself from this point on.

[a4a]

There are many women that nag and this board is not the best place to meet sane people. The reason he acts the way does is that he is in defense mode all the time. He leaves work preparing for a fight when he gets home so already has his response ready. I know men dealing with the same thing and they are just at a loss as to what would make their wives happy. He doesn't have clue what will make you happy and stop the nagging so he doesn't even try any ore because he feels it is pointless. I am not trying to attack you but maybe help you see it from his side.

 

Woggle it may appear to be true in many cases..... but I can tell you for a fact that in my case, my H's shrink cannot believe how I can tolerate him.

 

Nagging is not a wife thing, it is a man thing as well. Think about how you yourself nag consistantly about women and feminazi's.

 

I can say in my case my H is not at a loss about how to make me happy...... I have told him, the shrink has told him..... he simply chooses not to take that path,advice, or listen. Not my issue, not my responsibility........his issue, his responsibility.

 

So no, women don't always bring on defenses by nagging. Some people are just self centered, inconsiderate, and oblivious to the feelings and concerns of others.

 

And a person that denies their spouse sex or any option of any intimacy without considering their feelings deserves a foot in their ass. That is a fine example of selfishness; even you as a man should be able to understand that is very selfish.

[Very_Confused]

First of all, VC, I would under no condition move to a house that was "all his". Why would you not co-own it?

 

He says he doesn't need me to get a loan, he can do it on his own. I told him I thought the bank would insist that both of our names be on the loan but he says he checked into it and that is not the case. He has always resented that this house isn't in both of our names (I bought it before we were married) and he wants a house of his own. So if he can do it on his own he will. And I am suppose to be excited and eager to move there with him.

[a4a]

He says he doesn't need me to get a loan, he can do it on his own. I told him I thought the bank would insist that both of our names be on the loan but he says he checked into it and that is not the case. He has always resented that this house isn't in both of our names (I bought it before we were married) and he wants a house of his own. So if he can do it on his own he will. And I am suppose to be excited and eager to move there with him.

 

These issues are so deep.

 

Sounds like competition, control, and more psychobabble crap.

 

But who cares........ say this to yourself "whatever"

it works. Every time he starts to push you over the edge just think "whatever".

 

You need to work on your own happiness. With or without him.

repeat " it's all about me now, it's all about me now, it's all about me now"

 

set a shining example of happiness and positive energy for your kids.

 

When he starts flinging poo...... just think "whatever".

[Very_Confused]

Woggle it may appear to be true in many cases..... but I can tell you for a fact that in my case, my H's shrink cannot believe how I can tolerate him.

 

Nagging is not a wife thing, it is a man thing as well. Think about how you yourself nag consistantly about women and feminazi's.

 

I can say in my case my H is not at a loss about how to make me happy...... I have told him, the shrink has told him..... he simply chooses not to take that path,advice, or listen. Not my issue, not my responsibility........his issue, his responsibility.

 

So no, women don't always bring on defenses by nagging. Some people are just self centered, inconsiderate, and oblivious to the feelings and concerns of others.

 

And a person that denies their spouse sex or any option of any intimacy without considering their feelings deserves a foot in their ass. That is a fine example of selfishness; even you as a man should be able to understand that is very selfish.

 

I could consider it nagging that no matter what we are talking about he always changes the conversation to how I don't want to move to the country, how I don't want to help him start his own business, how he is so stressed out at work, how I will no longer spend my life playing video games with him, etc. So I guess we are both a couple of nags.

 

I don't know, maybe his being an only child has something to do with it. In my case it's my husband's own Mother who doesn't understand how I put up with it. In fact, she says I should tell him to go live by himself and maybe then he'll be happy. I don't even have to tell her what is going on between us, she knows her son and he frustrates her too.

[Woggle]

It sounds like you are ingnoring his feelings and concerns as much as he is ignoring yours.

[Very_Confused]

These issues are so deep.

 

Sounds like competition, control, and more psychobabble crap.

 

But who cares........ say this to yourself "whatever"

it works. Every time he starts to push you over the edge just think "whatever".

 

You need to work on your own happiness. With or without him.

repeat " it's all about me now, it's all about me now, it's all about me now"

 

set a shining example of happiness and positive energy for your kids.

 

When he starts flinging poo...... just think "whatever".

 

I think you may have something there a4a. It does often seem like a competition or a fight for control. What impressed him about me when we first met has come to bite him in the backside, my independence. He wants to control everything and I have not been cooperating. I have ideas, desires and opinions of my own and unless I get a lobotomy I don't see how I can change my entire personality to give him what he wants.

[a4a]

It sounds like you are ingnoring his feelings and concerns as much as he is ignoring yours.

 

 

 

Wog you might have a slight point here but likely you are being biased again?

 

 

VC: I think you have reached the point or no return with him.

 

Either take him the way he is or go make yourself a happy life.

 

No matter what you do, do you think he will change? Deal with the ED? Hold any of your points or your concerns as valued or valid?

[Woggle]

Wog you might have a slight point here but likely you are being biased again?

 

 

VC: I think you have reached the point or no return with him.

 

Either take him the way he is or go make yourself a happy life.

 

No matter what you do, do you think he will change? Deal with the ED? Hold any of your points or your concerns as valued or valid?

 

I admit that I do tend to give men the benefit of the doubt more unless proven otherwise but I do that because I know how some women can be. A man can do everything and she still resents him and is angry at him. After a while a man just stops trying. She probably knew what he was like before they were married and now she wants to change him. I don't know why women get mad when men are who they always have been. This is why I told my wife before we married that I am who I am and she shouldn't expect to mold me into a different man.

[Very_Confused]

It sounds like you are ingnoring his feelings and concerns as much as he is ignoring yours.

 

He doesn't express his feelings, in fact he refuses to do so. I have asked nicely and not so nicely, I have pleaded, I have asked in person as well as in writing, I have suggested books and marriage counseling, in an attempt to learn what he feels, all to no avail. The only way I could ignore them is if I were made aware of them.

[Woggle]

He doesn't express his feelings, in fact he refuses to do so. I have asked nicely and not so nicely, I have pleaded, I have asked in person as well as in writing, I have suggested books and marriage counseling, in an attempt to learn what he feels, all to no avail. The only way I could ignore them is if I were made aware of them.

 

Because if he did express his feelings you would probably jump down his throat and rip him to shreds.

[JackJack]

He doesn't express his feelings, in fact he refuses to do so. I have asked nicely and not so nicely, I have pleaded, I have asked in person as well as in writing, I have suggested books and marriage counseling, in an attempt to learn what he feels, all to no avail. The only way I could ignore them is if I were made aware of them.

 

 

It sounds as if you have tried most everything you feel you can. HE is the one who now has the ball in his court. His choice is to either meet you half way and give these things a try, or not. It seems he is not. If it were me in this situation, and my spouse REFUSED to do or at least try anything in hopes of salvaging the marriage, I would take that as I was not important enough for them to even put forth the effort and that they are just willing to let the marriage fall by the way side. It is time to take care of and worry about yourself now.

[JackJack]

Because if he did express his feelings you would probably jump down his throat and rip him to shreds.

 

 

Lets say she did not and has not for awhile, jumped down his throat about anything, but tried to talk or communicate with him in a nice calm civil manner, but yet he was still afraid she might "jump down his throat" therefore he just refuses to work on anything or hear her out. Then what is it she should do?

 

Even if she has jumped down his throat before, he CAn NOT continue to hang onto that, and use that as a crutch to not try to do or hear anything that is going on. If he turns a def ear, or blind eye, it is because he chooses to keep doing so. Therefore HE will continue to punish her (so to speak) and the marriage. I guess its kind of like, damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

[a4a]

He doesn't express his feelings, in fact he refuses to do so. I have asked nicely and not so nicely, I have pleaded, I have asked in person as well as in writing, I have suggested books and marriage counseling, in an attempt to learn what he feels, all to no avail. The only way I could ignore them is if I were made aware of them.

 

well that dog don't hunt!

 

oh VC I hear ya, I understand, and I am as sorry for you as I am for myself at this point.

 

like I said focus on yourself from this point on and if you need support come here.

 

Woggle I think your bias is clearly shining through at this moment. Take a step back and think about it. I mean say what you mean, her being a woman of course she will jump down his throat and rip him to shreds.......

 

You don't live there, you don't know, and unless you live with a person who totally invalidates you, your concerns, and feelings are just meaningless, it is hard to realize how difficult it is indeed to tolerate it.

 

try being supportive regardless of her having a vagina huh?