?? for the dumpers

[frd150]

I read through everything.

 

You said you are seeing each other now - right?

 

We have had a couple of "dates" and a few lunches.

 

How long have you been in such constant contact?

 

Pretty much from the begining of all this. she had told a friend that she felt that she put most of the effort into our relationship and that she wanted me to put forth the effort this time.

 

And what does she say about getting back together? Does she bring it up to you?

Up until yesterday i felt our chances were pretty good and maybe i am over reacting. Maybe they still are. Yesterday she called in the evening after i had called her in the morning to invite her to lunch. The conversation consisted of her telling me that she would be moving in with a client (a girl) at the beach and that she would be needing a couple of things she had left behind. This was random since she had been talking to a girlfriend of mine (platonic) about moving in with her. Maybe that did not work out for the best.

 

The conversation then turned to her asking me why i seemed so bummed. I said "what do you expect out of me". " You left me and i have done nothing but try and show you how sorry i am for the hurt i have caused". She said "should i just not call you anymore"? i should have said yes.

I guess the whole her moving to the beach ( a fun place) really got to me.

 

She had told me once during all of this that she had never been broken up with and last night i had Asked her "how can you know how i feel you have always been the dumper" She said wrong. She was cheated on (technically qualifys as being dumped ) and she was also dumped while in a LDR. I did not know this. And she still talks to this person. Go figure. Miss, i never look back. Well, in the middle of me sharing with her my feelings she felt the need to cut it short. I told her to call me back. She told me "it might be late" i "said i did not care".

 

After the above conversation i had a long talk with my sister. My sister had alot to say believe me. She felt that what i was going thru was cruel and for all of my efforts i did not deserve it. She had alot more to say but i will not bore you with it.

 

Well she called back just as i requested. I am sorry to say i did not have the energy to bring up the earlier conversation with her. I mean i had spelled it all out for her so many different ways and i was not mentally prepared to have the conversation at that time. I said a pleasant good night to her. I think she expected different and was a bit taken back given her tone. Wheew this sucks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I admire your dedication to winning her back and there has been positive actions from her. But you have been doing tremendously well

.

 

Yes, there have been positive actions from her, but for what? Why would she throw this away. Someone who wanted to marry me so badly. I have a ring that may now be tanted. I am trying so very hard. I am serious when i ask this but could it be the hormone problem i asked about earlier? She told me yesterday that she is on a regimine of medication along with a daily injection and this could go on indefinitly depending on what happens on a montly doctors visit. Could this be effecting the way she she is handeling this? It is worse than i thought.

 

I

echo another poster who said you'd be a prize for any girl so if this one isn't smart enough to snatch you back up, there is going to be one lucky girl out there...

Yeah, i think it was Daphnie. For all that i have learned she would be coming back to a wiser person. Dedicated to her and the relationship. I was raised pretty much raised by my mother so i have learned to take women seriously and to respect them to the fullest.Yeah unfortunatlly for the girl in question she may loose all of this to another girl who will appreciate all the effort i am going thru. I am growing closer to accepting this but i am not all the way there yet.

 

Please give me some answers to the questions I asked. I am pondering the problem at hand. It is a tough one.

 

I may have more to add since it is now 5:40 am here and i woke up from a dead sleep to type. Sorry for any errors in the above. Thanks for helping with this one. I have read your replys to others and you seem to be pretty wise.

[Island Girl]

Well she called back just as i requested. I am sorry to say i did not have the energy to bring up the earlier conversation with her. I mean i had spelled it all out for her so many different ways and i was not mentally prepared to have the conversation at that time. I said a pleasant good night to her. I think she expected different and was a bit taken back given her tone. Wheew this sucks.

 

I'm glad you did this.

 

I have a lot more to say about your post but I felt you needed this boost.

 

And I am very serious when I say this was a good move. You need to be a strong man for yourself and show her you are to be respected. You have humbled yourself and done some good work in showing her that you are sorry. But there has to be a line and I think this will serve as a little reminder of that for her.

[frd150]

Thanks for the boost Island Girl. I thought that i had just whimped out.

 

I am real curious to see what you have to say.

[dr strangelove]

Look man

 

I know you wont listen to me but.

 

I read your posts a few times.. just to kill some time.

 

I was thinking how did I get back my exes before?

 

a) I did a bit of effort.. romantic stuff.

 

b) I did not have any or very little contact with them and I left it to them to make contact with me.

 

I dont really see you dong either of these..

 

Yep I know life sucks but cheer up chum.. at least she talks to you and you know where she is.. some of us dont have that luxury.. things are much worse

but still fixable

 

You should also find things to do.. logging on here sometimes makes things worse because then you are more focused on the situation

 

Also sometimes the advice is misleading.. thats one reason I dont post about my love life on here anymore.

[Faith2]

Also sometimes the advice is misleading.. thats one reason I dont post about my love life on here anymore.

 

(Aside to Dr. S ~ I'm glad you post advice for others, though. You have a refreshingly different take on things. Not the usual rhetoric.)

[bogatose_montana]

hi this is bogatose montana and i am wondering how can i search for my posts so i can cheak what is the answer and i also want to say that my girlfriend is a butiful girl and i love her we just argued yesterday and i dont want her to get hurt i mean it i love her i am afraid that we will break up and if we do i am going to so sad and there is this guy that trys to break us up and i seriously dont want to break up with her what should i do:(

[frd150]

Hey Doc,

 

Don't worry i will not quote your thread.

 

As far as effort, She is not a flowers and candy kind of girl. She appreciates these things but the are not of the utmost importance to her. I have done other things like bringing her lunch etc. A random card might be nice but what do you write that does not sound to mushy. I would just like to get your take on it.

 

Since our contact is limited it is somewhat hard to do what you suggest. She wanted to see change and that is how i am shoing her that i am serious. I am doing this not only for our relationship but for me personally.

 

 

Yeah life sucks but at the same time i am learning to live as though she may never come back. I have been obsessing over all of the memories we had together but now i am learning how to put them in the back of my mind. Either way time to make new good memories with or without her.

 

 

Since you have read my posts you you will see that i mentioned that all those that are close to us are baffeled over this. They say i have done everything right. But you know the old saying you can lead a horse to water blah blah blah.

 

I am getting out more. Had a date two nights ago. Very casual but nice just the same. The gym has been most helpful.

 

 

On going saga...

[dr strangelove]

Dont have anything to do with her..

 

find something (or someone) else to do. Women have a way of showing up when your building a castle in the sand or great work of art or nuclear fusion device...

 

I cant teach the other thing (ie being sauve) sorry..

[frd150]

No contact in two days and i am not as bothered as i would have been two weeks ago .

 

Do not get me wrong i still love and miss her but i have been pretty busy.

 

I will start splitting atoms tomorow . Lets see what happens.

[Trialbyfire]

Well done frd150. You're slowly weaning yourself off of her and getting your balance back.

[Star Gazer]

Well done frd150. You're slowly weaning yourself off of her and getting your balance back.

 

Step by step. Just one day at a time, frd150.

[frd150]

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

I can only wonder what she is thinking. For the record i am not doing this to be mean or vindictive i am just trying not to be the doormat that i had become. A relationship is about mutual respect and i have done my very best to respect her through all of this.

 

Not to sound cocky because i am a humble person but she is really missing out on the new me.

[frd150]

Well, i digressed a little this morning.

 

N/C was broken due to an up coming event. We had a long talk about some issues in our relationship having to do with our scheduals. She also spent time bringing up her shortcomings to which i told her i was with her despit all of this. She seems somewhat insecure about a couple of things.

 

It seems that now that we are apart she has a more open schedual to do things like party:mad: . She was never like this. She even said in a conversation when we first started dating that she was not into that sort of thing. Why now all of a sudden??? WTF??? i was never never opposed to going somewhere to have a good time, vacation etc. I mean when we were together we were both busy and it went both ways. Why all of a sudden is she so open with her so called busy schedual. When i asked her she put it on me like i was the only one who was busy trying to build a foundation for our future.. Not true or maybe she just assumed i could never move my schedual around to go away. Again Lack of communication. I even went as far as changing the hours and days that the buisness i run is open. I pissed off alot of people but she was/is still more important to me than them. She knew i was working on this but in all honesty i do not think that she believed it was going to happen before the breakup. We now have the same days off and i started this so that we could spend more time together. Now what?

 

 

I have made all of the friggen changes she asked for and then some for myself. I have given her space. No stalking E.T.C. Hell, i even had a ring that she found out about. I feel that this might stem from me not asking her to marry me during Christmas or a vacation that we were on. The way i feel is this... who knows? The wedding is a special day for her and everything should be as she wants it and me, i am to be there to support her thru all of the planning. The ONE THING that belonged to me in all of this was the way i was going to ask her. Thats it. I already had it planned including the day. Looking at my calender it was going to be in three weeks.

 

 

Well, On that weekend she will be with some "unknowns" at a typical memorial day party spot doing Lord knows what. I know she owes me nothing right now and the same goes for me but i have all of these negative thoughts running thru my head about her running around drunk messing with other guys who could give a crap about her. Maybe her insecurities are causing her to need validation from others outside her core group. I dunno:confused:

 

 

She should not even be drinking with what the doctor has told her. (See above post on the subject). She should be on a strict diet as well which she is not sticking to daily.

 

We are in our mid twenties and as i said before i like to have a good time myself but we always seemed to compliment each other. I thought i finally found someone that felt as i did. Maybe she is in a phase, maybe it has to do with her med. condition or maybe i was wrong all along about her. History seems to validate the first two.

 

What started today is that i saw one of her relatives last night. I recieved a big hug and a decent conversation with her. She said " we are all pulling and praying for you guys". I told her that i am there if she needs me but i am trying to give her all of the freedom and space she needs to get her head right. She replied " I do not understand all of this". "your so great for her.

 

 

Sorry, i took such a step back in my strength.

 

 

Hey island girl, you still around??

 

You guys have all been great. I would like some feedback on this if anyone has time.

[CaliGuy]

I have made all of the friggen changes she asked for and then some for myself.

 

All personal changes should be 100% based on YOURSELF and not something that someone else asks for or they will not take and you will not be happy.

 

At some point in your life you have to learn to love and accept who you are. Yes, you should always strive to be a better person but not FOR someone else but for YOU.

 

Accept that some relationships are just not meant to be. The longer you spend chasing someone who doesn't want to be with you, the longer you delay meeting the one who does.

 

Cheers.

[Island Girl]

Hey island girl, you still around??

 

Yes I'm here. I've been watching what has been happening - I don't think you'll like what I have to say. But here goes...

 

 

N/C was broken due to an up coming event.

 

This seems - sorry - but an excuse to break NC either on her side or yours...What event? How did the break from NC happen?

 

 

We had a long talk about some issues in our relationship having to do with our scheduals. She also spent time bringing up her shortcomings to which i told her i was with her despit all of this. She seems somewhat insecure about a couple of things.

 

It is a mistake to get into any detailed relationship talk unless you are both in it and committed to working through issues - even then - it needs to not be a "bleeding heart" emotional talk but a matter of fact to the point conversation about what is happening NOW not a re-hashing of what happened, what's new, what changed, etc. That can go on and on and on with NO resolution.

 

We all know actions speak louder than words and ANYTHING we are afraid of (i.e. past behaviors or reactions) will NOT go away with words. Trust is rebuilt by demonstration only. Gabbing about it and saying the same things over and over will not do anything but beat the emotions out of the relationship -- on both sides.

 

 

It seems that now that we are apart she has a more open schedual to do things like party:mad: . She was never like this. She even said in a conversation when we first started dating that she was not into that sort of thing. Why now all of a sudden??? WTF???

 

This is a very real and valid point. Why now?!!

 

I do not like the sounds of this at all. My feeling is she is watching you make changes and now feels - how do I put this so it comes across?!!

 

She is seeing you as - ugh - spineless? Like you are going to be there whenever she wants you to be no matter what because you are the one that is "wrong". She feels justified in whatever she does because you are put in the position that YOU must prove how committed YOU are while she has NO commitment what so ever - and if someone comes across like that it reads "doormat".

 

I know this probably comes across badly. But there is really no "nice" way of explaining it.

 

 

i was never never opposed to going somewhere to have a good time, vacation etc. I mean when we were together we were both busy and it went both ways. Why all of a sudden is she so open with her so called busy schedual.

 

Yes, why? If she was SOOOO committed to you before, why didn't you see this demonstrated THEN?

 

I think she used excuses to break it off and make you chase her. I am not saying there weren't problems, but I don't think they were as severe to her as she would have you think. And certainly she had duplicitous feelings going on about her life and what she wanted.

 

What she is showing you now is what she was thinking about anyway.

 

However, depending on how manipulative she is (sorry), if you brought it up to her she'd make it somehow YOUR fault.

 

 

When i asked her she put it on me like i was the only one who was busy trying to build a foundation for our future..

 

Ah ha....read above paragraph again...

 

 

Not true or maybe she just assumed i could never move my schedual around to go away. Again Lack of communication. I even went as far as changing the hours and days that the buisness i run is open. I pissed off alot of people but she was/is still more important to me than them. She knew i was working on this but in all honesty i do not think that she believed it was going to happen before the breakup. We now have the same days off and i started this so that we could spend more time together. Now what?

 

She did know you were working on it - she knew you'd probably do it. Now it has happened and she is not committed to the relationship.

 

If you could "never do it", you wouldn't have been working on it. And you acknowledge that even she knew you were working on it.

 

Spending more time together would entail you being back together. You aren't. In fact, she has you in a position of stringing you along and dancing to her tune. Not good at all.

 

You aren't involved together anymore. You're in it (as much as you can be while broken up) and she is not at all.

 

 

I have made all of the friggen changes she asked for and then some for myself.

 

Great. Those are changes you should embrace for yourself - that you have worked your life out in a way that would compliment being in a relationship.

 

The question is -- what relationship is that going to be? Is it her? Or someone new?

 

 

I have given her space. No stalking E.T.C.

 

Good lesson for ANY break up - NO STALKING.

 

Hell, i even had a ring that she found out about.

 

So she knows how serious you were/are about this. And yet she is playing games, showing very manipulative behavior, and keeping herself at a distance from any kind of real reconciliation.

 

Remember actions speak louder than words...what do YOU think of her actions? --- Take out any conversations or anything she SAYS. How is she ACTING toward you and her life - and any relevance between the two of those...?

 

 

I feel that this might stem from me not asking her to marry me during Christmas or a vacation that we were on.

 

Nope. If she was irritated or angry because you didn't ask her to marry you but NOW knows there is a ring, she'd be right there next to you --- waiting.

 

IF this was what happened - I'd say DO NOT PROPOSE to this manipulative controlling immature girl. In fact, turn and run for the hills. You do not want to marry a woman who is not honest about what her wants are or about any problems she is having or someone who is not 100% committed to resolution.

All of these issues and the way she broke up with you belie a bigger problem. She is great at paying lip service to wanting more of a commitment from YOU but she is not fully invested. I fear she hasn't been and perhaps is not capable of it right now.

 

 

The way i feel is this... who knows? The wedding is a special day for her and everything should be as she wants it and me, i am to be there to support her thru all of the planning. The ONE THING that belonged to me in all of this was the way i was going to ask her. Thats it. I already had it planned including the day. Looking at my calender it was going to be in three weeks.

 

I don't really believe she understands it is not about the ring, planning the ceremony, or any of that. It is about what comes after that is important. An understanding that the two of you would be committed to working out problems together. Open and honest communication throughout. It is about the hard work - on both sides. And sticking it out.

 

With the effort you have put in - if she understood and wanted that with you - she'd be putting in some effort of her own. She isn't.

 

 

Well, On that weekend she will be with some "unknowns" at a typical memorial day party spot doing Lord knows what. I know she owes me nothing right now and the same goes for me but i have all of these negative thoughts running thru my head about her running around drunk messing with other guys who could give a crap about her. Maybe her insecurities are causing her to need validation from others outside her core group. I dunno:confused:

 

If you are right and she is searching for validation from others, it is better to know that now. She is not ready for a serious commitment and she is DEFINITELY not ready for marriage.

 

You are right. She owes you nothing right now.

 

But you are also VERY right about owing her nothing either. We'll come back to this thought at the end.

 

 

She should not even be drinking with what the doctor has told her. (See above post on the subject). She should be on a strict diet as well which she is not sticking to daily.

 

Her health is her responsibility. Even being in a committed relationship that would be the case. She has to be an adult. Again she is exhibiting very immature behavior - she is reckless and treating her health as if she is invincible.

 

 

We are in our mid twenties and as i said before i like to have a good time myself but we always seemed to compliment each other. I thought i finally found someone that felt as i did. Maybe she is in a phase, maybe it has to do with her med. condition or maybe i was wrong all along about her. History seems to validate the first two.

 

It sounds like it is a phase. And it sounds like she has this in her - this immature vein that will continue to surface. Until she grows up mentally it will come out at various times.

 

Another symptom of this is the sudden partying behavior and shuffling of priorities (moving her schedule around to accommodate the need to be out and about).

 

 

What started today is that i saw one of her relatives last night. I recieved a big hug and a decent conversation with her. She said " we are all pulling and praying for you guys". I told her that i am there if she needs me but i am trying to give her all of the freedom and space she needs to get her head right. She replied " I do not understand all of this". "your so great for her.

 

I would caution you about talking to her family or friends about anything to do with the relationship or lack thereof. NOTHING good ever comes of it. Anything said is shaded to preserve feelings or emphasized to accentuate their own agenda.

 

If what you say is repeated to her, it is often miscommunicated or twisted to again accentuate their own agenda.

 

Too many cooks spoil the broth. Keep everyone and anyone who know the two of you out of it.

 

You may have someone to confide in whom you can trust not to repeat anything to her EVER. No matter if you get back together or not -- EVER.

Talk to that person but not anyone else. And certainly not members of "her camp".

 

If it comes up - you just politely and immediately change the subject with no disclosure.

 

----

 

You do not owe her anything. At this point your attitude should be, "I've done what was asked and you are either with me or not. No back and forth no games and no 'I need to see more'. Either you are or you aren't".

 

That should be your ATTITUDE. And then, observing her ACTIONS, you should be thinking "obviously you AREN'T."

 

And be in NC -- no matter what comes up -- she is not your responsibility, you owe her NOTHING (not in action, word, etc.) no matter what is happening in her life. You are not a part of her life right now so you have nothing at all to do with it. She needs to figure her crap out on her own.

[frd150]

Yes I'm here. I've been watching what has been happening - I don't think you'll like what I have to say. But here goes...

 

Thanks and do not worry i would rather get straight answers even if they are not so pleasant.

 

 

 

This seems - sorry - but an excuse to break NC either on her side or yours...What event? How did the break from NC happen?

 

We have a very good mutual friend that we and others were planning a big graduation party for. This has been ongoing for a while. He is getting his masters and it was one of those rent out a room in a nice resturant affairs. She had questions since i set up the facilities. Her reason was valid. She did however question why i did not try to get ahold of her since last week. I replied " Since you did not answer my texts or return my message i figured you were trying to tell me something. I took it as my que that you did not want to talk and besides i was busy. i was out of town at W's house ( a friend of mine)."

 

It is a mistake to get into any detailed relationship talk unless you are both in it and committed to working through issues - even then - it needs to not be a "bleeding heart" emotional talk but a matter of fact to the point conversation about what is happening NOW not a re-hashing of what happened, what's new, what changed, etc. That can go on and on and on with NO resolution.

 

It is hard when you initiate conversations like this and the other person makes it one sided. It was all my fault or at least she makes me feel like it is. I have made attempts at this acouple of times but she alwasy responds with "ok but you you you" As if i did everything wrong. How do i get her to own up. Without her acknowledging the issues we cant resolve things that she has told others she wants to resolve.

 

 

We all know actions speak louder than words and ANYTHING we are afraid of (i.e. past behaviors or reactions) will NOT go away with words. Trust is rebuilt by demonstration only. Gabbing about it and saying the same things over and over will not do anything but beat the emotions out of the relationship -- on both sides.

My actions have been all positive. She was right about the things that i needed to change because since i have made the changes things have otherwise been better for me. now what about her? All i have seen from her is what i have described in my earlier post. Oh waite a minute , she paid off a credit card. Nothing else has changed other than she has become closer to a wilder crowd. Wow what self improvement. All you get from that is a beer gut and and an std.

 

 

 

 

This is a very real and valid point. Why now?!!

 

I do not like the sounds of this at all. My feeling is she is watching you make changes and now feels - how do I put this so it comes across?!!

 

She is seeing you as - ugh - spineless? Like you are going to be there whenever she wants you to be no matter what because you are the one that is "wrong". She feels justified in whatever she does because you are put in the position that YOU must prove how committed YOU are while she has NO commitment what so ever - and if someone comes across like that it reads "doormat".

 

I know this probably comes across badly. But there is really no "nice" way of explaining it.

 

Funny thing about this is that when she found out about the ring she said to someone that "Ok well I feel that I made all of the effort in the relationship and now I want to see effort from him". WHAHHHH??? What else does she need? She lived in my house for two years. I never asked her for anything in return but i always appreciated what she did. My payment was having her with me. That is all i needed. I do not think she had enough faith in me that i would respond to the break up with the changes she wanted. I think that she maybe thought that i would curl up into a little ball and continue with my life just the way it was. She got thrown a curve ball that she does not know how to hit (sorry i play baseball) and i think it confused the hell out of her. For her now it is probably easier to do what she is doing.

 

 

 

Yes, why? If she was SOOOO committed to you before, why didn't you see this demonstrated THEN?

 

I think she used excuses to break it off and make you chase her. I am not saying there weren't problems, but I don't think they were as severe to her as she would have you think. And certainly she had duplicitous feelings going on about her life and what she wanted.

 

What she is showing you now is what she was thinking about anyway.

 

However, depending on how manipulative she is (sorry), if you brought it up to her she'd make it somehow YOUR fault.

 

 

 

 

Ah ha....read above paragraph again...

I have probably answered this in the above but i agree. But how does she expect me to chase her in the dark. I have recieved so many mixed messages that i could write a book on the subject. And yes our problems were not that severe. I have friends that have gone thru much worse, cheating etc that are now happily married. Maybe she wants to see how far i will go. Maybe when she tells me about her adventures she's expecting me to react differently. Maybe she expected me to be at her doorstep with flowers everyday like in the movies. Well i really did not do any of that. And i am sure the ho's she is hanging out with now tell her that i really do not care since i am not doing theese things. Hell i have (soon had since i cannot keep it for long without getting my money back) an engagement ring. I think that speaks louder that 50 dozen roses. I wonder if she has mentioned the ring to the Ho's? Sorry about the term but from what i know thats what they are.

 

 

She did know you were working on it - she knew you'd probably do it. Now it has happened and she is not committed to the relationship

.

If i was to stay in my job and be committed to being with her then i had to do it.

 

If you could "never do it", you wouldn't have been working on it. And you acknowledge that even she knew you were working on it.

The owner of the buisness i run is very stubborn. I seem to surround myself with stubborn people.

It took me a long time to convince him th make the change. But it was not only going to be good for me and her it was going to be good for the buisness. I am always a day late and a dollar short.

 

Spending more time together would entail you being back together. You aren't. In fact, she has you in a position of stringing you along and dancing to her tune. Not good at all.

 

Yeah i know. But she has my heart. In the last month or so my brain has begun to take over a bit more. That is where the N/C came form. My heart had a very hard time with it. Can someone become a manipulator without never showing that side before?

 

You aren't involved together anymore. You're in it (as much as you can be while broken up) and she is not at all.

 

I have always been commited to her from day one and i have never given up on her. This is what i was tought all my life. Let her try and find that in her new crowd. As a friend told me she is setting herslef up for another failure. She has always dated guys that have walked all over her or have had issues. her last long term even cheated on her.

 

 

 

Great. Those are changes you should embrace for yourself - that you have worked your life out in a way that would compliment being in a relationship.

 

The question is -- what relationship is that going to be? Is it her? Or someone new?

I keep telling myself that she may never get to fully experience the changes i have made. The break up was the catylst but the effort is all mine. What ever heartache she is going thru may be in vein. Why will she not take advantage of what she asked for? SHEESH.

 

If it is not to be her then who ever i am with next is going to be one lucky girl because of all this.

 

 

Good lesson for ANY break up - NO STALKING.

 

Yeah, police can complicate things even more:laugh: . Don't worry i have no first hand experience in this.

 

 

 

So she knows how serious you were/are about this. And yet she is playing games, showing very manipulative behavior, and keeping herself at a distance from any kind of real reconciliation.

 

I do not think that she thought i would have responded to the break up in the manner that i have. Everyone knows that she left and i think that pride might be a factor in her not coming back. She, i think had everyone convinced that i was the way i was and by my actions i have proven her wrong. Could be trying to stretch this out as long as she can to save face?

Remember actions speak louder than words...what do YOU think of her actions? --- Take out any conversations or anything she SAYS. How is she ACTING toward you and her life - and any relevance between the two of those...?

 

About her actions? Well, she could be showing her tru colors. How can someone hide them for three years? I never thought she was capable of doing this. I think that her actions are the result of bad influence from bad people , confusion, a little immaturity, and a bit of the before mentioned med condition. She claims she still loves me but she is not doing a good job of showing it.

 

 

 

Nope. If she was irritated or angry because you didn't ask her to marry you but NOW knows there is a ring, she'd be right there next to you --- waiting.

 

You would think, Huh?

IF this was what happened - I'd say DO NOT PROPOSE to this manipulative controlling immature girl. In fact, turn and run for the hills. You do not want to marry a woman who is not honest about what her wants are or about any problems she is having or someone who is not 100% committed to resolution.

 

If you would have said this to me a month ago i would not have listened but now i my own version of what you stted plays in my head over and over again. Mine ends with she is the one making the mistake.

 

 

All of these issues and the way she broke up with you belie a bigger problem. She is great at paying lip service to wanting more of a commitment from YOU but she is not fully invested. I fear she hasn't been and perhaps is not capable of it right now.

I guess the old saying applys"careful what you wish for". she got it and does not know what to do with it. Like i said she probably did not think i would have stepped up.

 

 

I don't really believe she understands it is not about the ring, planning the ceremony, or any of that. It is about what comes after that is important. An understanding that the two of you would be committed to working out problems together. Open and honest communication throughout. It is about the hard work - on both sides. And sticking it out.

 

Amen to that. I am a firm beliver in confronting problems head on when they are brought to my attention.You just do not bail when the going gets tough. I think if you do it is a sign of immaturity and or confusion. This is soething i never saw in her before.

 

With the effort you have put in - if she understood and wanted that with you - she'd be putting in some effort of her own. She isn't.

She is still convinced that she is the one who put in all the effort while we were together. How much convincing does a person need. Is she so worried about what people will think if she if she comes back to me? Your not her and i know you may not be able to answer that.

 

 

If you are right and she is searching for validation from others, it is better to know that now. She is not ready for a serious commitment and she is DEFINITELY not ready for marriage.

 

Funny thing is she would tell me that i was the one who was not ready marrige. She even stated this to me on more a couple of times since the breakup. Again making this my fault.

 

You are right. She owes you nothing right now.

 

But you are also VERY right about owing her nothing either. We'll come back to this thought at the end.

 

 

 

 

Her health is her responsibility. Even being in a committed relationship that would be the case. She has to be an adult. Again she is exhibiting very immature behavior - she is reckless and treating her health as if she is invincible.

 

Because i still love and care about her i worry. I have seen a couple of solid people in my life self destruct in situations like this. She needs to be diligent if she is going to stay heathy but her inconsistancy will only cause more issues. Why is it that someone who was always on me about things not able to police themselves? Loaded question i know.

 

 

 

It sounds like it is a phase. And it sounds like she has this in her - this immature vein that will continue to surface. Until she grows up mentally it will come out at various times.

 

Scary thought but i guess better now than in 5 years married with two kids. I just wish someone would sit her down and snap her out of it.

 

 

Another symptom of this is the sudden partying behavior and shuffling of priorities (moving her schedule around to accommodate the need to be out and about).

 

I understand this because i did this in my late teens and early twenties. I thought she had already been down this road. I still think we all do this to some degree but not every weekend.

 

 

 

I would caution you about talking to her family or friends about anything to do with the relationship or lack thereof. NOTHING good ever comes of it. Anything said is shaded to preserve feelings or emphasized to accentuate their own agenda.

 

If what you say is repeated to her, it is often miscommunicated or twisted to again accentuate their own agenda.

 

Too many cooks spoil the broth. Keep everyone and anyone who know the two of you out of it.

 

You may have someone to confide in whom you can trust not to repeat anything to her EVER. No matter if you get back together or not -- EVER.

Talk to that person but not anyone else. And certainly not members of "her camp".

 

If it comes up - you just politely and immediately change the subject with no disclosure.

 

----

I was sort of cornered the other night the statement i made was all that said on the subject. I just smiled and nodded the rest of the time.

 

You do not owe her anything. At this point your attitude should be, "I've done what was asked and you are either with me or not. No back and forth no games and no 'I need to see more'. Either you are or you aren't".

 

That should be your ATTITUDE. And then, observing her ACTIONS, you should be thinking "obviously you AREN'T."

 

I have this attitude but it comes and goes. I cannot stay consistant. At least it's coming a month ago these thoughts were never in my head.

 

And be in NC -- no matter what comes up -- she is not your responsibility, you owe her NOTHING (not in action, word, etc.) no matter what is happening in her life. You are not a part of her life right now so you have nothing at all to do with it. She needs to figure her crap out on her own

 

I'm trying but she is in the same circle of friends. These people were my friends long before we started dating (years and years). I am not going to let her take that away from me also. If she cannot deal with it then she can stay away. I have kept these people out of it, she can do what she wants.

 

Thanks island girl. I guess the hard part for me is realizing that she is a person capabe of all the Manipulation and having her cake and eating it to type stuff.. I am not only losing her but i am loosing her family who i had become close to. I wish she would listen to her heart as the song goes and not to people who do not even know me or our situation from both sides.

[Island Girl]

We have a very good mutual friend that we and others were planning a big graduation party for. This has been ongoing for a while. He is getting his masters and it was one of those rent out a room in a nice resturant affairs. She had questions since i set up the facilities. Her reason was valid.

 

Okay - valid reason. But is there any way that communication - even about this - can be altered so you do not have to speak with her at all? Aren't there other people planning it as well?

 

If you must speak regarding the party - keep it business only. No talk or comments regarding anything personal. Deflect them if she brings it up and don't bring it up yourself.

 

She did however question why i did not try to get ahold of her since last week. I replied " Since you did not answer my texts or return my message i figured you were trying to tell me something. I took it as my que that you did not want to talk and besides i was busy. i was out of town at W's house ( a friend of mine)."

 

I wish the reply had been only what I have bolded. She shouldn't get any information at this point about your personal life (where you have been or what you have been doing).

 

"Since you did not answer my texts or return my message i figured you were trying to tell me something. I took it as my que that you did not want to talk"

 

When you read this don't you see that it conveys she is holding the reigns? That you made the move of not speaking with her out of sadness. That is not putting you in a position of strength but weakness. It conveys "doormat". At this point she has made you dance to her tune and dictated how the relationship will progress or not progress. It needs to become you that calls your own shots. --- This is SO hard for me to explain!

 

Any statement from you about anything should not allude to HER being part of your decision process even if she is. Information should be on a "need to know" basis. She does not need to know anything but the bare minimum.

 

More like "Oh. I was just busy. Why? Did you need to talk to me about something?" And then keep in mind that the conversation should be matter of fact or strictly business. No discussion of the relationship. That would be discussing the past at this point and the subject has been discussed enough. Too much in my opinion.

 

 

It is hard when you initiate conversations like this and the other person makes it one sided. It was all my fault or at least she makes me feel like it is. I have made attempts at this acouple of times but she alwasy responds with "ok but you you you" As if i did everything wrong. How do i get her to own up. Without her acknowledging the issues we cant resolve things that she has told others she wants to resolve.

 

Do not initiate conversations about your relationship. At this point the relationship is over and there is nothing to talk about. You are not having discussions of what needs to be different from a common point of wanting a mutual understanding in the attempt at moving forward. The only thing you are doing is putting it all out there for fault to be assigned - and she is getting really good at turning all fingers around to point at you. Just do not go there.

 

There is nothing to discuss at this point. The relationship - how it was - what happened throughout - is over. No discussion needed.

 

Until there is an overture on her part that she'd like reconciliation there is nothing - NOTHING - to talk about.

 

And even then - IF she does make it known she'd like to be back together - the problems of the past should not be hammered on any more. Then, and only then, there can be a discussion about how things will be in the future. But very little - demonstration by actions is worth a million words. Talk is cheap and gets old VERY fast. As you well know by now.

 

 

Funny thing about this is that when she found out about the ring she said to someone that "Ok well I feel that I made all of the effort in the relationship and now I want to see effort from him". WHAHHHH??? What else does she need? She lived in my house for two years. I never asked her for anything in return but i always appreciated what she did. My payment was having her with me. That is all i needed.

 

Admirable that loving her and her loving you was enough. Working and providing a home is a huge effort. It seems she doesn't recognize that.

 

The comment she made makes her sound like an immature spoiled brat.

 

* just as an observation, again I see this comment came from a third party. I hope anything anyone has to say now is discouraged by you and that you change the subject immediately if it comes up within your mutual circle of friends. The talking and commenting needs to be done with. And in the future, just don't let it happen whether it is her or anyone else.

 

I do not think she had enough faith in me that i would respond to the break up with the changes she wanted. I think that she maybe thought that i would curl up into a little ball and continue with my life just the way it was. She got thrown a curve ball that she does not know how to hit (sorry i play baseball) and i think it confused the hell out of her. For her now it is probably easier to do what she is doing.

 

You extend way too much thought and excuses for her. When she broke up with you, it was not to give you a wake up call. If that had been the case - she'd be back now and working on moving forward.

 

She was unhappy in the relationship and wanted out. She had "reasons" that she explained were your fault. But she had made up her mind before she left that she wanted to do just as she is doing right now. That is why it is not easy for her to give up her new life and come back.

 

 

I have probably answered this in the above but i agree. But how does she expect me to chase her in the dark. I have recieved so many mixed messages that i could write a book on the subject. And yes our problems were not that severe. I have friends that have gone thru much worse, cheating etc that are now happily married.

 

And they are together because both people are working toward the same common goal.

 

She is not working on reparations for your relationship. She is not showing she was "marriage minded" and thinking of the reality of marriage with you.

 

She may have wanted the fantasy but the reality of "through thick and thin" was not a part of her picture. She is showing you that now.

 

 

Maybe she wants to see how far i will go. Maybe when she tells me about her adventures she's expecting me to react differently. Maybe she expected me to be at her doorstep with flowers everyday like in the movies. Well i really did not do any of that.

 

If she was sure she wanted to spend the rest of her life with you and, again, was embracing the reality of what that commitment means then she would be back after seeing what had been requested completed.

 

She is not back. She is still flitting around fully embracing a single life.

 

 

And i am sure the ho's she is hanging out with now tell her that i really do not care since i am not doing theese things. Hell i have (soon had since i cannot keep it for long without getting my money back) an engagement ring. I think that speaks louder that 50 dozen roses. I wonder if she has mentioned the ring to the Ho's? Sorry about the term but from what i know thats what they are.

 

I'd return the ring for full refund if you can do so.

 

At this point, even if she came back, you have seen enough that there can be no picking up where you left off. It would be a HUGE mistake to propose to her without considerable time together reestablishing the relationship.

 

She has shown you that she is immature, manipulative, and a different side than you have ever known. You do not want to marry a woman you do not truly KNOW - or one with whom you will wonder, somewhere in the back of your mind, "What will happen when there are problems? Will she bail out and run...?"

 

 

The owner of the buisness i run is very stubborn. I seem to surround myself with stubborn people.

It took me a long time to convince him th make the change. But it was not only going to be good for me and her it was going to be good for the buisness. I am always a day late and a dollar short.

 

Perhaps not. You are thinking of this the wrong way.

 

YOU ARE LUCKY to see what you are seeing right now. You are lucky and should be very thankful you are seeing this from her before you got married to her.

 

It was a good move for the business as well. So that is always good.

 

If it is not going to be her that is by your side, then it will be another. You never know what is around the corner.

 

 

 

Yeah i know. But she has my heart. In the last month or so my brain has begun to take over a bit more. That is where the N/C came form. My heart had a very hard time with it. Can someone become a manipulator without never showing that side before?

 

Listen to your head. Your heart is being twisted and pulled at by her.

 

The heart is a funny thing. It can go through tremendous pain and still be full of such love. Sometimes it betrays how strong it is. And although it seems there could never be another, and it is in fact your heart that screams this out, it is a lie. You can love another perhaps even more.

 

Of course one can become manipulative. And my guess is these new friends of hers are teaching her a thing or two as well.

 

 

I have always been commited to her from day one and i have never given up on her. This is what i was tought all my life. Let her try and find that in her new crowd. As a friend told me she is setting herslef up for another failure. She has always dated guys that have walked all over her or have had issues. her last long term even cheated on her.

 

I applaud your ability to commit so fully. But it must be tempered with self preservation as well.

 

As long as she was with you it is a good thing to be committed to her. But when she walked You should NOT remain as committed. Sure you can work on things as you have done. But there needs to be a separation on your side as well. A gathering of yourself and your priorities.

 

Your perspective needs to be you FIRST.

 

Hard as it may seem she is an outsider now. And that is how she needs to be treated. No longer does she have carte blanche access to your life or information about your life. That is extended to her when she is by your side - fully committed to a life together.

 

And don't listen to what she is doing either. Don't ask. And if others are telling you - change the subject immediately. It will just frustrate you and there is nothing you can do about it anyway.

 

If you happen to talk to her - limit the conversation to her health. If she starts talking about her escapades, change the subject.

 

 

I keep telling myself that she may never get to fully experience the changes i have made. The break up was the catylst but the effort is all mine. What ever heartache she is going thru may be in vein. Why will she not take advantage of what she asked for? SHEESH.

 

Exactly. If it is what she wanted - she would.

 

If it is not to be her then who ever i am with next is going to be one lucky girl because of all this.

 

A very lucky girl indeed. Especially if you can get your head back in the game and get the boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable back.

 

Sacrificing your self esteem is never helpful. Being put in a situation where that is expected of you is not someone loving you and should not be even entertained as an option. Humbling yourself is different from not having a backbone. You have to know when to say when, you know?

 

I'll illustrate my point.

 

My husband and I went through a very difficult problem years ago. He had made a very big mistake - he recognized that. There were conversations about it - lots of conversations. I explained how I felt from A to Z over and over again. He apologized. Over and over again.

 

A married friend of mine told me I had to stop doing this.

 

1. It was becoming all we talked about and it was unpleasant for both of us.

 

2. Any good times and feelings of being happy were rapidly becoming our past.

 

I had to either decide to forgive, be with him, and let him show me by action that he understood what the MANY conversations had been about. Or break up with him. Because the conversations were killing what was between us and soon one or both of us were going to throw up our hands and walk away.

 

Soon after this the same conversation came up again. We were on the phone. And my husband (we weren't married at the time - this was a couple years before) told me point blank "I'm not going to do this anymore. I want to talk with you - about anything else - but no amount of talking is going to change the past. You're going to have to let go and let me show you I get it. So if this is just going to be the same conversation we have been having then I'm going to say good bye, hang up, and you can call me when you are ready to move past this."

 

I was completely indignant (because I am a spoiled brat - but hey I can admit it and am aware of it). But he was right. And I knew he was. He was echoing my best friend's advice to me - and no, they hadn't seen or talked to each other.

 

It was just the truth.

 

I decided to let go - forgive (that doesn't mean forget) - and allow him to show me he got the point of all of those conversations.

 

 

 

I do not think that she thought i would have responded to the break up in the manner that i have. Everyone knows that she left and i think that pride might be a factor in her not coming back. She, i think had everyone convinced that i was the way i was and by my actions i have proven her wrong. Could be trying to stretch this out as long as she can to save face?

 

I don't think so.

 

But if by some strange stretch it is so - that is the most absolutely asinine reason for living with the pain of being separated from a loved one - and causing that loved one pain - that I have ever heard of.

 

 

About her actions? Well, she could be showing her tru colors. How can someone hide them for three years? I never thought she was capable of doing this. I think that her actions are the result of bad influence from bad people , confusion, a little immaturity, and a bit of the before mentioned med condition. She claims she still loves me but she is not doing a good job of showing it.

 

She wasn't put in a position of showing you this side of her. If she is so easily influenced that says a lot. More than a little immaturity don't you think?

 

As far as her saying she still loves you, my reply would be "actions speak louder than words, don't they?" along with a chuckle and a quick end to the conversation.

 

 

Amen to that. I am a firm beliver in confronting problems head on when they are brought to my attention.You just do not bail when the going gets tough. I think if you do it is a sign of immaturity and or confusion. This is soething i never saw in her before.

 

Immaturity yes. Confusion yes. Your problem? No.

 

Be very glad you are seeing it now. Eyes open, right?

 

 

She is still convinced that she is the one who put in all the effort while we were together. How much convincing does a person need.

 

When it is what they want -- not much. In fact some people can take the most minute action and build a mountain of faith and hope on that. But, again, it has to be what they want.

 

And then no amount of convincing or reasonable thought can convince them differently. But that is only if they really do want it.

 

Is she so worried about what people will think if she if she comes back to me? Your not her and i know you may not be able to answer that.

 

If her actions are dictated by what others think in any way - you need to walk. Until she finds her own sense of self - she is not who she will inevitably be.

 

Funny thing is she would tell me that i was the one who was not ready marrige. She even stated this to me on more a couple of times since the breakup. Again making this my fault.

 

Often that is one's own fears being restated. Perhaps she has known all along that she is not ready for all of the work it would take and also not ready to limit her future to marriage and you for the rest of her life.

 

 

Because i still love and care about her i worry. I have seen a couple of solid people in my life self destruct in situations like this. She needs to be diligent if she is going to stay heathy but her inconsistancy will only cause more issues. Why is it that someone who was always on me about things not able to police themselves? Loaded question i know.

 

I know you love her. I know you want her to be okay.

 

But there is nothing you can do about what she is doing, her choices, her life. You are not a part of it anymore. It is difficult. I know that it is. But you can't worry about what you have no control over.

 

And to your question - my husband has gout. I am always trying to monitor how he's eating and reminding him of the need to watch all of that. He loves to eat but he also loves working out.

 

I don't eat as healthy as I should. But it is way easier for me to take care of him than to discipline myself.

 

 

 

I understand this because i did this in my late teens and early twenties. I thought she had already been down this road. I still think we all do this to some degree but not every weekend.

 

Certainly not every weekend when you are ready to get married and found the man you want to marry. That takes precedence and one moves into the next phase which is marriage and family.

 

 

I'm trying but she is in the same circle of friends. These people were my friends long before we started dating (years and years). I am not going to let her take that away from me also. If she cannot deal with it then she can stay away. I have kept these people out of it, she can do what she wants.

 

I completely agree. Maintain your friendships. Become more involved with them - lean on them to keep you busy.

 

And you can only control yourself. Keeping them out of it is the best thing you can do.

 

If she chooses to stay away or not - whatever. But if she makes the attempt to involve them, and you aren't, she is slowly going to be ostracized.

 

It is just like the first lines from the Ella Wheeler Wilcox poem Solitude:

 

Laugh, and the world laughs with you

Weep, and you weep alone

For the sad old Earth must borrow it's mirth

But has trouble enough of it's own.

 

 

I hope that helps.

[marlena]

Amazing post, Island Girl! I soaked up every word! Incredible analysis! Very incisive!!! FRD150!! Please listen to IG!!! She has definitely made some irrefutable points!

[Island Girl]

Amazing post, Island Girl! I soaked up every word! Incredible analysis! Very incisive!!! FRD150!! Please listen to IG!!! She has definitely made some irrefutable points!

 

Thank you Marlena.

 

frd150 - are you out there? Just busy this weekend? I know you always say you like the straight truth but I feel you are also a sensitive soul. Although I can be frank at times I hope I give you strength.

[AriaIncognito]

Amazing post, Island Girl! I soaked up every word! Incredible analysis! Very incisive!!! FRD150!! Please listen to IG!!! She has definitely made some irrefutable points!

 

IG is always dead on with her posts. :-) We should all be so strong and wise as she is. I'm hoping for that day to come for myself...any day now.

[Island Girl]

IG is always dead on with her posts. :-) We should all be so strong and wise as she is. I'm hoping for that day to come for myself...any day now.

 

You're closer than you think!

[frd150]

frd150 - are you out there? Just busy this weekend? I know you always say you like the straight truth but I feel you are also a sensitive soul. Although I can be frank at times I hope I give you strength.

 

Hey Island Girl,

 

I'm here. Sorry but am riding in a car at the moment. I am a couple of hours from home.

 

I decided to head out to the lake today with some friends and the boat.

 

I am typing from my phone so it is kinda slow. Or it's just probably me.

 

I respond when i get to my desktop. It is just much easier.

 

I read your previous post and yes, I have gained lots of strength.

 

Don't worry marlena i am listening.

 

Be back on asap.

[frd150]

Sorry,

 

I got home last night and i was pretty tired. I can sometimes post from work but i had to complete a project today.

 

 

Okay - valid reason. But is there any way that communication - even about this - can be altered so you do not have to speak with her at all? Aren't there other people planning it as well?

 

For the most part my job is done on this. Just a few loose ends to tie up. A mutual girlfriend has volenteered to help given the situation.

 

If you must speak regarding the party - keep it business only. No talk or comments regarding anything personal. Deflect them if she brings it up and don't bring it up yourself.

Done And done.

 

I wish the reply had been only what I have bolded. She shouldn't get any information at this point about your personal life (where you have been or what you have been doing).

 

"Since you did not answer my texts or return my message i figured you were trying to tell me something. I took it as my que that you did not want to talk"

When i read it i do realize that i sounded like a wuss. I think these things come from somwhere in my subconcious and then straight to my mouth. I do remember thinking "oooo shouldn't have said that"

 

 

When you read this don't you see that it conveys she is holding the reigns? That you made the move of not speaking with her out of sadness. That is not putting you in a position of strength but weakness. It conveys "doormat". At this point she has made you dance to her tune and dictated how the relationship will progress or not progress. It needs to become you that calls your own shots. --- This is SO hard for me to explain!

 

Any statement from you about anything should not allude to HER being part of your decision process even if she is. Information should be on a "need to know" basis. She does not need to know anything but the bare minimum.

She called me today because she knew i had a doctors appointment regarding some surgery i might have to have. She wanted to know what was decided by the doctor and she seemed to genuinely care about how i felt about what was decided. The conversation turned to an update on her health. She is pretty sick right now. Thats it, no relationship talk what so ever. One thing that she said kind of got to me though. She wastalking about something that had to do with her health and she made the statement " While i was with you":( . This caused me to pause for a minute. I know that it it is a perfectly natural thing to say since we are not together. It just stung a little.

 

 

More like "Oh. I was just busy. Why? Did you need to talk to me about something?" And then keep in mind that the conversation should be matter of fact or strictly business. No discussion of the relationship. That would be discussing the past at this point and the subject has been discussed enough. Too much in my opinion.

 

I agree. I am tired of re hashing the past. It is all about the future. I am tired of smelling that "dead horse". Time to drag it out back and bury it. I will do my best to keep it to what is going on now.

 

 

Do not initiate conversations about your relationship. At this point the relationship is over and there is nothing to talk about. You are not having discussions of what needs to be different from a common point of wanting a mutual understanding in the attempt at moving forward. The only thing you are doing is putting it all out there for fault to be assigned - and she is getting really good at turning all fingers around to point at you. Just do not go there.

So i guess what you are saying is if we keep re hashing the past there cannot be a healthy future between us. In whatever form.

 

There is nothing to discuss at this point. The relationship - how it was - what happened throughout - is over. No discussion needed.

 

Until there is an overture on her part that she'd like reconciliation there is nothing - NOTHING - to talk about.

Balls in her court if i want to keep playing the game??

 

And even then - IF she does make it known she'd like to be back together - the problems of the past should not be hammered on any more. Then, and only then, there can be a discussion about how things will be in the future. But very little - demonstration by actions is worth a million words. Talk is cheap and gets old VERY fast. As you well know by now.

 

Until then i will keep it to what is going on now, besides un soliceted future talk may push her further away or at least thats what i feel might happen.

 

 

Admirable that loving her and her loving you was enough. Working and providing a home is a huge effort. It seems she doesn't recognize that.

I do not think that she has ever been in a position to fully appreciate this. I worked my tail off to buy a house in a good area with good schools knowing that someday WE will have kids. I could have purchased somewhere else but i am always thinking of the future. Perhaps i should have been more clear about what it took for both of us to live here. I guess it may not matter anymore.

 

The comment she made makes her sound like an immature spoiled brat.

 

I will not defender her on this . I was pretty pissed when i heard it.

 

* just as an observation, again I see this comment came from a third party. I hope anything anyone has to say now is discouraged by you and that you change the subject immediately if it comes up within your mutual circle of friends. The talking and commenting needs to be done with. And in the future, just don't let it happen whether it is her or anyone else.

I took your advice on this last night on our way home . A mutual friend brought up the situation out of concern for both of us . I gave a couple of brief need to know type answers and then i quickly changed the subject to something much more fun.

 

You extend way too much thought and excuses for her. When she broke up with you, it was not to give you a wake up call. If that had been the case - she'd be back now and working on moving forward.

 

She was unhappy in the relationship and wanted out. She had "reasons" that she explained were your fault. But she had made up her mind before she left that she wanted to do just as she is doing right now. That is why it is not easy for her to give up her new life and come back.

 

It was obvious to me that she had been thinking about it for a while. In My ADULT mind if i whre in her shoes i would have at least sat me down for a real conversation well in advance. I feel that most things can be worked out in relationships if there are not such things as cheating or abuse. I really wish i woud have had a chance to have that conversation with her. She took the easy road.

 

 

 

And they are together because both people are working toward the same common goal.

They worked it out as adults. One of those couples was with us yesterday. They are doing great.

 

 

She is not working on reparations for your relationship. She is not showing she was "marriage minded" and thinking of the reality of marriage with you.

 

She may have wanted the fantasy but the reality of "through thick and thin" was not a part of her picture. She is showing you that now.

Could have fooled me. She brought it up alot in the last few months.

 

 

 

If she was sure she wanted to spend the rest of her life with you and, again, was embracing the reality of what that commitment means then she would be back after seeing what had been requested completed.

 

She is not back. She is still flitting around fully embracing a single life.

 

She seems to be doing theese check ups on me. What am i being tested ? I have had a few girls tell me that if their mates were doing have of what i have yada yada yada. And the all seem to have someone they want to set me up with. Been down that road . I am not yet ready to make a u turn .

 

The coment that was made to me is that she is actually not going out that much at all. Not like i would think. "she is probably exagerating a bit" Thats where i changed the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd return the ring for full refund if you can do so.

Working on it:(

 

At this point, even if she came back, you have seen enough that there can be no picking up where you left off. It would be a HUGE mistake to propose to her without considerable time together reestablishing the relationship.

Several people here have advised me to start fresh. I agree it is the only way. Let's see if there will be a chance for this.

 

She has shown you that she is immature, manipulative, and a different side than you have ever known. You do not want to marry a woman you do not truly KNOW - or one with whom you will wonder, somewhere in the back of your mind, "What will happen when there are problems? Will she bail out and run...?"

Yeah but what is causing this? In over three years she was never like this. I will really have to think about this huh?

 

 

Perhaps not. You are thinking of this the wrong way.

 

YOU ARE LUCKY to see what you are seeing right now. You are lucky and should be very thankful you are seeing this from her before you got married to her.

 

Oh yeah this is where the heart brain thing comes in. My brain is saying exactly what you said but my heart needs a hearing aid.

 

It was a good move for the business as well. So that is always good.

 

If it is not going to be her that is by your side, then it will be another. You never know what is around the corner.

 

 

 

 

 

Listen to your head. Your heart is being twisted and pulled at by her.

 

The heart is a funny thing. It can go through tremendous pain and still be full of such love. Sometimes it betrays how strong it is. And although it seems there could never be another, and it is in fact your heart that screams this out, it is a lie. You can love another perhaps even more.

This is the phase i am in this is my struggle now.

 

Of course one can become manipulative. And my guess is these new friends of hers are teaching her a thing or two as well.

You think? These people have no regard for me or her for that matter and the relationship we had together. They know nothing of how it really was or how much i love her. I is so easy for the ignorant to monday morning quarterback.

 

 

 

I applaud your ability to commit so fully. But it must be tempered with self preservation as well.

 

As long as she was with you it is a good thing to be committed to her. But when she walked You should NOT remain as committed. Sure you can work on things as you have done. But there needs to be a separation on your side as well. A gathering of yourself and your priorities.

 

 

Your perspective needs to be you FIRST.

 

My motivation for all the self improvement comes from this thought now. I guess that if it brings her back that will be a bonus. Or the bonus may be meeting someone new later on. Who knows. I have a long road ahead towrds my personal goals.

 

 

Hard as it may seem she is an outsider now. And that is how she needs to be treated. No longer does she have carte blanche access to your life or information about your life. That is extended to her when she is by your side - fully committed to a life together.

 

And don't listen to what she is doing either. Don't ask. And if others are telling you - change the subject immediately. It will just frustrate you and there is nothing you can do about it anyway.

 

If you happen to talk to her - limit the conversation to her health. If she starts talking about her escapades, change the subject.

I am listening and will try my hardest because i know it is for the best.

 

 

Exactly. If it is what she wanted - she would.

 

 

 

A very lucky girl indeed. Especially if you can get your head back in the game and get the boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable back.

 

Sacrificing your self esteem is never helpful. Being put in a situation where that is expected of you is not someone loving you and should not be even entertained as an option. Humbling yourself is different from not having a backbone. You have to know when to say when, you know?

Maybe i am just afraid of meeting someone new.But if i get a secnnd chance with her she will have to understand that she will be with a stronger more confident (not cocky) person.

I'll illustrate my point.

 

My husband and I went through a very difficult problem years ago. He had made a very big mistake - he recognized that. There were conversations about it - lots of conversations. I explained how I felt from A to Z over and over again. He apologized. Over and over again.

 

A married friend of mine told me I had to stop doing this.

 

1. It was becoming all we talked about and it was unpleasant for both of us.

 

2. Any good times and feelings of being happy were rapidly becoming our past.

 

I had to either decide to forgive, be with him, and let him show me by action that he understood what the MANY conversations had been about. Or break up with him. Because the conversations were killing what was between us and soon one or both of us were going to throw up our hands and walk away.

 

Soon after this the same conversation came up again. We were on the phone. And my husband (we weren't married at the time - this was a couple years before) told me point blank "I'm not going to do this anymore. I want to talk with you - about anything else - but no amount of talking is going to change the past. You're going to have to let go and let me show you I get it. So if this is just going to be the same conversation we have been having then I'm going to say good bye, hang up, and you can call me when you are ready to move past this."

 

I was completely indignant (because I am a spoiled brat - but hey I can admit it and am aware of it). But he was right. And I knew he was. He was echoing my best friend's advice to me - and no, they hadn't seen or talked to each other.

 

It was just the truth.

 

I decided to let go - forgive (that doesn't mean forget) - and allow him to show me he got the point of all of those conversations.

 

Why cant she get it? I get the point as your husband did. Make sure you tell him that he is a very lucky guy. As i said before most things can be worked out.

 

 

 

I don't think so.

 

But if by some strange stretch it is so - that is the most absolutely asinine reason for living with the pain of being separated from a loved one - and causing that loved one pain - that I have ever heard of.

 

She is very close to her family and i know for a fact she felt very embarressed about the move out. Our living together was not so accepted at first due to our religion. But you are right pretty asinine. You never know what goes through someones mind when they do something so drastic.

 

She wasn't put in a position of showing you this side of her. If she is so easily influenced that says a lot. More than a little immaturity don't you think?

Yes.

 

As far as her saying she still loves you, my reply would be "actions speak louder than words, don't they?" along with a chuckle and a quick end to the conversation.

Risky maybe but i will try.

 

 

Immaturity yes. Confusion yes. Your problem? No.

 

Be very glad you are seeing it now. Eyes open, right?

For sure. I am trying to learn whatever i can from this crappy experience.

 

 

When it is what they want -- not much. In fact some people can take the most minute action and build a mountain of faith and hope on that. But, again, it has to be what they want.

 

And then no amount of convincing or reasonable thought can convince them differently. But that is only if they really do want it.

Who knows what she wants at this point. I am becoming real impatient. I know what i want i knew all along. I will know to express this better the next time around or with the next person.

 

If her actions are dictated by what others think in any way - you need to walk. Until she finds her own sense of self - she is not who she will inevitably be.

Scary thought. You think she would have figured this out by now on her own.

 

Often that is one's own fears being restated. Perhaps she has known all along that she is not ready for all of the work it would take and also not ready to limit her future to marriage and you for the rest of her life.

Again, could have fooled me. Marrige was bruoght up alot but not in a nagging way.

 

 

 

I know you love her. I know you want her to be okay.

 

But there is nothing you can do about what she is doing, her choices, her life. You are not a part of it anymore. It is difficult. I know

that it is. But you can't worry about what you have no control over.

This has always been my downfall. I need to learn to let go of the of what i cannot control. Any suggestions?

 

And to your question - my husband has gout. I am always trying to monitor how he's eating and reminding him of the need to watch all of that. He loves to eat but he also loves working out.

 

I don't eat as healthy as I should. But it is way easier for me to take care of him than to discipline myself.

 

The saying goes easier said than done.

 

 

Certainly not every weekend when you are ready to get married and found the man you want to marry. That takes precedence and one moves into the next phase which is marriage and family.

 

 

 

 

I completely agree. Maintain your friendships. Become more involved with them - lean on them to keep you busy.

 

And you can only control yourself. Keeping them out of it is the best thing you can do.

 

If she chooses to stay away or not - whatever. But if she makes the attempt to involve them, and you aren't, she is slowly going to be ostracized.

I am doing my best not to makes this who i am. I was not this before her and if i want to keep my friends i cannot be this now. It is my/our problem if that makes sence.

It is just like the first lines from the Ella Wheeler Wilcox poem Solitude:

 

Laugh, and the world laughs with you

Weep, and you weep alone

For the sad old Earth must borrow it's mirth

But has trouble enough of it's own.

 

 

I hope that helps.

 

Thank you again. It does very much.

[Island Girl]

Sorry,

 

I got home last night and i was pretty tired. I can sometimes post from work but i had to complete a project today.

 

You owe ME no apologies. I was just thinking that you might have had a "down day" and I hoped my post was not a catalyst or add to the emotions.

 

 

For the most part my job is done on this. Just a few loose ends to tie up. A mutual girlfriend has volenteered to help given the situation.

 

Great! It is a very good move on your part.

 

 

When i read it i do realize that i sounded like a wuss. I think these things come from somwhere in my subconcious and then straight to my mouth. I do remember thinking "oooo shouldn't have said that"

 

No big deal. Lesson learned. If you feel you may slip take an extra moment to think about what you are going to say. No harm in that and we have all said things in a way that we wish we wouldn't have.

 

She called me today because she knew i had a doctors appointment regarding some surgery i might have to have. She wanted to know what was decided by the doctor and she seemed to genuinely care about how i felt about what was decided. The conversation turned to an update on her health. She is pretty sick right now. Thats it, no relationship talk what so ever. One thing that she said kind of got to me though. She wastalking about something that had to do with her health and she made the statement " While i was with you":( . This caused me to pause for a minute. I know that it it is a perfectly natural thing to say since we are not together. It just stung a little.

 

I'm glad there wasn't any hammering done about the past.

 

How much do you talk to her? Do you answer or call back whenever she calls you?

 

I know that statement stung. You're going to hate hearing this but that is why NC or very limited contact is best.

 

Besides, how can she miss what she still has?

 

 

I agree. I am tired of re hashing the past. It is all about the future. I am tired of smelling that "dead horse". Time to drag it out back and bury it. I will do my best to keep it to what is going on now.

 

Yep -- and very limited news delivered cursorily. Not rude but not an open door or open invitation for details to be divulged.

 

 

So i guess what you are saying is if we keep re hashing the past there cannot be a healthy future between us. In whatever form.

 

No. There has to be a future first. Only then does any discussion matter.

 

And that kind of discussion is open and accountable parties attempting to achieve resolution. Not tit for tat or scorecard blaming. That just doesn't get anyone any happiness.

 

Balls in her court if i want to keep playing the game??

 

Not really. The point is you are done playing the game. You have moved on to a new league.

 

IF she brings the past up -- and I am guessing she will at some point -- you're reply should be more along the lines of what my husband said.

 

Something definitive like, "We have hashed this out to death. I have demonstrated how much I care for you and want to move forward. Until you have the same outlook there is nothing to discuss."

 

Say it matter of fact and pause for her reaction. If it is ANYTHING else than a clear statement of wanting to be back, you have something you need to get to -- make yourself "busy" and get off the phone. Not angry and not hurt - just factual and busy.

 

That is your last statement.

 

You are claiming your masculinity back.

 

You are telling her you have a backbone and that you have reached your limit as far as the lengths you will go to when there has been only a negative return on your investment.

 

That is the signal that you are going NC. So be prepared for the step.

 

It is for your own self preservation. Very clearly the ball will be in her court. You need to step away and begin to move on.

 

If she wants it she'll step up.

 

If she doesn't, then you know. And you will also know you are not going to keep dancing to her tune like a puppet on a string just hoping when there is no indication from her that she'll ever be back.

 

That isn't good for you.

 

 

Until then i will keep it to what is going on now, besides un soliceted future talk may push her further away or at least thats what i feel might happen.

 

It just might. However, she was pushing marriage - not you. If "future talk" pushes her away she was never ready to be married. My thought is this is the case.

 

Talking about marriage and getting lost in the dream is a hell of a lot different than the reality. I talked marriage a lot -- I even GOT married not being ready for marriage.

THAT marriage obviously ended very quickly. I realized my mistake and filed for divorce. That was over 9 years ago.

 

I do not think that she has ever been in a position to fully appreciate this. I worked my tail off to buy a house in a good area with good schools knowing that someday WE will have kids. I could have purchased somewhere else but i am always thinking of the future. Perhaps i should have been more clear about what it took for both of us to live here. I guess it may not matter anymore.

 

Don't put too much stock in this -- that it would have made a difference. My feeling is that appreciation will not come for some time. It seems she'd need some more world experience to get the detail in that picture.

 

 

I took your advice on this last night on our way home . A mutual friend brought up the situation out of concern for both of us . I gave a couple of brief need to know type answers and then i quickly changed the subject to something much more fun.

 

Perfect. And how did you feel? My bet is you felt pretty good. Sometimes "fake it till you make it" really does work. This is one of those times.

 

 

It was obvious to me that she had been thinking about it for a while. In My ADULT mind if i whre in her shoes i would have at least sat me down for a real conversation well in advance. I feel that most things can be worked out in relationships if there are not such things as cheating or abuse. I really wish i woud have had a chance to have that conversation with her. She took the easy road.

 

Yes, she did. If it were a marriage it should have been discussed. My husband and I had an understanding of how serious we were before our engagement. When the talk was about marriage we both understood that changed things. We both wanted to see the person we were going to be marrying - dealing with adversity or problems - in reality BEFORE that day.

The wedding day was not the day everything changed. The talk of marriage and getting engaged was when everything changed.

 

 

She seems to be doing theese check ups on me. What am i being tested ? I have had a few girls tell me that if their mates were doing have of what i have yada yada yada. And the all seem to have someone they want to set me up with. Been down that road . I am not yet ready to make a u turn .

 

Nice to know you have a great selection when you are ready.

 

You may not be ready for a U turn but you are ready for stop sign. Right now you are stuck on a raceway and she is just waving the flag as you go around and around and around.

 

Several people here have advised me to start fresh. I agree it is the only way. Let's see if there will be a chance for this.

 

The only way there will be any chance is for her to get her head back in the game. That won't happen as long as she has everything she wants from you (i.e. the caring, the shoulder to lean on, the knowledge that you are still trying to prove it to her) and still has her own life that is separate from you.

 

 

Yeah but what is causing this? In over three years she was never like this. I will really have to think about this huh?

 

What caused her to make decisions about walking away without talking to you first? I don't know. But it is certainly not the move of a marriage minded girl. Unless she was just trying to do something really big to get YOUR head in the game. In which case she'd be back already...

 

 

Oh yeah this is where the heart brain thing comes in. My brain is saying exactly what you said but my heart needs a hearing aid.

 

Tough. But it is time you show yourself some tough love. Walking away seems like it is going to destroy you but that is misleading. It is the only thing that will allow you to begin to heal. You'll be stronger for it and if she DOES come back - she'll be coming back to a stronger man.

 

 

You think? These people have no regard for me or her for that matter and the relationship we had together. They know nothing of how it really was or how much i love her. I is so easy for the ignorant to monday morning quarterback.

 

Yes, it is easy to do that but it also just as easy to tell people the real deal.

 

My friends are my friends because they tell me the truth as they see it. But it is my responsibility to give them an accurate picture of the circumstances. I do not let them slam my man about his wrong doings without telling them the truth about my actions. There have been times when I have said something feeling justified by the situation and they call me on it and tell me I am in the wrong for either saying what I did or saying it the way I said it.

 

And I provide the same kind of friendship to them.

 

Like attracts like.

 

 

Why cant she get it? I get the point as your husband did. Make sure you tell him that he is a very lucky guy. As i said before most things can be worked out.

 

Thank you for the compliment, however, it is I that am lucky.

 

He allows me to call a lot of shots but there is always the underlying tone that he is a man. He stands up to me and calls me on my crap when necessary. He does it in a way that pulls humility out of me - which is NOT easy. Just like when he echoed my friends advice to me. He was serious about what he said. I knew he was and would have hung up if I'd have kept going.

 

 

Risky maybe but i will try.

 

What are you risking? Being faced with the possibility that it is more over than it is now? The finality of it and having to walk away?

 

If it is done and over that day came and went with her move out.

 

All of the changing, etc. has been shown to her, proven to her, and she isn't back.

 

It is time for her to do some proving of her own. If she doesn't, she never intended to.

 

 

Who knows what she wants at this point. I am becoming real impatient. I know what i want i knew all along. I will know to express this better the next time around or with the next person.

 

Impatient? You are a saint. Most would be fed up.

 

It takes two to Tango and you're out on the floor spinning around by yourself right now.

 

 

This has always been my downfall. I need to learn to let go of the of what i cannot control. Any suggestions?

 

I wrestle with it daily! lol

 

But I have always known a person is with you because they want to be. Chasing and proving doesn't accomplish a reconciliation unless the person wants to be back. And then it happens right away because they can't stand to be gone.

 

 

I am doing my best not to makes this who i am. I was not this before her and if i want to keep my friends i cannot be this now. It is my/our problem if that makes sence.

 

I really think you are a remarkable man. Intelligent, expressive, and capable of absolute fidelity. You are a catch. If she doesn't get it --- she is obtuse. I wish you were thinking, "You think there is anyone better - who is going to treat you better - or love you better?! Then get on with you!"

 

 

Thank you again. It does very much.

 

I really do hope so. I hope you feel different when you come here and read. I hope it changes your outlook from being so inwardly focused. There is a lot on her side. More than you are accepting right now. She is still getting some passes because you do care about her. I understand the feelings but bad behavior is bad behavior. Hurting someone you claim to care about is not excusable.

 

Not to say it doesn't happen - or there aren't reasons sometimes - but that doesn't excuse it. Reparations should still be made.

[frd150]

You owe ME no apologies. I was just thinking that you might have had a "down day" and I hoped my post was not a catalyst or add to the emotions.

 

No it atually helped me put my emotions into perspective.

 

 

Great! It is a very good move on your part.

 

I am i am done for other reason. It was alot to do on top of other things i was doing.

 

 

No big deal. Lesson learned. If you feel you may slip take an extra moment to think about what you are going to say. No harm in that and we have all said things in a way that we wish we wouldn't have.

 

 

 

I'm glad there wasn't any hammering done about the past.

 

How much do you talk to her? Do you answer or call back whenever she calls you?

 

I know that statement stung. You're going to hate hearing this but that is why NC or very limited contact is best.

 

Besides, how can she miss what she still has

?

 

I talk to her every couple of days. She seems to be calling me now for random reasons. She did it last night. I was out with some people from my industry so i let it go to voice mail. Not as an act of rudness but out of respect for the people was with. She would have done the same.

 

 

 

Yep -- and very limited news delivered cursorily. Not rude but not an open door or open invitation for details to be divulged.

 

As much as i still want to share everything like i used to i guess what i have to remember is we are not together and i am positive she is not telling me everything.

 

 

No. There has to be a future first. Only then does any discussion matter.

 

And that kind of discussion is open and accountable parties attempting to achieve resolution. Not tit for tat or scorecard blaming. That just doesn't get anyone any happiness.

It has been more tit from her end;) . sorry but i had to say it. Seriously i am not one to hold grudges. I am of the belief that once someone owns up for their wrong doings then it it time to move past it. Life is too short to hold grudges. Except for when it comes to criminal acts like ,then my grudge rule goes out the window.

 

Just the other week i had a friend insult me in a rage for something very trivial. I was over it by the next day. but i knew i was not in the wrong and he would have to apologize if things were going to be the same. I did not hate him for it because i knew that something else must have triggered it. Well i was right. Two days later he called an apologized. Needless to say he was pretty red in the face. I am over it now despite how bad it was.

 

Not really. The point is you are done playing the game. You have moved on to a new league.

 

IF she brings the past up -- and I am guessing she will at some point -- you're reply should be more along the lines of what my husband said.

 

Something definitive like, "We have hashed this out to death. I have demonstrated how much I care for you and want to move forward. Until you have the same outlook there is nothing to discuss."

 

Say it matter of fact and pause for her reaction. If it is ANYTHING else than a clear statement of wanting to be back, you have something you need to get to -- make yourself "busy" and get off the phone. Not angry and not hurt - just factual and busy.

 

That is your last statement.

 

As scary as that sounds this may be the only thing i can say to drive the point home to her. I do not think she would expect me to to say anything like this.

 

You are claiming your masculinity back.

 

You are telling her you have a backbone and that you have reached your limit as far as the lengths you will go to when there has been only a negative return on your investment.

 

That is the signal that you are going NC. So be prepared for the step.

 

It is for your own self preservation. Very clearly the ball will be in her court. You need to step away and begin to move on.

 

If she wants it she'll step up.

 

If she doesn't, then you know. And you will also know you are not going to keep dancing to her tune like a puppet on a string just hoping when there is no indication from her that she'll ever be back.

 

That isn't good for you.

I have read this paragraph about 20 times. I guess my heart is scared of the reality that she might not want to step up.

 

My strength is coming from a continual thought of it is not about her anymore it's about me.

 

 

.

 

It just might. However, she was pushing marriage - not you. If "future talk" pushes her away she was never ready to be married. My thought is this is the case.

 

Talking about marriage and getting lost in the dream is a hell of a lot different than the reality. I talked marriage a lot -- I even GOT married not being ready for marriage.

THAT marriage obviously ended very quickly. I realized my mistake and filed for divorce. That was over 9 years ago

You could of fooled me. she seemed so suited for it. She seemd to me to be such a nurturer. The person i would want to be the mother of my children .

 

Wow as i'm typing this i am listening to Al Green on launch cast. "Im tired of being Alone" how aprapoe.

 

Don't put too much stock in this -- that it would have made a difference. My feeling is that appreciation will not come for some time. It seems she'd need some more world experience to get the detail in that picture.

 

I think you are right. I have been on my own alot longer. I have been broke and happy. I apprecieated everything i had. Now i am sad with money but my appretiation for the things i have has not changed. Money isnt everything, happiness is.

 

Perfect. And how did you feel? My bet is you felt pretty good. Sometimes "fake it till you make it" really does work. This is one of those times.

 

I was glad i had the strength to keep my mouth shut. your poem applies here for sure.

 

Yes, she did. If it were a marriage it should have been discussed. My husband and I had an understanding of how serious we were before our engagement. When the talk was about marriage we both understood that changed things. We both wanted to see the person we were going to be marrying - dealing with adversity or problems - in reality BEFORE that day.

The wedding day was not the day everything changed. The talk of marriage and getting engaged was when everything changed.

I called her bluff. I was as serious as she claimed to be about marrige. My actions now should be enough proof for her as to how i will handle adversity in the future. Well, i guess on the other hand her actions are showing me something about the future. Maybe there is really such thing as a crystal ball.

 

I listened to a song last night called "Thank God for unanswered prayers"

by Garth Brooks. Maybe just maybe.

 

 

Nice to know you have a great selection when you are ready.

 

You may not be ready for a U turn but you are ready for stop sign. Right now you are stuck on a raceway and she is just waving the flag as you go around and around and around.

 

What i meant is the being set up part but your right. I can picture in my head her up in that tower with the flag and m running around an empty track. Pretty exhausting thought.

 

The only way there will be any chance is for her to get her head back in the game. That won't happen as long as she has everything she wants from you (i.e. the caring, the shoulder to lean on, the knowledge that you are still trying to prove it to her) and still has her own life that is separate from you.

 

It is so hard for me to not act like i care because i genuinly do. I mean for instance i do not even know you but for this thread but i you told me something was not going right for you i would genuinly care. It is just my nature. You see i was given this "gift " by my mother wo raised me most of my life. The lady does not have a mead bone in her body.

 

 

 

 

 

What caused her to make decisions about walking away without talking to you first? I don't know. But it is certainly not the move of a marriage minded girl. Unless she was just trying to do something really big to get YOUR head in the game. In which case she'd be back already...

 

 

I saw that movie "the breakup "with Jennifer Aniston the other night. Now for the record these kinds of movies are not my favorite but the title got my attention. What you described is clase to what she did in the movie but it backfired on her. She did not get the response she thought she was going to get. Maybe the same for my ex with a twist.

 

Tough. But it is time you show yourself some tough love. Walking away seems like it is going to destroy you but that is misleading. It is the only thing that will allow you to begin to heal. You'll be stronger for it and if she DOES come back - she'll be coming back to a stronger man.

 

Aas i have pulled back more and more i have begun to remember how i was before. Stong minded and confident in myself despite my flaws. This feeling is becoming stronger everyday.

 

A stronger smarter man;)

 

 

 

Yes, it is easy to do that but it also just as easy to tell people the real deal.

 

My friends are my friends because they tell me the truth as they see it. But it is my responsibility to give them an accurate picture of the circumstances. I do not let them slam my man about his wrong doings without telling them the truth about my actions. There have been times when I have said something feeling justified by the situation and they call me on it and tell me I am in the wrong for either saying what I did or saying it the way I said it.

 

And I provide the same kind of friendship to them.

 

Like attracts like.

 

True. Thees people did not care about her when she was with me. She is easy prey now. I know people like this. They feed on the week so to speak in order to justify their actions. I hope that makes sense. In a click there always seems to ba one bonehead with a bunch of minoins rotating around them. Misery loves company.

 

 

Thank you for the compliment, however, it is I that am lucky.

 

He allows me to call a lot of shots but there is always the underlying tone that he is a man. He stands up to me and calls me on my crap when necessary. He does it in a way that pulls humility out of me - which is NOT easy. Just like when he echoed my friends advice to me. He was serious about what he said. I knew he was and would have hung up if I'd have kept going.

Touche'. The difference is you do not turn and run when he does this.

 

 

What are you risking? Being faced with the possibility that it is more over than it is now? The finality of it and having to walk away?

 

If it is done and over that day came and went with her move out.

 

All of the changing, etc. has been shown to her, proven to her, and she isn't back.

 

It is time for her to do some proving of her own. If she doesn't, she never intended to.

The finality is what is the scariest part. No more anything with her. I keep thinking is there something, one thing she is waiting for that i am not doing? I know, another loaded question.

 

 

Impatient? You are a saint. Most would be fed up.

Thank you. Most have told me they would be.

 

It takes two to Tango and you're out on the floor spinning around by yourself right now.

 

And i am a really bad dancer. Thats it, thats why she broke up with me:laugh:.

Seriously, I see your point.

 

I wrestle with it daily! lol

 

But I have always known a person is with you because they want to be. Chasing and proving doesn't accomplish a reconciliation unless the person wants to be back. And then it happens right away because they can't stand to be gone.

 

 

 

 

I really think you are a remarkable man. Intelligent, expressive, and capable of absolute fidelity. You are a catch. If she doesn't get it --- she is obtuse. I wish you were thinking, "You think there is anyone better - who is going to treat you better - or love you better?! Then get on with you!"

Again, thank you. No one will treat her better. She is ruining a good thing.

 

 

I really do hope so. I hope you feel different when you come here and read. I hope it changes your outlook from being so inwardly focused. There is a lot on her side. More than you are accepting right now. She is still getting some passes because you do care about her. I understand the feelings but bad behavior is bad behavior. Hurting someone you claim to care about is not excusable.

 

Not to say it doesn't happen - or there aren't reasons sometimes - but that doesn't excuse it. Reparations should still be made

 

I am gaining more strength. Whats worse on her part is that she just does not get it. It's worse if she does not realize how much i hurt. Thats just plain cold and selfish. as i said before 3 years. I never saw this side of her. I thought she was incapable of this. This is the real kicker.

 

F.Y.I. i talked to a relationship therepist that did not give even close to the advice you have given. It was very vague. The stuff you expect to hear. It makes me think that the degree on my wall is just a piece of paper. It's life that teaches you more. Where is the degree for that?

 

 

Thank you again. Check is in the mail.