Unconditional Love / Co-Dependency

[HokeyReligions]

There are so many definitions out there for these two types of behaviors or emotional descriptions. Sometimes even the experts don't agree and much of the diagnosis is subjective to the individual.

 

Some (many) doctors agree that there are distinct differences and behaviors that define these differences. I was told by a couple of doctors that I was co-dependent or exhibiting co-dependent behavior. I was also told my other doctors that I was NOT co-dependent and that I was dang lucky to love someone so much and so totally and so 'healthily'.

 

I am just curious about YOUR opinions on what constitutes a healthy love for someone that is deep and true and [seeminly] unconditional, and what constitutes a co-dependent relationship. I am helping someone write a paper for their high-school psych class by giving them my opinions and experience and by gathering other peoples opinions and organizing them. She will then categorize them and write her own summary of what she observed and what she interpreted. I'm also just curious how others view these things.

Basically I would like your opinions based on a romantic relationship where there is a commitment by both parties to be faithful to each other and where there has already been expressions of love from each for the other:

 

Is there such thing as unconditional love?

What is your definition of unconditional love?

 

Is there such thing as co-dependency?

What is your definiton of co-dependency?

 

What are the differences between the two?

When does a commited loving relationship become co-dependent? (what lines are crossed?)

Is co-dependency bad? Why?

 

Thanks for your input everyone.

[Debster]

I think the only example of unconditional love is a parent's love for a child. In my experience, no matter what that child does, the parent will always love them. Sisters, brothers and family members might not share unconditional love.

 

I think in marriage it is hard to find unconditional love, because if they cheat on you, abuse you, etc... many will leave the relationship. The co-dependent part, to me would be to stay in a relationship where you are repeatedly being treated poorly, either by blatant cheating, disrespect, abuse, etc.

[Tony T]

1. Is there such thing as unconditional love?

 

Yes

 

2. What is your definition of unconditional love?

 

Love without conditions. The love of a parent for a child or the love of God for man. ALL other love is conditioned upon something, unless the parties are mentally deficient.

 

3. Is there such thing as co-dependency?

 

There is a syndrome which uses that as a label so, in that respect, there is such a thing.

 

4. What is your definiton of co-dependency?

 

Codependency refers to individuals who suffer from constantly focusing on the needs and behaviors of others, often to the neglect of their own needs. It has been called "maladaptive behavior that results from a stressful preoccupation with another individual’s life."

 

5. What are the differences between the two?

 

The love of a parent for a child or God for man cannot be said to be maladaptive or have pathological roots of any kind. The unconditional love of a parent for a child is a biological and instinctual imperative to ensure to survival of the species.

 

6. When does a commited loving relationship become co-dependent?

 

When one partner becomes totally preoccupied with the needs of the other with no regard for his or her own happiness. Usually, one partner is either disabled in some way or has a problem which the other dedicates his or her life to dealing with. This is not love but an enabling that perpetuates the problem rather than fixes it.

 

7. Is co-dependency bad? Why?

 

Co-dependendent relationships are unhealthy and unfulfilling in many ways. However, they beat getting run over by a Mack truck.

 

Co-dependency robs a person of a life in which they could pursue healthy, fulfilling relationships with people who can enrich their lives rather than with people who will drain them to death. It is a self-perpetuating syndrome that is passed down generationally.

 

You can get a wealth of information on codependency simply by entering the term in a good search engine such as http://www.google.com Matter of fact, you can read about it for days.

 

I wish your friend good luck on her paper. A pretty heavy subject for a high school psych class.

[HokeyReligions]

Thanks all. I was a psych major in college, but did not follow through and get my Ph.D (I had about a year and a half to go!) Things have changed since then (that was a very long time ago) and there are all sorts of new "diseases" that have been indentified. (they've always been there, but now they have names and definitions and symptoms and even treatments)

 

Here is how I feel about it. When I was first told that I was co-dependent by a doctor, I got out all the old information I could find and looked up new info too. I did not feel that I was co-dependent even though I fit the pattern.

 

The joy and focus of my life is my family - mainly my husband. I'm happy when he is happy and I feel bad when he does and then I want to make him happy. I live my life for and around my family. My goals are to make them happy - thereby making myself happy and having a fulfilling life.

 

My husband had/has a debilitating emotional problem that stemmed from his abusive parents and the torment he suffered at their hands when growing up. It left him scarred and in severe emotional distress. I have dedicated my life to helping him because I love him. I made a commitment to him and I will always be here for him. It hurts me to see him in pain.

 

My love for him is not conditional upon anything and I'm not mentally deficient. We have split up in the past and I was devastated, but I also worked hard to get back together because I knew it was right for both of us. Even if I could be convinced that separation was best - I would still love him and would still be around to support him if he needed me. Much as I would for a child.

 

Sounds like co-dependency huh? It's not. I bring happiness to the marriage too. I have experiences outside of the home - I work and interract with others. My life is enriched by seeing the happiness in my family, by creating contentment and security.

 

I had a doctor tell me that for my own good I should divorce my husband and move on to find healthy relationships. He even gave me a time line and a set of "rules or guidelines" for a relationship and if each of those guidelines was not met in a certain period of time, then it was time to move on!

 

Tony, I've heard your answers before (& read almost the same thing in text books) and I agree for the most part, but I don't agree that they are set in stone. There are always exceptions and much of it is relative to the individuals involved.

 

The "relative" part is where it gets sticky. Who can say where an individuals emotional needs are being neglected. Person "A" might need a certain amount of physical contact in order to feel loved, if they don't receive it then their need to feel secure in knowing they are loved is not being met. Person "B" might not need any physical contact. To me, there is a lot more than deciding to go or stay in the relationship. So many people nowadays go for the quick fix.

 

Debster, your response was great. It was amophorus enough to cover everything without getting into details that might bog people down.

 

There are still some people who think that I should get out of the marriage because of the [seeming] lack of intimacy and because they think I'm co-dependent and miserable. When the truth is that those people just could'nt live my life and be happy so they don't see how I can be happy. But that doesn't make me co-dependent. I've seen others who I have wondered about and admired them because I couldn't live their life.

 

Just thought I'd throw that in and see if it prompts any more comments.

[Debster]

I've read a couple of your posts before and while your marriage is not what I would want, if it works for you and you are happy with it and getting what you need out of it, than that's great.

[Tony T]

YOU WRITE: "Tony, I've heard your answers before (& read almost the same thing in text books) and I agree for the most part, but I don't agree that they are set in stone. There are always exceptions and much of it is relative to the individuals involved."

 

I think that's true of almost everything in life. I am glad that you acknowledge this.

[quankanne]

but, all things considered, a good one, because I don't think kids that age realize all the little things that go into a relationship (good or bad), and mabe someone will benefit from all our wisdom ....

 

• Is there such thing as unconditional love? What is your definition of unconditional love?

 

yep, there's such a think called unconditional love, most evident between a parent and a child. And I agree with Tony's example of God's love for man as unconditional, but since not everyone believes in God, I'll stick with something they probably know first-hand, parental love. Because it is unconditional, a parent is able to see through the hurt and pain their child might cause them and focus on the love in that relationship.

 

• s there such thing as co-dependency? What is your definiton of co-dependency? What are the differences between the two? When does a commited loving relationship become co-dependent? Is co-dependency bad? Why?

I've got a split mindset on that question. In one sense, yes, and it's evident in relationships where one partner so badly misuses and mistreats the other and that person (the recipient) clings to the relationship thinking that this is the best they can do. However, I often wonder if the term co-dependent isn't overused to explain every relationship we see that we don't understand. Maybe interdependent is a more appropriate word? As when you rely on your mate's strength in your time of need and vice versa, and it doesn't take away from or damage the sum total of your relationship. Maybe the definining mark should be just that, how it affects the sum total of your relationship. Hokey mentioned her relationship with her husband, how his joys are hers, his sorrows are hers, too, etc. It's that way in a lot of close relationships (be it marriage or friendship, even between sibs or parents and children). But that doesn't mean she's co-dependent, in my way of thinking. However, if she beat her husband, or he mentally abused her or something like that, and they still stayed together, THEN I'd typify that relationship as co-dependent and very unhealthy for the parties involved.

[moimeme]

I noticed this thread the other day and thought I'd weigh in.

 

Is there such thing as unconditional love?

 

Yes. I think it's the 'Agape' the Greeks spoke of. Yes, parents have it for children and, in enlightened moments, people can have it for mankind as a whole. Loving adults that way is much harder.

 

What is your definition of unconditional love?

Love the individual despite the individual's actions.

 

Is there such thing as co-dependency?

Sure.

 

What is your definiton of co-dependency?

I defer to the 'experts' such as they are. There are sites aplenty with definitions but I think one can't neglect some of the important elements such as needing to control someone.

 

When does a commited loving relationship become co-dependent? (what lines are crossed?)

 

I think that love becomes codependent when one or both people literally depends on the dysfunctioning relationship for fulfilment; in other words, they'd be lost if the 'patient' were to be cured.

 

Is co-dependency bad? Why?

 

Depends. We have developed an idea of what a relationship 'should' be which, I think, has been overly influenced by the 'me generation' and the whole love affair with 'assertiveness' which came about in the 70s. Suddenly, unselfishness became unpopular and people who wanted to give to others were admonished and advised not to be 'doormats'. As I said before, it's as if every adult is expected to be fully self-actualized, no matter how his or her life may have gone - and therefore nobody is allowed any slack because they are supposed to behave perfectly at all times and certainly not require much help or support.

 

IMHO, most people are walking wounded to some degree for any number of reasons. Some people do overcome their past and live graceful, successful, happy lives. I haven't met many.

 

I don't think any society can survive if its members cannot look beyond themselves for fulfillment. In another thread, I quoted from 'Tale of Two Cities'. The hero gives up his own life so that his friend may be happy. One upon a time, that sort of thing was considered noble. Now it would be called codependent. I don't think this is an improvement. If people don't aspire to noble values; if they can't find enough worth in others to make sacrifices for them, then we're all in trouble.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by moimeme

I don't think any society can survive if its members cannot look beyond themselves for fulfillment. In another thread, I quoted from 'Tale of Two Cities'. The hero gives up his own life so that his friend may be happy. One upon a time, that sort of thing was considered noble. Now it would be called codependent. I don't think this is an improvement. If people don't aspire to noble values; if they can't find enough worth in others to make sacrifices for them, then we're all in trouble.

 

This is great - I really love this passage and its a great illustration of how labeling and society can change or interpret a behavior.

 

When I was in high-school a million years ago I was taking a "marriage and family" class. One of the things the teacher read to us from a text book written by a [then] leading authority on marriage (sorry, I don't remember the name of the book or the author), was this statement for married people, or those contemplating marriage. It was to descirbe how to know if you are in love and how to make the marriage work.

 

Always give 100% of yourself to your spouse and expect nothing in return

 

That is how I was raised and what I saw in those around me. The quote was geared toward women originally and the word "husband" was changed to "spouse" later. But that is what we were TAUGHT in school and in our homes. By words and examples.

 

Can you see how that simple statement can be interpreted in so many thousands of ways? A woman being aboused might see it as having to give her whole will over and be submissive to the abuse. An independent woman might take offense and see it as a form of ownership or possession; or she might see it as only covering certain emotional aspects of the marriage but it has nothing to do with her job or earning potential or right to vote kind of thing. The way I saw it was that my opinions were second and all decisions were made by the husband. He should consider my opinions and feelings, but the final word was his. He was the Head of the Household. Look at our tax forms in the USA! I am the only one working, I support my family, but I cannot legally be called the Head of Household when doing our taxes. (My husband can't either because he's on disability)

 

Anyway, I love that passage. I told my friend that I would print off all the comments for her daughter today. She goes back to school next week and I'm not sure when her paper is actually due - her homework for the Christmas Holiday was to gather information in preparation for this paper, and/or begin to write it. I'm going to ask her for a copy of it when she's done. I'd like to see it.

[pinkroses]

of unconditional love, is that you love someone because of who they are, not because of something they have or because of certain expectations you have of them, or for anything you might get back in return. It means your love for them does not have any stipulations or exceptions. However, it doesn't mean you are willing to accept any form of ill treatment from the person. You can love the person and still say no and set boundaries for yourself.

 

Codependency is the "enabling" side of nature. One who finds it hard to let go of someone whom they feel needs their help and support. Or do to their own insecurity, they feel the need for someone's reinforcement, whether it be healthy or abusive. For example, a lot of spouses of alcoholics are codependent. They feel needed by the alcoholic and trapped in the cycle of support, and drama when they try to pull away, which brings them back, making excuses for the alcoholic, trying to keep the peace, etc.

 

I don't know how accurate I am on these topics, but I have read a lot of books on the subjects. There's nobility in loving and being there for someone against all odds, but I think a line has to be drawn if the object of your love is causing you harm (physical, emotional or psychological), or if the receiver is using your love as a crutch, and is unwilling to heal or become self reliant.