strip clubs, lying, private dances. ok or no?

[annieo]

Here's the story. My husband (while on a business trip with his boss a few months ago) visited a couple of strip clubs, and ended up having 3 table dances (he swears there was no lap dance). He did not tell me, in fact the way I found out was becasue a pack of matches ended up on the floor of our house, from the club. On a side note, this all occurred on the day I attended the funeral of a close friend (bad timing).

 

Realizing he was busted, he admited that he went to the club(s) but claimed nothing more happened than watching some peelers and drinking a few beers (which I would be cool with), but I had that feeling that he waas leaving something out of the story. Over the next 2 or 3 days (it was a weekend) after much begging, pleading and generally insane behavior on my part, got it out of him that he had had 3 table dances and had spent at least 20 minutes chatting with one of the girls (the prettiest, apparently) about various things including ME (and, of course, the fact that she was doing this stripping thing to get herself through college - how admirable! Did he think this would make me feel better?)

 

I still feel, months later, completely demeaned and distrustful of him. This all came up today because I made the mistake of reading an article in a men's magazine about men and fidelity and how only 32% of guys think that having a private dance constitutes cheating. It all came back (rage, disgust, mistrust) in a rush.

 

I must add that during the 3 days of hell, where he bit by bit told me the "truth" (I assume) he also admitted to going to strip clubs on 4 other occassions while travelling on business. He denies having personal dances on these occassions.Also, he says that he never had a lap dance, only a table dance (e.g., nobody grinding his clothed dick with her unclothed ass, just a girl in front of him wiggling and bending over).

 

Help! Am I right to still feel so pissed off? If I wasn't sharing a home with him (and kids) I would have dumped him when this **** hit the fan. I still love him, but everything has changed.

Please advise.

[CATENZA]

It is truely unbelieveable on how many threads there are with ur similar situation... Mine being "Pregnant and Husband gets Lapdance". It sort of confirms the 32% of men don't think its cheating.

 

My husband has been to SC's for bachlor parties which I was aware of and OK with. The lying is what disgusted me. It has been 3 months and I still can't get it out of my head. I am still so upset over it cause I feel I don't know my husband anymore. I am emotionally drained. The best advise I can give you is Time heals all... I'm not an emotional wreck as I was when it first happened but its something I can never forget and thats something I need to work on. You have everyright to feel the way you feel and noone is allowed to tell you otherwise.

 

Also, knowing to much will hurt you more. Stop the investigation! If you love and trust your husband, you should be able to believe everything he told you about the SC.

[Guest]

Ok here's my take - I'm female, and I like strip clubs. Before non-smoking came about in a lot of bars, I'd go to strip clubs more often than bars, because they were cleaner and smoke-free in this area, quieter you could hang out and talk, enjoy looking at the girls etc. I would love to go to a strip club with my husband. I'd even love to buy him a lap dance and would love it if he bought me one! The key is it's a shared experience, no secrets, no sneaking around.

 

HOWEVER

If my husband ever did what yours did I'd be fuming, and if there was nothing (house, kids etc) I'd leave the him. There is no excuse for lying or hiding things or sneaking around at all. I feel there is NO room for this in a relationship. So coming from someone that likes strip clubs and likes to watch strippers and would be happy to do so with my husband - I think what your husband did is absolutely wrong.

[rainfall]

It depends on what you are comfortable with. I know I would be extremely pissed if he even set foot inside a strip club.

[RF123]

Strip clubs, to me, are completely off limits when in a relationship. And my bf knew this day one. If you are in love with a woman, and intimate with her, there should be no need or want to go and look and pay for another naked woman when you have one at home waiting for you. I would be disgusted. you have every right to be pissed.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Strip clubs and stuff like that are "right" or "wrong" depending on how the couple feels about it mutually, and what the boundaries for that couple are.

 

Lying, however is wrong. No two ways about that.

 

I can understand why he would lie though even though I don't think he should have. He probably knew that you couldn't handle the truth, and that he would suffer dearly for being truthful with you about it.

 

He still shouldn't have lied though.

 

I'm curious about this - when you two had discussed it before in terms of setting boundaries, were you crystal clear that you felt that going to strip clubs was cheating?

[annieo]

Thanks for your replies, everyone.

In response to your question, Lucretzia, yes my husband and I have discussed this sort of thing many times before. I have made it clear (in no vague terms) that I didn't like the idea of him going to a SC (especially without me and out ot town) but if he did, I would want to be told promptly. Also, he knows that I have a TOTAL problem with the whole private dance/lap dance/sitting and chatting with strippers thing. If he doesn't want me to do it for another man, then he's got no business getting it done for him by another woman. He agreed that the SC scene was not something that was terribly important to him and he would be straight with me.

He and I have gone to strip clubs together in the past (like a few years ago) so I know what they're like (sleazy,bu I did find it kine of interesting, like I was behind enemy lines or something).

I've calmed down a bit today, but I have this feeling that this is going to keep cropping up. Sadly, all the promises and reassurance doesn't mean as much when someone has proven themselves to be a persistent liar.

 

 

PS The fact that he spent $50US for these dances, while we are pinching pennies around here, is like the icing on the crap cake.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I can understand your anger. He knew your position on it, knew the boundaries and stomped right over the line anyway. That is complete disrespect which is aggravated by the lying about it.

[Guest]

The lying is what disgusted me.

 

I mean this in all courtesy and respect:

 

I truly don't know what women expect when they say that lying disgusts them but than place their husbands in situations where if they told the truth they would face daunting, negative, consequences.

 

If you want the truth you have to create circumstances where telling it doesn't bring down the forces of a woman scorned into your husband's life.

 

I'd never expect my wife to tell the truth about going to a male review [and I have been a bouncer in such places, during such reviews, and I can tell the collective here that the things women do to those guys during their sets male customers would never even consider doing to female dancers] if she knew I was going to go into a judgemental melt-down that would call the entire state of our marriage into question. I'd expect her to lie to save our relationship from a non-threat and to keep her sanity safe from an assault by me [if I were the jealous type, which thank-goodness I am not].

 

If you want the truth you have to set the parameters to successfully petition it [and that works both ways].

[Guest]

The problem, as I see it, is there is a huge gap between what people say they do and what they really do.

 

There is another huge gap between what they say they would want for themselves and what they would allow for those they care about.

 

Every single modern scientific survey on the subject states that women cheat in relationships in numbers that are almost the equivalent of men.

 

Women and men, both, want to do what they want to do while limiting the ability of their partners to do the same.

 

The best definition of insanity I have bumped into is: The inconsistency of doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result.

 

Under that perspective it would seems the problem is we are all just a bit crazy.

[CATENZA]

I mean this in all courtesy and respect:

 

I truly don't know what women expect when they say that lying disgusts them but than place their husbands in situations where if they told the truth they would face daunting, negative, consequences.

 

If you want the truth you have to create circumstances where telling it doesn't bring down the forces of a woman scorned into your husband's life.

 

I'd never expect my wife to tell the truth about going to a male review [and I have been a bouncer in such places, during such reviews, and I can tell the collective here that the things women do to those guys during their sets male customers would never even consider doing to female dancers] if she knew I was going to go into a judgemental melt-down that would call the entire state of our marriage into question. I'd expect her to lie to save our relationship from a non-threat and to keep her sanity safe from an assault by me [if I were the jealous type, which thank-goodness I am not].

 

If you want the truth you have to set the parameters to successfully petition it [and that works both ways].

 

The way I see it is if you have the balls to go get them rubbed at a SC you should have the Balls to tell ur wife. Be a man face the consequences. If you have to hide it to avoid conflict then that should mean that what your doing is wrong. Its alot worse getting caught in a lie especially about that.

[LoveLace]

I am also one who would enjoy going to a SC with my boyfriend/husband...but only every once in a blue moon...if my boyfriend came right home and just said "yea, me and the buddies went to SC last night", I"d probably just ask, was it fun, blah blah blah. I don't even think I'd ask about a lap dance, etc. I'd be so glad that he was so honest about it, that I wouldn't even care about details.

 

But if it practically became a routine, I'd get aggravated. Honesty is great but if he starts telling me he's doing this a lot no matter who it's with, and it hasn't been with me, I'd be questioning his behavior. I wouldn't wonder about cheating so much as I might wonder about his interest in me. Like, why does he feel that he has to keep visiting these hot dancer chicks? I really don't think I'd consider it cheating unless I had knowledge of him getting her number, or communicating with her in any way outside of the stage-audience atmosphere. I wouldn't even say a private dance is cheating, unless of course there's more than dancing going on. But the thing is, you could never really know the truth about a private dance because if it's just them 2 in a room, he could have sex with her and no one would ever have to know or find out.

 

So it's a contraversial subject. If I was you, I'd be mad also. Because the way he's been going about it (secretly on business trips where your not there to know) is annoying all in itself.

[annieo]

"I truly don't know what women expect when they say that lying disgusts them but than place their husbands in situations where if they told the truth they would face daunting, negative, consequences.

 

If you want the truth you have to create circumstances where telling it doesn't bring down the forces of a woman scorned into your husband's life."

 

In reply to this, I would like to say that I would have been over this in about 30 minutes if my husband had just told me the truth, which I would have previously expected him to do. I didn't create the circumstances, he did wih his outright, in my face, eye to eye lying. He even said to me at one point, "Do you want me to make stuff up?!" in a loud angry voice when I was asking him to please tell me the truth (because I knew deep in my gut that there was more to the story. Give me a break! If he didn't want a woman's scorn (versus her temporary annoyance) he shouldn't have bull****ted me. Does knowing that your wife WON'T go ballistic (because, perhaps, she has low self-esteem and is willing to let her husband violate previously established boundaries due to fear of losing or upsetting him) mean you have permission to go out and do whatever the hell you want to? Your message is self-serving and illogical.

To Catenza and Lovelace, thanks for the perspective. It's nice to know that I'm not the only person who thinks lying is crappy thing to do. I was beginning to wonder.

On a side note, my husband and I have communicated by e-mail about 20 times today about this. Man, this bridge building thing is work. I do love him, but the trust thing has had a few key foundation stones blown out, so I guess/hope time is the answer. I've considered revenge, but I am too grown up to bother. Plus, I have no interest in male dancers. Not my type. So I guess I just have to wait this one out. But I refuse to deny what I'm feeling all the time to make things pleasant for him.

[CATENZA]

 

For me it has been 3 months and I am no longer pregnant.. Had the baby about a week ago. I thought all i was feeling about my situation was due to the pregnancy, but its not. I am still so PISSED OFF and totally disgusted with my husband. I can't even picture us intimate anymore and it hurts alot. My Husband is trying really hard but my attitude towards him has changed and he see's it. Last night I even had a dream that he left me and I wasn't sad about it. I feel the same way, "I refuse to deny what I feel all the time to make things pleasant for him". This is not done on purpose!

[annieo]

Catenza, I was MORE whacked on hormonal ups and downs in the first few weeks after my babies were born than before. You are probably not done with that roller coaster ride just yet. I must say that I am grateful that I didn't have to go through all of the trials of the last few months while pregnant or nursing a baby - you've got your hands full. But realize that some of the extremes you are feeling could definitely have to do with your body and the fact that you have just gone through a life-changing event.

And I understand your anger. For me, it tends to come in waves (which, fortunately, are not as frequent as they were initially). In between, I feel basically ok. If this is the case for you, let it out when you are feeling it and concentrate on taking care of you and your baby on the good days. The first few weeks and months with your child are amazing and irreplacable. Don't let your husband's obviously jackassed behavior (which it sounds like he is sorry for) ruin this time for you and the kid. I say this as the mother of a 10 and 12 year old and trust me, the time flies.

Go kiss your baby and make today a day of peace. You deserve it.

[CATENZA]

Catenza, I was MORE whacked on hormonal ups and downs in the first few weeks after my babies were born than before. You are probably not done with that roller coaster ride just yet. I must say that I am grateful that I didn't have to go through all of the trials of the last few months while pregnant or nursing a baby - you've got your hands full. But realize that some of the extremes you are feeling could definitely have to do with your body and the fact that you have just gone through a life-changing event.

And I understand your anger. For me, it tends to come in waves (which, fortunately, are not as frequent as they were initially). In between, I feel basically ok. If this is the case for you, let it out when you are feeling it and concentrate on taking care of you and your baby on the good days. The first few weeks and months with your child are amazing and irreplacable. Don't let your husband's obviously jackassed behavior (which it sounds like he is sorry for) ruin this time for you and the kid. I say this as the mother of a 10 and 12 year old and trust me, the time flies.

Go kiss your baby and make today a day of peace. You deserve it.

 

Thank you Annieo, believe me, my husbands stupidity would never come between the bond and love of my new baby. I also hope you are right about hormonal ups and downs after the pregnancy. I don't want to feel this way and sometimes I feel bad for my husband.

 

and other times I hate him!

[annieo]

Post-delivery hormonal weirdness is the rule, not the exception. As for sometimes hating your husband, welcome to the club. It sucks to have this sort of thing dumped in your lap - not your fault, not your choice.

Speaking as a non-pregnant, non-nursing a baby woman, I'm pissed off, too and it's not my hormones talking! But I just think that if your emotions seem particularily strong by your normal standards, it's could probably be baby related. And it does pass (although if you feel REALLY depressed for an extended period, see your doctor).

I sound like an old mother hen, giving our advice. I must be having an upbeat day.

[CATENZA]

Annieo, before i gave birth I was scared that I was going to get post Pardem Depression but i refuse to let it get to me.

 

Also, i relized that this board doesn't help. So many different opinions. Who thinks the LYING is wrong and who doesn't, who thinks the LAPDANCE was wrong and who doesn't. ughhhh.. I mean, my husband didn't put up a fight when I first flipped out, which was the same night. He admitted he was wrong about everything and feels really bad he hurt me. In the past 3 months he became father/husband of the year. strangly, It makes it harder for me to forgive him.

[VirtualInsanity]

For me it has been 3 months and I am no longer pregnant.. Had the baby about a week ago. I thought all i was feeling about my situation was due to the pregnancy, but its not. I am still so PISSED OFF and totally disgusted with my husband. I can't even picture us intimate anymore and it hurts alot. My Husband is trying really hard but my attitude towards him has changed and he see's it. Last night I even had a dream that he left me and I wasn't sad about it. I feel the same way, "I refuse to deny what I feel all the time to make things pleasant for him". This is not done on purpose!

 

Congrats. How exciting.

 

Hmm....how about counseling? Both talking about it could be good.

[CATENZA]

I don't think he needs counseling. It was discussed. My husband knows he messed up big time at the wrong time and is truely sorry. I'm the one who needs to decide what to do now and how to handle it and/or get over it.

[VirtualInsanity]

I don't think he needs counseling. It was discussed. My husband knows he messed up big time at the wrong time and is truely sorry. I'm the one who needs to decide what to do now and how to handle it and/or get over it.

Oh okay, glad it was discussed.

 

How about u? Sound like your going back & forth.

[CATENZA]

Oh okay, glad it was discussed.

 

How about u? Sound like your going back & forth.

 

I am going back and forth and I'm driving myself crazy. I can't put it all behind me because thats not the type of person I am. I remember everything that everyone has ever done to me! I don't hold grudges but I never forget and that makes me keep my guard up. But to be like that with my husband for the rest of our lives is too much work/stress for me. I need another solution!

[Miss Jane]

"I truly don't know what women expect when they say that lying disgusts them but than place their husbands in situations where if they told the truth they would face daunting, negative, consequences.

 

I've been going through this for months and have posted on various threads. I'm surprised at how many couples have this situation. My husband didn't tell me about his lapdance and I found out when one of his buddies "slipped" the info. Finding out several months after it happened has driven me crazy. Why he was lying about it only makes me more suspicious. Along with it being outright disrespectful to both me and our 22 year marriage. My husband has been yelling at me if it comes up--he won't even talk to me about it--he just gets mad and defensive. Initially, he told me when he got into the private booth with the stripper, he thought to himself--oh, ****(my name)'s wouldn't like this. Probably while her boobs were in his face! He had a choice and to me made a very poor decision. He uses the excuse that all the other guys were doing it--his 3 buddies--so why not. He says it's okay because there is no "intent" to have sex with her. I was even more enraged when I found out the stripper is a high school girl. This happened last July so she must be on the older side for her grade--but high school? My husband just turned 50 and one of our daughter's is 18. It just disgusts me so much I want to puke! I hope he thought sexually fantasizing ******* a high school girl was worth it.

 

Can you tell I'm still angry?! And what does this do to our intimacy? I said something about the strippers being young because they were in a Hustler Barely Legal Club--and he argued and argued that they aren't really that young--that it is just bull**** that the club sells to attract customers. His best friend had spent time chitchatting with this "hot" blond and she told him she was in high school. My husband knew she was in high school and still bothered to fight with me about it that there was no way she was that young--actually, I found out on a club blog. Besides, my husband says no one wants to look at 40 year old strippers. I guess that's why we usually just to it in the dark, under the covers---SOOOOO SAD! And I'm hot for my age--really, I am.

 

On one post I read that no matter how good looking or etc, etc, a woman is--if you have this sort of a person as a SO--they just are looking for variety--porn movies, magazines, etc. Too bad these men can't just embrace their own loving SO's. Maybe I sound old fashioned, but when I got married almost 23 years ago, I stopped looking. I didn't need to because I loved my husband and knew that he was all mine. Guess he doesn't feel the same way.

[rtHawk]

Catenza!

congratulations with the new baby! the love there will certainly bring much joy into your days.

Miss Jane and Catenza. I am really sorry to read about these very blantant acts of hurt upon you as partners, loves and wives. it is soooo wrong!

My guy had been to strip clubs but I believe hadn't in along time and did not get a lap dance. He has any upcoming tript to chicago and do you know what i am worrying about... stripclubs and lapdances....

I have been cheated on him once and it has taken much to recover fromt that.

I feel I want to ask him not to go, but if Ido, I know he won't be honest and tell me he did. He was honest with me about them in the past, but things have changed and trust is not the same. I want to be smart about how I make the request but don't know how to.

 

anyway, I am one of the same as you Jane.... committed completely. don't even care to look ever.

all this crap makes me, a 220% heterosexual woman, want to become a lesbian!

[Miss Jane]

Catenza!

congratulations with the new baby! the love there will certainly bring much joy into your days.

Miss Jane and Catenza. I am really sorry to read about these very blantant acts of hurt upon you as partners, loves and wives. it is soooo wrong!

My guy had been to strip clubs but I believe hadn't in along time and did not get a lap dance. He has any upcoming tript to chicago and do you know what i am worrying about... stripclubs and lapdances....

I have been cheated on him once and it has taken much to recover fromt that.

I feel I want to ask him not to go, but if Ido, I know he won't be honest and tell me he did. He was honest with me about them in the past, but things have changed and trust is not the same. I want to be smart about how I make the request but don't know how to.

 

anyway, I am one of the same as you Jane.... committed completely. don't even care to look ever.

all this crap makes me, a 220% heterosexual woman, want to become a lesbian!

 

Guys are into that too--they love the girl on girl action at the clubs. A woman could probably please a woman more then a man could anyways. I can understand why some women are or become gay.

 

An added story. One of the guys my husband was with the night they went to a strip club goes to strip clubs while on business trips. He told my husband a story about one time when one of the guys he was with had sex with the stripper, decided that he "loved" her and wanted to bring her home--and he had a wife and kids. It happens. And I'm talking about doctors, lawyers, and dentists.

 

Catenza--Congrats!! You still sound angry--what can we do? I think we should start our own club of SO's who feel cheated on and come up with something that would piss off our husbands because I'm thinking that until I I have some way of getting back at him and making him hurt as bad as I do, he will never understand or care. He knows he hurt me, but isn't sorry because he thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did--"all the guys were doing it and their wives don't care". The being at home being "good little wives" while our husbands are out stroking their male egos and soliciting sex acts from other women is totally unacceptable!!!