Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 10, 2007 Author Posted April 10, 2007 Try and stay focused on the boundaries that you have set for yourself. YOU told yourself that you were ONLY going to email her about times and dates regarding picking the children up. Try and stick to this. Dont get into emotional babble with her, stay "business llike", "professional", "calm" and most importantly "INDIFFERENT". Dont let her see a pinch of emotion from you at the moment. Throwing things up like that when you replied to her email will give her an opening to start digging into your emotions and pulling on your heart strings again. Just remember, the less you show her of you, the MORE you will see about her, which will work in your favour in the long run Work in my favor how though? Knowing the way she is, and that she can easily pretend that everything is fine, I don't want to play into that with her by letting her comfort herself with feelings like "he'll move on soon." The only aspiration I have for this woman anymore is that she'll get some much-needed psychological help. So if being indifferent 100% of the time will help that happen, then that's what I'll do. Right now I'm being indifferent much of the time, but to me that lets her continue her fantasy that everything's OK and she can be happy with the new guy.
Missy27 Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 Work in my favor how though? Knowing the way she is, and that she can easily pretend that everything is fine, I don't want to play into that with her by letting her comfort herself with feelings like "he'll move on soon." Well, by showing her as little as possible of your emotions towards her and looking into and taking note of how she is behaving and what she is saying may work in your favour in respect to divorce proceedings if they begin, and getting full custody of your son etc. Kind of like the more you have on her and the less she has on you, the better.
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 10, 2007 Author Posted April 10, 2007 I see. Well at this point the divorce is going to be a DIY thing, and I now have her agreeing in writing to the custody agreement. But I do see your point...I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to explain my feelings to her anymore. She's well aware of how I feel at this point. The exchange I mentioned earlier was part of the whole custody discussion, so it started out all-business, but I took exception to that statement and felt I should point it out to her.
Missy27 Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 I see. Well at this point the divorce is going to be a DIY thing, and I now have her agreeing in writing to the custody agreement. But I do see your point...I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to explain my feelings to her anymore. She's well aware of how I feel at this point. The exchange I mentioned earlier was part of the whole custody discussion, so it started out all-business, but I took exception to that statement and felt I should point it out to her I understand. Under the circumstances I think that you are handling this exceptionally well. Especially since this is still a fresh wound. It's not as if the "divorce talk" has been going on for some time now, its all still very raw. You are IMO VERY lucky that she has agreed to your having full access to your son, although I find it a little strange that a mother would consent to custody so effortlessly. I'm not in any way suggesting that he should be with her over you, it just makes me a little warey as to her motives. Its probably an attempt to ease her own consience to a point. If she gives you full access to your son, in her mind it probably soothes her guilt about having an affair Like you said earlier, this girl really does need some professional help IMHO.
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 10, 2007 Author Posted April 10, 2007 I understand. Under the circumstances I think that you are handling this exceptionally well. Especially since this is still a fresh wound. It's not as if the "divorce talk" has been going on for some time now, its all still very raw. You are IMO VERY lucky that she has agreed to your having full access to your son, although I find it a little strange that a mother would consent to custody so effortlessly. I'm not in any way suggesting that he should be with her over you, it just makes me a little warey as to her motives. Its probably an attempt to ease her own consience to a point. If she gives you full access to your son, in her mind it probably soothes her guilt about having an affair Like you said earlier, this girl really does need some professional help IMHO. Believe me, you're not the only one to point out how strange it is for a woman to give up so much time with her own child. There's also a chance that when my stepson's father gets back next week, he will push for a similar agreement with her. With her talk of needing to hit rock bottom with her depression, I would imagine that if she does lose all this time with her kids, that rock bottom may come when the relationship with the OM falls apart. It's hard for me to imagine that a married but separated guy will want to jump right in with a woman going through her own divorce that has two kids from two different men and a failed marriage at 28. When I was 24 and considering a LTR with her, I know it was a BIG deal that she had a young child. I carefully considered if I would be willing to give my all to both her and him, and decided that I had it in me to do that and stick around for the long haul. In the end I knew I had what it takes. The OM will essentially be in that same position but doubled, and given the fact that I'm resistant to him having ANY involvement with my son at this point, I just don't see how he'll want to stick around (not to mention that things have moved so quickly with them). In any event, thanks to the custody agreement we have, if he does stick around he'll have to get a background check and sit down face to face with me...something I doubt he'll have the courage to do.
Missy27 Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 Believe me, you're not the only one to point out how strange it is for a woman to give up so much time with her own child. There's also a chance that when my stepson's father gets back next week, he will push for a similar agreement with her. With her talk of needing to hit rock bottom with her depression, I would imagine that if she does lose all this time with her kids, that rock bottom may come when the relationship with the OM falls apart. Spot on She has absolutely NO IDEA of what lays ahead of her. We ALL have to face our demons at some point or another and she's going to have to have one HELL of an exorcism soon. This OM is her FIX at the moment, she is 100% hooked on him, however much she tries to play it down, she's addicted. Nothing else matters as much as OM at the moment cause all those little brain chemicals are surging through her body telling her that this is euphoria to its maximum The children wont even be her top priority at the moment. She's setting herself up for one big fall. It's hard for me to imagine that a married but separated guy will want to jump right in with a woman going through her own divorce that has two kids from two different men and a failed marriage at 28. When I was 24 and considering a LTR with her, I know it was a BIG deal that she had a young child. I carefully considered if I would be willing to give my all to both her and him, and decided that I had it in me to do that and stick around for the long haul. In the end I knew I had what it takes. Thats the point, he doesn't want to jump in with her. He's using her to satisfy his own needs and in the process is having a good go at manipulating her into thinking that he wants to be with her. This is text book MM behaviour. I can almost predict what the outcome of this is going to be. And yes, when you involve yourself with someone who already has children, you HAVE to understand that they come as a package and I have ultimate respect for you because I KNOW how hard it is to adapt to this. The OM will essentially be in that same position but doubled, and given the fact that I'm resistant to him having ANY involvement with my son at this point, I just don't see how he'll want to stick around (not to mention that things have moved so quickly with them). In any event, thanks to the custody agreement we have, if he does stick around he'll have to get a background check and sit down face to face with me...something I doubt he'll have the courage to do I have my reservations as to whether it will even get THIS far. I seriously doubt that OM will stick around long enough to be in that situation. Your STBXW has it in her head that her and OM are going to elope together, holding hands, skipping into the sunset. She got one hell of a smack round the chops coming because that my friend is one highly unlikely scenario. Potentially, she could loose BOTH her children, you, her OM, her home, her friends, her family - everything that you two have worked for for the last x years. THATS when reality strikes.
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 Missy thank you for all your replies. You're awesome. Hell, you're all awesome. I'm glad I found this place:) I'm really close to getting to that stage of indifference. I have the boys the next three nights, and I just got a call that my stepson's flag football starts tomorrow. My first instinct was to write her an email saying, "Eli has flag football tomorrow. Of course I will take him because I am a good father and stepfather. Good luck finding that with someone else." I stopped myself though. I'm not going to do that anymore. She should already know this anyway. I will simply do what I do that makes me such a good guy, and a good dad, and a good step-dad, and let her realize on her own what she has lost. It's kinda weird in a way...I feel like I'm really close to just saying "whatever" when it comes to her. I'm finally starting to get it.
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 OK, well the flag football thing aside, I just found out a couple other things from my stepson that made me have to say something to her. First off, the kid's lactose intolerant and needs a daily pill to deal with it. She hasn't been giving it to him when he's with her. Then, because she took his dresser and clothes, she said that she would send clothes with him when he's over here. She didn't do that. I have no clothes here for the poor kid and he's got to go to school in the morning. Here's what I sent her: I'm trying to be a patient person here, but I really feel like you are not taking things very seriously right now when it comes to the kids. You didn't send any clothes for Eli to wear to school in the morning. You haven't given him his lactose pills. You didn't tell me he had flag football tomorrow. I don't mind doing these things because I love him, but you are his mother for Pete's sake. Get your head on straight.I think that gets the point across without me sounding needy or trying to say "see what you're losing."
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 So she emailed back and admitted that she's screwed up and that she doesn't have her head on straight. She also said that she has both a doctor's appt. and counseling this week. So I guess that's a step in the right direction for her.
whichwayisup Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Encourage her to fix herself and get her head back on straight. Go from there. Maybe reality is kicking in slowly inside her.......
Missy27 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 I stopped myself though. I'm not going to do that anymore. She should already know this anyway. I will simply do what I do that makes me such a good guy, and a good dad, and a good step-dad, and let her realize on her own what she has lost. It's kinda weird in a way...I feel like I'm really close to just saying "whatever" when it comes to her. I'm finally starting to get it. Good for you - this is what makes you who you are and what makes her not good enough for you
Missy27 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 OK, well the flag football thing aside, I just found out a couple other things from my stepson that made me have to say something to her. First off, the kid's lactose intolerant and needs a daily pill to deal with it. She hasn't been giving it to him when he's with her. Then, because she took his dresser and clothes, she said that she would send clothes with him when he's over here. She didn't do that. I have no clothes here for the poor kid and he's got to go to school in the morning. Here's what I sent her: I think that gets the point across without me sounding needy or trying to say "see what you're losing." Classic behavior from someone who is so tangled up in the "fantasy bubble" of an affair. Like I said before, the kids will be at the bottom of her list of priorities at the moment. You will struggle to get through to her because she's so wrapped up with OM.
Missy27 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 So she emailed back and admitted that she's screwed up and that she doesn't have her head on straight. She also said that she has both a doctor's appt. and counseling this week. So I guess that's a step in the right direction for her Lets hope this is true. I think she'd pretty much say ANYTHING at the moment to keep you off her case as far as the kids are concerned. Remember, she doesn't want to look like the bad one in all of this
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 Lets hope this is true. I think she'd pretty much say ANYTHING at the moment to keep you off her case as far as the kids are concerned. Remember, she doesn't want to look like the bad one in all of this Perhaps, but this has all been so bizarre from the start that I can't help but arrive at the conclusion that it's all a result of her depression. I'm not going to lie, there is a small part of me still that would hope meds and counseling will snap her out of this and say, "What the hell have I done?" It's tough at this point because I really feel as if I'm ready to move on and stay indifferent to her, but now that she's seeking help, do I stay that route until she comes around, or do I act supportive like wwiu says? I'm very confused this morning...
Missy27 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Well..... I suppose it comes back down to when her reality actually does kick in, and whilst she still has contact with OM, all the counselling and medication in the world may not be enough....Also, would you really WANT to be with her again, after all she has put you through ? I would carry on as you have been. Ride it out for a while and see what happens. At the end of the day, you can't force it, SHE has to see it before YOU can do anything.
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 Well..... I suppose it comes back down to when her reality actually does kick in, and whilst she still has contact with OM, all the counselling and medication in the world may not be enough....Also, would you really WANT to be with her again, after all she has put you through ? I would carry on as you have been. Ride it out for a while and see what happens. At the end of the day, you can't force it, SHE has to see it before YOU can do anything. Breaking it off with OM is a must if there's going to be any chance for us. I told her that from day 1, and her lack of willingness to do that is why we are where we are today. I also have felt though that the OM is her 'medication' right now for her depression. This is based on things that she's said, particularly when I asked her point blank why she is doing this to me and our family, and she gave me a blank look and said, "I don't know." It's not like she said, "I'm in love with him" or "He's got a bigger d**k" or "You've become an a**hole." Just "I don't know." So if she was to come to that same realization perhaps I would consider reconciling. But I doubt she will, so as you say I will ride it out as it is for now.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 It's tough at this point because I really feel as if I'm ready to move on and stay indifferent to her, but now that she's seeking help, do I stay that route until she comes around, or do I act supportive like wwiu says? I'm very confused this morning... You don't have to be an a*hole... and you shouldn't be. BUT... you are probably the 'last man on earth' who can HELP your WW. Internal changes have to come from within. She has to CHOOSE to seek wellness. You can't choose it for her, and you can't do the WORK she'll be required to do even if she does somehow manage to select healing. This is just my personal opinion, but I think mental health issues are similar to substance abuse issues in alot of ways. The patient MUST be proactive in her own treatment plan. If she's not, the do-gooders around her are subject to falling into an enabling patterns. If you ask me, it's better to move on with your own life... and let her catch up when (and if) she can.
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 Thanks LJ and Missy. Great advice.
Gunny376 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 You don't have to be an a*hole... and you shouldn't be. BUT... you are probably the 'last man on earth' who can HELP your WW. Internal changes have to come from within. She has to CHOOSE to seek wellness. You can't choose it for her, and you can't do the WORK she'll be required to do even if she does somehow manage to select healing. This is just my personal opinion, but I think mental health issues are similar to substance abuse issues in alot of ways. The patient MUST be proactive in her own treatment plan. If she's not, the do-gooders around her are subject to falling into an enabling patterns. If you ask me, it's better to move on with your own life... and let her catch up when (and if) she can. Spot on LJ! Spot on! I don't know what brand of coffee you drink ~ but you need to clue us in? You seem extra sharp this morning ~ and we all could use a cup of that WTFU!
Ladyjane14 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Spot on LJ! Spot on! I don't know what brand of coffee you drink ~ but you need to clue us in? You seem extra sharp this morning ~ and we all could use a cup of that WTFU! I don't know about all that... but if I have one more cup, I think I'm gonna be serving up some STFU!!! (I've grown absurdly impatient with a thread in the Infidelity section today. ) I guess it's all for the best that I need to get out of here for awhile and get some work done. I'm gonna have to saddle up and ride hard if I'm going to get my 'to-do' list accomplished as it is!
whichwayisup Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 The wife you knew before isn't the woman infront of you now. Between the depression and her feelings for the OM, her thought pattern is different and she's not thinking clearly at all. She's enjoying the fantasy and living in a bubble...Until that bubble bursts and she actually suffers consquences and FEELS it, nothing will actually change. The choice is yours right now. Throw in the towel and walk away, or quietly go about your life, and wait to see how she is in the near future. She has to hit her rockbottom before she changes and does anything to better herself, the situation and your marriage.
whichwayisup Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Another thing, google depression fallout, there's alot of helpful info on depressed spouses... Question is, which happened first? The depression or the OM?
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 Another thing, google depression fallout, there's alot of helpful info on depressed spouses... Question is, which happened first? The depression or the OM? I believe she's been depressed for quite some time; I know her self esteem has been very low for a long time despite me showing her and telling her how beautiful she is and how much I loved her (I'd get the standard "You're my husband, you have to say those things" response). The OM has only been in the past couple months...I don't know how long exactly, but she had her 'chance meeting' with him sometime after Valentine's Day.
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 I'm gonna have to saddle up and ride hard
Author hurting_in_nw Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 I wish the private messaging on this forum was enabled. Since it's not, I'll post this here to get some opinions. I want to let her know that she's doing the right thing, but keep my distance at the same time. Or maybe I should do nothing at all. Here's what I was going to send her: I am glad to hear that you are doing this. As I said I can't help but feel that all of this has been so bizarre and out of character that I can only find solace in thinking that it is a result of something bigger than you. Please understand though that as long as this other person is in the picture I will have to continue being distant from you and unable to offer you my help. I know I have said many awful, terrible things to you out of anger, but the root of that anger has been your resistance to looking into the reasons why you have done what you have done. Good luck on your journey. Thoughts?
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