Is it really over? (VERY long)

[hurting_in_nw]

Hi all--

Been lurking for a little bit, unsure of what to post exactly. But tonight there was a sea change, so I thought I'd finally tell my story.

 

I met my wife almost 8 years ago...we've been married for almost 5 now. Two kids--and 8 year old from her previous relationship and a 4 year old we have together. While things were not perfect, mainly due to us succumbing to the daily stresses of life, I never had the impression that there was anything fundamentally wrong in our relationship. We saved money each month, invested, retirement plans, college accounts for the kids, family vacations, laughed together...a life that most would envy. I have always put my wife and family before everything. I have never cheated, never had a drug, alcohol, or gambling problem, never been violent...none of the things that you think break up marriages.

 

A few weeks ago we were having an argument about some stupid thing or another, and she blurts out "I'm thinking of leaving." I was shocked. As I said, our household had definitely become more stressful over the past couple of years due to kids, new careers, etc., but divorce? It was completely out of left field. I spend that evening grovelling and blaming myself, sobbing, asking what I did wrong...all that stuff.

 

I decided right then to make a change, and to start addressing what I felt were the problems in our life--that she was stressed because of too much housework...stuff like that. My wife has been prone to bouts of depression before, mostly due to her job, so I though maybe this was just a rough patch, and that we would work through it. As the next few days went on, things seemed to get better...she appreciated the extra work I was doing to keep the house clean, and I encouraged her to head to the city for a couple of days of rest and relaxation. The night before she left we had a wonderful night together--a bottle of wine, massage, lovemaking. I felt that we were heading in the right direction, and that her sabbatical would only make it better.

 

When she returned two days later, she was a mess. She told me that she got 30 miles away and just broke down, dreading coming back. Once again I was shocked and confused again. I spoke with a good friend, who agreed that it just seemed so odd...like something a young 20something would do with her college boyfriend...not the act of a woman approaching 30 with two kids, a good husband, a solid career and a good life. He asked me if I had thought that there may be someone else. I had asked her the first night, and she assured me there wasn't, and I took her word.

 

But my friend's point stuck with me, and the next morning I confronted her, telling her that none of this made sense and that I thought she was lying. She finally admitted that she had indeed met somebody a few weeks earlier, and had "strong feelings" for him. She told me that the relationship had only gone as far as making out, and assured me that was the extent of it. Of course, at this point I didn't know what to believe, but I was very hurt nonetheless. I had the standard reaction of anger, cursing, calling her names, telling her it was over, etc. I then spoke with my brother, who told me that I had to relax, take a deep breath, and think about my children before I simply walked away. His advice was that I would regret it later in life if I didn't try to address the problems and see if my marriage could be saved. He advised me to go back home, tell her I wanted to work on things, but that the first thing she should do is pick up the phone and end this other relationship.

 

She was not interested in doing this. She went on about needing "closure" for the relationship and that she couldn't promise me she could do it. Talk about insult to injury. Despite this, I persisted in telling her that we should go to counseling, etc. I told her that whether or not she wanted to go, I was going to schedule an appointment because I want to deal with the issues this has brought up in me--I know that one day I may find someone else and I don't want to have a lot of baggage from this relationship if it didn't work out.

 

Her persistence in telling me she couldn't just break it off with this other guy kept making me angrier, until the other night when I finally snapped and spent a good 40 minutes verbally attacking her, saying the worst things I could possibly think of in my anger. She left shaken up, saying that she was scared of me and the look I had in my eyes. I suppose that was my goal--at this point I was beginning to realize that my wife had some real problems when it came to dealing with her deep emotions. She tends to keep things nice and calm on the surface and doesn't deal with what's underneath. As unproductive as it was, it was my way of trying to snap her out of this depression and get her to recognize that she needs some help, whether or not she decides to stay with me.

 

The next night I apologized to her, letting her know that what I said was out of anger and that I would never hurt her. In fact, I told her that if anything I have realized just how much I love her, given the effort I was making to get us into counseling and get to the root of what caused her to fall out of love with me and end up cheating. She accepted my apology. Granted, I was still holding on to hope that she would realize the mistake she was making and want to reconcile, but my hope waned each day. We went to a counseling session yesterday, and it was OK, but it was just the first session and I understand that the counselor needs to get familiar with our situation and who we are. Again though, my wife made it clear that she wasn't ready to end this other relationship, and that her goal for counseling was to simply end our marriage in a friendlier way than what it was heading for. Again, a slap in the face given the effort I was putting forth to get us talking about what went wrong.

 

I didn't want to let my anger consume me, but I realized that if we split, and she continued with this other person, it would be hard for me to heal. I can't bear the thought of this person, who has ripped my family apart, taking care of my children, being intimate with my wife, etc. The counselor pointed out to my wife that while she had been effectively ending our relationship for a long time in her own mind, to me everything seemed fine until she dropped this bomb on me, so she should understand that it's a lot for me to process in a couple of days. She understood this, but still seemed intent on ending the marriage.

 

I gave it one last chance today...I let it all out in a long email exchange we had, and told her as best as I could that I still love her and still want to help her as long as she's my wife, but when I got home the internet history showed she had been researching "Do it Yourself" divorce books. Again I called my brother, who told me to relax, and that this would take a long before things reached a stage of finality. He told me to keep up the counseling, ask her to leave the house (which she had been doing when I would get home from work). Tonight, I emailed her at work to get our account info and passwords for our bank/credit accounts, and she called me back.

 

We ended up talking for an hour and a half, and we seem to have come to an agreement. I had told her that it would be impossible for me to heal if I was still in this same small town with her and her new boyfriend, and that I questioned her judgement as far as who this person was and my displeasure with the thought of this person being a caretaker for my son. She agreed to give me custody of him so that he and I could leave together so I could get away from all of this and start the healing process. I told her I would like that in writing. It seems that through all of this her goal has been to end the marriage, but do it with as little strife as possible. I finally gave in since she agreed to let me have our son. She also said that she will continue counseling, and that she agrees with me that she has a lot of issues that need to be addresses. She said she would do more couples sessions if that's what the counselor thought was best.

 

We spoke for quite some time, and I let her know how I hope one day she will appreciate how hard I tried despite the hurt I have endured. She doesn't seem to have any plan for what to do when we split--she said she may continue the other relationship but she's not sure. She told the counselor that she wasn't out looking for someone else, that it was just a chance meeting. The funny thing to me is that this other guy is married, but separated. Doesn't sound like there's much potential there. I pointed out just how many lives are being affected by her decision, and she understands that, but wishes to move forward anyway. I feel like I have done all I can to save this, but that she just doesn't care anymore. She has told me that she feels she and I "lost it" quite some time ago...I guess what hurts me most is that I never got a chance to do something about it when I could. And I would have done anything, believe me.

 

This is just horrible. My boys will be split up, I will most likely move to another place, my relationships with her family are ruined, our mutual friends/families we care about and have shared many good times with...so many lives affected by this. My wife has always been a selfish person, but I never realized just how selfish until this. It's beyond my worst nightmare that this is happening, but I guess I'm facing the reality of it now, and as long as I can have my son i think i will be OK eventually, with counseling of course. I am losing my best friend, my family, and all we have worked for in the last seven years. It is so sad and seems so senseless, but I feel powerless in this. I feel like this is what she has decided upon, and doesn't feel that there is any hope she will ever rediscover her feeling for me. Maybe things will change with further counseling, but she is ready to start getting the divorce ball rolling.

 

I was in shock for a while over the affair...now I feel a different sort of shock in facing the end of this marriage. Should I be facing that now, or is my brother correct in saying that this is still in the early stages, and that I shouldn't write the ending when it's still the first chapter? I want to hold on to hope, but I also know that I've done all I can to change her mind, and she simply seems to not want to. I felt tonight that I should just let her go because her decision is made. Is that the right thing to do? I take my marriage commitment very seriously, and I do not want this to end. Despite the affair and her not wanting to end that relationship...I still want to try. But now that she's said she would let me have my son and have the distance I need to move on, I wonder if that's it?

 

I'm so confused and hurt by all of this. It's just so sad and seems so senseless to me, but it's what she wants. Is it true that if you really love someone you have to set them free?

[quiet1one1]

Welcome to world of the disposable marriage - the

"It's All About Me" society. Sorry to hear your story. Lives today are like books, they're exciting as you're reading them for the first time but then they're put on the shelf in favor of a new book. The first book is still exciting - if you read it again, you will almost always enjoy it again, differently. But reading it again takes EFFORT. Sure parts will be boring, but if your patient and persistent you will find new things that interest or thrill you. But why WORK when its easier to get a new book where the excitement starts at page ONE? There are so many real-life analogies it makes me sick....tv channels, internet surfing, cars, radio stations, homes, etc. "I'm bored with this, what's next?" Life is not a video game.

 

So the first book still sits on the shelf...can you get your W to re-open it?

 

As you know, there is almost always another person involved. You know, so while it pains you greatly, in the end it's much better than a lot of us that think there "may" be another person but don't know for sure and maybe never will. Unfortunately there are a lot of men out there waiting like vultures for these confused women to come along. The men feed them a little drug called euphoria that can't easily be had at home anymore because the women HAVE CHOSEN (with their H) their go-go lives that push all that fun-love stuff to the back and BOOM, the women are addicted. The affair almost always topples badly and the W will be left in a mess. To top that off? ... she'll blame you for that too. Oh, and you'll accept the blame, go to a counselor, promise to change, and it won't do a damn thing but beat YOU down further.

 

Can your M be saved? Sure. Is it likely, no. Those are the facts. Your counselor made a good point that your W was "effectively ending our relationship for a long time in her own mind". Unfortunately, that's probably true. Though I'm thinking though that "a long time" in an almost-30's woman's mind is probably 3 months?! I think it's also true that many spouses (W) agree to counseling just because it's a safer place to end things. You will be led to say things that "can and will be used against you" so try to stay away from that game.

 

Comparing my situation to yours, I would have much rather found out when I was younger that now, mid-40's and married 23 years.

My advice to you is be strong. Don't scream, beg, plead, try to reason with her, or manipulate. Don't talk about your relationship past, present, or the future. You won't get through to her. You are a young man, don't give up but "prepare" to be divorced in the meantime.

 

Looking ahead, you could end up being the next man to steal a W away from a man like me. Funny how the world works, huh?

[Ladyjane14]

She has told me that she feels she and I "lost it" quite some time ago...

 

This is just the "fog babble" that cheaters spit out.

It' a rationalization for why it's okay to pursue the OM. Affairs are exciting. The infatuation response is both emotional AND physiological. The chemicals produced by the body are very much like a drug and the cheater like an addict. They'll say just about anything to keep their buzz going.... and if that means they have to rewrite the marital history in order to do so, they won't scruple.

 

Your post is chalk full of this kind of "fog babble" from your wife... and your brother is right. Sometimes you can wait it out and the WS (wayward spouse) might eventually pull her head out of her hindquarters. The best technique for doing that IMO, is described in Surviving An Affair by Harley. See also his Marriagebuilders website.

 

The thing I like best about Harley's method is that it prepares you emotionally for either eventuality, reconciliation or divorce. You might also read through a copy of Love Must Be Tough by Dobson and Divorce Busting by Weiner-Davis.

 

Now... it's TOTALLY your call if you want to attempt recovery of the marriage. You're in the driver's seat on that. If you want to walk away, you're within your rights to do so. No one should feel obligated to take a cheating spouse back. So, give it some thought.

 

I think your plan to leave town is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction though. Realistically, it doesn't matter where you live in terms of your STBXW's visitation. She's bound to get at least some visitation with your son and when she has him with her, she'll do as she pleases. Your presence or lack thereof in the same town won't change that. It's better for BOTH of those boys if you and their mother can co-parent effectively without overt malice.

 

You know, I still have a close relationship with my step-father and he and my mother have been divorced for almost 30 years. It's possible that you can protect your son's relationship with his brother and continue to provide a stable male influence in your step-son's life as well.

BUT.... you've got to CALM DOWN.

 

Your wife has stated that the OM is married but separated. If I were you, I'd expose this affair to the OM's wife. Alot of the time, the MM is lying to his wife... as well as to his affair partner. It's possible that he's not as "separated" as he's told your wife.

It's also possible that he's attempting amicable divorce without telling his betrayed spouse about the affair.

 

This is a COMMON plan among adulterers... keep the affair on the down-low and then act like you just met. That way, you don't have to face the consequences of your cheating. "Consequences" are STRESSFUL.

This introduction of stress into the affair relationship sometimes breaks it up.

 

I'd expose the affair to her parents too. You mentioned that your relationship with them is "ruined". Is that because you lost your temper and spoke in a threatening manner to your STBX? Do her parents know what's really happened in your marriage?

 

Sometimes, a parent or sibling can be influential in a WS's decision-making process. And if not, at least if the facts are known, you might be able to garner enough sympathy to repair your relationship with them for the sake of your son. Those are still his grandparents, right?

 

Be prepared...if no one knows about the affair, and you start "exposing" to key players, your wife will be initially quite hostile. In fact, she'll go off like a ballistic missile. She'll swear that "it's over". She'll tell you that you've "ruined any chance of reconciliation". But, in actuality... you've nothing to lose and everything to gain. She's ALREADY gone for all intents and purposes, right?

 

Just don't give her any 'head's up'. Exposure should NOT be negotiated. You just DO IT. Make sure you treat this tool like a scalpel and not a bludgeon though. You don't want to come off like Chicken Little, hysterical all over town as if the sky were falling. Be circumspect and give this information to only the people who might be influential in ending the affair. For example, the OM's betrayed spouse can potentially cause more havoc for them than an adulterous relationship can survive.

 

You might also see an attorney if you haven't done so already. You'll feel better when you know for sure what your rights are. Hang on to your home and your child... and make a priority out of protecting your step-son as well. You'll be glad you did, no matter what eventually happens with the marriage.

 

Serenity is best. Don't allow your emotions to make your decisions for you. Remember this... If you are not in control of your emotions... then your emotions are in control of YOU.

 

Deep breaths, fella. It's a messy process any way slice it, but you'll make it through this.

[hurting_in_nw]

Welcome to world of the disposable marriage - the

"It's All About Me" society. Sorry to hear your story. Lives today are like books, they're exciting as you're reading them for the first time but then they're put on the shelf in favor of a new book. The first book is still exciting - if you read it again, you will almost always enjoy it again, differently. But reading it again takes EFFORT. Sure parts will be boring, but if your patient and persistent you will find new things that interest or thrill you. But why WORK when its easier to get a new book where the excitement starts at page ONE? There are so many real-life analogies it makes me sick....tv channels, internet surfing, cars, radio stations, homes, etc. "I'm bored with this, what's next?" Life is not a video game.

 

I totally agree with you here. My wife has lamented many times over the years the loss of the "butterflies" and excitement of a new relationship. Despite my explaining that it's not how life works--you trade those feelings in for security, stability, history, and long-term love with children and family.

 

Unfortunately there are a lot of men out there waiting like vultures for these confused women to come along. The men feed them a little drug called euphoria that can't easily be had at home anymore because the women HAVE CHOSEN (with their H) their go-go lives that push all that fun-love stuff to the back and BOOM, the women are addicted. The affair almost always topples badly and the W will be left in a mess. To top that off? ... she'll blame you for that too. Oh, and you'll accept the blame, go to a counselor, promise to change, and it won't do a damn thing but beat YOU down further.

 

I understand this...again it's those "butterflies." Sure, you miss them, but you know, if that's what you want, stay single. And don't think for a second that I'll accept blame for anything that happens to her once she's out of my life. I've done everything I can now because she is still my W, but while I can accept partial blame for the things that made her feel we "lost it" (and very little at that, since I wasn't ever given the opportunity to know something was wrong and make an effort to fix it), my counseling going forward will mostly be focused on me, and what it will take to get over this betrayal.

 

Comparing my situation to yours, I would have much rather found out when I was younger that now, mid-40's and married 23 years.

My advice to you is be strong. Don't scream, beg, plead, try to reason with her, or manipulate. Don't talk about your relationship past, present, or the future. You won't get through to her. You are a young man, don't give up but "prepare" to be divorced in the meantime.

 

This is the advice that I have read and been told, and it's what I will follow. I will mourn the end of this marriage on my own, unlike her who is still attempting to use me as her emotional crutch. This is why I have asked her to move out and stop calling/emailing me at work, etc. I told her that we will schedule times to talk or only meet at counseling.

 

Looking ahead, you could end up being the next man to steal a W away from a man like me. Funny how the world works, huh?

 

Not a chance man. I have never been anything but loyal and respected the bounds of relationships. In fact, looking back I can see that she did the same thing with my stepson's father and me...she was feeling unhappy in that relationship, met me, became friends, and began to show an interest in something more. The difference is that I told her we would never be more than friends unless she ended the other relationship first. I wasn't going to let her have me make that decision for her. It had to be hers. Unfortunately the guy in this situation doesn't care about any of that.

[hurting_in_nw]

This is just the "fog babble" that cheaters spit out.

It' a rationalization for why it's okay to pursue the OM. Affairs are exciting. The infatuation response is both emotional AND physiological. The chemicals produced by the body are very much like a drug and the cheater like an addict. They'll say just about anything to keep their buzz going.... and if that means they have to rewrite the marital history in order to do so, they won't scruple.

 

Your post is chalk full of this kind of "fog babble" from your wife... and your brother is right. Sometimes you can wait it out and the WS (wayward spouse) might eventually pull her head out of her hindquarters. The best technique for doing that IMO, is described in Surviving An Affair by Harley. See also his Marriagebuilders website.

 

The thing I like best about Harley's method is that it prepares you emotionally for either eventuality, reconciliation or divorce. You might also read through a copy of Love Must Be Tough by Dobson and Divorce Busting by Weiner-Davis.

 

Thanks! I'll check all those resources out. And you're right, I have felt like she's in a fog of depression and whatever else...but it's clear at this point that she's hearing very little and has made up her mind. As I alluded to in my last post, she basically did the same thing with her last relationship. I'm thinking that maybe she does this, but then stays with the "new" person as a way of justifying what she did to the last person. As if, if it lasts long enough, it was OK to do what she did.

 

Now... it's TOTALLY your call if you want to attempt recovery of the marriage. You're in the driver's seat on that. If you want to walk away, you're within your rights to do so. No one should feel obligated to take a cheating spouse back. So, give it some thought.

 

Well, I don't feel as if it's my call. She's the one who has resisted reconciliation, while I, even though I've been cheated on, have been the one making the appointments with counseling, etc. I have been the one making every effort to try and save things...she has effectively done nothing.

 

I think your plan to leave town is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction though. Realistically, it doesn't matter where you live in terms of your STBXW's visitation. She's bound to get at least some visitation with your son and when she has him with her, she'll do as she pleases. Your presence or lack thereof in the same town won't change that. It's better for BOTH of those boys if you and their mother can co-parent effectively without overt malice.

 

That's the problem--I know myself, and I know what it takes for me to heal from a tough situation, and that is typically removing myself from any reminder of it, at least for a while. She has agreed to let me have him a majority of the time, and understands why I would want to leave. I know myself--I tend to hold grudges and I don't want to become consumed thinking about her, where she is, who this guy is, what I'd like to do to him, etc. It's better for me to have some space. It's funny, that's something that cheating spouses always seem to ask for, but when the hurt spouse asks for it, they get the guilt trip about "doing what's best for the kids." Why didn't she do what was best for the kids, and upon deciding that she didn't want to be with me anymore, speak up before she went out and cheated? She told the counselor that she didn't go out looking for a relationship...that it was just a chance meeting that grew into something else. That's just her way though--she can't get out of a difficult emotional situation without a crutch. Quite sad the more I think about it.

 

You know, I still have a close relationship with my step-father and he and my mother have been divorced for almost 30 years. It's possible that you can protect your son's relationship with his brother and continue to provide a stable male influence in your step-son's life as well.

BUT.... you've got to CALM DOWN.

 

I know, I know. Deep breaths. SERENITY NOW!!

 

Believe me, it's the hardest thing I've ever had to face that these two brothers will be separated. Again though...not what I ever wanted. I never wanted to be in this place. Ever. But now that I find myself here I need to do what I have to do for my own well-being, even if that means they will be apart, at least for while. Three or four months after she and I got together, my stepson's dad hit a breaking point and got physical with her. Four months later! At least I'm recognizing at this point that I would probably be the exact same way, and I will not go down that road. I'd rather go away for six months or a year, get my head on straight, then be able to have the possibility of coming back in a healthy way.

 

Your wife has stated that the OM is married but separated. If I were you, I'd expose this affair to the OM's wife. Alot of the time, the MM is lying to his wife... as well as to his affair partner. It's possible that he's not as "separated" as he's told your wife.

It's also possible that he's attempting amicable divorce without telling his betrayed spouse about the affair.

 

This is a COMMON plan among adulterers... keep the affair on the down-low and then act like you just met. That way, you don't have to face the consequences of your cheating. "Consequences" are STRESSFUL.

This introduction of stress into the affair relationship sometimes breaks it up.

 

This was one of the first things I told her I was going to do when she told me about it, and mentioned he was married. However, she has smartly kept the details about who this person is from me. I have a suspicion based on a couple of emails I read, but again, I don't want to hang on to the aspects of this that feed into my anger. I will find myself consumed by it all, and it's just not productive. Not to mention, in this day and age, you never know when a scorned woman will show up with a gun and start shooting, and the last thing I would want is my kids in a situation like that. Both my W and the OM will get what they deserve--I'm not religious by any means, but I do firmly believe in karma, and have seen how it gives people what they have coming to them.

 

Yes, the consequences are stressful, which is what she was trying to vent to me yesterday in a long-winded email about how she doesn't know how we will work everything out, sell the house, split things up, etc. I told her that I didn't want to hear any of it, that I'm not her crutch anymore. "Tell your boyfriend, he's the one who understands you, remember?" is what I tell her. She has also told me that the affair has only affirmed what she was feeling before, which is that she hasn't been in love with me for some time. In essence, that it's not the reason she wishes to leave, but rather the act that has made her realize her feelings (or non-feelings) were indeed real. I know it's all rationalization, but if she refuses to see that, what can I do?

 

I'd expose the affair to her parents too. You mentioned that your relationship with them is "ruined". Is that because you lost your temper and spoke in a threatening manner to your STBX? Do her parents know what's really happened in your marriage?

 

Sometimes, a parent or sibling can be influential in a WS's decision-making process. And if not, at least if the facts are known, you might be able to garner enough sympathy to repair your relationship with them for the sake of your son. Those are still his grandparents, right?

 

I feel my relationship with them is ruined because once this other person is in the picture, I can't continue to be the son-in-law. Again, maybe down the road that will be a possibility, but definitely not in the short-term. I have some hope that her brother will speak to her about this and support my side of things, but I don't know. Her relationships with her mother and father aren't very close because again, she has always run away from the underlying issues regarding their split, her mother's alcoholism when my W and her brother were little, etc. She keeps things nice on the surface, but there's a lot of ugliness underneath. Her parents do know about the affair though, as well as her brother. In this equation, the brother is the only one who has any possibility of getting through to her though. And also, as hurt and angry as I am, I know that deep down she is sick and needs help, so I'm trying not to be vindictive and telling everyone we know so that she has nobody left. I think that would sink her further down into her depression, and it's still my hope that one day she can work all of her issues out. It's just sad that she's not seeing the love that I'm extending to her, and feels that I "don't understand her" anymore, because I know and understand her more than anybody, including herself. She's just in this fog now, and I don't know how to get her out of it.

 

But you know, you can't help someone who won't help themselves, right? I am a good man...I have always treated women very well and have given my all in these last 8 years. I know there is someone out there who will make me happy...I thought it was her but I guess I was wrong. At some point I owe it to myself to stop being her door mat and move on with my life.

 

You might also see an attorney if you haven't done so already. You'll feel better when you know for sure what your rights are. Hang on to your home and your child... and make a priority out of protecting your step-son as well. You'll be glad you did, no matter what eventually happens with the marriage.

 

We're both smart people, and understand that the money we have worked to save over the last number of years shouldn't end up in the hands of lawyers. We're hoping to resolve this amicably, but I told her that wouldn't happen if she wasn't going to let me have my son. Now that she has agreed to that, I think I can move forward without it becoming an ugly legal battle that leaves us penniless. She makes 1/3 more money than I do, and I certainly don't want to come out of this as a single dad without a penny to his name. I guess I was feeling that I was upping the ante in the hope that she would back down, but she won't. She seems intent on splitting up at this point. I don't know what else I can do to try and fix things. I feel like if I am going to get what I want, I should take it, move on, and let her learn the hard lessons she's going to learn on her own. She will now medicate herself with the ins and outs of learning a DIY divorce. I kinda feel like, "Whatever" at this point, even though I do love her, and would still do anything to fix things if she would at least try.

 

Serenity is best. Don't allow your emotions to make your decisions for you. Remember this... If you are not in control of your emotions... then your emotions are in control of YOU.

 

Deep breaths, fella. It's a messy process any way slice it, but you'll make it through this.

 

I know, and thank you for the reminder. I need it because I am a very emotional person. Thankfully I have put the vicious anger behind me now, and am moving forward with a more positive, sense-based attitude. But it comes and goes...sometimes when I think about where we're headed I cry over losing the most precious things in my life. As I said I never even knew anything was wrong--we never stopped having sex, never stopped talking, etc. I never wanted to be a divorcee, have my kids live apart, sell my house. Any of it. It's such a raw f'ing deal. But I know that one day I will move on. It's just tough knowing that I'm only taking the first steps on that long, hard road, and the bumps there will be along the way. But unlike her, I will face it head-on, because that's the kind of person that I am and I know that you can't run away or take the easy way out every time life shovels some **** on ya.

 

Thank you all for everything. I'm sure you'll be seeing me around for a while.

[Missy27]

Hi - I'm new to this forum, but have come from another forum which I was part of for sometime, so I hope that I can offer you some advice that maybe of use.

 

I agree with what LJ14 said about exposing the affair. YOU have to jump into the drivers seat with this one now. YOU have the opportunity to be in control of this situation IF you choose to embrace it. Your W has made her bed, now she can lie in it.

 

You dont have time for mourning at the moment. You need to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and grab the bull by the horns. Grieving and reflection can come later on, once the outcome of this has been cemented.

 

I've seen it over and over, time and time again with affairs. Your W is still feeling the initial "rush" people experience at the beginning of a new relationship, and although she may feel like she has made the right decision now, if you play this right, she'll soon realise what she is loosing and I can pretty much guarantee that there will come a point when her own reality comes crashing down on her.

 

My brother went through the same thing with his XW. They were married for 6 years, together for 13, had two boys together, bought a house together, did all the things that "happily" married couples and families do together. He thought everything was fine until one Sunday when she told him she wanted him to move out. It was a long and complicated seperation, but to cut a long story short, after a few months of seperation, my brother found out that his XW had been having a 12 month affair

 

She had barked out all the normal spiel "I love you but I'm not in love with you", "It's lost it's spark", "I just dont think we connect anymore" but like LJ14 said, these are just words cheaters use to validate their actions. Anyway - they divorced, she "gave" their eldest son to my brother and moved STRAIGHT in with her OM. Never gave herself chance to grieve the end of her marriage, better herself or reflect on what SHE had done to contribute to the death of their relationship. In the end OM finished with her about a year later, and she was a wreck. Finally reality had smacked her right between the eyes at full velocity and she suddenly realised what she had actually given up, just for the sake of a few "butterflies".

 

You need to keep your head, stay cool, calm and collected and SHOW your W what she is missing. MAKE her see the life that she REALLY wants slipping through her fngers. Get on with your life. Be amicable but not desperate, distant but not cold. Dont beg her or plead with her, let her go and learn the hard way, whilst watching you ooze confidence and togetherness. Its the only way to even hope for reconcilliation.

[quiet1one1]

NW, sounds like you're doing what's necessary. I won't be easy - hang in there.

 

One last thing I'd like to mention is the thing I'm having the hardest time with. Now that I've been told by my W everyone of those easy-to-hear tag lines that mean nothing but "you don't do it for me right now" I wonder ithat IF we can work things out, will I EVER BE ABLE to feel the same way about her again? Or any other woman, for that matter? I think about that everyday. Unlike your situation, I do not think there was/is an affair (I do wonder tho) so if I'm struggling with these feelings, you will probably have an even tougher time.

[Ladyjane14]

 

Now... it's TOTALLY your call if you want to attempt recovery of the marriage. You're in the driver's seat on that. If you want to walk away, you're within your rights to do so. No one should feel obligated to take a cheating spouse back. So, give it some thought.

 

Well, I don't feel as if it's my call. She's the one who has resisted reconciliation, while I, even though I've been cheated on, have been the one making the appointments with counseling, etc. I have been the one making every effort to try and save things...she has effectively done nothing.

 

What I mean is that deciding to make any attempt at all on reconcilliation is totally your call. Your WW can decide that she wants to end the marriage without your approval, sure enough... but she can't decide to keep YOU in it without your cooperation.

 

Waywards often believe they have more choices than they actually do. It's exciting to try and decide between two lovers. But unless both those lovers are willing to keep 'circling the airport' while she makes up her mind... she's got fewer options than she thinks she does.

 

Bottom line... this is all new. It's 'early days' yet.. just like your brother told you. Give yourself about three weeks to absorb all the information. Remain noncommittal on whatever subjects you can. Then, either be 'ALL IN' on the idea of marital recovery or be 'ALL OUT' of the marriage. Don't sit on the fence waiting to see what happens past the point where you've go a pretty good idea what your goals are. Instead, utilize your positive ENERGY in achieving whatever you've decided. Be proactive... not reactive.

 

I've told you some things and so has Missy27 that are geared toward reconciliation.... and if there comes a point at which you're "all in", then these are some options that might help you. But until you've made a decision on where you'll expend your effort, recovery or divorce... it's perfectly okay for you to take some time and get a handle on things. Just try to keep as many options open as you can while you're considering what your goals will be.

[Missy27]

What I mean is that deciding to make any attempt at all on reconcilliation is totally your call. Your WW can decide that she wants to end the marriage without your approval, sure enough... but she can't decide to keep YOU in it without your cooperation.

 

Waywards often believe they have more choices than they actually do. It's exciting to try and decide between two lovers. But unless both those lovers are willing to keep 'circling the airport' while she makes up her mind... she's got fewer options than she thinks she does.

 

Bottom line... this is all new. It's 'early days' yet.. just like your brother told you. Give yourself about three weeks to absorb all the information. Remain noncommittal on whatever subjects you can. Then, either be 'ALL IN' on the idea of marital recovery or be 'ALL OUT' of the marriage. Don't sit on the fence waiting to see what happens past the point where you've go a pretty good idea what your goals are. Instead, utilize your positive ENERGY in achieving whatever you've decided. Be proactive... not reactive.

 

I've told you some things and so has Missy27 that are geared toward reconciliation.... and if there comes a point at which you're "all in", then these are some options that might help you. But until you've made a decision on where you'll expend your effort, recovery or divorce... it's perfectly okay for you to take some time and get a handle on things. Just try to keep as many options open as you can while you're considering what your goals will be.

 

This is a REALLY good insight. LJ14 is right. You need to decide EXACTLY where you are heading with this.

[ilmw]

I was going to quote Lj's last post... but it would be way to long...

 

I'm gonna tell you... you have gotten some awesome advise already on here... and there is not much I could add ... after these ladies have laid it all out for you.

 

I'll just put some of it in my own words.. You need CLARITY... Like what has already been said... you need a course of action... do I, don't I... no fence sitting. With Fuzzy ideas... just comes confusion... with confusion, comes stress... and this type of situation is stressful enough.

 

You get your head screwed on... get your plan in action.... and you do your damnedest.. to maintain that plan.

 

With Clarity... comes some form of peace. You can concentrate on what is important... and it is easier (in time) to flush the other crap out of your mind...

 

Other than that... I can't really think of much else to say that has not already been said already.

 

Take care of you...

 

Ilmw

[hurting_in_nw]

Thank you all for the help and advice. I feel as if in these last few days I have achieved some clarity...but maybe I'm fooling myself and am really still in shock over the whole thing.

 

I think my resolve was that as long as she was so unwilling to make things work, and would agree to let me have our son, then I would let her have what she wants. Of course, when she agreed to all of that, I said, "OK, so not that you have agreed to that, I would like it in writing." Funny, but then she started saying she wasn't sure, etc. In the end she said she would, provided I promise not to turn him against her, which I would never do. If someday when he's an adult he wants to know why we split up, I will be honest with him, but I firmly believe that children should enjoy their childhood to the fullest extent without the burdens of adult life and knowledge.

 

As for exposing the affair--she's basically told me that she wants me to tell all the people we know, though she guises it as "You should feel OK to talk to those people and tell them what you want. I'm the one who will have to live with the consequences if they decide to shut me out." That's the thing here--there's no hesitation on her part. On the surface she seems perfectly willing to accept all the consequences of what she's done, but I do know her and I know that what you see on the surface isn't an accurate reflection of what's necessarly going on underneath. She's a tough nut to crack, to say the least.

 

I don't know how I would figure out who this person is anyway, short of becoming a paranoid obsessive and following her around everywhere. As I said, this advice seems to go against other things I've read that basically say it's up to her to end it, not me. I suppose the angle I'm approaching it from is pointing things out to her--how so few relationships borne out of infidelity work, how men cheat for different reasons then women, and that as soon as she starts unloading her baggage on him, he will likely say "See ya. I've already got a wife for all that." When I bring up that he is still married, she says, "Well, he's separated and doesn't have much contact with her." So I say, "Then maybe you should ask yourself, if that's really the case, why aren't they divorced, or even in the process?" I'm trying to shine the light of reality on what she's doing, and point out to her that she's fooling herself. I don't even think she's entertained the possibility that someone she's known for only a few weeks, who is cheating on his wife, might be lying to her.

[quiet1one1]

IWhen I bring up that he is still married, she says, "Well, he's separated and doesn't have much contact with her." So I say, "Then maybe you should ask yourself, if that's really the case, why aren't they divorced, or even in the process?" I'm trying to shine the light of reality on what she's doing, and point out to her that she's fooling herself. I don't even think she's entertained the possibility that someone she's known for only a few weeks, who is cheating on his wife, might be lying to her.

 

DON'T BRING UP, POINT OUT, or otherwise reason with her. If it has any affect at all, it will be negative.

[quiet1one1]

If someday when he's an adult he wants to know why we split up, I will be honest with him, but I firmly believe that children should enjoy their childhood to the fullest extent without the burdens of adult life and knowledge.

 

Your boy will figure it out clear as a bell on his own! You won't need to say a word. If she's this selfish now I'll be willing to bet it will get worse and he will become less important too, at least in the short term. I've seen it many times. The good thing? You will never, ever, be able to put a price on your child's respect and attention towards YOU for holding your head up above the fray and always doing what's best for him, and you. When they're in college and are ill, who will they call? Dad. It'll be 2:00 AM and you'll never be more proud!

[Gunny376]

Here's a crazy thought.

 

Why not make the decision to leave her, get custody of your son, complete counseling, give yourself time to heal, get a smile back on your face, rub some sunshine on your face ~ and then go find somone who has the same ideas, concepts, beliefs, level of commitment and understanding about marriage as you do.

 

Someone like the ladies that post on this board, that have gone to the libaray, search the internet, gone to bookstores and bought books and actually read them over and over about what it takes to make a marriage work.

 

Someone that actually has a clue about what it takes to make a marriage work, who can and will call you on your cheap ****, (we all have our moments ) etc.

 

You seem to have a good handle on things and you've gotten some most excellent advice here.

 

I'm more subtle than Lady Jane I'd drop this gal like a bad habit, pick myself up, dust myself off and let all the ladies know I'm free and back out here again!

 

I'd let the STBXW know ~ I'm fresh out of "time" for her and her BS. If crying won't make her stay ~ it won't make her come back. Life's to freaking short! NEXT!

 

So many women ~ so little time!

[hurting_in_nw]

Haha Gunny--I've read some of your other posts and I was waiting for that! You know what, you're absolutely right.

 

I decided to look into this other relationship of hers, and in doing so I found that she had actually been talking to an ex-boyfriend of hers back in January, emailing back and forth and saying "Let's go for a ride." I confronted her with it, and she acknowledged that it was wrong, but insisted that he's not the OM either (or the other guy who I thought it might be--see a pattern developing here?). Whatever. I told her to pack her **** up and get the **** out. I'm done. I told her to look me in the eyes, and if she really meant it, if she said, "Stop fighting for me" then I would. And she did. She said it, and she means it. So it's officially over. She wants to do a DIY-type divorce, but I told her that since she has lied to me so much for so long, I want complete transparency on all the finances from now until then. I don't trust her one bit, and I wouldn't put it past her to pillage the accounts at some point. She swears she won't but obviously she can't be trusted.

 

She has agreed to give me custody of my son and allow me to move away if I so wish. That day is still a ways away, so I'm not going to commit to that yet, but it's good to know that I can if I want to.

 

This woman is the most selfish human being in existence. Just sick and selfish. But she's not my problem anymore. Just show me where to sign and I can move on.

 

Thanks for the help everyone! I'll keep ya posted.

[whichwayisup]

I am sorry for all that you're going through, and I feel for your kids. Ouch...

 

My suggestion for finding out who this guy is, get a friend to follow your wife, get some details or hire a PI. If he is going to be around, you need to know who he is.

 

This woman is the most selfish human being in existence. Just sick and selfish

 

Her thinking and the way she's handling herself is not normal. She's stuck in fantasy-land and hasn't a clue what is around the corner. Things are happy go lucky right now and until the fantasy bubble bursts, this is how things are for a while.

It's good that you are removing yourself from her. She isn't the woman you married, atleast not right now...

 

Good luck and keep posting. Many people can help you through this!

[hurting_in_nw]

I am sorry for all that you're going through, and I feel for your kids. Ouch...

 

Thank you. That's the hardest part in all of this...the kids.

 

My suggestion for finding out who this guy is, get a friend to follow your wife, get some details or hire a PI. If he is going to be around, you need to know who he is.

 

OK, I'm kinda new to this, but I think this is really bad advice for anyone in my situation, particularly when the W has made it clear she wants the D. I am letting go of it. I just don't care anymore what she does or who she does it with. Life will take care of any retribution toward her. I need to move on with my own life and not let this poison me any further.

 

Her thinking and the way she's handling herself is not normal. She's stuck in fantasy-land and hasn't a clue what is around the corner. Things are happy go lucky right now and until the fantasy bubble bursts, this is how things are for a while.

It's good that you are removing yourself from her. She isn't the woman you married, atleast not right now...

 

I've lost any hope for a reconciliation at this point, so I really couldn't care less how she thinks, and whether or not she's normal. She's done so much to betray me at this point, I wouldn't ever want to be friends with her, much less reconcile. She doesn't even know who she is herself.

[hurting_in_nw]

So she's been gone since I told her to get out on Friday...haven't seen nor heard from her, which is quite nice I must say. I've had my moments, but I spent the weekend going out and having fun...things I never did while under her thumb. Feels good. The kids have been at her mom's house, and the WW is picking them up tomorrow to bring them home and get some of her stuff.

 

She's in for a surprise--I took all her belongings, except for her clothes in the closet, and put them all in the garage. That includes her dresser full of clothes, all her toiletries, pictures, books, etc. I'm sticking to my guns on this. She needs to start facing the reality of what this all entails.

 

Tomorrow, before she returns with the kids, I'm going to do some yardwork and cleaning up so we can get the house on the market, hopefully by the end of the week. There's no point in delaying anymore. I have a counseling appt. Monday and am looking forward to it, as well as the look on her face when she sees our bedroom stripped of everything of hers.

[hurting_in_nw]

Well I had asked her to tell the kids what was happening, since she was the one who wants it all this way. So what does she do? She tells them in the car on the 1/2 hour ride home from her mother's house. Then they fell asleep. So she gets here, tells me she'll need to borrow a truck from someone to get all her stuff in the next few days, wakes the boys up, and says goodbye. Great mom, huh? She's just so pathetic. I can't wait until she's out of my life for good. It's felt so good these past few days being free from her...I realized my relationship with her has been more like a second job for quite some time.

[Gunny376]

Well I had asked her to tell the kids what was happening, since she was the one who wants it all this way. So what does she do? She tells them in the car on the 1/2 hour ride home from her mother's house. Then they fell asleep. So she gets here, tells me she'll need to borrow a truck from someone to get all her stuff in the next few days, wakes the boys up, and says goodbye. Great mom, huh? She's just so pathetic. I can't wait until she's out of my life for good. It's felt so good these past few days being free from her...I realized my relationship with her has been more like a second job for quite some time.

 

Opps! What's that I hear? Is that the sound of someone "manning~up?"

 

When all is said and done, a man really only has two choices ~ what he can do and what he can't do. You've done all that you can do, and now its time to own up to what you can't do ~ and that's make a marriage work with someone whose not willing to make it work. Just that damn plain ~ just that damn simple.

 

Once you've reconciled that ~ it all comes down to this ~ "What are you going to do about it!" Everything else is BS!

[hurting_in_nw]

So, I've been having difficulty dealing with my anger when she is around. Yesterday when she came by with our son I went off again, saying horrible, horrible things to her (I don't think he heard, but still...). I just hate this OM so much, I want to...well, you know.

 

So yesterday I went and joined the gym, complete with a personal trainer. A productive outlet for my anger, and a little self-improvement never hurt anyone either:D I just need to keep things short with her...she asked if we could be civil to one another and do some work on the house together this weekend, and I said that's not a good idea. She should find time to be there to work and I will go somewhere else. It's going to take a long time (if ever) for me to get to a point where I don't just want to lash out whenever I see her.

[hurting_in_nw]

Guys I really need some help dealing with anger. I went to the gym today for my first workout, and it felt good, but I know I have to see her in a half hour and I feel the hate start to creep in, and I get so anxious about it. How will I ever get used to having to see this betraying w***e and not lash out at her every time? It's just so freakin' hard, she acts like none of this even matters to her.

[Ladyjane14]

Guys I really need some help dealing with anger. I went to the gym today for my first workout, and it felt good, but I know I have to see her in a half hour and I feel the hate start to creep in, and I get so anxious about it. How will I ever get used to having to see this betraying w***e and not lash out at her every time? It's just so freakin' hard, she acts like none of this even matters to her.

 

This is something you do for your children. Yeah, you're angry... and who could blame you? But there are times when you just have to 'gut it out' and take the high road.

 

You don't have to be friendly. You don't have to be warm or understanding. But for their sakes... you MUST be civil.

 

Try to look at it as you would a difficult business negotiation. The other guy might be an a*hole, but you don't give him power in the transaction by letting him get under your skin, right?

 

You'll get through this.

The red-hot emotions will fade. And believe it or not, someday you'll be content again and better off for having maintained your dignity. :bunny:

[whichwayisup]

Get some one on one counselling in. Even if you just go to afew sessions, it will help you cope with the anger and resentment. Or journal that bad energy into pen and paper and just start writing it out. Then burn it.

[hurting_in_nw]

Well, as I thought the anger got the best of me once again tonight. I think I at least made her see some of the consequences of her actions, but in the end it was just ugly.

 

The result is me instituting a NC policy (physical contact anyway). The kids will be picked up at a neutral third party's place. I just can't see her at all, I really do hate her guts and it's only going to be ugly if I have to interact with her, for now anyway. I made so much progress over the past week, only to have it all thrown out the window tonight due to my outburst. But it made me realize that as long as she continues to rub it in my face that she's still seeing the OM and thinks there is going to be some sort of happy ending to all of this, I will continue to harbor these feelings. I'm the one still living in the house we shared, while she is in her new apartment, taking all her stuff, and seeing this scum still, acting as if life is just peachy. I don't need it. I know there needs to be some civility for the sake of the kids, but the fact is that I can't be civil right now if I have to see her in person.

 

So, from here on out, the only contact is to be via email (my home address, no more emails at work). Also, these emails aren't to contain any personal information, even if it's a "Hello." I just want a schedule of where I have to be at what times to get the kids. I think this is a good solution for the time being...it's the only way I'm going to be able to start healing.