Sufferings is result of our sins?

[Moai]

While I appreciate the born-again love-fest that has developed of late, I am wondering if any of you wold care to address the topic of this thread--namely, is suffering punishment for sin?

 

If you think it is, why? Or why not?

[Love Hurts]

At this moment in time; the Lord is working in me as I have many thoughts to sort through, leery of speaking to others lest I say the wrong thing on behalf of the Lord.

 

I now seem to be caught mentally in the middle of; is it acceptable to debate the word of God or does it fall under greater understanding of … for those that seek truth?

 

And often to deliver the word of God is not often enough, as its dissected. Do I stand and work with those that adamantly reject as I was there once upon a time… or do I focus on those that are hungry for truth without rejection?

 

As I type the Spirit of the Lord says Love has no boundaries.

The Lord is answering my confusion even now… again can you see the Lord is working always in our lives? Praise Jesus.

 

 

 

 

Hey Love Hurts!!!!

 

LOVE HAS NO BOUNDRIES!!!!!! Amen, and another amen! I think, and know in my Spirit that you have been totally led in this forum. I am amazed when reading the posts/replies at how the Spirit leads you to "give an account"....and that my dear sis in the Lord IS what you are doing, being obedient to the word. This is your gift.

 

Am of the opinion that those who frequent this forum are looking for the truth, they may not even know it....example, physical aspect:

 

Felt lousey for years off and on.....understand the mind is a very powerful thing....my mind knew something was out of wack, but what? So I went on, doctor after doctor seeking the "truth" as to why I felt so bad....would get bits and pieces here and there adding "some" truth to this infirmity, but nothing substancial to actually "cure" it....to shed light to the "cause of my condition".

 

So, get the call from the doc with the "truth"....my symptoms were subtle before the truth....but now with the truth the conncection took place with my mind and body and BAMMMMMM, my symptoms immediately became acute.

 

"MY PEOPLE PERRISH FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE"!!!!!!!!!!! I would have eventually went to an untimely grave without this vital knowledge.

 

Is the Spiritual aspect of man any different???? NOPE....God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is THE vital nutrient concerning ones eternal destiny. In the above paragragh I stated, "My people perrish for lack of knowledge"... Please correct me if I'm wrong....God, in this passage of scripture in talking to the saved.....BUT make no mistake all of the unsaved belong to HIM too....

 

All of you "unsaved" in this forum belong to The God of Jacob, Abraham and David anyway.....you are Gods special people, you just need to acknowledge it in your hearts....

 

 

Pureinheart,

 

Praise Jesus you were shown what to do for your body in order to remain and to be well.

 

I am so thankful to the Lord for your presence.

 

As we too were once unsaved God called us out of and we heard that we might now call Him Abba Father.

 

We were of God and He called to us we were unsaved; yet still we were also not His… as we had not yet claimed Him as our Father, our Lord our Savior.

 

There some sad scriptures we have to consider when we consider ourselves unsaved. We as unsaved may not feel as though we partially belong to Satan but we do. And should we never become saved we shall never be with God.

 

Romans 8:5-10

5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 

7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

--9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,

he is none of his.

 

10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness

 

We can know God watches over the unsaved and loves all. But sadly not all will turn from their ways and follow Christ. Not all belong to God. We may know of God and consider God but to accept God is when God accepts us as His own.

 

And God does hear the cries and prayers of the unsaved.

God's ears are open to the cries of humanity in general, as Job chapter 34 states:

 

" For his eyes [are] upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings. [There is] no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves. . . . He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others; Because they turned back from him, and would not consider any of his ways: So that they cause the cry of the poor to come unto him, and he heareth the cry of the afflicted. " (Job 34:21-22, 26-28)

 

 

God cares; but do we?

 

 

God Bless*

[Love Hurts]

Hi Love Hurt and Pureinheart

I feel Lord's power and love so strong here, always so good to look at your posts, I am learning. Praise Lord!

I guess every one of us has different kinds of gifts. Lord has different method to deal with us, sometimes it is beyond our understanding....., and He want us to love and support each other, sure Lord love His childrens very much. I just want to stay beside Lord's feet forever! I feel love and light, tender, kindness and healing as long as I put my eyes on Lord and rely everything on HIm....,

 

Perseverence! every time someone come out to shut us up, or Satan used traps to make us silent, I feel bigger urge to speak out, Praise Lord! Lord make us stronger each day

Yes, one day at a time

 

Praise Jesus our Lord!

 

LB, You are diligent. That is your strength.

God Bless*

[Love Hurts]

I think if we relax and enjoy, then Holy Spirit can speak through us? so we won't worry about which method we should use? as long as Holy Spirit speak out, if not touch the people who debate, definitely the words must touch somebody else who see the post. It is not we convert heart, it is Lord who convert heart. we cannot see right away, but Lord knows

 

I still think we can dodge and ignore many of posts from the other sides which hide "dirty balls", It is impossible there are no dirty balls as long as we tell the words of God. But same time it is a training class. when we see dirty balls coming, we still can keep calm and gentle, like our Lord Jesus.

 

One night I woke up, this idea came to me. That some posts' questions will pull our mindset to their mindset--carnal one. but we can dodge these questions which really aren't worth answering. SO we must constantly check ourselves if we act on Spiritual realm or flesh realm. If we act on Spritual realm, Holy Spirit can work through us, so there must have some fruits through these works. SIMPLE? IF we act on Spiritual realm, then Holy Spirit works, then fruits come, then we won't burn ourselves out. It is a rejoice journey. Lord's yoke is light, light indeed!

 

The only one thing we need to do is how to achieve a intimate relationship with Lord. simple:laugh: , depend on Lord for everything, ask Lord's advise for everything, give every burden to Lord, give every secret to Lord and totally expose ourselves to Lord. If we decide to do something or plan, please wait for Lord's confirmation!!!! this way we won't hurt ourselves:)

 

LB, Excellent advice…well taken.

God Bless*

[LaughMachine]

Am I a dirty ball :-(?lol

[lonelybird]

Am I a dirty ball :-(?lol

Nope.................

[pricillia]

Hi Love Hurt and Pureinheart

I feel Lord's power and love so strong here, always so good to look at your posts, I am learning. Praise Lord!

I guess every one of us has different kinds of gifts. Lord has different method to deal with us, sometimes it is beyond our understanding....., and He want us to love and support each other, sure Lord love His childrens very much. I just want to stay beside Lord's feet forever! I feel love and light, tender, kindness and healing as long as I put my eyes on Lord and rely everything on HIm....,

 

Perseverence! every time someone come out to shut us up, or Satan used traps to make us silent, I feel bigger urge to speak out, Praise Lord! Lord make us stronger each day

Yes, one day at a time

 

Praise Jesus our Lord!

 

 

 

No one is trying to make you "shut up"

 

Regardless of your faith in God you have to play an active role in society and you can keep your head in a book if you would like, But I wonder if you took an active role if it would be more to what god had imagined.

 

Satan is only in your head if you let him be there. Not everyone who does not agree is your enemy they just look at things differently.

 

I would like to know in your own words why you think that people who don't fully agree you think it is a Satan trap???

 

I said it before and I will say it again, one has to have earthly connections to live a full life.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, didn't Jesus have relationships other then reading a book, if he didn't that how would we even know of him.

 

I think that LB, you are isolated and that could potentionally be a bad thing.

[boshemia]

Regarding the original topic: Suffering as a result of our sins?

 

This thought process is one of the most destructive forces out there as far as I'm concerned.

 

First of all I was four the first time I was molested, now how could I have possibly have done something so horrific at the age of four to deserve that kind of suffering.

 

At which point a favorite tactic is to say well, the sins of the father (or mother in my case) can be passed on to the child. My mother was two when she was first molested. So apparently the sin in the family runs so deep that even babies are affected...

 

So where does that leave someone with faith? Blaming God for their suffering as a child, asking God why he wasn't there to protect them. It does more harm for the cause than people stop and realize, not to mention it sounds so self-righteous to say oh, well you must have sinned in order for this terrible fate to have befallen you.

 

Then... they turn around and say... but God loves you, and I will pray for you.

 

Now change the wording a bit, make it fit with what we already know to be true. Not some magic out of nowhere zap, you forgot to bless your meal last night so now you have cancer. Instead of suffering as a result of our sins, say... suffering as a result of our actions... The Bible also says what you sow, so will you reap. If you smoke, you can expect your health to be affected. If you steal from your employer there will be consequences. If I eat too much, I will gain weight, if I drink too much and drive I risk a DWI.

 

For every action, there is a consequence, maybe big maybe small. That we can all comprehend, and no matter what our faith is... we can say yeah. If I do A, then B will probably happen.

 

Now to trace ALL suffering or consequences back to an action on our part is not possible. As a four year old child, there should not have been any action possible that would make a man think of me in a sexual manner. A mother of four children killed by a drunk driver? A child playing with his fathers gun accidentally shoots another child. Who are we to turn around and tell someone in their time of suffering "We only suffer as a result of our sins."

 

We also suffer as a result of other peoples sins, people we might not have had any connection with otherwise. These are the tragedies that we just can't cope with. They make no sense, and when someone is coping with a tragedy, a thought process like this only creates more hurt...

 

I don't know why my life has taken the path it has... why anyone has to suffer pain... I personally don't believe that God was trying to punish me, and I refuse to believe that God "allowed" me to suffer. What I do believe is that someone else was responsible and they will eventually have to take full responsibility for those actions. Just as I will have to account for all of my actions.

 

I do not blame God for my suffering, I blame the man who did the damage. I do believe that God gave me the strength to overcome these things, and he has given me the ability to help others who have been through similar troubles.

 

1 Peter 2:19-20

For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

[lonelybird]

I do not blame God for my suffering, I blame the man who did the damage. I do believe that God gave me the strength to overcome these things, and he has given me the ability to help others who have been through similar troubles.

I sure hope person who molest a child go to hell and suffer the burning, I hope they know that....and turn from sinns

[lonelybird]

People who suffer from others' sins, God is light, is hope, is strengh, is comfort

 

People who suffer from own sinns, God is ready to forgive, but you have to TURN BACK from your sinns, or you have to accept the consequences of your own sinns, it will pay back sooner or later. God is justice and loving, because God is loving, He will restore good, and pay back to evil.

 

We have responsibility to shape our environment. Ignore evil deeds equal to promote them. It is silly to say they have *right* to do what is evil. silly to say they have *right* to do whatever they want. People's flesh desires has tendency to corrupt. What is secret will come out public. Today you are tolerant to evil, tomorrow your offspring will get the undesirable result. Today we are tolerant perverted porns, tomorrow our offspring suffer the consequences. WHO is responsible???? Don't just think for yourself, think for your offsprings also.

 

If we don't listen to God, when we get bad results, we ask God WHY? it would be too late.....

[lonelybird]

Satan is only in your head if you let him be there. Not everyone who does not agree is your enemy they just look at things differently.

No, people is never my enemy, Satan is.

 

I would like to know in your own words why you think that people who don't fully agree you think it is a Satan trap???

Sometimes it is a trap, not all the time, just I can discern these traps. but people speak it maybe not know that Satan is using them

 

I said it before and I will say it again, one has to have earthly connections to live a full life.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, didn't Jesus have relationships other then reading a book, if he didn't that how would we even know of him.

 

I think that LB, you are isolated and that could potentionally be a bad thing

I have earthly connections and relationships, I never said I don't have. When I go out, every person would think I am normal, not crazy like you thought

[pricillia]

No, people is never my enemy, Satan is.

 

 

Sometimes it is a trap, not all the time, just I can discern these traps. but people speak it maybe not know that Satan is using them

 

 

I have earthly connections and relationships, I never said I don't have. When I go out, every person would think I am normal, not crazy like you thought [/quote

 

 

ha did I say that you are crazy??? nope!

 

continue on...

let the light shine... don't let it blind you

[Island Girl]

It is silly to say they have *right* to do what is evil. silly to say they have *right* to do whatever they want. People's flesh desires has tendency to corrupt. What is secret will come out public. Today you are tolerant to evil, tomorrow your offspring will get the undesirable result. Today we are tolerant perverted porns, tomorrow our offspring suffer the consequences.

 

Who are these people who say they have a "right to do what is evil"?

 

And who are "we" or "you" that are tolerant to evil?

 

I think you should speak for yourself with regards to these things.

 

I am not "tolerant" to evil. Nor do I, or anyone else I know, say or think I have *right* to do anything I want.

 

What "whatever they want" or "tolerance to evil" are you referring to here...?

Perhaps I am not understanding correctly just what you are trying to say.

[boshemia]

I sure hope person who molest a child go to hell and suffer the burning, I hope they know that....and turn from sinns

 

And on this we agree...

[Just another teen]

Hmm if suffering is result of sins, then how does one explain why some babies suffer more than others? Even if you appeal to original sin, it won't explain why suffering is distributed unevenly.

[sb129]

I go away for a couple of weeks and ALL HELL breaks loose!!!

pardon the pun!

 

This has been quite entertaining.

 

Lovehurts has totally lost the plot. Totally. LH- you can't know for sure if you have been saved, its all been preordained remember. And didn't you say there were only 144000 going to be saved or was that some other nutter?

 

Moai, Island Girl- I commend thee and grovel at the feet of your greatness, you have been brilliant.

a4a and Topper, thanks for the humour, and more relevant points.

 

Boshemia and Priscillia- your sensitivity and thoughtfulness was great, psychoLH could take a leaf out of both of your books.

 

I think the award for most succinct post goes to Moose tho, I love it,

 

 

 

Ok......lovehurts and lonleybird.....I hope you understand what I'm getting ready to tell you is out of love, but you both are not intellectually sound enough to answer most of these posts.....you're doing our cause a great dis-service trying to.

 

And this comes a close second.

 

 

Number one, you think there may be.

 

Number two, you aren't equipped to mess around with one, (nor are we even suppose to entertain that idea), if you did come across them.

 

I know that we can do all things through Christ, however, this isn't the place to attempt it.

 

You are dealing with intellectuals here.

 

The mind is to the spirit what the brain is to the body......these minds have been shaped in a way that you can't comprehend, nor understand. I don't mean this as an insult.....but it's probably best if you just let it go.....

 

 

Nuff said.

[lonelybird]

I go away for a couple of weeks and ALL HELL breaks loose!!!

pardon the pun!

 

This has been quite entertaining.

 

Lovehurts has totally lost the plot. Totally. LH- you can't know for sure if you have been saved, its all been preordained remember. And didn't you say there were only 144000 going to be saved or was that some other nutter?

 

Moai, Island Girl- I commend thee and grovel at the feet of your greatness, you have been brilliant.

a4a and Topper, thanks for the humour, and more relevant points.

 

Boshemia and Priscillia- your sensitivity and thoughtfulness was great, psychoLH could take a leaf out of both of your books.

 

I think the award for most succinct post goes to Moose tho, I love it,

 

 

 

 

 

And this comes a close second.

 

 

 

 

 

Nuff said.

Yes, all predestined. Those who belong to Lord will eventually come to Him; anyone who have a heart for HIm will be taught by God Himself. There are pots for glory use, there are pots for common use. God, only God can know a people's heart. God is justice and almighty. Can a pot ask why pot maker made them that way or this way? No way!

 

We are pots

[boshemia]

 

We are pots

 

I am resisting my deepest urge to point out the obvious, but... your pot might be a bit cracked.

[Island Girl]

I am resisting my deepest urge to point out the obvious, but... your pot might be a bit cracked.

 

Great one boshemia! :lmao:

 

Thank you for this -- I laughed out loud!

[lonelybird]

yeah, keep laughing

[Island Girl]

yeah, keep laughing

Keep posting -- and it'll never be a problem!

 

You are SO FUNNY!

[lonelybird]

Anything less than God's righteousness is separated from that righteousness by an infinite gulf. This is the very nature of anything that is infinite. It is always infinitely apart from the non-infinite. There can be no such thing as that which is “almost infinite.”

 

4. Therefore, the righteousness that God demands must always be an infinite righteousness, since anything less is not true righteousness by His standards.

 

We have a tendency to look at one another in terms of different levels of relative righteousness. To say, “I’m not as bad as he is,” doesn’t mean that we are righteous in God's eyes. To the contrary, God says that “all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment” (Isaiah 64:6).

 

5. Sin is contrary to God's righteousness. This is obvious when we consider what sin is. The Westminster Confession defines sin as “any want of conformity unto or transgression of the Law of God.” Sin in the Biblical sense can only be defined as that which is in violation of God's ultimate standard - His own righteousness.

 

Paul made this very clear when he pronounced that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). By this definition, sin involves falling short of the glory of God. It is transgressing God’s perfect standard of holiness.

 

6. Therefore, sin is infinite in demerit. There is an infinite gulf fixed between the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of men.

 

Man’s relative righteousness could never bridge that gulf, for even a single sin would be enough to establish it forever (and we have committed a lot more than a single sin).

 

But that is not all. Because sin is infinite in demerit, it demands an infinite punishment against the sinner. This is why I believe that Hell will be eternal. A man could not be sent to Hell and then have his sentence completed after a certain number of years, now to be allowed into the presence of God. A single sin would be enough to condemn one for all time and eternity. It is not until you understand the awfulness of sin and its consequences that you can begin to appreciate the magnificent gift of God.

 

7. The righteousness that God credits to the believer’s account is an infinite righteousness. We have been credited with the righteousness of Christ. He is infinitely righteous. He has not merely imputed a portion of His righteousness to our account. Rather, the very nature of His character of complete righteousness has been credited to us. We are regarded by God as having the very righteousness of Christ.

So, good works are not good enough in God's eyes, only invite Jesus Christ into our heart, have relationship with Lord, and change us from inside, can be called "righteousness"

[boshemia]

Hey I did fight back the urge ask if there was a bong to go with that pot, but I decided against it.

 

No offense to you LB, you did call me a spiritual vampire who sucks the energy out of everyone around me, but I have forgiven you. You remind me of my mother... in many many ways.

 

However... it would be nice if just once you could answer a question. I mean a real answer, as in "I believe..." and "This is why I believe"

[lonelybird]

Hey I did fight back the urge ask if there was a bong to go with that pot, but I decided against it.

 

No offense to you LB, you did call me a spiritual vampire who sucks the energy out of everyone around me, but I have forgiven you. You remind me of my mother... in many many ways.

 

However... it would be nice if just once you could answer a question. I mean a real answer, as in "I believe..." and "This is why I believe"

I meant a negative spirit IN you, not YOU. I meant you should fight that negative spirit. anyway, I appreciate that you forgive me

[Island Girl]

I meant a negative spirit IN you, not YOU. I meant you should fight that negative spirit. anyway, I appreciate that you forgive me

 

And yet again -- didn't answer the question!

 

It's okay boshemia - don't take it personally. I've asked the same question and it is ignored every time.