Remorseful cheaters: do not "come clean" with your spouse.

[Trialbyfire]

Sorry, TBF, your question got lost in the fast moving thread.

 

When I first signed on here at LS, I explained that yes, I am a cheater. I have had a few affairs. I'm currently seeing someone on the side somewhat infrequently, but occasionally nonetheless.

Your response is what I thought it might be. Why are you staying in your marriage?

[Scrivdog]

1) I want to contimue to see my kids every day

2) I feel like I need to keep my wife in the lifestyle she's used to at least until the children leave the house.

 

After my youngest goes to college, I'm gone ..!

 

Your response is what I thought it might be. Why are you staying in your marriage?

[Trialbyfire]

1) I want to contimue to see my kids every day

2) I feel like I need to keep my wife in the lifestyle she's used to at least until the children leave the house.

 

After my youngest goes to college, I'm gone ..!

Are your children aware of your transgressions?

[Scrivdog]

Nope .. not at all.

 

Are your children aware of your transgressions?

[Trialbyfire]

Nope .. not at all.

Then I guess they're in for the surprise of their life, aren't they? As for your wife, why is she withholding marital intimacies? Are her needs being met, well, besides material needs that is.

[sb129]

Ladyjane, you are THE BOMB!! You got burned and got past it (which is probably more than I can say for me) and you still tell it straight!! Your earlier post nailed it right on the head why you can't keep betrayal to yourself!! Once again you cut right to the matter!!

 

Cheers!!

 

I agree, I really love Ladyjanes posts.

 

Back to the OP-

 

I agree that its not as black and white as some people would like it to be. IMO a kiss isn't as bad as a full on affair.

Maybe some things should be kept quiet, but others should be told.

Two years ago, I started seeing a MM who INSISTED that his marriage was over (whatever). Then two months inot our R, he announced that his W was pregnant, conception took place a month before we got together. (the dates add up- i stuck around till his son was 15mths- MM didleave his W but thats another story).

The week after i found out about MMs Ws pregnancy, I was seriously doubting whether I should be in R. I went away with some friends, and ended up kissing a hot guy I met in a bar. Alot.

I came back, didn't tell MM, and we stayed together. A year later, AFTER he had left his W, and our R was stronger, he found out about my holiday kiss. And from then on in, our R went into freefall. Never mind that HE was a lying cheating MM!!!! I was suddenly branded the biggest slut in the universe, and he never ever let me forget it. He wouldn't let me go out without him, he didn't want me to see my friends anymore etc etc.

 

So in the end, we split up. Our R never really had a good grounding in trust anyway, and I have no regrets now.

Basically what I am trying to say is there are shades of grey.

 

I shouldn't have cheated, but I shouldn't have been an OW either.

if I hadn't told exMM, maybe we would still be together, but IMO thats the last thing I would want, as I am with a wonderful man right now, and I would never cheat on him, since we have so much more trust, respect and honesty than I did with my ex.

My ex-periences have put me off affairs, MM, cheating etc FOR LIFE.

i also know that my ex has a zero tolerance attitude towards cheating. So best thing to do is NOT cheat.

 

I think each situation is a little different, and should be considered this way, there is no blanket right or wrong answer.

[dropdeadlegs]

This is a very thought provoking thread, and the reason I come here.

 

The posts that are not based on bitterness over past experience are the most valuable to me. Those that have had bad experiences and have been able to process it all and share their experience are the best.

 

I'm still inclined to side with the OP. MySugaree, and amerikajun, but you have all got me thinking, and thinking is a good thing. I am able to listen, discern, and even change my mind.

 

Thank you.

[Chapter2]

I haven't posted in such a long time for various reasons, but I just couldn't "not" post...

 

I could not agree more with your post and I really appreciate you taking the time to post it. LS is notorious for the very line of thinking you so wisely pointed out when you said..."a lot of people on LS like to pretend that affairs happen in a vacuum; that there is no context surrounding the affair, and thus, the adulterer is automatically vilified as someone who has destroyed the sacrament of marriage. I find that to be an overly simplistic and destructive approach to finding out what went wrong in the relationship"...

 

Thank you for taking the time to post...it was great.

 

Something about adultery makes LS the online version of pogrom night.

 

Look, I can understand that cheaters feel hurt, humiliated, betrayed - all of those things and then some. My father had at least one affair and the family suspects he might have had even one more that we didn't find out until after he died. I know something about how adultery feels, even though I saw it from the perspective of a son and not a spouse.

 

My dad got busted because he had a full on affair and it totally drove him away from our family. I've heard my mother talk about it from time to time, and although she is resentful for what he did, she was able to be at peace with herself in later years. And as someone who was indirectly injured by it, I've moved on myself.

 

The fact is, he had issues before he got married and my mother married him knowing he had those foibles. But she hoped she could change him, just as a lot of naive women do. She overlooked his faults because he had a charm, an intellect and he was a handsome guy. He was also 16 years her senior, so I guess she enjoyed the sort of paternal aspect of the relationship on a subconscious level. But my dad was fighting depression and substance abuse, and his first wife had died just a few months before they met. He was in no shape to get married and despite my mother's attraction to him, I think she probably knew that.

 

It should have come as no surprise that they ended up drifting apart as his behavior became more erratic. Likewise, an affair should not have been entirely unanticipated. Does that make it right? Of course not. But the point I'm making is here, a lot of people on LS like to pretend that affairs happen in a vacuum; that there is no context surrounding the affair, and thus, the adulterer is automatically vilified as someone who has destroyed the sacrament of marriage. I find that to be an overly simplistic and destructive approach to finding out what went wrong in the relationship.

 

Without question, cheating is wrong - I would demand accountability from my spouse and I certainly would expect no less of anyone I'm with. However, given the discourse I've seen on threads like these, where people have been conditioned to debase the status of adulterers in the grand tradition of Hester Prynne, I can understand why some people might be more than a bit trepid about spilling the beans, particularly if they honestly believe in their heart of hearts that it was a mistake that won't be repeated (two reasonable people can respectfully disagree on this point, I think).

 

It is obvious that most of us are influenced by an absolutist form of morality, in which "truth" plays an important role. We have been conditioned to believe that marriage is contingent upon "truth" in an absolute sense, and I generally agree with that...I just question whether it should be based on the absolute ideal of true romantic love. I think that most of us have bought into a powerful form of propaganda that prevails in our society, in which we hold up romantic love as an ideal - an ideal that probably 80 percent of all marriages fall well short of. Maybe the ideal itself is not exactly an honest reflection of how human nature works.

[Ladyjane14]

I agree that its not as black and white as some people would like it to be. IMO a kiss isn't as bad as a full on affair.

Maybe some things should be kept quiet, but others should be told.

Two years ago, I started seeing a MM who INSISTED that his marriage was over (whatever). Then two months inot our R, he announced that his W was pregnant, conception took place a month before we got together. (the dates add up- i stuck around till his son was 15mths- MM didleave his W but thats another story).

The week after i found out about MMs Ws pregnancy, I was seriously doubting whether I should be in R. I went away with some friends, and ended up kissing a hot guy I met in a bar. Alot.

I came back, didn't tell MM, and we stayed together. A year later, AFTER hehad left his W, and our R was stronger, he found out about my holiday kiss. And from then on in, our R went into freefall. Never mind that HE was a lying cheating MM!!!! I was suddenly branded the biggest slut in the universe, and he never ever let me forget it. He wouldn't let me go out without him, he didn't want me to see my friends anymore etc etc.

 

So in the end, we split up. Our R never really had a good grounding in trust anyway, and I have no regrets now.

Basically what I am trying to say is there are shades of grey.

 

I shouldn't have cheated, but I shouldn't have been an OW either.

if I hadn't told exMM, maybe we would still be together, but IMO thats the last thing I would want, as I am with a wonderful man right now, and I would never cheat on him, since we have so much more trust, respect and honesty than I did with my ex.

My ex-periences have put me off affairs, MM, cheating etc FOR LIFE.

i also know that my ex has a zero tolerance attitude towards cheating. So best thing to do is NOT cheat.

 

I think each situation is a little different, and should be considered this way, there is no blanket right or wrong answer.

 

Thanks for the kudos, SB129.

 

You know, this is off-topic... but Redfathom just put on a post earlier in Separation/Divorce which included an interesting article. It sounds soooo descriptive of your ex-MM. I couldn't help but notice the similarities in your post.

 

I agree with you that not every situation is exactly the same. For instance, I can't begin to imagine why a non-remorseful cheater who's determined to stay in the marriage for security reasons would EVER tell. These generally aren't people who are feeling less than "justified" in their actions afterall.

 

I suppose it all boils down to what the ultimate goal is.

 

Scriv, for example, apparently feels like he's justified in cheating because of marital problems associated with sexual intimacy. For him, that seems to make it okay. He'd be insane to tell because his "goal" is to eventually leave the marriage, and he's not losing any sleep over whether that's fair to his wife or not.

 

Likewise a woman, who's just using her husband as a cash-cow would be insane to tell. Her "goal" is to coast along getting her needs met as best she can. She's not losing any sleep either, and confessing would put quite a damper on her lifestyle.

(And on an aside to Scriv... what's the difference really? Same thing.. it's just a different flavor. Agendas are met. )

 

I also couldn't recommend complete honesty to someone who's partner is overly aggressive. (Although I think it's CRAZY to cheat on a person who's liable to flip their lid and become violent. ) The better thing to do in a situation like that would be to just get out. If you can't trust somebody to refrain from physically hurting you no matter what they're confronted with... you're walking on eggshells all your life anyway.

 

But excepting for violent people, I'm inclined overall to agree with Enigma. We're talking about adults. It's not fair to determine what they can handle and what they can't. And sometimes the problems just aren't taken seriously enough when the truth isn't out there.

 

OED for example.... He reports that he's made significant changes. I doubt that those changes would have occurred if the relationship hadn't reached crisis. Unfortunately, people don't always pay attention to their mate's complaints. Sometimes it's not until 'the fat is in the fire' that they take action and address the deficits. It's all too common.

 

Like DDL though, I'm still listening....

[michelangelo]

I haven't posted in such a long time for various reasons, but I just couldn't "not" post...

 

I could not agree more with your post and I really appreciate you taking the time to post it. LS is notorious for the very line of thinking you so wisely pointed out when you said..."a lot of people on LS like to pretend that affairs happen in a vacuum; that there is no context surrounding the affair, and thus, the adulterer is automatically vilified as someone who has destroyed the sacrament of marriage. I find that to be an overly simplistic and destructive approach to finding out what went wrong in the relationship"...

 

Thank you for taking the time to post...it was great.

 

That too is a simplistic approach to the resolving infidelity in a marriage.

 

While I agree that a lockstep vilification should not be the way of it. I also think presuming that there was something wrong with the marriage is just as wrong.

 

There are people who will cheat just because they can get away with it.

 

The only thing wrong in the relationship with someone of that type is the BS not recognizing they live with a lying sneaking narcissist.

 

There are times infidelity occurs because of marital issues, but it is just as valid to presume otherwise.

[Chapter2]

Then we agree...I wasn't suggesting it was the "only" approach to resolving infidelity in a marriage nor do I believe you "resolve" infidelity...I believe all involved have the opportunity to heal from it.

 

That too is a simplistic approach to the resolving infidelity in a marriage.

 

While I agree that a lockstep vilification should not be the way of it. I also think presuming that there was something wrong with the marriage is just as wrong.

 

There are people who will cheat just because they can get away with it.

 

The only thing wrong in the relationship with someone of that type is the BS not recognizing they live with a lying sneaking narcissist.

 

There are times infidelity occurs because of marital issues, but it is just as valid to presume otherwise.

[SadrBtWizr]

Living with the guilt will eat you alive. And the affair will be there, whether or not it was talked about. The betrayed spouse will suspect or feel something, but not know what.

 

Not "coming clean" = "staying dirty" and that will eventually start to stink.

[michelangelo]

Then we agree...I wasn't suggesting it was the "only" approach to resolving infidelity in a marriage nor do I believe you "resolve" infidelity...I believe all involved have the opportunity to heal from it.

 

Maybe we quibble about word definitions. What I mean by resolving infidelity in a marriage is that the two in a marriage (can I at least presume on the number of people in a marriage?) solve how they cope with the fallout of someone being unfaithful.

 

And to me, it is vitally important that both parties in the marriage get to reflect on their options. The resolution cannot be successful in a manner respectful of injury and claims of reasons for the cheating until both the cheating spouse and the betrayed spouse know the facts of their situation.

[Trialbyfire]

michelangelo, in other words, come clean, so that everyone gets to make an educated decision and it's an equitable relationship once again.

[michelangelo]

michelangelo, in other words, come clean, so that everyone gets to make an educated decision and it's an equitable relationship once again.

 

Yes. It may be the end of the marriage, it may be the start of a long road of couples counseling, it could be immediate acceptance and moving on.

 

But one person in the marriage knowing what's going on is inherently toxic to the marriage.

[mrmaximum]

Living with the guilt will eat you alive. And the affair will be there, whether or not it was talked about. The betrayed spouse will suspect or feel something, but not know what.

 

Not "coming clean" = "staying dirty" and that will eventually start to stink.

 

Simple and succinct!! Another plaque worthy post!!

[mrmaximum]

You guys shold become therapists, your damn straight and honest all the time, good stuff. I completely agree with you, there are some grey areas in life but in the sordid world of infidelity there aren't any. Trouble erupts when we assume that some indeed exist, yeah? Kudos to you two!!

[Chapter2]

No, I wasn't quibbling now nor adopting a simplistic way of thinking previously...simply stating that I thought another's post was very good. I wasn't even responding specifically to whether or not a person needed to "come clean" but if that's how you read it then so be it. I am of the belief that "coming clean" depends on the motive behind coming clean.

 

I am perfectly fine with you having your own opinion about what I or anyone else stated. I still think it was a great post. Have a good weekend;)

 

Maybe we quibble about word definitions. What I mean by resolving infidelity in a marriage is that the two in a marriage (can I at least presume on the number of people in a marriage?) solve how they cope with the fallout of someone being unfaithful.

 

And to me, it is vitally important that both parties in the marriage get to reflect on their options. The resolution cannot be successful in a manner respectful of injury and claims of reasons for the cheating until both the cheating spouse and the betrayed spouse know the facts of their situation.

[Trialbyfire]

You guys shold become therapists, your damn straight and honest all the time, good stuff. I completely agree with you, there are some grey areas in life but in the sordid world of infidelity there aren't any. Trouble erupts when we assume that some indeed exist, yeah? Kudos to you two!!

Well said.

 

It's interesting to hear all sides though. That's LS in a nutshell.

[mrmaximum]

I'm of a different school of thought. Particularly when one is in a relationship and the decisions and/or choices made are no longer just about the "individual," but have a profound effect on the dynamics of that relationship and the well-being of the 'other' person(s) involved. Then again, I'm very much a team player when it comes to relationships and I'm not of the "me, me, me" mindset.

 

I don't believe I have the right to make choices for my partner without his input or consent....And having to trick someone into wanting to be with me would make me feel more embarrassed and ashamed of myself than anything.

 

Are you a therapist because that was awesome, exactly the reaason why you should come clean if you 'mess up' it isn't about 'saving the SO', and you r right, that is something that you do with children not adult and NOT YOUR SPOUSE!! it's about doing the right thing by your SO and therefore the relationship. If that means that it ends, then it ends, so be it. I bow before your logic, Enigma!!

[Salicious Crumb]

First off SC I wanted say that I do agree that the person should be told.. I think the issue is the fact that the cheater is more concerned with themselves than with their partner.. they can hide behind the BS stance of not wanting to hurt their SO more..

 

You are right that they are also robbed of a Choice that was rightfully theirs to make.

 

On another note.. I disagree with your reasoning.. You seem like the type that your views haven't changed much in the years so I would guess that you would've dumped your soon to be wife if she had told you before you were married ??

 

That is correct.

 

With that being said I would like to point out that if your soon to be wife had told you the truth before you were married and you had dumped her.. like I think you might have... then it would also be true that you would NOT have the 2 kids that you have today..

 

That is correct...but if you are assuming that I didn't want my kids to be born..you are wrong.

Back then I would have had no knowledge of them. So I should say, if I had known back then would I have dumped her?...you bet.

 

Would I go back in time and change it....no, because I now have two beautiful kids.

 

I can also tell that you love your kids more than anything.. WELL ??

they are your kids today because she didn't tell you...

 

Yes, but back then I have no knowledge of having any kids...so I wouldn't have kept her thinking, "but gee...I could have beautiful kids with her."

 

 

so my original point stands....the betrayed deserve to know so they can have a choice.

[InaPanic]

This is kind of the point I was trying to make earlier. I'm of the opinion that it's actually the "remorseful cheater" who is the MOST in need of forgiveness and acceptance. The remorseful cheater is filled with self-loathing every time s/he interacts in what might earlier have been a positive way before the infidelity occurred. They can't reestablish REAL emotional intimacy because they're fully aware of a debt which needs paying before they can feel worthy of that closeness. They're no longer on equal footing with their partner.

 

Enigma is 100% correct... (although I'm never surprised by it ) ... in the idea that the remorseful cheater has disappointed himself. He's not the guy he thought he was. His virtue is stained. And somehow, he's got to come to terms with that and redeem himself.

 

It's an act of compassion, love, and acceptance when we stand behind him while he faces the 'man in the mirror'. In this, we help him to carry his burdens. We allow him to pay his "debt" and be redeemed, an equal more in the relationship. We prove to him that he is indeed worthy of love so he can love himself again.

 

Not everyone is deserving of a second chance. But the ones who are, can make us glad we gave that chance to them. The genuinely remorseful cheater is looking for ways to fix the mess he's made, as well as to address the lack of coping skills that opened him up to cheating to begin with. His burden is heavy if he has to carry it alone.

 

 

 

 

 

(.... Thanks for the kind words, MrMax. )

 

 

Wow, ladyjane....i think you just explained me better than i could have. you have ....left me speechless. i think that's exactly the way i feel, like i'm no longer an equal partner but someone much lower & more dispicable. absolutely not worthy.

 

i'm just trying to take in what you just said because i think there is so much to it.

[4whatItsWorth]

I'd rather know. I'd want to know I was living with a two-timing jerk or not. If someone was keeping that from me I'd believe he was awesome even after betraying me. Which he would not be.

[Salicious Crumb]

I'd rather know. I'd want to know I was living with a two-timing jerk or not. If someone was keeping that from me I'd believe he was awesome even after betraying me. Which he would not be.

 

Amen to that.

[amerikajin]

This is difficult to say, but what percentage of affairs didn't have some serious warning signs beforehand? I acknowledge that sometimes, you just end up marrying someone who totally leads a double life or was very sneaky at getting away with something, only to be found out later. But don't we usually have some heads-up here that something's not right in the marriage beforehand?