Remember me?

[goodmom]

I am the poor sap whose husband had an affair with a woman he met in a theatre group. I discovered this by some suspicious emails four months ago.

 

I still have been struggling --we both are I think. I have doubted all along that he broke off all contact with the woman. As a matter of fact, I know he did not--still emails and I don't know about telephone.

 

We were gone all day today to HIS grandmother's funeral out of town. I got the mail when we came home and the notice of the new theatre production came today--which he is in. You will never guess who else is in the cast. The OW. He has been going to practice for several weeks now--and not one time did he tell me. He waited for me to get it in the mail. There are two more weeks of daily practice and several performances in March. I confronted him as much as I could with two teenagers in the house. He told me he says Hi to her and keeps walking.

 

I am too upset right now to even cry. My first thought is to email her. At this point I do not care how he feels about that. My second thought is to start sitting in on play practice. I want her to see me.

 

I said in previous posts that I was drowning. Today I have drowned. I thought he was supposed to be making me feel safe and secure in this relationship. I was wrong.

[Ladyjane14]

Of course I remember you Goodmom.

I just had a quick review of your other thread too. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t105990/

 

You know, I think one of the problems that you've had is that you were never willing to sacrifice the marriage if need be in order to maintain your boundaries. If your boundary is, "I am NOT willing to share my husband with an OW"... then you can't be wishy-washy about it. He has to KNOW in no uncertain terms that he can't stay with you and still mess around with her. This clarifies his choices.

 

Maybe the reason you didn't want to draw that line in the sand was that you were afraid he might choose the OW if you forced him to the ultimatum. I can't blame you for your anxiety on that score, because he's shown you how fogged out he is and you've seen first-hand how he's rewritten the marital history to suit his rationalizations. It's a scary place to be when YOU are the one who's more invested.

 

But honey, so much of this comes down to you. Are you willing to allow him to be in the driver's seat of YOUR life? He's not the only one with choices you know.

 

If it were me, I think what I'd do is play it cool as if I believed his story. Then, I would pull out all the stops to catch him red-handed. We talked about continuing to investigate on your last thread and I recommended against it at the time. But... if the affair partners are still in contact, then the affair is still underfoot regardless of if they're having sexual relations or not. The effect is still damaging to the marriage and prevents recovery. That changes the landscape.

 

I know you were considering a keylogger at one point, did you put one on his PC yet? You might also consider a voice-activated recorder in his car. Make sure you get a quiet model without flashing lights. I believe I would either follow him (or have him followed) to his rehearsals. If you do it yourself, borrow a friend's car. Remember to have camera equipment on standby in case you find an opportunity to photograph them. Again, beware of flashing light.

 

Don't go with him though. You need to act like you believe him and like you trust his story. Give him some rope to hang himself with, otherwise you're going to be dealing with this mess for YEARS.

 

Now, I'll tell you why I would do all that... Because I would use all that to skin him in a divorce settlement if I could. And... I'd ruin them both socially in 'scorch-the-earth' type exposure. Vindictive much? Sure, there's that... a fringe benefit so to speak.

But more importantly... in the long run, you won't have this guy's full attention until you rub his LIES on his nose. After that, there's a small percentage of opportunity for him to learn to live his life in an honest way. Because he'll understand finally that the onus is on him to PROVE himself if he wants his marriage intact.

 

In the meantime, if it turns out that the contact is innocent, albeit stubborn and misguided... you'll know that too. If that's the case, new boundaries will have to be established. There's no room for an OW in your marriage. Your relationship cannot survive continued contact because of the damage it does to YOU. You are half that partnership. When one is damaged, BOTH are.

 

Sometimes you have to be willing to abandon a relationship in order to have a small opportunity in saving it. A faulty foundation has to be torn down before you can build again, right? I'll be honest, the percentage on recovery is probably very small. The most likely scenario when you dig your heels in is that he'll leave. You need to be prepared for that. But... if it's not a relationship based on equality, with each partner as highly prioritized as the other, would you still want it?

 

My advice to you... continue Plan A until you catch him out, then Plan B with alacrity.

[sb129]

Goodmom, I just read your first thread, and after reading todays post, I think your H is a rat.

 

I can't believe he is still associating with the OW... That suggests to me that he is a selfish manipulative liar.

Whether he is still sleeping with her is irrelevant- he knew how you would react, yet he totally disregarded your feelings and went ahead doing whatever suitd him.

And he is trying to engineer it so that you look bad.

 

DON'T contact the OW. It will not achieve anything.

 

DO think very seriously about how you want this to go- if you let it go now, you are as good as giving him the message he can get away with whatever he likes.

 

Get dome evidence, get an attorney, and get rid of the scumbag.

 

I am sorry to hear about your story. But you deserve better.

[goodmom]

This morning after our children were in the car to go to church, I came back in the house and asked him what time play practice was today and how many hours was he going to spend with his girlfriend. He told me she is not his girlfriend. He said he had nothing to do with her being in the cast--that she came on two weeks into the play. One of his best friends, who she is now dating, told her there was a part open. I lost it and told him that if he really cared about how I felt, he would have sat me down weeks ago and told me she was in the play. I also told him this proves to me that he has been having contact with her all along, that he might not be sleeping with her, but that they have been having email and cell phone contact. I asked him to prove me wrong by showing me his emails and cell phone. He walked out of the room.

 

What really freaks me out is that we have socialized with this best friend and ANOTHER woman in the past weeks. He goes on trips with this best friend. Maybe the OW can go along next time and they can share her. YECHHHHH!

 

I have been hurt and sad the past few months. Now I am mad. I tried to download a keylogger onto the computer this afternoon and because my husband has made himself the Administrator on our system, I can't.

 

One last note. He has not gone to church with us in several months. I guess the guilt is just too much.

[whichwayisup]

One of his best friends, who she is now dating,

 

So, not only is she IN the play, and they'll have contact, they probably have some contact because she is seeing one of his bestfriends??? Uhmm, that's just plain WEIRD. Does the bestfriend KNOW that she was the OW??? Or is that just a "cover". I hate to put idea's into your head, but man, and now reading that he made himself admin on the computer, you can't check up on him....Why did he do that so you can't install anything? He should give you the password...Something is up, and you need to find out. Hate to say it, but it doesn't look good. Seems he's done NOTHING to make things better, or try to regain your trust in him...INstead he is doing the opposite. His behaviour and the fact he isn't willing to BE an open book to you is another BIG RED FLAG. I am sorry...

 

Start talking to a lawyer, I would if I were in your shoes...He isn't learning from his past mistakes and choices. At all!

[sb129]

Goodmom, it doesn't matter whether he is guilty or not anymore.

 

He is NOT treating you the way a wife should be treated. He is being evasive, and acting like you are paranoid about nothing, not to mention the level or disrepect.

 

You need to be more assertive. HE is holding all the cards right now, and he knows it.

 

Bust his balls.

 

Is he worth keeping?

It doesn't sound like it.

[silktricks]

I have been hurt and sad the past few months. Now I am mad. I tried to download a keylogger onto the computer this afternoon and because my husband has made himself the Administrator on our system, I can't.

 

What kind of system is it? If it's an XP home edition, boot it up in safe mode and you can change the Administrator password, or better yet, simply make yourself an administrator too (then he won't know you've done anything)

[Trialbyfire]

Does the bestfriend KNOW that she was the OW??? Or is that just a "cover".

Ba da boom. Exactly my question. I would contact the best friend under the context that you want to attend rehearsals together. I mean a good wife and a good b/f are always interested in what their significant others are doing, aren't they?

 

If the best friend goes, huh? You have your answer.

[goodmom]

Thanks for the computer advice. I will try that.

 

I asked my husband if this best friend knows that he dating the OW. He said he doesn't talk about that kind of stuff with his friend. (I used to work in an office that had thirteen men--I know men talk about that kind of stuff.)

 

The theatre was always "our" thing. Whenever there was a new production, we would see it and go to dinner. When my husband got more involved, we met some really wonderful people. Now I feel that he took that away from me, too.

[sb129]

Oh Goodmom, I am so mad for you. You sound like a really nice woman, and your husband is totally taking the p***.

 

 

He doesn't deserve all the slack you are giving him.

[Trialbyfire]

Thanks for the computer advice. I will try that.

 

I asked my husband if this best friend knows that he dating the OW. He said he doesn't talk about that kind of stuff with his friend. (I used to work in an office that had thirteen men--I know men talk about that kind of stuff.)

 

The theatre was always "our" thing. Whenever there was a new production, we would see it and go to dinner. When my husband got more involved, we met some really wonderful people. Now I feel that he took that away from me, too.

Then take it back. Contact the friend and make arrangements to go to rehearsals together. Imagine what might be running through both your husband's head and the OW's head, seeing the two of you together in the audience.

[goodmom]

I have thought about just showing up at practices. I even copied down his schedule. I do not want to see her. The thought makes my physically ill. I told him tonight that I will not come to see him in play. Looking at the two of them together and imaging what happened is too painful. He said he accepts my decision. I also asked him not to attend the cast party.

 

He will have daily contact with her for the next 24 days.

 

He has yet to acknowledge any pain this has caused me.

[Ladyjane14]

He will have daily contact with her for the next 24 days.

 

He has yet to acknowledge any pain this has caused me.

 

When you stand by and allow it... you are giving him tacit permission to see her. You are agreeing with the behavior. There is NO boundary set. You have not told him in no uncertain terms... "No, I will NOT share my husband."

 

I'm going to be honest with you. I would have left this clown the MINUTE I figured out that he wasn't sorry. My pride would've demanded it. And if it meant going right to Plan D (seeking divorce), I'd have done it without hesitation. The Dr. Philism applies... It's better to be healthy alone than sick with someone else.

 

If your husband was in any way remorseful, he wouldn't be anywhere near that OW. He wouldn't be willing to hurt you anymore than he already has. And if his marriage meant something to him, he would choose recovering it over some sad-ass amateur play.

 

But he's not been asked to make a CHOICE. And I think it's because you're afraid to hold his feet to the fire, afraid that he'll choose the OW over his wife and family. Well, guess what? ... HE DID exactly that when he lied to you about being in contact with her.

 

If the boundary was NO CONTACT then he crossed it. Not only did he lie about it, but apparently there's still not going to be any consequences for it.

 

Now, I'll be damned if I'd lower my dignity enough to be going to his rehearsals, policing my territory. I can't watch my husband 24/7. So if I can't trust him to do the right thing on any given day, then I can't trust him AT ALL. As I said earlier, if I bothered to follow him, it would only be because I wanted enough evidence to hang his ass in divorce court.

 

I wish I could make you understand that you're trying to save something that is essentially worthless. In emotional terms, your marriage means NOTHING if your spouse is willing to continually HURT you. As it stands today... he's so self-absorbed that he doesn't care if his actions cause you pain or not.

 

Allowing the WS behavior is NOT a viable option. He still doesn't seem to understand what he did to you. The marriage cannot be recovered fully until he does. He can't EARN his way back to emotional intimacy unless he acknowledges a need to do so. He can't make restitution if he feels ENTITLED.

 

Let me ask you a question... Was there something that YOU did during the marriage that makes you feel like you deserved to be cheated on?

It seems to me like he's not the ONLY one who feels like he's "entitled" to treat you any way he pleases. I think maybe you're signing off on that for some reason.

 

My best advice to you at this point is to see an attorney. Find out where you stand financially so you know your options. Freeing yourself from the fear of being alone will help put you in a position where you're more comfortable taking action.

 

 

 

(p.s. You know, MY husband wouldn't even consider doing some kind of sh*t like that to me. He KNOWS that come opening night... I'd be on the sidewalk in a sandwich-board plastered with OW's booby-pics sent to my HUSBAND, and passing out hand-outs of their filthy e-mail conversations to the audience. )

[tommyr]

I gotta agree with the others on here who are telling you in no uncertain terms to MAKE HIM CHOOSE its either YOU or its HER (ie, if he doesn't immediately drop out of the play and stop ALL forms of contact with her, then its clear he choses HER).

 

I tried to download a keylogger onto the computer this afternoon and because my husband has made himself the Administrator on our system, I can't.

 

Google for "hardware keylogger" and you will see some tiny devices that dont require any software (or Adminstrator access) to capture keystrokes. Treat this as forensic evidence for your possible Divorce proceedings.

[goodmom]

I have allowed his behavior to continue because I wanted to trust him. I wanted to believe that he was choosing me. He has been lying to me and I have been lying to myself.

 

I have had esteem issues and I have allowed him to fully take advantage of that for twenty some years.

 

I knew Saturday when I saw her name on the play roster that I would not be able to recover from this. In some way, this betrayal hurts more than finding out there was an OW.

[Ladyjane14]

I have had esteem issues and I have allowed him to fully take advantage of that for twenty some years.

 

So... what are you gonna do about that, sweetie???

What action will you take that'll have a positive effect on your self esteem? THIS is where you can climb into the driver's seat and start working on YOU.

 

I can't remember if you've sought IC (individual counseling) yet? If not, it might be a pretty good thing right about now to have somebody you can share all this with in a detailed way. I think you'll feel alot better if you can develop your self-confidence.

[goodmom]

I do realize I need IC. I have not told a soul about this. I did not want it to be the white elephant in the room. I guess it doesn't matter much any more, does it?

 

I also ordered a keylogger. It will be delivered to my office tomorrow.

 

Thanks, all.

[goodmom]

Another update from the poor sap. Yesterday when I was cleaning the kitchen counter, I moved a pile of papers of WS. A scrap of some web addresses fell out and I had an AH HAH moment--an idea of what he might be using as a password. Today I was able to sign on to his cell phone account and print 12 months worth of calls. As happy as that made me, I also discovered that he has been having cell phone contact with the OW since I discovered the affair in October--an average of twenty calls a month. The most recent was two days ago.

 

I also was able to sign on to a shopping site he uses and found several jewelry items he has purchased since August and had sent to his office. The last purchase was the week before Valentine's Day. You are all correct to assume I am not dripping in new jewels.

 

What is so sad about this situtation is that he can still look me in the eye and say he has had no contact with her. I almost feel sorry for him.

 

I have not confronted him with my newfound information. It is hidden in a cookbook. I need to get my ducks in a row.

[whichwayisup]

Go talk to a lawyer, do what you can to gather as much info as you can and most of all DO NOT HAVE SEX with him anymore....Just act like nothing is going on until you're fully prepared to boot his ass out of the house.

 

What a fool. Really, it's his loss not yours. Don't feel sorry for him, he KNOWS wtf he's doing is wrong but doesn't care. Gawwd I wanna smack him upside the head for ya!!

 

I am sorry that you have to go through all this. Take care of you, and definately do not blame yourself for his bad choices!

[Ladyjane14]

Awwww... I'm sorry to hear that, kiddo.

It's the most awful feeling in the world to have the WS/Alien underfoot, looking for all the world like the husband you knew and loved, but somehow a stranger.

 

I'm with WWIU, it's time to see an attorney. You'll feel better when you know your options. It relieves some of the anxiety when you've mapped out the worst case scenario.

 

Did you give any more consideration to setting up IC? I imagine you could REALLY use some one-on-one support right about now. It might be a good thing to have someone you can share all this with in detail.

[goodmom]

I have decided that today I am going to ask him to leave. I need space to think, and I can't do it with him here. He can go to the OW, to his office, or to his parent's who are away for the winter. What is so funny about the last development is that he is mad at me!!

 

I am mourning the loss of the man I married. The affair hurts, but the fact he could continue to cause me such pain is hard to bear. I spent a long time going over his cell phone bills last night. I don't even care about the calls before I found out about the affair. It is how many came after I found out about the OW and asked him to stop.

 

I am sure alot of this pain I am feeling is because he didn't choose me. I keep thinking of a line from Grey's Anatomy where Meredith says to Derrick, "Choose me, pick me!"

 

Anyway, I knew I would be able to recover from the affair. I can't recover from the continued betrayal.

[whichwayisup]

It's like he hasn't suffered any consquences of his actions...He hasn't taken responsibility for anything either.

 

I am sorry for the pain you're feeling, but you know what? You're going to be okay! May take some time to heal, but you will come out of this a stronger woman.

 

He isn't the man you married, that is for sure. IF he was, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing - Continuing to sneak around behind your back. He'd be making efforts to prove his love to you and gain your love/trust again. He's done NOTHING but live selfishly.

 

Take care of yourself too. Try to make time for a hot bath before bed so you'll feel less stressed. Talk to family and close friends too, to help you cope through this.

[sb129]

Goodmom, sorry to hear about the continued betrayal.

 

But good to hear you aren't going to stand for it.

 

Good luck.

[goodmom]

For those of you who have followed my story--I swear I couldn't make this stuff up. Today a woman at church told me she saw WS in his play last night. In his "actor" bio in the program, he dedicated his performance to me. Almost brings a tear to my eye.