For the Guys: A Reality Check

[superconductor]

The matchmaking game used to be so much simpler.

 

If a guy had a reasonable income, wasn't particularly horrific to look at, and was a good provider, then he could expect to find a wife that would keep the home in a semblance of order, raise the kids and make sure dinner was on the table when he got home from working himself into an early coronary.

 

Alas, post-WWII, things have changed.

 

Rosie the Riveter spent the war years in the factory making munitions, aircraft and tanks because the guys were overseas getting shot at. Once the war ended, Rosie slid back into pretty much the state that she was before: a wife, mother, cook, maid, lover.

 

But she never entirely forgot the freedom that work and her own income brought.

 

Men were still required to do a lot of the work, because of their physical strength. But as technology progressed, men found that more and more jobs needed brains instead of brawn. Women found this too, and began to enroll into university in droves.

 

Now, men are increasingly finding themselves on the sidelines at both the office and the pursuit of a romantic partner.

 

Face it, fellas: Women don't see men anymore as a meal ticket. No longer are women unfulfilled if they don't have a husband/partner. Men are, more and more, becoming an option in a woman's life.

 

The only - and I do mean ONLY - time a man is really needed is for procreation. And with the advances in in-vitro fertilization, that's not destined to last for long either.

 

Much of this idea has to do with the portrayal of men in the media as well. Whether media is reflecting social norms, or creating them is relatively unimportant, but the fact is that the guy in the house is now presented as a bumbling fool, not too bright, single-minded and desperately trying to stay out of trouble. Witness Tim Allen in Home Improvement, Homer Simpson in The Simpsons, Jim Belushi in According to Jim, Ray Romano, Brad Garret and Peter Boyle in Everyone Loves Raymond, or Peter Griffin in Family Guy.

 

Even Bill Cosby in The Cosby Show, as the successful Dr Huxtable, was constantly being harangued by his beautiful and long-suffering (and also successful) wife about everything from raising of their children to taking out the garbage.

 

University campuses are rife with anti-male bias as well. Witness the explosion of courses and degrees in Women's Studies. But, currently, there is no such thing as studies of maleness. As well, girls and women are demanding - and getting - access to men's only sports teams, clubs, etc. But men continue to be excluded from women-only sports.

 

So, the sad but inescapable fact is that men are disposable.

 

They don't need us anymore.

 

To try and get a handle on this, social phenomena like Sensitive New Age Guys (SNAGs) arose, were momentarily accepted by women until they saw them as spineless wimps. Shortly thereafter, metrosexuals made themselves known, but they too were rejected soon enough because of their narcissism. Finally, the post-modern man, who will be anything she wants him to be, appeared on the scene, but were again rejected because they were simply too much like women, and came across as indecisive, clingy, even flaky.

 

The latest incarnation is the anti-hero. It's a throwback to a time when "men were men" in the Clint Eastwood/John Wayne sense. They're tough, they hide their feelings, they'd rather be alone than put up with an erratic or pushy partner.

 

But why have men morphed so much?

 

Because, sadly, women have always defined the paradigms of maleness.

 

We've changed our personas because that's what women want (or, at least, that's what they say they want, until they change their mind).

 

And where has it gotten us?

 

Nowhere.

 

We lag behind in academics. We're more likely to commit murder or suicide. We die earlier. We have more trouble being without a partner than our female counterparts. More of us are in prison. We're more likely to become addicted. Gender-based affirmative action guidelines means we get passed over for positions because of artificial quotas for female employees. We're more likely to be held accountable for support payments but not have access to our kids.

 

So what do we, as men, do about it?

 

Every journey starts with a single step.

 

For me, personally, I no longer worry about what a potential partner may think, or how they perceive me. I am what I am, and I refuse to play by anyone else's rules.

 

If that means that I go without sex for a while, then so be it.

 

Comments?

[stoopid_guy]

So what do we, as men, do about it?

 

Just like the dinosaur; Adapt, or bow out of the gene pool.

[a4a]

Men are optional. Not a cut down but I don't NEED one.

 

 

Men don't offer too much to women that they cannot get themselves in general. money, home, family....... don't need a man for that.

 

Now wanting a man is a different story. Maybe men need to make themselves into something women want..... honor, well kempt, caring, and willing to put effort into a relationship with a woman instead of relying on the old attractions that men mastered.... money, provider, protector.

[Moose]

Take your post, and mix in society breakdown and decreased morals in the masses.....what a mess heh?

 

I'm thankful for my stay at home wife and family......

[a4a]

Take your post, and mix in society breakdown and decreased morals in the masses.....what a mess heh?

 

I'm thankful for my stay at home wife and family......

 

the breakdown of society can be blamed on women that are no longer dependent upon men to provide for them? Is that what you are saying?

 

I think the breakdown of society has more to do with people thinking they are entitled to something they did not earn. Lack of disipline and total lack of ethics, total lack of self respect.......and lack of honor.

[superconductor]

the breakdown of society can be blamed on women that are no longer dependent upon men to provide for them? Is that what you are saying?

I don't think Moose is saying that social breakdown is because of women. I think he's just pointing out social breakdown in general, of which women are a part, but of course men propagate this too. Just look at the lies and deceit oozing forth like slime from the current White House... but maybe that's another thread.

 

*edited to add*

 

Of course, it's not too much of a stretch to say that women entering the workforce in droves have caused the decline in real income. Basic supply and demand economics: more supply = lower value.

[a4a]

I don't think Moose is saying that social breakdown is because of women. I think he's just pointing out social breakdown in general, of which women are a part, but of course men propogate this too. Just look at the lies and deceit oozing forth like slime from the current White House... but maybe that's another thread.

 

Dishonoring a nation. yep..... no honor coming from there either.

 

I did not say that moose was saying that I used one of these "?"

[Great Gazoo]

A simple answer would be that men just have to realize that they can also live without women, also good luck with that

[stoopid_guy]

Nah, men don't need women, any more than women need men. Now, what we want is "a-whole-nuther" matter.

 

Every man wants something different, every woman wants something different. The trick is finding someone who's "wants" are compatable with our own and what we can/will give.

[a4a]

A simple answer would be that men just have to realize that they can also live without women, also good luck with that

 

It could be done if all men would just turn gay and most women like gay men. So there is a fine solution

[a4a]

Nah, men don't need women, any more than women need men. Now, what we want is "a-whole-nuther" matter.

 

Every man wants something different, every woman wants something different. The trick is finding someone who's "wants" are compatable with our own and what we can/will give.

 

 

I think many women are starting not to even want to bother with men.

Too much hassle and no need for them. Not all but seeing more women like this, including myself.

[SarahRose]

If you hear people talk about their dads from that 50s generation, things weren't so rosey. They may have been great providers but they stunk as husbands and fathers. Distant, wasn't able to talk him, wasn't around much, are just a couple of things I've heard people say about their fathers.

 

I think that women expect a little more from men these days. We want a friend and a companion and a little romance(like what he did in the courting phase) Women are fed up with the lazy entitled man who has a wife who works just as hard as he does but for some reason he things he is entitled to coming home from work and loafing in front the tv while she does all the chores and child rearing duties.

 

I think most woman would fall over from a coronary if their husband came home and did a few substantial chores on his own without having to be told.

 

Men get lazy with their appearance too. Bathe, work out, and wear some decent clothes!

[KittenMoon]

Wow- I never knew how horrible it was that men were suddenly on equal footing as women. You poor babies.

 

Maybe we should think of going back to the days where a woman waited quietly at home with a martini for her husband after his long day at work and subsequent visits to his mistress, golfing on weekend, etc. Knwoing she would have to smile and take whatever he dished out because she was rarely able to get a decent position even if she was educated, etc etc.

-----

 

Seriously- this whole thing works both ways. Some days I do long for the ease of the "old days", because I would have already found a stable, well-employed man and would most likely be married to him now. BUT- for good or ill- as a young woman I was raised to not only be a wife, but a partner. An equal partner at that.

 

Guys- treat a woman like an equal partner, respect her, and listen to her feelings, and you will get the same treatment back (and if you don't, ditch her). Accept each others faults- that's all a good relationship really comes down to right? If it wasn't, any person could have found a dozen husbands/wives by now.

[westernxer]

...most women like gay men.

 

Because gay men aren't trying to score with them, unless they're shopping together.

[KittenMoon]

Because gay men aren't trying to score with them.

 

Last weekend, on the way to my cousins wedding, my mother told me to give up and find myself a nice gay man to marry and have affairs on the side.

[a4a]

Because gay men aren't trying to score with them.

 

 

and many have exceptional taste...... and they actually do care when helping to pick out new fabric for the sofa reupholstery. :lmao:

[stoopid_guy]

I think many women are starting not to even want to bother with men.

Too much hassle and no need for them. Not all but seeing more women like this, including myself.

You hear men talking the same way, just giving up because women are more trouble than they're worth.

 

Part of the problem with a thread like this is that folks want to gategorize men and women. I'm a man, but don't have the audicity to try to say what men want. Again, everyone wants something different...

[lindya]

Face it, fellas: Women don't see men anymore as a meal ticket. No longer are women unfulfilled if they don't have a husband/partner. Men are, more and more, becoming an option in a woman's life.....

 

 

So, the sad but inescapable fact is that men are disposable.

 

They don't need us anymore.

 

So from what you're saying, a man has two options. He can have a woman who is financially dependent and views him as a meal ticket, or he can feel "disposable" with a woman who has made the choice to be with him.

 

Assuming that's what you're saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong)...why does the fact that some women feel they have options render men disposable?

 

You might believe that feminism has made life easy and wonderful for women, and crap for men....but that would ignore the fact that many women perceive feminism as something that has simply increased the number of onerous expectations that are placed on their shoulders.

 

Don't forget, also, the ways in which many men have benefited from feminism. Having working wives reduces the pressure to be a high earner and has made life more comfortable for many men. Professional women who work full time by and large continue to bear the bulk of responsibility for child care matters. Although we supposedly live in a sexually liberated age, double standards still abound....and the pressures on women to look a certain way seem to be ever increasing in line with the availability of plastic surgery.

 

How does a woman juggle these demands - and, in the unlikely event that she does meet all the expectations of what a modern woman should be, how does she prevent the man in her life from feeling castrated as a result of her success and independence?

 

In some cases, I guess, she doesn't. She opts to cut out of her life the thing that is most likely to create trouble, stress and emotional confusion. She chooses not to be with the kind of man who will regard her very existence, and her ability to be happy with or without him, as cause for castration anxieties.

[a4a]

You hear men talking the same way, just giving up because women are more trouble than they're worth.

Part of the problem with a thread like this is that folks want to gategorize men and women. I'm a man, but don't have the audicity to try to say what men want. Again, everyone wants something different...

 

yep I do hear men say it too......but more women in my experience.

 

 

OMG..... you can't speak for all men? Geeze I thought a penis meant that you knew how all humans with a penis think I thought perhaps the penis contained some sort of organized telepathic organ so all men did know exactly how all other men felt.... :p

Like some sort or telepathic oneness antenna?

[stoopid_guy]

OMG..... you can't speak for all men? Geeze I thought a penis meant that you knew how all humans with a penis think I thought perhaps the penis contained some sort of organized telepathic organ so all men did know exactly how all other men felt.... :p

Like some sort or telepathic oneness antenna?

Nah, my penis can't even read my mind...He tries to make all kinds of decisions that I think are stoopid.

 

Oh well, what he lacks in brains, he makes up for in enthusiasm.

[Great Gazoo]

 

Don't forget, also, the ways in which many men have benefited from feminism. Having working wives reduces the pressure to be a high earner and has made life more comfortable for many men. Professional women who work full time by and large continue to bear the bulk of responsibility for child care matters.

 

Now that you mention it this does sound better, now I have to excuse myself because I have to go try and find something to eat in house because the wife is at work making more money than me, oh how Ironic

[lindya]

Now that you mention it this does sound better, now I have to excuse myself because I have to go try and find something to eat in house because the wife is at work making more money than me, oh how Ironic

 

 

Maybe she's making more money than you because she's less mired in negativity and babyish self pity.

[Outcast]

Face it, fellas: Women don't see men anymore as a meal ticket. No longer are women unfulfilled if they don't have a husband/partner. Men are, more and more, becoming an option in a woman's life.

 

Gee what a shame. Instead of wanting a banking machine made of flesh around, women seek men who inspire them and interest them. Women are looking for partners and companions rather than automatons who disappear most of the time and appear only to hand over the cheques. A tragedy for sure. After all, 'fulfillment' is about having a full belly, not about finding a connection on emotional and intellectual levels, right?

 

The only - and I do mean ONLY - time a man is really needed is for procreation. And with the advances in in-vitro fertilization, that's not destined to last for long either.

 

Because, after all, why opt for being chosen for your good qualities and appreciated for the person you are when you could be part of a relationship simply because you're a sperm dispenser and fuse-changer? So much less pleasant to be wanted than to be needed.

 

Isn't it just a tad self-abnegating to long for the days when people hooked up, per your description, basically to use each other rather than be pleased that women are much less likely to glom onto you because they can't fend for themselves economically?

[magichands]

In some cases, I guess, she doesn't. She opts to cut out of her life the thing that is most likely to create trouble, stress and emotional confusion. She chooses not to be with the kind of man who will regard her very existence, and her ability to be happy with or without him, as cause for castration anxieties.

Astute analysis. I think it comes down to trust - that someone cares about you so much that you always know that you're appreciated. Even for the silly quirks.

[KittenMoon]

Although we supposedly live in a sexually liberated age, double standards still abound....and the pressures on women to look a certain way seem to be ever increasing in line with the availability of plastic surgery.

 

How does a woman juggle these demands - and, in the unlikely event that she does meet all the expectations of what a modern woman should be, how does she prevent the man in her life from feeling castrated as a result of her success and independence?

 

Amen, sister!