I Don't Know What Happened

[stormywind]

Ok, several months ago this guy started flirting with me.. After talking to him a few times, I found out he was married.

From what he says, he's not too happily married, they don't sleep together, and haven't for 2 years, there's no affection, etc.... (I asked most of this---he didn't say it to convince me of anything and I'm aware the scenario where guys do that just so you know, I'm not clueless on that).

 

I do like him and if he were single, I'd date him, but he's not single so I've enjoyed having him as a friend since we really click. So, we've been friends and, except for a few times, it's mostly been in a business setting,such as taking a walk at lunch (we don't work together). He's cheered me up though during the bad times I've had lately.

 

However, one day he's distant, the next time I see him he's flirtatious. Today he told me that maybe we shouldn't talk anymore. (stupid me had to ask the question, based on him not returning my call).

 

He said that his wife and him talked last weekend and are trying to work things out for the kids, going to counseling, etc... and talking to me makes him feel guilty. This makes no sense because just earlier this week he was flirting with me again. (which would have been after their talk).

 

It's really bummed me out though. I meet a friend who has been someone I like hanging out with occasionally and who I can talk to easily and just like that he's gone.

 

Everyone will say to find new friends but he and I really clicked personality-wise.

 

I don't even know if his story is true or maybe he just got sick of me. Hell, I feel like I'm so friggin dispensible to people sometimes.

 

Just wondered what people thought of why he's acting this way---and all of a sudden.

[Merin]

Because he's Married.

 

Doesn't matter how well the two of you "Click"

He's trying to "Re~click" with his wife...

 

Talking to you makes him feel guilty, because you both know it isn't just friendship that is being persued.. His wife more than likely asked him to stop if he wants to save the marriage..

 

So.. yeah sorry, find someone else who is free to "Click" with you..

This guy isn't available, and he needs to keep his "Clicking" in check if he ever wants his wife to "Click" with him again.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally posted by Merin2

Because he's Married.

 

Doesn't matter how well the two of you "Click"

He's trying to "Re~click" with his wife...

 

Talking to you makes him feel guilty, because you both know it isn't just friendship that is being persued.. His wife more than likely asked him to stop if he wants to save the marriage..

 

So.. yeah sorry, find someone else who is free to "Click" with you..

This guy isn't available, and he needs to keep his "Clicking" in check if he ever wants his wife to "Click" with him again.

 

I agree with you.

 

 

 

Stormy...you may be thinking just "friends"...but i garantee you this guy is looking for more....he is looking for what is lacking in his marriage......affection, attention and SEX. Sounds like he has a conscience....and thats why he's being distant.....and maybe a little on the fence on the days he flirts....

 

IMHO...and it may be a little bias, so take it for what its worth. But a normal happily married man would not flirt and tell his new "female friend" of his no affection, no sex problems in his marriage UNLESS he was looking for someone to fulfill those needs.....

[iceprincess]

It seems like you don't know too much about this guy and you're correct, you don't even know if everything that he says is true. Technically he is still married so if I were you, I'd move on. It would be easier to find someone with no strings attached.

[stormywind]

He did try stuff but I didn't let it go too far. But it's really upset me that he treats me now like I'm dispensible. It seems like I'm just a playtoy to guys (or they try for it anyway) and then when they're tired of me, they just discard me. They don't act like I'm a human being with feelings. This has really upset me.

[Merin]

Originally posted by stormywind

He did try stuff but I didn't let it go too far. But it's really upset me that he treats me now like I'm dispensible. It seems like I'm just a playtoy to guys (or they try for it anyway) and then when they're tired of me, they just discard me. They don't act like I'm a human being with feelings. This has really upset me.

 

When a person is married and it isn't to YOU... then how far is to far to go?

 

I'm sorry that you got hurt... but in his mind, you knew he was married, you knew he wasn't really available and you stayed anyway... so IMHO you gave him the message that it was all okay with you that he was married, and you didn't have any expectations of him.

 

No one deserves to feel that they are dispensable.... but to prevent this from re occuring, don't get involved with a guy who is already married to someone else.

[Fran_H]

Originally posted by stormywind

It seems like I'm just a playtoy to guys (or they try for it anyway) and then when they're tired of me, they just discard me. They don't act like I'm a human being with feelings. This has really upset me.

 

Stormywind

 

It seems to me like you have a real problem with low self-esteem. I would say that the last place you want to be looking for love is with a married guy. If you think you feel bad now, wait until he has messed with your head for a few months or even years. Don't question why, just walk away from this experience and never look back. There's someone nice out there for you, someone who will treat you nicely and not just want to use you. You'll know when you meet the right one. In the meantime, remember, they can only use you if you allow youself to be used.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally posted by stormywind

He did try stuff but I didn't let it go too far. But it's really upset me that he treats me now like I'm dispensible. It seems like I'm just a playtoy to guys (or they try for it anyway) and then when they're tired of me, they just discard me. They don't act like I'm a human being with feelings. This has really upset me.

 

 

I feel for you....and I would be upset too. But dont beat yourself up, its a waste of energy. Dont let your mind wander on the bad things....FOCUS on the good things you have/are as a person. Be honest and truthful with everything you do and think. You will be amazed at how good you feel. And if you stay true and focused, you will find someone to love you for YOU.

 

 

About your comment of "human being with feelings"

 

I am in the process of MC with my wife. And after digging deep into myself and actually recognizing and "feeling" true feelings, i am amazed that I have made it this far in life without actually feeling things...does that make sence?....

 

anyway, from my MC sessions, I take what I am learning about my inner self and use it in my interpersonal relationships and use it to view other peoples interpersonal relationships. Simple amazing....the games people play with eachother without thought of what feelings are involved. I am finding that being truthful and honest with feelings is not a bad thing.....its a good thing......

[stormywind]

When a person is married and it isn't to YOU... then how far is to far to go?

 

Personally, I would say with kissing.

 

I'm sorry that you got hurt... but in his mind, you knew he was married, you knew he wasn't really available and you stayed anyway... so IMHO you gave him the message that it was all okay with you that he was married, and you didn't have any expectations of him.

 

I don't know what you mean. I wanted to be friends with him since we couldn't be more than that. Even if I didn't have any expectations of him, how did that justify his behavior towards me this week all of a sudden? (and why was he flirting with me this past Monday????)

[stormywind]

 

 

It seems to me like you have a real problem with low self-esteem. I would say that the last place you want to be looking for love is with a married guy. If you think you feel bad now, wait until he has messed with your head for a few months or even years.

 

Why? What happens?

 

Don't question why, just walk away from this experience and never look back. There's someone nice out there for you, someone who will treat you nicely and not just want to use you. You'll know when you meet the right one.

 

I don't click as well with the others I meet (which is why I wanted to still be friends with him). Or if I do, there are other things that aren't right. For instance, I've been on a few dates with this one guy and like him somewhat but his kids are very, very small and that's a big drawback. And finding someone I want to date (and who wants to date me) doesn't happen a lot either.

 

In the meantime, remember, they can only use you if you allow youself to be used.

 

I hope by that you mean that a person should walk away, not that they *caused* the other person to use them.

[Karlise13]

Well, I'm sorry you didn't see it coming.

 

Sounds hurtful and disappointing. I'm sure on a certain level HE'S disappointed to. He probably had fantasies about you, about leaving his marriage and starting over....who knows?

 

But the fact is, he made a decision to reconnect with his wife. This was probably a very heavy decision, especially if they have been having so much trouble for the past couple of years. He is probably experiencing many confusing, conflicting and painful emotions.

 

For him to be 'just friends' with you is probably impossible; he already had taken it past the point of platonic friendship by 'trying stuff' with you. The only right thing to do, if he really wants to fix a broken marriage, is to avoid you.

 

Sorry, but that's what it is.

 

Truly, you should not be using this experience as a measure of your self worth. This is a man with many distractions and who is in a lot of pain. He's not really emotional available enough to even get to know you deeply. His walking away has little to do with who you are or what you're worth.

 

Hold your head high and get back on the dating train. Best way to forget about someone is to get back in the swing of things.

 

I know it hurts now, but six months from now he will probably be a faded memory.

 

A year from now, you'll say to yourself "I don't know WHAT I was thinking!"

 

Time has a funny way of doing that.

[Merin]

Originally posted by stormywind

Personally, I would say with kissing.

 

You think kissing is okay when it's a guy who is married? Would you think that another woman kissing YOUR husband would be okay with you?

 

 

 

I don't know what you mean. I wanted to be friends with him since we couldn't be more than that. Even if I didn't have any expectations of him, how did that justify his behavior towards me this week all of a sudden? (and why was he flirting with me this past Monday????)

 

What I mean, is you obviously do and did have expectations of him. Otherwise you wouldn't be offended now that he has chosen to end the "friendship" The thing is, he isn't married to you.. so I'm pretty sure he doesn't feel he needs to justify anything to you.

 

Why was he flirting with you on Monday... because he has an interest in you. But regardless of his "interest" he isn't available period. He is MARRIED. He has told you he is working things out with his wife.

 

So the bottomline is this.. IF you wish to continue to persue this with him, then you do so knowing he is married, and knowing he doesn't feel he owes you anything.

[stormywind]

That was a good post.

 

 

Hold your head high and get back on the dating train. Best way to forget about someone is to get back in the swing of things.

 

I just started dating but I don't click with him as well--and that's the case way too often. That's why I wanted to have "him" at least as a friend. I don't find people I click with that well and with him, I clicked a lot. Plus he has so much going for him too and I don't see that a lot either and I admire it.

[stormywind]

 

I disagree with that. I have a male coworker who is a friend of mine. If he did this, I would be hurt as well. If any friend did this, I would feel hurt. I think that's normal. And I'm more sensitive than many people, so I feel it even more deeply. However, I still think it's normal for anyone to feel this way---even with just a friend.

 

 

Now, the fact that he did get physical with me does make the hurt greater. (to me anyway).

[stormywind]

You know, I can't tell if he's a good guy (since he feels guilt and is trying to work things out with his wife) or a bad guy (because of what he tried with me--and especially since he knew I was very vulnerable at the time.

[Merin]

Originally posted by stormywind

 

I disagree with that. I have a male coworker who is a friend of mine. If he did this, I would be hurt as well. If any friend did this, I would feel hurt. I think that's normal. And I'm more sensitive than many people, so I feel it even more deeply. However, I still think it's normal for anyone to feel this way---even with just a friend.

 

 

Now, the fact that he did get physical with me does make the hurt greater. (to me anyway).

 

Stormy, It seems to me that you were looking at this guy as more than just a friend.. you said in your orginal post "If he was single, he would be perfect" you've also said that the two of you kissed.. and although I know you also said you didn't think that was going "to far" in your opinion even though he is married.. I think you would feel far differently if it was YOUR husband kissing someone else..

 

You've also said that this guy has tried other things with you.. well let me ask you how many of your male friends "JUST FRIENDS" have kissed you? OR tried other things with you? How many of your other male friends have you thought "If only he was single he would be perfect?"

 

There is a difference between being "Just Friends" and being a "Friend with benefits"

 

Obviously when you are "Just Friends" with someone of course if they no longer wanted to offer you thier friendship you would be hurt and upset as to why they want to end the friendship when you feel you've done nothing wrong.. and yes I do feel that a FRIEND would owe you some kind of an explanation as to what's happened to make them no longer want your friendship.

 

However, hasn't this guy given you an explanation as to why he no longer can offer HIS friendship? What about what he OWES to his wife? Just because you're all good with the idea that kissing someone other than your spouse doesn't mean that she is. Obviously he wants more with you than JUST FRIENDS and he is trying to work things out with his wife.. so if you're as good of a friend to him as you say you are.. and since you feel he owes you something.. isn't it then fair to say that you owe him the room to respect that he is working on his marriage at this time and he doesn't feel he can remain in the friendship without hurting his marriage?

 

You say that your more sensitive than other people and feel it more deeply when you've been hurt.. well you know I've got to tell you that I imagine his wife is feeling whats been going on in the marriage pretty deeply as well.

 

When you're married, that other person is your family.. and you know I honestly believe that he owes his wife a helluva lot more than he has been giving regardless of the circumstance. IF you're unhappy in a marriage, then you either work it out and find resolution OR You get out and not hurt other people in the process. It isn't fair to her and it isn't fair to you.

 

Real Friends do not put thier friends into harms way to be hurt.

[stormywind]

 

Stormy, It seems to me that you were looking at this guy as more than just a friend.. you said in your orginal post "If he was single, he would be perfect"

 

Yes, I said I would have dated him--if he were single. But he wasn't.

 

 

you've also said that the two of you kissed.. and although I know you also said you didn't think that was going "to far" in your opinion even though he is married.. I think you would feel far differently if it was YOUR husband kissing someone else.. Just because you're all good with the idea that kissing someone other than your spouse doesn't mean that she is.

 

You keep saying that I think kissing is ok. Nowhere did I say that. In fact, you had asked where cheating begins and I said that I would think that kissing is where it begins.

 

 

Obviously he wants more with you than JUST FRIENDS and he is trying to work things out with his wife.. so if you're as good of a friend to him as you say you are.. and since you feel he owes you something.. isn't it then fair to say that you owe him the room to respect that he is working on his marriage at this time and he doesn't feel he can remain in the friendship without hurting his marriage?

 

And yes there's nothing wrong with working on his marriage, but he certainly wasn't thinking that when he was trying things with me--including kissing. My point is that I'm treated like something that can just be tossed aside when it's no longer convenient for him, someone who doesn't have feelings. What you're not realizing is that he's not the only one in this.

 

You say that your more sensitive than other people and feel it more deeply when you've been hurt.. well you know I've got to tell you that I imagine his wife is feeling whats been going on in the marriage pretty deeply as well.

 

When you're married, that other person is your family.. and you know I honestly believe that he owes his wife a helluva lot more than he has been giving regardless of the circumstance.

 

 

I'm not as obivious to this as you think. While I wasn't married, I lived with someone for several years and was cheated on.

 

 

IF you're unhappy in a marriage, then you either work it out and find resolution OR You get out and not hurt other people in the process. It isn't fair to her and it isn't fair to you.

 

He did mention that he had tried to work on things with his wife but nothing changed. Course now I wonder if anything that he said was true or not.

[Merin]

Originally posted by stormywind

Yes, I said I would have dated him--if he were single. But he wasn't.

 

All I was pointing out there, is that you looked at him as more than a friend even though he is married.

 

 

 

 

You keep saying that I think kissing is ok. Nowhere did I say that. In fact, you had asked where cheating begins and I said that I would think that kissing is where it begins.

 

Sorry, my bad. I misunderstood what you meant.

 

 

 

 

And yes there's nothing wrong with working on his marriage, but he certainly wasn't thinking that when he was trying things with me--including kissing. My point is that I'm treated like something that can just be tossed aside when it's no longer convenient for him, someone who doesn't have feelings. What you're not realizing is that he's not the only one in this.

 

I'm not blaming YOU for his behaviour. I DO realize he isn't the ONLY ONE IN THIS. You might be suprised to know that when it comes to blame, I put it ALL on HIM. He is the one who is married. HE is the one who promised his wife certain things. HE is the one who took those vows. So let me put this a different way.. when a married guy approached you, and HE is so willing to overlook the fact that he is married, so willing to overlook the fact that he made promises and took vows to another woman and is so willing to toss her aside because being married isn't convienient for him right now.. then you better stand by, because he will more than willing to do the same thing to YOU or anyone else he has an interest in.

 

 

 

 

I'm not as obivious to this as you think. While I wasn't married, I lived with someone for several years and was cheated on.

 

I was also cheated on Stormy and you know what I was married to him. I also divorced his sorry a** and funny because he so didn't want a divorce.. but he sure as he** wasn't thinking about what was good for ME when he was out doing his s***, and he wasn't thinking of the girl he was messing with when he was doing it.. he was thinking about HIM! He didn't want a divorce but I didn't want a guy who was so willing to s*** on me.

 

 

Who knows if what he said or says is true.. and regardless if anything has changed between he and his wife or not, fact remains he is married to her, and she has decided that she hasn't had enough of his crap.

 

I'm not out to get you Stormy and I'm saying this is your fault and poor him (blah!) I'm saying When a person can turn on the person they are suppose to love, stand by because they can and often will do it to you.

 

He did mention that he had tried to work on things with his wife but nothing changed. Course now I wonder if anything that he said was true or not.

[stormywind]

I'm not blaming YOU for his behaviour. I DO realize he isn't the ONLY ONE IN THIS. You might be suprised to know that when it comes to blame, I put it ALL on HIM. He is the one who is married. HE is the one who promised his wife certain things. HE is the one who took those vows. So let me put this a different way.. when a married guy approached you, and HE is so willing to overlook the fact that he is married, so willing to overlook the fact that he made promises and took vows to another woman and is so willing to toss her aside because being married isn't convienient for him right now.. then you better stand by, because he will more than willing to do the same thing to YOU or anyone else he has an interest in.

 

Do you think he did that to his wife? In other words, is he a good guy because he is trying to work on things or is he a bad guy for what he tried? I guess I'm confused on that.

 

 

I was also cheated on Stormy and you know what I was married to him.

 

I could already tell you had been. I too, kicked mine out but spent way too many years before I did.

 

and regardless if anything has changed between he and his wife or not, fact remains he is married to her, and she has decided that she hasn't had enough of his crap.

 

Due to my experiences with others, I'm cautious when I hear certain things. He's a wine collector. One time he no longer had his collection because one time his wife was mad at him and started drinking it without telling him.

At one time, I used to hear these kind of stories and say: "Wow--how mean!" But due to some experiences, now when I hear these kind of stories, I think: Hmmmm.......wonder what prompted her to do that....?

 

I'm not out to get you Stormy and I'm saying this is your fault and poor him (blah!) I'm saying When a person can turn on the person they are suppose to love, stand by because they can and often will do it to you.

 

That's the part I don't get---if he's a good guy or bad guy.

[Merin]

I think it isn't a matter if he is a "Good Guy" OR a "Bad Guy" I don't know him at all.

 

I can only go based upon what you've said regarding him. Perhaps he is a "Good" Person who has made "Bad" choices.

 

Regarding my marriage.. my marriage and divorce wasn't "typical" or "standard" by any stretch of the imagination. My Ex~Husband did not seek out an affair.. he came to me and asked me to begin with to engage in sexual activity with one of his friends and himself, I wasn't down for that and told him so. Then he asked me if we could have an "Open marriage" because he wanted to explore more sexualy experiences involving other people. Again, I wasn't down for bringing other people into our bedroom period. My Ex~Husband decided to persue this anyway against my wishes.. he never told the few people he got sexually involved with that he was just unhappy in his marriage, or that his wife didn't understand him ect. that a lot of married guys do (much like the MM who had been persuing you has done) and to my amazement they didn't seem to care that he was married and each one of them thought they could "change him" and remain "friends" with him.. it got to be a very messed up situation to say the least.

 

I kept telling him, this was EXACTLY why a "Open Marriage" doesn't work. The women he was intimate with all said they were fine with a sexual relationship or just a friendship.. and I told him that he was playing with thier emotions because it is next to impossible NOT to develop feelings. He insisted I was wrong that I just wasn't being "Open minded" enough.. that I would see the light well I did see the "light" told him that if Open marriage was what he wanted, I would open it so much it would be just like we weren't married.. because HEY WE AREN'T! I divorced him (and to this day he wishes he had made other choices) and the "just friend" he had that he just knew wasn't going to get attached, because she was much more "open minded" then me.. well he is a cop (my ex husband) and guess what.. he had to call his buddies at the department to come get his s*** out of this "just friends" apartment because she freaked the he** out when she found out he had other "just friends" (although she had known he was married when he was with her) and she went after him with a knife.

 

Well, I guess I was more right on the money then he thought. Feelings do develop and jealousy does come out even when you're doing all you can not to allow yourself to become attached. The idea of being "just friends" seemed all good to both of them.. but like my Dad always says "It's all fun and games until someone gets thier eye poked out"

 

So is my Ex a "Bad" guy.. you know even to this day, I tend to think he isn't.. but he did make very "Bad" decisions and everyone around him had to pay in some way for the choices he made for himself.

 

Again Stormy, I am not attacking you and I'm sorry if you feel that way.. I sense a lot of hostility from you regarding what I've had to say. The bottomline in my opinion is if you choose to involve yourself with a MM then you are walking into a situation with your eyes wide open.. you already know he is decieving his other "friend" the one he calls his wife.

[stormywind]

Merin2--sorry you sense hostility in what I'm saying. I guess I'm just trying to clarify more the situation and prevent miscommunication here in order to get a clearer assessment of the situation.

 

As for the good guy/bad guy thing---I guess what I want to know is---is what he's done (both regarding his wife and to me), wrong?

 

It's so confusing these days. It seems like what's considered "normal" or acceptable has gotten blurred.

 

I mean, years ago if a married guy would have flirted (suggestively) with a single woman, he'd be thought of as a creep. These days you get the attitude of "Well, he was only flirting--it's not like he cheated."

 

See what I mean? It's hard to know what's even ok anymore.

 

 

 

OT: Btw, speaking of cops, a friend of mine was recently telling me her experience with the "cop personality." Ever heard of this? I didn't know what it was.

[VivianLee]

From what he says, he's not too happily married, they don't sleep together, and haven't for 2 years, there's no affection

 

They all say it! I'm not just referring to married men, married women say it too. Most married couples end up at some time in their marriage complaining of this.....one spouse or the other or both....seems to me that may be one of the main things couples need to keep a grip on.....BUT I say this to them and myself....IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE TO CHEAT!!

 

He's marriage is in a slump....meeting you and flirting with you is WWWWAAAAYYY more exciting.....but that doesn't mean he'll ever let you have his heart.....just his ****

[stormywind]

They all say it! I'm not just referring to married men, married women say it too. Most married couples end up at some time in their marriage complaining of this.....one spouse or the other or both....seems to me that may be one of the main things couples need to keep a grip on.....BUT I say this to them and myself....IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE TO CHEAT!!

 

 

Nope. I never said it was an excuse to cheat. I was just stating facts. And like I said, he didn't come out and tell me this in order to convince me to fool around with him.

He mentioned how he's an affectionate person. I asked more questions after that and that's how I found out those things.

[VivianLee]

Originally posted by stormywind

Nope. I never said it was an excuse to cheat. I was just stating facts. And like I said, he didn't come out and tell me this in order to convince me to fool around with him.

He mentioned how he's an affectionate person. I asked more questions after that and that's how I found out those things.

 

I wasn't saying you were saying it as an excuse but that could be his excuse.....

 

 

See, you don't live with him, so you don't see what he's like on a daily basis. Was his wife affectionate in the beginning of their relationship before they married?? If she wasn't, he still choose to commit to her. If she was, perhaps it's because of him, maybe you aren't the first person he's flirted with and she knows that or perhaps he's a dud at home. He may be in his own rut and she's tired of him too.....

 

When I was having my affair, my MM didn't complain much about his wife but he did say she wasn't very affectionate. I asked him was she this way before they married. He told me yes (as in she wasn't affectionate before they married). I asked him why did you marry her. He said that he loved other things about her so he didn't let it bother him. I began to wonder though, what is he like to live with. Of course I got his best side but I knew his company meant alot to him plus he's volunteer work, I got to imagining what it was like for her to deal with him being so gung ho over other things all the time over maybe spending time with her and their daughter.

 

Try and switch places with the wife, it can be quite eye opening...just try and get out before this situation gets addictive then no matter how stupid, wrong or worthless the relationship is, you are so hooked it's almost impossible to let go!!

[stormywind]

 

Try and switch places with the wife, it can be quite eye opening...just try and get out before this situation gets addictive then no matter how stupid, wrong or worthless the relationship is, you are so hooked it's almost impossible to let go!!

 

 

I do always try to figure out the other side. Like why did she get mad at him one time and start drinking his prized wine collection without telling him?

 

I've also wondered *why* she wasn't affectionate or why they didn't have sex anymore.

 

 

I think their trust is gone though--and I wonder if that can come back (my opinion based on my experiences is "no"). Apparently he only wanted one child and she "slipped" with her pills. Granted, he loves both his kids, but I think when that happened it had to take a lot out of the marriage. Sadly, I've seen this happen way too much--and it's really surprised me how many women I've seen doing this in this day and age.

It also happened with the last guy I dated (when he was married). They ended up with five kids. After the last one, he got fixed--and I'm sure he had no trust left. (I dated him well after he was divorced btw).

 

It's possible with this married guy that his wife will only have sex to have kids. I've seen that happen. It's also possible that he'd done something to cause it.

 

I do wonder if he drinks too much. He doesn't seem like it but I do know he likes wine on a daily basis. Hard to say.