A corner turned

[mammax3]

Hi all.

 

We have begun the process of dividing assets and figuring out child custody, support payments and the beginning logistics of our separation. We are doing it 'ourselves' with minimal attorney input, but I am definitely going to an attorney to check the document before I sign. It is early in our communication stages, just putting ideas out there, essentially, but on paper.

 

It hit me really hard. My IC said it's okay to acknowledge my sadness but not to dwell in it. So, I told myself (crying as I nursed my nb) that it's okay to feel sad, our relationship as I thought it was is over, but am I really that sad to lose the man? I reminded myself of the things I began to dislike about him, the tension that I denied was there... among other things I realized that I'm okay. I'm scared though. The life path I was on has been completely knocked out of whack. I'm spinning and I don't see where I'm going. Financially I'm scared too. He's not making enough to support both us and him.

 

(A quick background for those who don't want to look me up: My H of 5 years, partner for 10 altogether decided 3 months ago while I was 8 months pregnant with his 3rd child that he wanted to separate. The reason he gave was that he's not 'in love' with me anymore. He's been travelling extensively for most of the last year and occasionally for our whole marriage. We haven't seen each other much and when we did it was usually okay, but sometimes strained.)

 

I nearly called him (but, as usual, repressed that urge!!) and instead decided to cool off and calm down. There is lots in the agreement that I disagree with but since I'm taking it as a jumping off point, I'm okay with that. It must have been hard for him to start writing first, offering up points and financial amounts. I'm unsure how solid he is on the points and if he's very rigid, we're going to have problems!

 

I'm seeing an IC, and she's helping me look at my emotional responses. I'm coping really well, but only because I'm not really allowing my emotions out. I haven't really been angry, and I've been sad.

 

It wasn't sudden at all to see the document, but it still hurt a h3ll of a lot!

 

And our poor kids. I can't understand how he can be so far away from them.

 

I just needed to vent a bit. There will be more as we navigate through this mess. Ugh. I guess pain is necessary, but this sucks totally! More than that, I can't even express it. It hurts so much.

[Gunny376]

Don't let him bufflo you Mamamx, and you make damn sure and certain that you see an attorney and that you and those babies get what's coming to you.

 

If his azz's got to sleep out in the woods in a hollow log, drink muddy water, and eat road kill ~ than so be it.

 

I didn't ask for nor want my "D" but I got it none the less, and I sucked it up and dealt with it, and put the best interest of my children before me and myself, my wants and my needs. I knew my payday would come once we'd got them grown and gone. I knew that I had to put my wants and needs on hold. I just had to suck it up, and keep my Levi's zipped up. And, yea it was hard ~ all freaking day hard, and it wasn't just one day ~ it was day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Going without, doing without, working two jobs. Driving used cars, while the XW was trading for new ones every couple of years. (That's my XW ~ not to imply that you would do such Mamamax!)

 

Hold that @%$%&^&'s feet to the fire!

[Melovator]

See that lawyer Mammax, don't let him stuff you and your kids around. They're his kids too. He didn't want his spermies making babies he should have wrapped them up to keep for his sticky self.

 

Financially I'm scared too. He's not making enough to support both us and him.

The money thing is scary- really scary because it is actually emotional. I used to work helping people at the absolute bottom financially try to keep it all together to pay rent, bills and keep food in the house (and at that stage in my life I had just stepped up from subsistence student living, so was totally familiar with the stress but had no onerous debt fortunately). And money is really emotional to think about and talk about. Money is really easy to lie to yourself about.

 

You crunch those numbers and work out your bottom line- what you need to live, and factor in any debts- whose name is it in? What are you legally responsible for? Don't feel sorry for him, don't let him manipulate you into an untenable financial position- do a month by month budget for a year and see if its a profit or loss for your household. If the thought of doing this yourself is aughh! Consult a professional to help you.

 

I'm coping really well, but only because I'm not really allowing my emotions out. I haven't really been angry, and I've been sad.

 

About the anger thing- I couldn't really get screamingly angry enough to feel like I wasn't a pot about to boil over, so I smashed one of his coffee mugs (it had a crack in it and needed to be thrown out anyway...) but it was very satisfying to smash that mug into tiny little ceramic bits with a hammer, and even better to sweep it all up and put it in the bin! Just a suggestion!

 

And the sad heavy heart feeling it does ease, you'll feel a little less heavy in the chest and ripped open in the guts as each day passes, so people tell me and its true, especially when its a day passed where you've been in control- so bloody good on ya for NOT calling- that was control of yourself of the finest order (sadly I'm pretty sure I could not have controlled myself...)

 

You're amazing Mammax! Write it in eye liner on your mirror or on a post it note and stick it on the fridge: You are Amazing! You are in Control!

[PWSX3]

YOU GO GIRL!!!!

 

I have kept up with your thread & you are a strong woman. Things are tuff right now, but I know you will make it.

 

Yesterday I was talking to a friend at work & I asked him; was your divorce worth it & his response was; for me it was & I hear that a lot from other people as well.

 

Just like Gunny said; you didn't pick this to happen, this isn't something that you want but you have to deal with & I know 6 months down the road you will be posting & saying how things are hard, but you feel so much better.

 

Keep pushing forward & be strong!!

[mammax3]

Thank you! It sure helps to have you rally around me!

 

I turned another corner. I'm not so sad. I have found my balls. Yaay! I had been trying hard for mediation and all amicability since I thought he wanted to stay involved - I was being a doormat to help my children have a father. He's taken that off the table - he SO doesn't want to be the Dad I was trying to allow him to be. So! Here I go! <devil smiley> Why the h3ll am I trying then?

 

I've got the last straw of the lawyers and courts on my side.

 

I suppose worse case scenario would be him fleeing the country, right?

[ilmw]

Thank you! It sure helps to have you rally around me!

 

I turned another corner. I'm not so sad. I have found my balls. Yaay! I had been trying hard for mediation and all amicability since I thought he wanted to stay involved - I was being a doormat to help my children have a father. He's taken that off the table - he SO doesn't want to be the Dad I was trying to allow him to be. So! Here I go! <devil smiley> Why the h3ll am I trying then?

 

I've got the last straw of the lawyers and courts on my side.

 

I suppose worse case scenario would be him fleeing the country, right?

 

Hi mamma,

 

sorry for not posting or pm'ing for so long...just been so busy! When I post on sep/divorce.. I like to have though about what I am going to say.. unlike some of the other forums..

 

I have been..following your thread... and I have to say... you are sounding so much stronger, as the days, weeks go by.

 

I doubt very much he would flee he country... He left you for someone else in this country... right??? (I'm sure you were just musing).

 

In your case.. your truly are lucky.. if you can call it that... they he left. (Sounds strange) but.. the way you have described your H... and what he is doing... he is not worthy..to be your H or the father to his kids!

 

If he did not do it now.. he would probably do it later.. He will probably leave the OW to.. down the road.

 

He really does sound like my own father... he did something similar when I was 8... and I think that is why... I for one feel so strongly about your thread.... I know what I went through as a child... without a father... how it effected my own life... and it pisses me off... that there other other men out there... who emulate my own father's actions... I thought that my father was enough for this world!

 

Keep up your strength...

 

BTW... how are the little ones?

 

All the best...

ilmw

[mammax3]

Thanks. Most of the time I feel like I can handle it. I have to remember it was his choice.

 

Our marriage wasn't perfect and could have been improved. His lack of principles and integrity lead him to choose this path. As LJ put it so long ago, he's inherently defected.

 

I was just musing ilmw, and what else is I often put that aspect of our break up aside. I think I'm still shocked that he could be disloyal so I'm ignoring that piece of info as much as I can. Which can't be healthy but right now I'm just getting through, and dealing with what I can.

 

The kids are great, thanks. They are gold to me. I can't even put it into words. We are all doing great.

[Melovator]

They are gold to me. I can't even put it into words

 

That's why you'll be better for all this mamma, you know what's important in life.

 

I'll try some words (some would say I can't help myself). Once you have kids its not about you anymore, its about them (of course taking care of yourself is an important part of the taking care of them).

 

We don't really get to keep them that long in the grand scheme of things... 20 years tops maybe and by then they'll have been building their own lives for a few years at least (how I dread the teenage years- thank god I have a son!)... But when they're really little people, they are all yours in a way they'll never be again... they're so precious because each tiny little stage of development that you get to guide them through and watch with a joy that binds them more and more to your heart, is also what takes them away from you when they are grown.

 

It's the wanting to raise your children to be fine adult people that you're going to be proud to know that pushes you to be a person you're proud to know. (Well that's my lofty ideal anyway...)

 

Do these words come close?

[Ladyjane14]

I have to be honest, Mamma... there's no way I would deal with ANY of the details of this divorce. I'd run the whole thing through an attorney.

 

I know that's a more expensive alternative. But... you've got VERY small children and a long, long time ahead to raise them. This isn't a situation in which you've only got a few years of childhood left ahead to deal with. You've got 18 + college years just with your new baby, and only a couple of years less on your other two. So, saving a couple thousand now is just a drop in the bucket in comparison. You've got a long row to hoe, honey.

 

Your STBX has to make his own choices. If he wants to be involved with those children as a father (or not), he'll make that choice regardless of how much he pays in support.

 

Get a good attorney and make sure you're getting the support those kids need to take them all the way to adulthood. And don't put yourself through all the emotional bullsh*t that goes part and parcel with hammering out a divorce agreement. This a*hole has already brought enough stress into your life. Let somebody else deal with him on this.

[sumdude]

I have to be honest, Mamma... there's no way I would deal with ANY of the details of this divorce. I'd run the whole thing through an attorney.

 

I know that's a more expensive alternative. But... you've got VERY small children and a long, long time ahead to raise them. This isn't a situation in which you've only got a few years of childhood left ahead to deal with. You've got 18 + college years just with your new baby, and only a couple of years less on your other two. So, saving a couple thousand now is just a drop in the bucket in comparison. You've got a long row to hoe, honey.

 

Your STBX has to make his own choices. If he wants to be involved with those children as a father (or not), he'll make that choice regardless of how much he pays in support.

 

Get a good attorney and make sure you're getting the support those kids need to take them all the way to adulthood. And don't put yourself through all the emotional bullsh*t that goes part and parcel with hammering out a divorce agreement. This a*hole has already brought enough stress into your life. Let somebody else deal with him on this.

 

 

I second what LJ is saying here. He WILL be responsible for helping raise those kids if only financially. Since that's all you're likely to get from him then get a lawyer to be damn sure you get the most help with those kids that is possible. You should separate yourself from him in every other way possible. This isn't about screwing him ... it's about getting you and the kids what you need. He'll man up whether he likes it or not! Cause the MAMMAX and THE MAN will come after his check and MAKE him responsible for his children.

[azianpride143]

I agree. You need legal representation to make sure you get alimony for yourself and the kids get the child support that they deserve.

[mammax3]

Thank you.

 

I am getting representation. It's time. He's buffaloing me, I think, Gunny. And LJ and AP, I am beginning to struggle with the emotionally volatile negotiating. It's very hard.

 

Mel, it is amazing to have kids (I have boys too, and one girl) .. I love the idea that they will get bigger and more fun.

 

I'm still waiting for him to reply to my email. He really must not have liked it!

[mammax3]

I'm overwhelmed today. And angry.

 

I had to send him another email to prompt him to reply to the other one. He said sorry that he didn't reply and that he'd like to see the children. It's been 6 weeks since he's seen them and he talked to them last 2 weeks ago. He hasn't asked via email how they're doing or anything! And he says he's like to see them? My a$$ he does.

 

It's so infuriating.

 

And I keep thinking that he left me while I was pregnant. I can't believe he did that. And he was/is OKAY with doing that. He has asked about nb once. How much could he have loved me? It makes me mad thinking how carelessly he tossed me aside and our children to make way for his selfishness that he's unapologetic about. Sick. Really sick.

 

And then *I* feel bad when I don't want to chit chat on the phone with him and help him try and figure out how to visit and make arrangements with him. I feel bad! Since he's the man I had (poorly) chosen to make a life with, I feel like I should still be there for him or something! Sick.

 

I don't want him back. I don't want him to explain himself. I don't know how much I want him in the kids lives. I don't know how to get him to move his sh*t out. I'm unsure how to talk to him and get the answers and negotiation I need (of even just coming for a visit). I don't feel I can trust him and yet it's hard not to trust him.

 

I want to call him and tell him how hard I'm having it. I want to tell him to fix it (not like I know what would fix this). I want to know how my lifes going to be, I want my kids to have a positive father.

 

It's crazy how mad I can be and then suddenly I'm crying and sad.

 

It's wrong to call him, isn't it. And throw up my emotions all over him. And I'd no doubt regret it. He can't fix any of this. I have to keep going through it and dealing with it. I'm just really struggling today. And I had such an empowering weekend. Maybe I just need a good nights sleep.

[Ladyjane14]

He hasn't seen the children in six weeks, hasn't spoken to them in two, and he's only asked about the baby one time. Figure the odds that he's REALLY coming and see the kids.

 

Chances are that he's wanting to hash out details on the divorce. He might have an appointment with a local attorney that you don't know about, or he might have a do-it-yourself kit that he wants to spring on you.

 

Hell, he might even have some kind of scheduled get-together with family or friends that has him in the area.

 

Did you tell him you don't want him staying at the house? Because if you haven't, I believe I'd just ask him flat out WHY he's really coming and WHERE he's planning to stay.

 

Meantime honey... you've got PLENTY to be sad and angry about. But just to be on the safe side, have your OB continue to monitor you for postpartum depression, okay? It hasn't been that long since you had the baby and PPD can present at any time during the first year or so.

[mammax3]

How do I talk to him? I feel like if I'm too normal that he'll feel even more justified about leaving and I don't want him to. But if I'm too b*tchy, then he'll feel justified in another way. I don't feel all buddy buddy with him and don't want to come across that way. And I don't have enough answers to my own questions to tell him what to do or what I'm willing to accept.

 

I'm also afraid that once I start chatting with him I'll inadvertantly agree to something. The last time it happend was regarding him coming and visiting and collecting him clothes over my birthday. He didn't end up coming and didn't tell me he wasn't (Those are the stats I'm working on) although I agreed to that visit without meaning to.

 

I'm really worried about agreeing to something. He has no idea what it's like over here. I'd never want to be without the children but it's hard. And feeling so confused and frustrated with him shortens my mental capacity or something and I have less to give. I think it'll get better once I talk to an attorney.

 

I'd really like to know how to talk to him, how to guard myself. How to prevent any agreements that I'm feeling at the moment...

[Ladyjane14]

 

I'd really like to know how to talk to him, how to guard myself. How to prevent any agreements that I'm feeling at the moment...

 

I'm not sure if I'm the best person to ask about that. By now, his scumbag ass would not WANT to talk to me.

 

All I can tell you is what I'd say... And basically, I'd call him on his bullsh*t as to his proposed visitation and ask him wtf he REALLY wants. I'd give him a FULL LAUNDRY LIST of everything he'd already done to me and to his children. I'd tell him he's out of his gourd if he thinks he's wandering in and out of my home like it was a Motel 8. I'd tell him that he's welcome to submit his plan for visiting with the children to my email address and that I'd be back to him in 24-48 hours. And... knowing me, I'm thinking the verbiage might not be fit for little ears , so I'd call him AFTER they were down for the night and out of earshot.

 

You've been WAY NICE about all this. This guy dumped you while you were EIGHT months pregnant, and you've seen neither hide nor hair of him since the birth. Tell him straight up that there will be NO verbal agreements and that he can submit any requests to you in writing.

 

The beauty of divorce, my dear, is that you don't have to kiss his ass anymore. And you aren't obligated to "chat". So... don't.

[mammax3]

Thanks LJ. Your message prompted me to find some balls and tell it out to him. I was super nervous, but I couldn't pinpoint why - he has nothing on me. I think it was just because I ceased being 'nice' and that was somewhat worrisome for me. I can't stand the idea of someone not liking me, and he's already shown he has no regard for me, so why was I stressing?? Anyway!

 

I told him how I'd like to see it go down:cool:, with lawyers instead of trying to do it on our own. I told him that what he's doing (not doing) to the kids is atrocious and the choices he's making (and not making) is leading him to just wash on the kids. He insisted that he loves them and would like to see them but the flight cost is too much. I reiterated that it's his choice to live in that city instead of nearby to us. In talking about lawyers he wants to keep it civil and I essentially told him to go to h3ll. The only way I'd do it civilly is for the benefit of the kids, but since he's essentially taken them out of the equation, I have no desire to keep it nice.

 

He doesn't think that it's necessary to tell them about the divorce, and that it wouldn't be a big deal for the kids to watch him pack up his stuff (and the stuff of 'ours' that he's taking from the house) and leave. I think that he's not seeing the reality of how this will affect the kids. He is definitely taking his stuff out the next time he's here (tentative plans have been made) but we've left it to discuss how we're telling the kids and where they will go when he's taking his stuff out.

 

I didn't cry or yell, and neither did he. Despite the things that were being said it was, if you didn't know english, a non-heated conversation. I felt SO SO SO relieved after talking to him, much of my stress ended when I hung up the phone. I didn't fully realize how stressed I was!

 

So thank you, LJ. I really feel that you lent me your pair and gave me the confidence to say something. I *don't* need to be nice for him. He did dump me when I was 8 months pregnant with his 3rd kid. And he's lied to me about the ow, his job, his intentions and who knows what else?!

 

I felt so down last night before I came on here, and feeling that I was just being pulled along where I didn't want to go, but not really knowing where I wanted to end up. But even if I don't know where my 'finish line' is, I still know that I'm in a race and I have to keep running.

 

xo!

[Melovator]

Mammax you rock! (and so, of course, does the 'always a Lady' Jane!) Know what you mean by a non-heated conversation and just how really good they feel. I'll say it again, you're amazing mammax! An inspiration!

[Ladyjane14]

I was super nervous, but I couldn't pinpoint why - he has nothing on me. I think it was just because I ceased being 'nice' and that was somewhat worrisome for me. I can't stand the idea of someone not liking me, and he's already shown he has no regard for me, so why was I stressing??

 

Good job, Mamma. It feels good to hop into the driver's seat, doesn't it?

 

Anyway, I have a theory on why it might have been stressful for you to do that....

You've been somewhat ambivalent about continuing in the marriage since your first post. And you've made a decision recently that you don't WANT your STBX back under any circumstances, that he's not man enough for the long-haul. I'm right with you on that... but are YOU? Are you really?

 

I'm wondering if there might be some little part of you, somewhere in your mind or heart, that isn't quite certain of divorce as being YOUR selected choice. I've noticed, reading here at LS, that some of the anxiety and stress goes away once a person starts moving decisively down their chosen path. Until that choice is thoroughly made though, there's often a sense of paralysis... a fear of making a mistake.

 

When you're afraid of making a mistake, it's almost impossible to move forward in your life. It's like standing in a mine field, afraid to move. So, what I have to wonder, if this dynamic is indeed in place... is what you're afraid of? Are you afraid to close this door in your life? Is there some little part of you that's still hoping he'll come back? ... that he'll change?

 

It's not wrong or bad if that's the way you're feeling. But I think you're gonna feel stronger if you acknowledge those feelings and work through them consciously until you're more firm on your course, no matter what that course may be.

 

You're already a hero, you know. You can look into the little faces of your babies and KNOW it. You don't have anything to prove to anybody. Once you "know it" too... you'll be unstoppable.

 

 

 

(Thanks, Mel. )

[mammax3]

Thanks Mel!

 

I understand what you're saying LJ, how remaining hung up on someone would prevent a person from healing and moving on. I think my head knows he's not coming back, and I know logically that he's a POS that is a waste of my time. But my heart is struggling to cath up. He's been my SO for 10 years, the father of my children and I had been looking forward to growing old with this man.

 

I'm not paralyzed by this decision to divorce. I'm all for moving on it, since I'm one of those women who listens to her head, not her heart. I wish we were more pleasant to each other, or maybe I wish he hadn't hurt me so I could be more pleasant to him. Or maybe it's I wish he'd be more of a man so I could respect him. He's not the right man for me for the long haul. But who is? Is he there? I don't need to think about that yet, but it's hard to see that side of things...

 

I think I'm more afraid not of 'closing' this door, but trying to see what it'll look like now, not really closed, but not open either. Y'know? If he were taking a firmer stance in wanting to be with the kids then I could see how it may go, or I could see how I could behave. Or if he were taking a firmer stance in NOT wanting to see the kids, then I'd have a potential game plan too. But he's all ambivalent and sketchy, like he's waiting to see how to play it to his advantage or something... And leaving everything casual and loose to his hand.

 

You've given me some more to think about LJ... just when I thought I had things in my hand!

 

xo

[Ladyjane14]

I think I'm more afraid not of 'closing' this door, but trying to see what it'll look like now, not really closed, but not open either. Y'know? If he were taking a firmer stance in wanting to be with the kids then I could see how it may go, or I could see how I could behave. Or if he were taking a firmer stance in NOT wanting to see the kids, then I'd have a potential game plan too. But he's all ambivalent and sketchy, like he's waiting to see how to play it to his advantage or something... And leaving everything casual and loose to his hand.

 

Good point. It might very well be that emotionally , you're trying to "look into your crystal ball" and see what life will be like post-divorce.

 

You know though, that no matter how well you lay your plans... there are no guarantees in life. We can't affect the choices of others. Your STBX might decide to stay away, and then change his mind 3-4 years down the pike. Or vice versa. There's no way to know.

 

It's a daunting prospect to face uncertainty, not only for yourself, but when you KNOW you've got the responsibility of three other defenseless human lives depending on you. All you can do though baby, is just the best you can do. This is the same rule that applies to everyone, no matter what the circumstances are.

 

So... you shape your 5-year plan as best as you can and then start down your path with all the determination you can muster. "Fear is the mindkiller", right? It can keep you jogging in place if you let it.

[mammax3]

It's so easy when I don't talk to him. I have my mind made up and I'm all sure of myself (mostly! :rolleyes:)... But when I talk to him I instantly remember everything about him and how connected we are through the kids and our long history... and I'm suddenly unsure. And angry, at the same time!

 

I've got a different kind of cry tonight. More resigned, I guess than sad.

 

Your comment "start down your path with all the determination you can muster" has really resounded in me. And you're right, I can only do the best I can and there are no guarantees. He's shown next to no interest in the lives of the kids in the last 3 months. There's no reason for me to believe that he's suddenly going to get interested. I have to assume that outside of financial obligations he's not going to be an active player in the kids lives and I need to move down that path. I've made it clear that i don't want to be his friend and I have nothing to lose from him.

 

It's hard (of course, excuse the whining) to not have him, but I'm finding that I can do most things on my own and I'm happy with the jobs I'm doing. I'm prioritizing my house and kids the way I feel like and my non-vacuumed floors? Whatever, the kids and I played at the park today and had a healthy lunch. I'm paying the bills on time (his money, yes) and getting things done (decluttering mostly)...

 

Thanks. I'll have more to post next week, I think.

[azianpride143]

That's why it's good to be apart from him. Do not give him a reason to inject himself back into your life. The only connection you should have with him is your children. Unfortunately despite everything that has happened, he is still the father of these kids. If he wants to see them let him see them. But you set the rules not him. Remember your in control.

[Ladyjane14]

That's why it's good to be apart from him. Do not give him a reason to inject himself back into your life. The only connection you should have with him is your children. Unfortunately despite everything that has happened, he is still the father of these kids. If he wants to see them let him see them. But you set the rules not him. Remember your in control.

 

I agree with AP. Don't forget that YOU set the rules and YOU are in control. Be in the driver's seat, sweetie.

 

Meantime, have you finished college? If not, maybe it's time to start thinking about selecting a career so that you needn't depend on your STBX later in life. Right now, I imagine that spousal support would be commensurate with your expenses. So... talk to you attorney and then get to spendin'.

[sumdude]

As much as I hate playing games... you need to give him your poker face while you get your ducks in a row behind the scenes.