In love but not with my wife

[WBAsmethwick]

Hi all, I know I'm opening mself up for a whole lot of abuse here but I could do with some advice. Because to be honest I'm out of Ideas.

 

I'm deeply in love with a woman who isn't my wife. I have two kids who I love very much. I'm in love with someone who isn't their mother.

 

The woman I'm in love with is my ideal partner. I love her like I've never loved anyone in my life (and it's not a short life). I so want to be with her and not anyone else. But my kids are there and I do love them. what should I do?

 

Some facts - Married for 14 years. Kids, 12 and 10.

[Guest]

I'm in a very similar situation, I would say I love my wife, but I'm having a very hard time overcoming distance between us, and feel much closer to another woman I had an affair with, got caught with. We had contact after being caught, when everything felt in limbo, but after the initial mess, I've said I need to try to work things out with my wife.

 

It's tough. Most people will tell us we are fooling ourselves, don't know the details of your situation, but obviously we make ourselves see things how we want - all the same, my love for the other woman feels very real to me. I've been on the rollercoaster about what to do for months, and at this point, I'm trying to not be in contact with the other woman, and try to deal with the relationship with my wife as clearly as possible. No contact is at 2 weeks, and it sucks. I guess its the right thing to do, but I'm dying, thinking about another life I could have that I am letting go.

 

Blah.

[Dad_of_3]

You need to take some time out from all this and do some serious thinking.

This is only my opinion and should just be treated as such.

 

Are you really ready to jepordise 14 years for some feeling?

More information is needed for me to give my opinion.

Has anything happened between you and this OW?

Does OW feel the same way?

Whats the relationship like between you wife and yourself?

Are there problems within the marriage?

 

Just quickly read over your post, a whole lot of "I" in the relationship.

You want a quick read of what its like to entertain the idea of this OW and not think about the affects on your partner or children?

Read my thread.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101545

 

I dont know much from your post, but I've been there and done that, and it cost me the 4 most precious things in my life.

[dilly]

The same thing happened with me. Ive been with my wife 13 yrs, married 8. 3 kids. Our marriage has always been rocky. We even work together which completely exacerbates the situation. We have seen marriage counselors and the therapist actually sided with me, telling my wife she needed to quit controlling every aspect of my life among other things. My wife didn't like that diagnosis so she never went back. She won't even go to another one. I've tried everything to make things better but she won't try at all. There is no love in our marriage. We take care of the kids and we sleep in separate beds. She says she still loves me but she will change for a moment and than everything is back to normal. I've wanted to separate countless of times but i never took that step because I don't want to hurt my children. A friend of mine told me that some relationships just wasn't meant to be and that honestly my kids would be better off if they didn't have to deal with the tension in our household. I do have to agree.

 

The past few years I became very good friends with a girl i knew.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t111426/

My wife was actually quite a bit jealous of her. She too was married. I fell head over heels for this girl but I made the mistake of telling her that I loved her and she responded by not talking to me again. Well i am completely devastated now. I was ready to take that step of leaving had she said that she had the same feelings for me. Well, that didn't happen. I do know now that I will never be happy unless i take that step to leave my marriage. The feelings I had for my friend were unsurpassed and it felt good to have someone actually care for me. I feel that I lost my dream girl, but, i am slowly warming up to the fact that there has to be another girl out there for me. Its cruel though, If she had never come into my life, I would have felt that my life is what it is, tragic and all and I would have to live out my days in agony until my kids grew up. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

[JamesM]

 

The woman I'm in love with is my ideal partner. I love her like I've never loved anyone in my life (and it's not a short life). I so want to be with her and not anyone else. But my kids are there and I do love them. what should I do?

 

Some facts - Married for 14 years. Kids, 12 and 10.

 

You won't get slammed or abused. You are not the first one.

 

How do you know that this woman is your ideal partner? Have you gotten to know her on an intimate...not sexual, but personal...basis? Is she married...does she feel the same about you? Have you had sex with her?

 

Why do you no longer love your wife? What happened?

[zhan_w]

Wow, Im not alone in feeling this way. I have been with my wife for 17yrs, married 13. We dated in highschool, had children soon after and began the task of creating and growing a family. In the last 5 years we have just grown apart. I love her but am no longer "in love" with her. I'm afraid to leave for the sake of the kids. And now I have met someone and fallen deeply in love with her. I don't think it will ever return to the way things were with my wife. Nothing feels the same and I find myself actually not wanting to be intimate with my wife. I almost wish I would have never met the other woman. I feel like I'm letting an opportunity slip away and it's tearing me up.

[DarkBlue]

That is so sad.

 

I want to put my two cents into this one... just because it strikes a chord with me. Deep down inside I think I wish that the MM I like is the one posting this thread and is only in his marriage for his kids sake... *sigh* I love kids.. I miss my nieces...I took care of them for a year for my sister and it made me realize how cool I'd be with having kids, even if they weren't mine. I'd help my MM take care of his kids if I found out the only reason he was in a marriage was for the sake of the kids. I know I'd never be able to replace the mother but I'd try my best to prove that I understand that they come as an extension of him.. part of the package. That sort of deal. So what I'm curious about is.... what are you asking ofr help with here exactly? Are you wondreing if you should try to advance things with the other woman? If your marriage is dead shouldn't you get a divorce? Are you afraid the woman you love won't accept the kids? Or are you afraid the kids won't accept the woman? Or do you think the kids can't already sense your loveless marriage and you can someow trick them into thinking mommy and daddy are just fine when they are obviously not? Because I'm a child who's parents divorced.. and trust me.. kids know waaaaayyy before you actually physically get a divorce that your marriage is dead. There was a topic on MSN the other day about the "non-divorce". People who stay in marriages only because of convienence factors of fear of losing privlages and social status that the whole "family" scenario can bring. If your ONLY staying in the marriage for the kids, you may not realize that you could be doing more harm then help... especially if the tension starts to build and there are fights with you and your wife out of frustration of having to be together, while not really being TOGETHER. Know what I mean?

[Ladyjane14]

Wow... what was that? ... Four, count 'em... FOUR guys, who don't know how to be married. And even though they're desperately unhappy... they still don't seem to be doing much to find out.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but each and every one of you are right where YOU put yourselves.

 

Maybe it's because when we first decide to marry, we already think we know all there is to know about it. We don't think we NEED education on something so simple as just living our lives every day in tandem with another person.

 

Pssst... I'm going to tell you a secret that took me over twenty years to learn...

All a person needs to do in order to have a happy marriage is to be NICE to each other on a daily basis and to prioritize their partner's needs as if they were their own. That's it. Simple.

 

For each of you guys... there was a failure within the marriage to do that. The failure might have been your wife's. It might have been yours. But I suspect it's more likely to be a little bit of both. Whatever the case, this failure has resulted in significant marital problems.

 

At that point, you each had a choice. You could RESOLVE the problems, or allow them to continue in existance. Now, you might argue with me that you "tried". But "trying" is not succeeding, is it? And it's this acceptance of the problems as unresolvable that has led you to the place you're in.

 

None of you were willing to roll the dice and risk the marriage itself rather than continue living with the problem. But I'll tell you, sometimes when you hit a brick wall... that's what it takes. Sometimes, in order to have even a slim CHANCE at saving your marriage, you have to be willing to walk away from it.

 

Rather than take those risks though, each of you has taken the initial problem and escalated it through your involvement with outside love interests. This is only EVADING the initial problem, not solving it. So, here you are... in an even worse situation.

 

I'm going to say this to you plainly. What you have done is conflict avoidance. Rather than enter into SERIOUS, potentially marriage-ending, conflict... you chose to do an end-around on your wives. But you have to ask yourselves.... How can there be conflict resolution when the conflict itself has been avoided?

 

I suspect that in each of your cases, there existed a dearth of sexual intimacy. Sexual intimacy is what tends to separate our relationship with our partner from our relationships with others. It makes it unique and special, thus creating emotional intimacy. (There's a big thread on the Marriage forum which deals with this issue.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t101000/ )

 

Oftentimes, when a man finds himself lacking intimacy with his wife... he starts treating her like his mother.... someone he might otherwise have a special familial bond with, but also someone he views as an authoritarian, someone who's reining him in from experiencing his freedom to explore the world.

 

At that point, she's wearing a big-ass bullseye on her forehead where he can aim his frustrations. She can't do ANYTHING right after that. And as she's usually unaware of the absolute seriousness of the problem, more often than not.. she doesn't even know she needs to try.

 

I'm thinking that each of you will need to weigh the value of your family dynamic at this point. If it still has value to you... then you're going to need to face the conflict in order to save it. You're going to need to lay your cards on the table and take some risks... to accept nothing less than full resolution of the problems, even if it comes at the cost of the actual marriage.

 

But I warn you... there's NO ROOM for the OW in this. That door must be closed with great finality, otherwise it's impossible to put the appropriate energy into the marital relationship. It's not possible to accomplish marital recovery while you're splitting your emotional energy between two people. You must be as an arrow directed at a single target.. to either hit or miss, but still dedicated to the one goal.

 

For those of you who no longer value it at all... I don't understand what the hold-up is. If you say that your impetus is the kids, bear in mind.... your kids aren't learning anything of value in the marriage-model you've placed before them. They're just learning how to have a bad marriage.

 

People get divorced every day, and even though it's no picnic, it's better than living a life which lacks integrity and truth.

[mum2three]

I think you are like Dr. Phil of LS! We should have a special section for "Ask LJ". I really think you hit the nail on the head when you were saying that a wife has no clue that she is wearing a bullseye on her forehead b/c her husband is lacking some emotional intimacy. I was in the same place. I don't think men and women view love the same way. While I knew something was lacking I did not feel detached or loved him less b/c there was a stressor hanging over us. Now, I realized that he was detached and everything I did was just plain wrong or not his style. I am sure the problems or complaints are on both sides. When one spouse acts a certain way, the other will respond by lashing out or withdrawing or running away. It is certain that these men need to rethink what their goal is. Do you want to save your marriage and keep your family or do you want your freedom and pursue your personal goals. Either way, there are consequences to your actions and unless you actively involve your wife then you are making a unilateral choice for your family. The kids don't get a vote.

[Ladyjane14]

Do you want to save your marriage and keep your family or do you want your freedom and pursue your personal goals. Either way, there are consequences to your actions...

 

Exactly!!!

 

People get into this mess because they're afraid to face the consequences of their decisions. They don't want to have to live with regrets at having made the wrong choice. Often the fear of suffering negative consequences leaves them paralyzed to the point where they really aren't making any active choices at all. They end up standing on the sidelines, letting other people choose for them.... finally becoming more a spectator than a participant in their own lives.

[Guest]

Stay and work at it, or leave and start rebuilding elsewhere. Don't twist your panties into knots guys. Its that simple.

[dilly]

Hi ladyjane,

 

Very well put. Its nice to have a womens perspective on this. I understand what you are saying, however, life just throws us curveballs and many of us men lack the proper tools to hit it. I never chose to become emotionally attached to this OW, we became friends and from that, I couldn't control the way i started to feel about her. I think you've placed a blanket statement on something that is quite different in every relationship.

 

You wrote:

All a person needs to do in order to have a happy marriage is to be NICE to each other on a daily basis and to prioritize their partner's needs as if they were their own. That's it. Simple.

 

Well geez. Is it really as simple as that? The Golden Rule of marriage? Do unto others as you would want them to do to you. If everyone would do that,the world would be a much better place, but we have 6 billion people in this world and every single one of us is different, every one of us has different beliefs and values. Its like saying i just want world peace. well its not gonna happen until everyone has that same mindset.

 

Let me just share what I'm dealing with. Ive been married 8 years and have known my W for 13 yrs. We have 3 girls, an older daughter and younger twin girls. I have always made a commitment to both my wife and my family that they are my first priorities. I have always been there for everything. I have become successful enough where we don't stress about money and she lives in a very comfortable existence and i have the time and the flexibility to see every soccer game, go to every doctors appointment, help my daughter do homework every night and tuck her into bed with a story. I cook, i clean, I change diapers for feakin sake! I am always there for them physically, and emotionally. i am always there for my wife as well, anytime she needs me to tend the kids so she can go to the gym, shopping, or just to listen to. We also go out on the weekends as a couple for date nights. I hate to toot my own horn but i strive to be the best father and husband there is. This isn't just from my point of view but from acquaintances and especially our marrage therapist who happens to also be a woman.

 

The issue with our marriage has been because its been so one sided. She never cares for my needs and i suspect its because I've spoiled her so. when we first started dating, i was always very affectionate, I would hold her hand, open the car door for her, all those little things that romantic men like to do for women. Right from the get go she told me she hated expressing any affection, that holding hands was icky and she certainly did not like to cuddle. I learned to live with that but now after years of non affection, she decides that I'm not that affectionate with her. Are you kidding me? She trained me to be that way and now its my fault that I am? I'm usually pretty mellow about our relationship but its when I'm sick that her true colors come out. She has absolutely no sympathy for me at all. She is actually mad that I'm sick because than i can't cook, i can't clean, i can't cater to her every need. And she once told me that when we were first dating, the one event that she realized she loved me was when she herself was sick and I waited on her hand and foot.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I've got my issues too. I sometimes have a temper, and when we fight, we don't take it behind closed doors.

 

I had given up on many of my friends to devote time to my family, but I realized that I needed some alone time to just unwind and occasionally hang out with my friends. When i stated that I was going out with the guys, she wanted to put an end to that really fast. Things went downhill from there. We went to a marriage counselor that happened to be a woman, and lo and behold, she validated everything that I was doing. She even suggested that I handle my wife with kid gloves because she wasn't going to like what the therapist was going to say to her, which was that she may have some emotional issues and even chemical imbalances. She even suggested that my wife see a psychatrist for a prescription that may help her. There is some family history behind that, her sister was manic depressive, and was medicated for bipoler disorder before she finally took her own life 6 years ago. My wife thinks the counselor is a quack and won't go back to see her or any other therapist for that matter.

 

It takes two to dance doesn't it? When this OW came into my life, I admit, it filled a void that i honestly didn't realize i had at the time. My life was all about providing for my family and thats it. We became close friends and the feelings didn't start to manifest itself until much later. I felt horrible for even entertaining the idea of divorce. I would commiserate with the OW about our marriage and she always said it divorce was a step i had to take if i really wanted to be happy, given my circumstances. Well, i decided that IF this OW felt the same way about me as i did her than I would take that step. She really opened my eyes to what a true loving relationship was. Well, It didn't turn out that way I wanted , but I now know that I do need to leave the marriage for my own sake if I'm ever going to be truly happy. I've had a taste of nirvana and i don't want to go back.

 

I've tried countless of times to leave but, she always lures me back with empty promises. She doesn't realize the seriousness of the situation. In this case, I am the one walking around with the bulls eye on my forehead.

 

At that point, you each had a choice. You could RESOLVE the problems, or allow them to continue in existance. Now, you might argue with me that you "tried". But "trying" is not succeeding, is it? And it's this acceptance of the problems as unresolvable that has led you to the place you're in.

I can argue that I tried my ass off. Trying has nothing to do with succeeding. How often do we succeed in everything we try? If that were the case, we would all be rich and intelligent.

 

I generally agree to everything you say, but I don't take divorce very lightly. In this day and age, it seems to be a cure all and an easy way out to avoid dealing with the real situation, although If it needs to be done, it needs to be done.

 

And even though they're desperately unhappy... they still don't seem to be doing much to find out.

I really resent that statement. My marriage for dummies book has been thumbed through countless of times! LOL!

 

If I've learned anything from this, its that i will have to be more proactive in taking care of my own needs.

[mum2three]

Sounds like you have already made up your mind. There is no good solution to what you plan to do. If you want to make a conscious effort with your wife, you need to involve her fast. If you still love her and your family, you owe them that effort. It may not seem like that b/c your needs are not being met. But if you feel that your wife is honestly not going to try with you and you are firmly letting her know what the alternative is then it may be time to tell her your future plans don't include her in it.

 

I believe that no one should be blindsided by D news. I think if the other spouse is unaware of seriousness for D, then in the back of their minds, they still have that comfort level of commitment even though you may have checked out. My H told me that he thought about D for 9-12 months b4 he told me. I think we could have gotten some serious help and may still end up in the same place (waiting for his D papers now) but at least I would know that both of us gave our family a fighting chance.

 

I think the very essence of having children means a greater commitment than just 2 people. Not everyone believes that as evidenced by my H. But how do you look at your 5, 3, and 2 yr old and say that we brought you into this world loving you together and poof!... your picture of a family is no longer real. I lose my breath when I now know my H was thinking about D when my daughter turned one. I felt like we just got over the infancy and no sleep stage and it was suppose to be great like the first two times. I never caught up with my H. We barely have family pics with her. I feel broken for her.

 

Don't mean to hijack the thread but i just want you her to be fully conscious of where you stand. Did you talk about separation?

[Ladyjane14]

You wrote:

All a person needs to do in order to have a happy marriage is to be NICE to each other on a daily basis and to prioritize their partner's needs as if they were their own. That's it. Simple.

 

Well geez. Is it really as simple as that? The Golden Rule of marriage? Do unto others as you would want them to do to you. If everyone would do that,the world would be a much better place...

 

Yep... it's as simple as that. When both spouses commit themselves to that philosophy, it can't miss. So you're right. ...The world would indeed be a better place.

 

You know, you listed alot of problems with your wife... but she's got her own laundry list too. And whatever is on her list is just as important to her as yours is to you.

 

That said, there's not a whole lot you can do with someone who has a fundamental deficit. In cases of addiction or mental illness, all bets are off until AFTER successful treatment of those conditions. You can't build on a fatally flawed foundation... and those are fatal flaws.

 

Now, if she was an alcoholic... what would you be learning in Al Anon?

I think you probably already know. An undiagnosed or untreated bi-polar is no different than that.

 

 

I can argue that I tried my ass off. Trying has nothing to do with succeeding. How often do we succeed in everything we try? If that were the case, we would all be rich and intelligent.

 

And what would you do if you were unsuccessful at any other endeavor? Would you continue to beat your head on the same brick wall? Or would you do something different?

 

I really resent that statement. My marriage for dummies book has been thumbed through countless of times! LOL!

 

It's your perogative to "resent" it, but if you REALLY had done your homework, you'd know that involving a third person only escalates the problem rather than solves it. C'mon. That's a gimmee.

 

I would commiserate with the OW about our marriage and she always said it divorce was a step i had to take if i really wanted to be happy, given my circumstances. Well, i decided that IF this OW felt the same way about me as i did her than I would take that step.

 

Now ask yourself... if this is all about the marriage, and NOT about the OW, why were you waiting to see if she felt the "same way" before making a decision? Either the marital problems truly are unresolvable or they're not. The presence of an OW makes no difference to that.

 

My advice to you... Finish your old relationship before you start a new one. The data is skewed if you don't. And your odds in terms of "future regret" are unimpressive when you're working with poor data.

[mum2three]

You need to get your own column!

[dilly]

WBAsmethwick, sorry to hijack your thread.

 

I would never blindside my wife with D. As a matter of fact, we openly talk about it, many, many times. As soon as it gets unbearable, I tell her I'm leaving and she says she'll change for the better and of course, that never happens.

 

Ladyjane is right though, I never should have involved the third party, however, If it wasn't for her, i probably would never have known what uncompromising love really is. Its really opened my eyes to what can be. Its opened a huge can of worms that, frankly, i sometimes wish had never been opened. Its like Keanu Reeves in the Matrix. Once you know the truth, can you live your life knowing its all a lie?

 

Now ask yourself... if this is all about the marriage, and NOT about the OW, why were you waiting to see if she felt the "same way" before making a decision? Either the marital problems truly are unresolvable or they're not. The presence of an OW makes no difference to that.

 

You are correct. Its just that its hard to take that D step without a safety net. The OW is out of my life now so I can start to either work on my own relationship or get out.

 

Question? The OW I am refering to happens to be just a really close friend that I ended up falling for. The only affair I had was emotional and never anything physical. Is she technically an OW? She would have been been if she reciprocated my love for her.

 

In anycase, this is what the OW wrote on one of her last e-mails to me.

 

maybe the problems that X and I have, have a lot to do with my mind set. I don't think that I have ever given him and our marriage %100. And now I am doing just that.

 

It made me think, was I giving 100% to my marriage? Not at this point, but i sure did try.

 

Why am i still in this marriage? I think its because ive become numb to the pain. I weigh the pros and cons to D and its between not seeing my children everyday, which would devastate me, to just my happiness. At this point, there is just too much to lose. I'm okay at this point to stand on the sidelines a little longer but I fear the breaking point will come sooner than later.

[CrossRhodes]

Ladyjane14 said:

That said, there's not a whole lot you can do with someone who has a fundamental deficit. In cases of addiction or mental illness, all bets are off until AFTER successful treatment of those conditions. You can't build on a fatally flawed foundation... and those are fatal flaws.

 

LJ, this is a good point. Mental illness is a pretty broad category though ... where do you draw the line? Do you include things like depression and anxiety?

 

Similarly for addiction, what sort of addictions are you thinking of specifically?

[frannie]

WBAsmethwick, sorry to hijack your thread.

 

Well I probably shouldn't butt in here but I'm never very good at protocol, so here I am.

 

WBAsmethwick is 'my' MM. He's posted here twice since the original post, explaining a lot more about his situation. But each time he posts he gets a message about 24-48 hours waiting time before his message will go through. So he has no idea whether those messages will eventually get here... I have read that all this is due to a backlog on LS's front, with moderating unconfirmed accounts and guest posts. I also heard that a lot of new posts had been lost.

 

Anyway, some people earlier in the thread were asking how 'the OW' feels about him. And since I'm the OW, you can read how I feel over on the OM/OW forum.

 

And I also wanted to say, hijack away, since this is about MM and how they feel about their marriages and OW, and what they should do.. why not..? At least until WBA's posts come through (IF they ever do).

[frannie]

This is the latest post of mine on how I feel:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1074436#post1074436

 

But there are about a gazillion others.

 

Basically we both feel the same way... completely unsure as to what to do about this. Only he needs to stay for his kids sake, and I need to have a life. And the only real answer is to part. But neither of us want to do that... how often in life do you get a chance of real love..?

[Ladyjane14]

Question? The OW I am refering to happens to be just a really close friend that I ended up falling for. The only affair I had was emotional and never anything physical. Is she technically an OW? She would have been been if she reciprocated my love for her.

 

OW just means "other woman". I did take a quick peek at your background posts, so I was already aware that the relationship was an emotional one rather than a physical one, with you more invested than she.

 

The end-results emotionally are pretty much the same though. You have invested the energy that should have been going into the marriage into an outside person. This starves the primary relationship of what it needs in order to survive.

 

The most successful marriages require 100% from each partner. It's not a 50/50 proposition, it's 100/100. You can't do that if you're giving a substantial amount of your emotional energy to another person. There can be no truly meaningful restoration of the marriage under those conditions.

 

I'm okay at this point to stand on the sidelines a little longer but I fear the breaking point will come sooner than later.

 

How can change be accomplished when no one is willing to take positive action in manifesting it? How can you get DIFFERENT results... if you're doing the same old thing?

 

What is bound to happen if you continue "standing on the sidelines" is that your circumstances will in fact NOT change until someone else get tired enough to change them. Again, you are just a passenger in the car while someone else is driving.

 

Mental illness is a pretty broad category though ... where do you draw the line? Do you include things like depression and anxiety?

 

Similarly for addiction, what sort of addictions are you thinking of specifically?

 

These kinds of mental illnesses are largely treatable.... most with fairly good success rates. Even bi-polar disease, when managed with the patient's sincere determination to be healthy, can result in people living normal lives. I've met bi-polars who do make their daily choices with a dedication toward keeping their illness under control. They take their medications, manage their stress, and make good choices about alcohol. It's do-able.

 

BUT.... sometimes these folks are very much like the untreated alcoholic, denying their condition, denying treatment. Even worse, many of them are UNAWARE that they are the one with the problem.

However, in order to stop tearing down the lives of those who love them, they MUST become proactive in their treatment plan. They not only have to acknowledge their disease, but they must also be willing to take control of it so that it's not running their life anymore or the lives surrounding them.

 

Unfortunately, like many alcoholics who won't accept treatment until AFTER they've hit rock bottom, so too is the case with mental illness. It's a scary thing to deal with for the folks who love these people. For example, bi-polars have a higher rate of suicide than most other folks. The temptation to enable them must be mind-bending.

 

Addicts are no different. In cases where the addiction is DRIVING choices and actions, there's nothing the partner can do to affect that. Drugs, alcohol, sex, and even sometimes the chemical reaction of Infatuation... all have their payoffs. When getting that "fix" becomes the priority for the addict, their partner has nothing to offer that will effectively trump that need, not as long as they're willing to tolerate or enable it. That said, sometimes when the partner withdraws... the addict will respond to that loss by changing his/her priorities.

 

Bottom line though... is that we can't make choices for other people. They have to make their own. All we can do is to set up the parameters which might make that choice easier for them.

[Ladyjane14]

You might want to consider opening up your own thread. Your story is interesting. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Sexless Marriage thread too and if that's been a big factor in emotional intimacy within your marriage.

 

Also, try typing into your browser the words, "the three states of mind in marriage, marriagebuilders" and read the article you find there. I think you'll see that you are in the state of withdrawal. The way back to intimacy, according to Harley is THROUGH conflict. I think you'll begin to see that "conflict" need not always be unhealthy when you examine it in that light.

[frannie]

It made me think, was I giving 100% to my marriage? Not at this point, but i sure did try.

 

Why am i still in this marriage? I think its because ive become numb to the pain. I weigh the pros and cons to D and its between not seeing my children everyday, which would devastate me, to just my happiness. At this point, there is just too much to lose.

 

Hello dilly, I feel like something of an interloper here, but I can't see what LadyJane is missing from your posts. You HAVE given 100%, and it was refused..? I have been there and done that in previous relationships. Thank heaven I was not married with children then... because when it was ignored, I left. I know that's not an easy proposition from a man who is married with children.

 

Maybe that makes me a sap, and a fool, and a listener to lines. Maybe it does.

 

But I have no idea, and neither will I ever, what it means to be a man with children he's scared to hurt, scared to lose. And neither are any of the women on this thread, comment as they may, those fears will never haunt them.

[WBAsmethwick]

Hi all, in response to you posts here is some more information (I did post a couple of days ago but it's not appeared yet).

 

I have known frannie for 3 years and we have been physical for two, just so you know. We realised the other was special very quickly and are in love. She loves me and I love her. Our intimacy isn't just physical, we have got to know each other very well, We talk for hours and discuss us and our relationship. We also discuss other things that are important to both of us. We have exposed each other to the music, books and films we both love. We are willing to try the things the other one likes and to be honest we are in synchronised about so many things. Soul mates may sound glib but it's how we are. All the things that make for a good relationship are there. Apart from one, the commitment from me.

 

I've got to the point of leaving my wife a couple of times and each time my need to be the best father I can be has stopped me. My wife and I haven't had sex for years, there is no intimacy at all and we don't have a relationship, other than through our children. So I should leave and have tried, but failed to. We have been married for 14 years and have two kids, 10 and 12. I stay for them. The state of the marriage is such that I don't want to put it right as there is nothing left in me that wants to.

 

I love my OW and she loves me. But both of us know that the only way forward is for me to leave, neither of us is happy in an affair. The stresses are to great for both of us (obviously much worse for her than me!).

 

So why did I post? Because all our discussions about what to always end up the same, I should leave, but cant because of my kids. I'm looking for input from you all. (And thanks for all you posts, I have a lot of reading to do )

[Ladyjane14]

So why did I post? Because all our discussions about what to always end up the same, I should leave, but cant because of my kids. I'm looking for input from you all. (And thanks for all you posts, I have a lot of reading to do )

 

Maybe the reason that you're having trouble leaving the kids is that you're assuming that you're some kind of great father. I've been reading Frannie's posts for a couple of years now, and if what she's telling us is accurate, you've been an ABSENT father in alot of ways.

 

What is it that you believe your children will carry away from all this?

 

Daddy comes home on the weekends. Daddy doesn't share affection with Mommy. Should your daughters, when grown to adulthood, not expect more from a man? Should your sons interact with their wives the way they were taught at your knee?

 

This apparently very important message about how to NOT have a successful marriage is the model you've put before them. I do hope you've put away enough cash so that you can at least bankroll their future divorces. It only seems fair.

 

 

Your wife is like an employee at this point, a cow locked up in the milking barn. She doesn't have the opportunity even to say if that's okay with her or not. She doesn't KNOW what I know about emotional intimacy. She doesn't know the comfort to be had in NOT facing this world ALONE. And that poor woman IS "alone" in all the ways that are emotionally meaningful. She's wasting more and more of her life every day.

 

You've stated that you haven't had sex in years. And apparently your answer to that was to go ahead and get it somewhere else rather than to RESOLVE THE PROBLEM. It never occurred to you that the marriage would be unsustainable, dripping from it's mortal wounds the way it was? You never loved that woman enough to do WHATEVER it took to staunch the flow? Even if it meant leaving her?

 

That sir, is cowardice. It's conflict avoidance at it's finest. (And p.s. to Frannie... conflict avoiders can't give 100%, regardless of whatever else they might tell you. )

 

 

Truly, I find the idea of "soulmates" to be laughable. In fact, every time I see a post around here which includes that particular terminology, I immediately conclude that the poster is lacking in emotional maturity. It rejects our right to CHOOSE.

 

I have to wonder if maybe you thought your wife was your "soulmate" at one point. You did marry her afterall. But look where THAT got her. Just another milk cow in the barn, with life and it's potential for true emotional intimacy with another human being just whizzing on by her. And her, poor stupid cow, completely in the dark about it.

 

Maybe that makes you two feel good about yourselves. You're tried and executed sentence on this BAD WIFE for her crimes, so she's gonna pay even if she's unaware of it. She doesn't even have the luxury of knowing she needs to rehabilitate herself or prepare for a life outside the BARN. I have to wonder if by the time she finishes her sentence if there will be anything left out there for her anyway. It's not like she's getting any younger or learning any new skills.

[Gunny376]

I've got to the point of leaving my wife a couple of times and each time my need to be the best father I can be has stopped me. My wife and I haven't had sex for years, there is no intimacy at all and we don't have a relationship, other than through our children. So I should leave and have tried, but failed to. We have been married for 14 years and have two kids, 10 and 12. I stay for them. The state of the marriage is such that I don't want to put it right as there is nothing left in me that wants to.

 

I love my OW and she loves me. But both of us know that the only way forward is for me to leave, neither of us is happy in an affair. The stresses are to great for both of us (obviously much worse for her than me!).

 

So why did I post? Because all our discussions about what to always end up the same, I should leave, but cant because of my kids. I'm looking for input from you all. (And thanks for all you posts, I have a lot of reading to do )

 

IMHO, you need to "man the ****" reach down and see if you've got a pair?! Get off the fence, and do what it is that you need to do, be that go with the OW or with the wife. Quit using the children as an excuse to not do make the hard choices and do the hard work that at hand regardless which path you choose.

 

If your marriage is as you described, and the wife is un-willing or un-able to be an active particpant in getting this mule and wagon out of the ditch and back on the road ~ then its time to openly and honestly tell her that's its over. Your not doing the children any favors by staying in a disfuntional marriage. My children DD (age 10 at the time), and DS (age 6) were overjoyed and very happy that Mama and Daddy had split and divorced and moved on to find other people that they were compatiable with and that complimented one another. And as a consequence, they themselves were happier.

 

I've read enough about divorce, Dear Abby, Ann Landers over the years, and have seen where grown adult children had wished their parents had divorced years ago ~ rather than live as they had to live because their parents choose to stay in a dysfuntional marriage.

 

Call it what you want ~ but what you've described isn't marriage.

 

Its as I told my wife ~ "I love you enough that I would rather see you happy with someone else than miserable with me. Call it separation, divorce ~ but I'm calling it quits.

 

No one ever said life and marriage is suppose to always be fun and easy ~ its not. And, the choices that we have to make would try King Solomon's soul.

 

True courage, honor, and integrity requires buy a common person doing that is what is necessary at the time. "Like" doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.

 

It takes two to make it, and one to break it. You can't be in a marriage by yourself ~ which from what you've described is what it sounds like your in ~ or at least a one-sided one.

 

Your in a martial comma ~ its not dead ~ but its not alive either. Either revive it or move on with your life, but in doing so be honest with yourself and everyone else.