Some days are worse than others..........

It seems like every day is a chance to "focus" on one specific hurtful event.

Todays "event" was the fact that my husband had put his GF's name in his text-message contact list under another GUYS name. And it was the ONLY name on his contact list. Okay, so all I can think about is the fact that he sat there and DELIBERATELY put it in there that way so that "I" wouldn't know it was her. I know that WS's are by nature hurtful, but for some reason, just the thought of him sitting there typing in this fake name, KNOWING FULL WELL the ONLY reason he was doing it was to keep ME from finding out made me incredibly sad. It made me feel very unloved, and very uncared for. And absolutely disrespected. He has said that he knew I'd be mad if I knew how much he called her. Duh. Not to mention how many times he must've sent messages, needing ONLY her name on his contact list!

Yesterdays "event" was the fact that I had only recently discovered that his "relationship" (EA) with this girl actually began in February 2004 (a year and a half ago!). I also realized that he would NOT have ended it had he NOT gotten "busted" by making sure she attended our annual summer party this year (and proceeded to flirt his butt off with her - creating mass-suspicion). In fact, I'm not even sure he has, although he swears "she is not worth it" and that he "has not communicated with her in any way." I'm not sure I believe that - they had emailed each other at their work addresses, so I will never know for sure. I also know that he would NOT have EVER confessed his affair. I guess he can compartmentalize fairly well, even though SOMETHING always suffers when one spouses' attentions are directed outside the marriage.

Its sadness, followed by anger, followed by hurt feelings, followed by sadness.

I wish that he had NOT gone to such great lengths to hide his EA. I wish he had NOT lied, and lied, and lied, when confronted. I wish I had NOT had to present evidence and back him into a corner before he would admit anything. How humiliating for me, how hurtful and disrespectful for him to behave that way.

There is no "easier" than others D-DAY, but I can't help but think that the relationship heals better when the WS confesses ON HIS OWN, spills ALL details, appears remorsefull (genuinely), becomes an "open-book", and accepts any and all craziness presented by their betrayed spouses.

My husband, of course, did NONE of the above, and has only recently begun to realize that this marriage is OVER if he doesn't "wise up." I really don't need to feel like this any more. I can't help but be resentful of his inability to make any of this easier on anyone but HIMSELF. Do you think its true that some situations (none of which are "good"), are easier to recover from? Or am I just crazy in thinking that he presented the WORST case possible by NOT confessing, NOT spilling details unless backed into a corner, and NOT appearing remorseful (he was defensive for weeks)? So you really end up with several "issues" - the betrayal, the lack of caring afterward, and the dishonesty (I know, the nature of these creatures) even AFTER the A is discovered.

I think what this whole thing truly represents is that your marriage went down and he sought consolation on aside, but at the same time didn't want to cheat on you physically. Even if the woman rejected him because he's married, he still didn't find another womna to be with her physically.

You should be relieved that it was just an EA. I understand how you feel, but you should concentrate on repairing your marriage, not digging up details from the past. When people take wrong actions, you can judge them. But when they have "wrong" feelings, you can't because they don't choose how they feel. He could have never talked to this woman and still his feelings for you would have been the same. He needed someone to fill the emotional gap he felt. And the damage is obvious because now he feels guilty and you are frustrated due to this EA.

Try to work on your marriage and re-build your love. Don't look back. He ultimately didn't want to hurt you. He hid the EA because he wanted to spare you. He didn't choose to let it all out and wash his guilt off his chest by hurting you. EA is something that is more in our heads than in reality. Now don't get me wrong, I completely understand why you feel that way; I would feel horrible too. But just choose to forgive him and fix the marriage. Start it all over again and don't hold it against him. Show him that you can be the sweet girl he once fell in love with again.

The only problem is that the sweet girl HE fell in love with, fell in love herself with a man of self-proclaimed high integrity, who promised his loyalty and honesty, and swore that all men who cheat are pigs.

This man helped the sweet-girl through a horrible divorce from a man who had molested her daughter, and had been screwing every girl that slowed down at their place of employment (yes, he even "did" my assistant - we worked at the same place).

This man KNEW his sweet girl had trust issues. Even so, I blindly trusted him because I had known him since we were teenagers. And I mean blindly. He was probably the only person on the planet that I could've trusted at the time.

He proceeded to develop a crush on a girl at work. From what I can deduce, HE called her approximately 97 times over the next year! And that is only HIS outgoing calls, NO incoming from her (those are not itemized). He admits a physical attraction to her, which he pursued, resulting in a period lasting two months where he called her 2,3, or 4 times a day! Plus, a lot of calls were on his way home from work, lasting exactly the time it takes to drive home (30 minutes). He admits they met for coffee on two occasions. This has continued up through this past July, even though she hasn't worked there in over a year.

I am NOT relieved it was "just" an EA, and would actually prefer a ONS that I could blame on biology. At this point, I cannot even be sure that it wasn't physical as well. As I told my husband, I cannot compete with his heart. She's only 24 (he's 44) and in the same line of work (a lot in common), but that is NOTHING compared to the feelings in his heart.

The details from this past are needed because I want to know at what point did it become okay for him to "want" someone else? And why? What is the "depth" of their deception? Did she know everything about us, whereas I should "not" know anything about "them"? Its been just two months since I've begun this discovery, and just a few days since the most recent revelation. And at what point does one decide there IS no more?

I need to know what to forgive before I make that choice.

What you need to forgive is that he hid the friendship from you. See it as a friendship rather than affair. He said cheaters are pigs and he didn't cheat on you. You are angry and feel betrayed, that's okay. Let it all out. But don't go too far in your resentment; please understand that sometimes the person who hurt us in not necessarily the bad guy. Just like when you apply for a film audition, you are hurt if they turn you down, but it doesn't mean they were unfair to you.

They only talked on the phone so it was merely a verbal friendship. Did they have cyber sex? Did they plan to be together? Probably not. Just because he was attracted to her doesn't mean he cheated. He actually didn't cheat on you. The part that is hurting you is that he hid their conversations and he actually found consolation wtih another girl.

I am very sorry for your daughter. I was molested too by the step-monster adn know how it feels. People with lots of baggage can be depressive sometimes. Men like it when their women are happy and cheerful. If you were into your past problems (not saying you were, I really don't know) it might have been non-appealing to him. As my mom said once: men are not social workers, they want a hppy woman.

The only thing you can do is re-gain trust. Now you know he wouldn't sleep with a woman. A ONS wouldn't make him a better man nor would it make you feel better. Then he would be a real pig. Just try to seduce him again.

It seems like every day is a chance to "focus" on one specific hurtful event.

 

Todays "event" was the fact that my husband had put his GF's name in his text-message contact list under another GUYS name. And it was the ONLY name on his contact list. Okay, so all I can think about is the fact that he sat there and DELIBERATELY put it in there that way so that "I" wouldn't know it was her. I know that WS's are by nature hurtful, but for some reason, just the thought of him sitting there typing in this fake name, KNOWING FULL WELL the ONLY reason he was doing it was to keep ME from finding out made me incredibly sad. It made me feel very unloved, and very uncared for. And absolutely disrespected. He has said that he knew I'd be mad if I knew how much he called her. Duh. Not to mention how many times he must've sent messages, needing ONLY her name on his contact list!

 

Yesterdays "event" was the fact that I had only recently discovered that his "relationship" (EA) with this girl actually began in February 2004 (a year and a half ago!). I also realized that he would NOT have ended it had he NOT gotten "busted" by making sure she attended our annual summer party this year (and proceeded to flirt his butt off with her - creating mass-suspicion). In fact, I'm not even sure he has, although he swears "she is not worth it" and that he "has not communicated with her in any way." I'm not sure I believe that - they had emailed each other at their work addresses, so I will never know for sure. I also know that he would NOT have EVER confessed his affair. I guess he can compartmentalize fairly well, even though SOMETHING always suffers when one spouses' attentions are directed outside the marriage.

 

Its sadness, followed by anger, followed by hurt feelings, followed by sadness.

 

I wish that he had NOT gone to such great lengths to hide his EA. I wish he had NOT lied, and lied, and lied, when confronted. I wish I had NOT had to present evidence and back him into a corner before he would admit anything. How humiliating for me, how hurtful and disrespectful for him to behave that way.

 

There is no "easier" than others D-DAY, but I can't help but think that the relationship heals better when the WS confesses ON HIS OWN, spills ALL details, appears remorsefull (genuinely), becomes an "open-book", and accepts any and all craziness presented by their betrayed spouses.

 

My husband, of course, did NONE of the above, and has only recently begun to realize that this marriage is OVER if he doesn't "wise up." I really don't need to feel like this any more. I can't help but be resentful of his inability to make any of this easier on anyone but HIMSELF. Do you think its true that some situations (none of which are "good"), are easier to recover from? Or am I just crazy in thinking that he presented the WORST case possible by NOT confessing, NOT spilling details unless backed into a corner, and NOT appearing remorseful (he was defensive for weeks)? So you really end up with several "issues" - the betrayal, the lack of caring afterward, and the dishonesty (I know, the nature of these creatures) even AFTER the A is discovered.

It is normal to ruminate on things like this. Some people suggest trying to just change your thought when you start thinking like this but I am not so sure. In some ways I think it is part of a healing process. Things cannot go back the way the were now. You have to take in all this information and build a new 'story of your marriage'.

No cheater is ever going to confess the full details voluntarily. In some ways I would be more suspicious of people who do this because I would wonder what the real motivation is. It's seems like it must be partly motivated by a desire to hurt the other person.

Your ruminating over small details is down to the fact that you probably can't take in his affair yet. It's a way of making it real and sure, it will hurt. All I can say to you is that you are right your husband would not have stopped this voluntarily. I have noticed that when you have a crush on someone it's not really about how you feel about that person (although it seems like that at the time). Instead it's more about how being around that person makes you feel about yourself. When I have had a crush on someone and am around that person, I feel so attractive, so interesting, so special etc etc Months later you can look at that person and feel nothing.

In your husband's defence, it was an EA therefore he does have some morals. I know it hurts but there is a BIG difference between flirting with a woman and chatting and opening your pants to her! It also sounds to me like your husband almost wanted to get caught. Why else would he flirt in front of you and the rest of his family? Maybe he was trying to get some attention from you who knows?

Having your trust slammed back in your face is hard I know but when I was in counselling I mentioned to my counsellor that I had trusted my husband 100%. His response was that that usually only occurs between a child and parents. Even in the best of relationships there is not usually 100% trust. It was hard to take because I wanted to trust someone 100% but over time I realise that perhaps my view of my husband was based a lot on fantasy. If I hadn't been so naive, I am sure I would have picked up the signs sooner about his a.

My only advice is try to keep busy. I know exactly how it feels to spend the whole day thinking over some small detail. make sure you are doing things for you, things you enjoy so that it doesn't take over your life completely! Or phone a friend for a good old bitching session!

Sylvia

P.S. I meant to say that your husband should give you access to his business email account so you can make sure there is NO contact.

An EA is an affair, and sometimes it can be worse- it depends on how you look at it. To me, it's worse for my husband to be emotionally intimate with another woman than physically and Jonesgirly sees it that way as well. Let's not insinuate to her that her hurt is less because it wasn't a physical affair- and really, at this point, we still don't know if it wasn't. I really have a problem believing he pursued this woman for all that time and nothing physical happened.

Jonesgirly, I'm not sure you're going to be able to get past this. Have you thought more about counseling? It would be a MUST in that situation if I were in your position, for both of you.

An EA is an affair, and sometimes it can be worse- it depends on how you look at it. To me, it's worse for my husband to be emotionally intimate with another woman than physically and Jonesgirly sees it that way as well. Let's not insinuate to her that her hurt is less because it wasn't a physical affair QUOTE]

 

i really hope that I didn't come across like that. I am not saying that an EA is not a 'proper' affair, all I am saying is that to give her husband his due, he stopped short of crossing that barrier.

 

I am not in the business of comparing affairs to see which are the most hurtful, but an emotional affair that becomes physical just means that there are a whole lot of other things to ruminate over.

I know that no one meant to imply that an EA is "better" than a PA. We are also aware that, at this point, I'm not sure that it wasn't supersized into a EA/PA combo!

Like you, Ms.Pixie, I feel worse because of the LENGTH and DEPTH of intimacy in his relationship with this person. And lets not forget to throw in the fact that he was physically attracted to her, and DID pursue her! So actually, I'm not sure exactly how much "credit" I should give my husband

You're also right, Ms.Pixie, about my inability to "get over this." That was kinda my point earlier - there is nothing I can trust about him now, and I may NOT be able to get over this. I'm kind of there now, and thats what my question was heading towards.

When your spouse in involved in an emotional affair, there are no "physical" clues........no need to leave the house for a "quickie" with her - just call her! No need to be late coming home from work - talk to her all the way home (even after working with her all day)! No need to be away from me at all - he can think about her all the time - even while having a conversation with me or whatever! How in the heck do you ever know that your spouse has decided that you're "enough", that he loves only you "enough" to not need another person on an intimate, emotional level. There is no way - he hid it before, he can hide it again. There is no investigator on the planet that can read his mind or diagnose his heart. Its tough to believe what he "says", because he's lied so much.

I guess I really am stuck, and end up answering most of my own questions as I type this. I know that I should seek a marriage counselor, basically for myself. My self-esteem is shot, and I can barely look at him without thinking that I just wasn't enough to hold his attention, that he had desires for another person even though he would swear to me his undying love, etc. But because it WASN'T a physical affair, what I am comparing myself to is not a younger, firmer woman, but rather the attention of my husbands heart. How in the hell is that supposed to work out when he couldn't even control it (or chose not to)?

You're right, Ms.Pixie, I do keep ending up with that thought - that I may not be able to get past this. I guess it really is a personal-level decision about the "degree" of infidelity. All I know is that being lied to and betrayed with an emotional affair lasting a year and a half (out of a three year marriage) is pretty significant.

Jonesgirly, is there any way for us to console you? Cuz we're trying hard here...

Seriously, women differ in their acceptance of certain things, but I personally think that an EA is forgivable to a certain point while a PA is unforgivable. Just like it's not a sin to desire to smoke and dream of cigarettes... but buying and lighting a cigarette is a conscious act. I am giving this example as: you can't control people's feelings. You can't demand from them to think you're the best or love you or think like you or enjoy your company. Just like falling in love with another person and cheating with them is bad, but falling in love with another and divorcing (without cheating) is not immoral, although it might hurt the left party much more.

So let's split this EA in two parts:

1. He enjoyed talking to another woman and found her attractive (big deal!), because he lacked something in the marriage - this is not necessarily your fault! You deal with hurt vanity and the feeling that is screaming out of your chest is: I wanted to be the only woman you're interested in.

2. He lied and hid the friendship with her. That's the part he should be sorry for. Because if you knew about this connection between them, it would've hurt you, but you would have dealt with the facts and feelings only, not with lies and betrayal in addition.

Unfortunately, the first point, which is the uncontrollable one, hurts you even more than the lies. It's not that he lied as much as it's why he lied.

If I were you, I would give him a hard time about it first (just to show him how much I am hurt and to leave bitter taste in his mouth for what he did as well as show him that he can't get away with it), but that shouldn't be done in a mean way. If you fight with him, call him names, yell, etc. he will only get defensive. You should simply let him know in a civilized way how much he hurt you. It should hurt him too. He should remorse from the bottom of his heart.

Then I would work on my marriage. Most marriages have a few common problems (not necessarily applicable in your case):

1. Incompatibility (a down-to-earth simple mind with an intellectual dreamer; a serious, family type with a partying, fun-loving idle mind; a couch potato-beer drinker with an active, busy, and ambitious character; etc.) - hard to solve and work on;

2. Communication problems (best to be solved with a third party - MC)

3. Problems that make the marriage stressful (financial issues, interfering in-laws, problematic children from previous marriages, too many obligations, no free time, medical problems such as depression, problems related to work/career/unrealized professional goals, etc.) - also hard to resolve but worth trying;

4. Lost romance - obviously the best way to solve this is to try and do all the romantic things again, have days or evenings just for the two of you, try harder in the bedroom, kiss more often, etc.

5. Marital monotony - this is probably the biggest reason why spouses seek excitement outside the marriage. Partners who are no more cheerful around us, dedicated, attentive, affectionate and no longer admire our personalities.

jonesgirl I just had to post. I'm thinking RecordProducer is actually your husbands girlfriend or she's just not seeing the reality of the situation. Your husband was not having friendship with this girl and we all know it. You can understand if its a friend, but this was way beyond that. I know because I'm a guy, and I know what goes on in the mind when you spend a lot of time being friends with a girl when you're married. He has spent a lot of time and energy on this girl and you have every right to feel as violated as you do. Your marriage obviously suffered because of him. I read your other posts and there is way more detail there that lead me to this conclusion. Sorry so short, but not much else to say other than sorry for you, and its justified..

jonesgirl I just had to post. I'm thinking RecordProducer is actually your husbands girlfriend or she's just not seeing the reality of the situation. Your husband was not having friendship with this girl and we all know it. You can understand if its a friend, but this was way beyond that. I know because I'm a guy, and I know what goes on in the mind when you spend a lot of time being friends with a girl when you're married. He has spent a lot of time and energy on this girl and you have every right to feel as violated as you do. Your marriage obviously suffered because of him. I read your other posts and there is way more detail there that lead me to this conclusion. Sorry so short, but not much else to say other than sorry for you, and its justified..

Good post reply CharlesEric.

As I told my husband, I cannot compete with his heart. She's only 24 (he's 44) and in the same line of work (a lot in common), but that is NOTHING compared to the feelings in his heart.

The thing is, this OW cannot compare to YOU. She doesn't have the history, the family, the friends, neighbours, the daily in's and out's of life, good, bad and the ugly. All she got was the "fantasy" part that fed from the crush-like-obsession feelings from him. That kept on being fed and ofcourse messed up his head which messed up his emotions and feelings.

Check out DazednConfused's thread (do a search on his name, just as I typed it) and read his story. It's very long, but worth the read. It's called wife made stupid mistake and it's in this section too, just not sure what page it's on.

Hang in there, and I do hope you have some support from family and friends. Or even a one on one therapist, just so you can talk about what you're feeling.

Jonesgirly,

I will not continue to justify anything I have said. I know it is difficult to see anything positive at the moment and I do know how devastating an EA affair is. I thought for 9 months that my H had had an EA and I felt pretty much the same as you. Things like this do squash your self-esteem and I would recommend indivual counselling. It helped me just get out of bed in the morning.

not[/i] a younger, firmer woman, but rather the attention of my husbands heart. How in the hell is that supposed to work out when he couldn't even control it (or chose not to)?

QUOTE]

 

It wasn't that YOU weren't enough to hold his attention. It's more like comparing a long-term relationship with the thrill of a new relationship. Some people just can't say no when they are faced with that kind of thrill. If he had been married to the OW, chances are he would have done the same to her. This is about your husband, not about you.

I'm thinking RecordProducer is actually your husbands girlfriend

I can't believe this comment!

or she's just not seeing the reality of the situation.

Actually I am seeing the objective reality, while I can't see what advise and consolation YOU offered. I am trying to help this woman find peace and comfort as much as she can and re-build her marriage. I didn't say she should be happy about the EA and not feel betrayed!!! But I don't see how telling her how miserable she should feel would help her.

Jonesgirly, I hope you saw my point of view and understood where I was coming from. I feel for you, I really do.

Sorry so short, but not much else to say other than sorry for you, and its justified..

Obviously you didn't have much to say...

Thanks, CharlesEric, your post absolutely cracked me up. I really enjoy the way guys "cut to the chase" and don't mince words. You hit the mark when you said that this was NOT a "friendship" for my husband. He has friends (female) from high school, etc. that he talks/emails often, but this situation was a whole 'nother ball game. The biggest difference being the secrecy and lengths to which he hid it from me. In addition, his physical attraction and active pursuit of "tail" kinda seals the deal, as you very quickly understood. Your reply was important to me because it was from a mans perspective, and validated my feelings.

Sometimes thats all people are looking for. Each situation and person is different, thats why it is so important to gain outsiders' perspective on it.

I appreciate your suggestion, sylviaguardian, about keeping busy. It does help that I have a fairly stressful job (it keeps my mind focused elsewhere). I really do feel better during the work-week, when there is not the free time afforded by the weekend to "mull over" the situation. Your reply and comments need absolutely no justification - everyones' perspective is appreciated by me, and it really does help knowing that I am not alone. You're right that he probably really enjoyed the thrill of it all, although he isn't really the thrill-seeking, "new love", excitement junkie, that you would expect to fall into that trap. Because he is such a serious intellectual type, it made his emotional attachment to this girl a little more "deep" in my eyes, just because of his deep-thinking nature.

And I know that MY self-esteem shouldn't suffer, but I guess anyone would eventually come to the point where they wonder - what is it about ME that just couldn't hold him?". Logically, I know its HIS problem, but emotionally, well I just go to the "whats so bad about me?" place.

Oh, and I wish I could have access to his work email, but no. He works for a large corporation, with no outside-the-building access to their intranet. I'm sure he's deleted all of their emails anyway. He's been fairly thorough in covering his tracks.

Ms.Pixie, thanks again for understanding - you obviously know where I"m coming from.

And I'm glad you found his post (CharlesEric's) pretty good too, whichwayisup, - funny, yet exactly right on, in that "guy" way of saying things, don't you think?

I've read dazedandconfused's story and it is quite insightful. Well-written and very detailed emotional expression. I also think your idea for me to see a counselor is a good one and I've actually been leaning that way myself. I guess it would be marriage counseling, but it will end up to be just individual. Thanks again for your input.

And RecordProducer - are you sure you're not the girlfriend?

Seriously though, I know where you're coming from, but maybe I'm not there right now. I'm not looking for consolation, as there is really nothing short of telling me I was only dreaming, that could make me feel better. We both have opposite-sex friends, but he admits this situation crossed the line. Yes, he has been apologetic and remorseful lately, but that is only after the five weeks of HElllll I went through discovering the details, listening to his lies and denials, and then being treated to his emotional rollercoaster ride (runaway man, etc.). I do want to find peace at least within myself, and either move on or help to repair the damage. I can tell that you hold your man to the same high standards that I do. Each person has their own personal threshold for "violations" of the relationship, and they each should be fully aware of such. In my case, my husband will readily admit that if I were to have behaved in the same manner it would NOT have been tolerated by him. This proves to be rather insightful, for me at least, indicating with certainty that this was pretty much NOT a "friendship" (although I already knew this).

Sometimes people need to know that their misery is justified. That they are not going crazy for feeling like they've lost an important part of the most important relationship in their lives. It takes quite an adjustment to ignore that missing piece and move forward. Especially when the missing piece is the biggest "piece of the pie". In my case, it was the loss of trust, the betrayal, the denial, and the lies, that deleted an important part of my marriage, and was replaced with suspicion. That pretty much sucks, for lack of better wording. His lack of concern and caring after he had wounded my heart beyond belief, placed a new feeling into our marriage along with suspicion (apathy). I know I need to "toughen up", but damn, thats not what I signed up for here. We were BOTH aware of each others "special needs" (not the short bus type), and only ONE of us protected them. It just sucks (again, I can't think of better wording).

In addition, RecordProducer, I was reading some of your earlier posts (I always do a background check ) and was wondering about that status of your relationship with the guy from here (the U.S). Anything new? Also, what kind of music do you write/compose/play? You probably haven't heard of Eminem, but I live very near where he is from, and just a few miles from the infamous "8 Mile" that he made into a movie a couple of years ago. Really nothing important, just a random thought.

So Everyone I sincerely appreciate your replys - all of them. It seems as though when you're in a place like "this", its great to have input from ALL directions, which I'm sure all of YOU have enjoyed at one time in this place called the loveshack.

Ohhhh, I get it now! No, hun, I ABSOLUTELY support your feelings. I am the first one here to claim that people shouldn't run away from their feelings and if the marriage is unrepairable, they should rather quit it than suffer.

I was just more concentrated on your future and what you might want to do about your marriage rather than on your curent feelings. But I said it twice and I will say it again - I feel for you and understand how you feel. I would feel the same if not even worse.

was wondering about that status of your relationship with the guy from here (the U.S). Anything new? Also, what kind of music do you write/compose/play?

You can visit my web site: http://www.IrenaSongs.com and hear some of my work. I did the songs all by myself in my studio. The songs there are pop, but i make other genres as well. My relationship is still blooming and everything is fine. Regarding the future... I don't want to jinx anything right now.

You probably haven't heard of Eminem

:lmao:

Eminem is globally popular!

I thought I'd mention that I think you're doing great JG

Hang on in there hun!

Big hugs

veron x

I thought I'd mention that I think you're doing great JG

 

Agreed. I would never again want to go through that period that you are going through. All I can say is that, whatever happens, the pain becomes duller. Seems unbelievable now I know, but it happens.

 

Syl

You guys are swell, and thanks for the encouragement.

I'm kind of in a funk right now, I guess. For all practical purposes, I'm functioning just fine at work, etc., but I have absolutely no interest in anything at home. By "at home", I mean my husband.

I think you reach a point when you look at your spouse and just think "you are NOT who I thought you were and that is NOT my fault." I told him a few weeks ago that I though he could be legally charged with fraud.

I've reached a point that I realize that there is never going to be any guarantee of honesty, and that I had only THOUGHT there was prior to this situation. This must be the place you go to when you realize that you cannot trust the person you married. That this person should not be entrusted to hold "my" well-being as an important matter. And I don't mean that my spouse is responsible for my "happiness", but rather, that "we" as a couple, have a genuine, on-going interest in each others' well-being.

I could spend my hours obsessing over whether or not he still talks/email/chats/meets/whatever with her, but I feel like its much safer to just not care. And its not like I DON'T care, its just that if he wants to do it, he'll find a way. And there would be absolutely nothing I could do to stop it. He will continue to maintain control (or lack of) over his own self, and I will do the same. I just know that I am not capable of the things that he has done.

And I think thats what has changed in my mind. I look at myself differently (obviously not special "enough" for him!), I look at him differently (not quite the man of integrity that I thought!), and this has completely changed our relationship.

I know he is trying in his own way, I guess. He will sit around all night while I have my wine and watch stupid tv or whatever, but he really doesn't know what to say. He will ask if I "have anything to say" and frankly, I just don't. Do I feel like sharing my feelings with him? NO. Do I even feel like talking about the mess HE created? NO. He will eventually leave the room and go watch tv in bed or whatever. HE never has anything to say. Well, anything other than "how about the weather?". I realize I shouldn't expect him to initiate a discussion on the "state of the union", but dammnit the only reason we're in this "state" is because of HIM.

Is there a denial phase you go through? Or is there some sort of an "I don't give a s***" phase?

It sucks that I think of all the opportunities "I" have had to make a "mistake" (as he calls it), and didn't. And then I think about all the times he chose to talk/call/see her and then hide it from me. Even when he admitted that he knew I would be upset if I knew what he was doing, he continued. What in the he!! kind of person does that, and then expects their spouse to "understand" their mistake?

For whatever reason, he chose to spend a year and a half working on a relationship outside of our marriage. That took a lot of time and energy on his part, as well as his "division" of loyalty. I know that HIS needs will always come first, second, and third to him, and that I fall somewhere down the line a bit.

I wonder when a person realizes that, as much as they do love their spouse, the wounds inflicted by them are indeed fatal to the relationship. There's a calm to me now that kind of scares me. No more craziness (wondering when, why, how) and no more obsessive "checking on" him. I really just can't care. I wonder if months and months of emotional wreckage are worth it, if the outcome is exactly how I feel right now. I guess thats only a question I can answer. I just wonder if its worth it. Do I really want to spend the rest of my life with a man who obviously doesn't hold me in the same high-regard as I do him? And even though he says it will "never happen again" and that he realizes how important I am to him NOW, will this person need a reminder-check ever so often? Will he become complacent, or whatever he "became" again? I know, there's no guarantees any time, any where.....but I never really needed some sort of guarantee before - it was just assumed when we were married.

Do I sound like I'm ready to give up, or is this a temporary "funk"?

Nah, I think you're beginning to realize that it's time to give up and it hurts.

IMO, the real issue here is that you guys have only been married three years and that he spent 18 months of that going after someone else. That speaks volumes, and I'm not sure something I could put up with.

To me, it's different if someone has an affair (no less painful though) after a long marriage, where things are not right and the other partner refuses to work on the marriage. I'm not saying that just because it happened to me either. Then, that person makes a mistake or is caught and then is repentant for what they did. They do everything to make it right again. That is different than what he's done. At three years you should still be newlyweds.

That is the real reason why I think you might be better to cut your losses on this one.

JG,

i don't think that this is a 'temporary funk', neither do I think that you're at the end of the road. I think you are going through a necessary stage of readjustment in the way you view your relationship, yourself, the world etc. When something earth-shattering happens, we don't work through it in days, weeks or even months. It is an ongoing process with many stages.

Lady jane once told me that when you are ready for divorce it is a no-brainer. You are not at that stage yet. My guess is that it will take you a long time to assess things and make up your mind what you want to do. Be patient.

I could spend my hours obsessing over whether or not he still talks/email/chats/meets/whatever with her, but I feel like its much safer to just not care. And its not like I DON'T care, its just that if he wants to do it, he'll find a way. And there would be absolutely nothing I could do to stop it. He will continue to maintain control (or lack of) over his own self, and I will do the same.

This is progress - you are beginning to hand the responsibility for his behaviour over to him. YOu are right - you cannot stop him if he wants to. All you can do is know that your own behaviour is acceptable.

And I think thats what has changed in my mind. I look at myself differently (obviously not special "enough" for him!), I look at him differently (not quite the man of integrity that I thought!), and this has completely changed our relationship.

No-one would have been 'special enough' to stop him having an affair. The affair is about what HE is lacking in himself, not you.

It sucks that I think of all the opportunities "I" have had to make a "mistake" (as he calls it), and didn't.

As I said, you didn't do it because you didn't need to. You didn't need the ego-boost, he does for whatever reason. It can never suck to be a person of integrity, even when everyone around you is lying and cheating.

I wonder when a person realizes that, as much as they do love their spouse, the wounds inflicted by them are indeed fatal to the relationship.

This can happen. But I don't think you are there yet.

Take your time JG - the ball's in your court now. There is no need to make a decision. Look after yourself, go out have fun, get your hair done etc. Do things that help you- the rest will fall into place.

Sylvia

Sylvia is right- Jonesie- no one is special enough. It's really not about the betrayed spouse it's about something that the cheating spouse is getting from the other person. They can be uglier, fatter, poorer, trashy, classy- whatever. It's not them so much as the need that being in the relationship with them is bringing to that person.....

Sylvia is right- Jonesie- no one is special enough. It's really not about the betrayed spouse it's about something that the cheating spouse is getting from the other person. They can be uglier, fatter, poorer, trashy, classy- whatever. It's not them so much as the need that being in the relationship with them is bringing to that person.....

I agree. Sylvia is right. Not only about this one aspect, but in EVERY post she's made on this thread.

The only thought I would add is to this one:

Take your time JG - the ball's in your court now. There is no need to make a decision. Look after yourself, go out have fun, get your hair done etc. Do things that help you- the rest will fall into place.

While it's true that you don't have to make a decision yet, there is an aspect of reactive anger that can end up making your decisions for you.

I think it would be a great thing for you to work at rediscovering the simple pleasures of life. It will be beneficial to your wounded self-esteem to invite joyfulness back into your day-to-day. These may seem to be small things, but they can make a REALLY positive difference in your outlook.

If you decide on a period of stasis, however, it's important that you don't negatively interfere with it. You eliminate the choices that you're trying to preserve when you do.

Your husband can NEVER pay you back for the suffering he's caused you.

Reactive Anger will not bring any payment forth. There is NO coin with which he can repay this debt.

So, here you are.....left in a state of frustrated hurt, with no relief in sight, and LOTS of questions. It's a very uncomfortable place to be. I've been there myself, so I know.

Your choices are:

1. To end the marriage.

2. To work on the marriage.

3. Or, to defer the decision until you've gained some emotional clarity.

Choice #1 is fairly self-explanatory. It sucks for awhile, but people do

recover. Sometimes the personal recovery time is of an even shorter duration that of those folks who choose reconciliation.

Choice #2 is less clear-cut than it would appear. Because "working on the marriage" doesn't include 'working on your partner'. You can only "work on" YOU.

Initially, I had a really difficult time wrapping my mind around that. I mean, one of the first things that occurred to me is that I had been making mistakes in the relationship. Somehow, this had to be my fault...at least in part.

So, I set about changing the things that I had been doing wrong. I already knew intuitively that I could NOT change my husband, only myself. And I got REALLY good results on the changes I had made on my own behavior. He bounced back like a plant you'd forgotten to water for a month finally getting a good soaking.

Trouble was....I felt like a shmuck. HE was the one who was wrong, but I was the one doing all the changing. At least that's how it appeared to me at the time.

I'm not going to say that I NEVER think that way anymore. Truth to tell....when I get mad, sometimes I still go there.

But overall, I LIKE the new me. I like the person who is willing to look at the situation from every angle, and to take personal responsibility for her own behavior in the relationship. I didn't like the 'me' who felt victimized.

I like the 'me' that lets other people's problems be THEIRS, and not mine. I don't have to personalize somebody else's problem. I can step outside of it, recognize it, and take appropriate action if necessary.

For example, Hubby comes home grumpy and waspish with everyone in the household. I ASSUME that it's about him and NOT about me. He could be tired, hungry, or aggravated about a work situation. When I don't assume it's about me.....I'm free to give him some quiet time for a nap, feed him, or make some time to listen to his frustrations.

So, anyway...that's what works for me. It remains as your choice to see what works for you. You'll get there. It probably doesn't seem that way right now.....but you WILL eventually reach some kind of resolution. Sometimes all you need is time and patience.

That said, if you need more time in making your decision, as in Choice #3, the best thing you can do is to NOT exacerbate the problem. Don't let your anger make your choices FOR you.

So, I set about changing the things that I had been doing wrong. I already knew intuitively that I could NOT change my husband, only myself. And I got REALLY good results on the changes I had made on my own behavior. He bounced back like a plant you'd forgotten to water for a month finally getting a good soaking.

Trouble was....I felt like a shmuck. HE was the one who was wrong, but I was the one doing all the changing. At least that's how it appeared to me at the time.

I'm not going to say that I NEVER think that way anymore. Truth to tell....when I get mad, sometimes I still go there.

But overall, I LIKE the new me. I like the person who is willing to look at the situation from every angle, and to take personal responsibility for her own behavior in the relationship. I didn't like the 'me' who felt victimized.

LJ,

This just shows what an incredibly smart lady you are. This is the sort of thread that makes it worth coming on LS for - you can actually learn something

You guys really are sanity-savers here at LS. I've read over the posts about a krillion times in the last few weeks, just to feel so not-alone. I appreciate the time and thoughtfulness that goes into each and every reply. I haven't told anyone on the planet all of this - its both embarrassing and humiliating, and I know its not a good thing to spill your private troubles onto the general population if you expect any kind of positive outcome. I'd much rather NOT have people I know, or work with, give me that poor-you-your-husband-is-a-playa-whats-wrong-with-you look.

I know, I just re-read that last sentence, and its not that there's anything wrong with ME. It is HIS character flaw, not mine, and I shall indeed continue living my life the way I want to - honestly and openly, with integrity.

I remain in a kind of sad-funk. Its okay, I know, because there is a lot to be sad for. And thanks to you all, I feel that way. I'm not trying to push myself to feel happy, because there is a REASON I feel this way.

I realized this weekend why I had been feeling so upset for the last couple of weeks - basically since the most recent revelation that he had put his GF's name and number in his cellphone under a "guys" name. I guess the knowledge that he, at some point during the "relationship", chose to sit down and willfully cover up his betrayal. This left absolutely NO room for me to kid myself into thinking that "hey - maybe they were JUST friends". I guess I had been subconsciously hoping for a "better" explanation all along, and could no longer fool even myself. You were right ladies - they LIE in the beginning, in the middle, and right up to the end - unless you've got evidence in black-n-white, they'll try to cover their tracks and deny it all.

This revelation is probably what started my sad funk. I knew at that point I would have to decide whether or not I wanted to live with this man who could so carelessly toss me aside for the "fun" of another. I knew I'd have to come down off that mountain of being the "special one" to my husband. That no, I'm not anyone special, no one to cherish, no one to respect, etc.

Okay, now I sound depressed. Thank god I'm not an idiot and can actually read my own posts. I think I go into that "third person" thing where you speak as if you're talking about someone else.

This too shall pass.

I hate it when my husband will ask me "what can I do?" or "what can I say"? He wants me to tell him what to do in order to make all this "right", and I can't come up with anything. In fact, just because he wants me to TELL him what to do is enough to pi$$ me off. I've spent a lot of hours thinking about this situation, writing here and reading the advice I've been given, etc., and I guess he's just been too busy to do any REAL thinking about it.

I'm still not at the point where its a "no-brainer" about wanting a divorce. I'm where I should be - upset that I have to learn to accept that I wasn't what I thought I was to my husband. It was so much more fun to feel safe and secure, content in the knowledge that I respected and loved my husband enough to not want another, and he felt the same.

Now I sound like I'm feeling sorry for myself. Okay, I'm allowed.....for a little while.

I do intend to work on myself. That really is my only concern at this point. It has done absolutely no good for me to concern myself with how my husband is feeling - that obviously didn't matter. Its done me no good to worry about "his" needs or well-being, that feeling was never reciprocated. If I were to be completely honest, I would have to admit that my husband is indeed a very selfish man, concerned only with his own feelings. He is the guy that will come home after work and not even mutter a "hi" to his kids or me for that matter. I've excused his behavior so long, while at the same time tried to get him to see that he affects his kids in a HUGE way, but doesn't realize it. I've run "damage control" between him and his ex-wife (and some of his older kids), encouraged all of his kids to respect the man, and tried like he!! to help him out with other "issues" he may be unwilling to deal with. I've also tried to keep myself in decent shape, try to be well-dressed, and reasonably attractive.

I've tried to remain open-minded at "night" and spoke to him honestly regarding any issues (i.e., - don't forget I'm in bed with you too!).

Okay, now I'm rambling.

I wonder how long it will take to get out of this funk, to be able to somehow be able to move-on in whatever direction I should go, and just get "over it." Or not.