Action plan for someone who has never dated

So I'm 24 and have never dated anyone in my life. Everything else in my life has been fine. I'm a devout Catholic. I've finished grad school and have an interesting and socially respected job. However, my problems in relationships have persisted and they deserve my complete attention.

My problem has 2 parts: finding people and then being attractive to them. I know that confidence is a problem for both parts because I have been attracted to a couple of people in the past. I had people in my social circle I was attracted to, but never had a chance with. Maybe if I were more confident and smooth it would've been different.

I had a bit of a plan:

Finding

Get dates - make it a habit to ask everyone and anyone I meet outside of my social circle when circumstances permit

Join another interest group

Attractiveness

Work on physical attractiveness - gym, new clothes

Learn some 'game' - routines etc

What are concrete things I should be doing? Lots of people says I'm 'nice' and a great catch and all that, but I feel so unattractive and shattered. That's not going to change unless I do something.

Join the gym for you not for anyone else. It WILL give you confidence. Others will pick up on that. People like confidence. Change your style of dress? You are who you are. Don't sweat that. It also comes down to the meeting the right person. What you're doing is fine. It'll come. You COULD be a little bolder. Baby steps though. Ease into it. By bold I mean talking to those you're attracted to. Show interest.

It seems to me like being a Catholic is to your advantage, in this situation, if you're devout. I feel like devoutly religious girls are happy to have a guy who has less experience, because they are often very sheltered and have less experience themselves. Have you tried meeting girls through church functions?

It seems to me like being a Catholic is to your advantage, in this situation, if you're devout. I feel like devoutly religious girls are happy to have a guy who has less experience, because they are often very sheltered and have less experience themselves. Have you tried meeting girls through church functions?

Good point.

I also like how you're coming here with a plan, rather than a long list of whiny grievances.

Hey there User12345,

Great question. I think it says a lot about a person who wants to be proactive about their life.

I think the best way to approach this is to figure out what you want in the first place. It sounds like you are trying to improve yourself to attract others. But lets get specific here, "what exactly do you want to attract?". More specifically, what kind of women do you want to be with? If i were you, I would do the following:

1. Write down all the characteristics of the women you want to be with in the first place. Is she someone who likes to travel? Smart? Classy and elegant? Fun but low-maintenance? Figure out what qualities you want to see most.

2. Ask yourself, what kind of person do you need to become to attract this quality women. Do you yourself need to be someone who tries something new all the time if the women you want to be with has an adventurous spirit? Do you need to workout more if the women of your dreams is a health nut?

3. Go ahead and become that person. Go out and do the activities that will turn you into that person.

Anyways, this is what I think. I hope this helps. Let me know what you think/add/subtract.

Best of Luck!

Thanks for your replies.

Roman, Zen: the social cost of being forward and failing in that context is high. Also have been brought up to be so respectful of distance to strangers initially, and it feels like betrayal to try and turn someone who thinks you've only wanted to be friends into something more.

Already failed there once, so I need to "practice" being attractive elsewhere first. I'm thinking online dating might be worth a try for that. I haven't had the will or the guts to drive to another town and try cold approaches at a bar, but maybe I have to. Thoughts?

ShaneGroove: good questions. I know what I want - someone beautiful, articulate, loving to family and friends, moral and not too fussed about life's little things - and on paper I think I have what I need, except for looks, which I'm working on. It's the hidden criteria that I haven't been able to meet. I don't just want to appeal to someone's logical side, but also to their visceral side.

What activities change people to have that certain something? I do toastmasters and am confident of making jokes in front of large groups, and that doesn't do it. That's why I thought 'game', but I would much rather a constructive activity.

Bro,

The great thing about women is that looks are not as important as how men value them. What I think women care about more is how you make them feel. You can't control your height or your ethnicity or the natural way you look.

However, you can control the fact that your well groomed and take care of your body. You can also control how you dress.

For instance, the women that you desire what kind of archetype is she? Is she a jeans and shirt kind of gal? Is she a women who is dressed to impressed? Is she a club goer? A biker chick? Fitness Nut? The women who you picture will probably fall in an archetype.

I would dress the part of the archetype to be able to attract that woman.

If you have any more questions don't hesitate to private message me bro!

Thanks for your replies.

 

Roman, Zen: the social cost of being forward and failing in that context is high. Also have been brought up to be so respectful of distance to strangers initially, and it feels like betrayal to try and turn someone who thinks you've only wanted to be friends into something more.

 

Already failed there once, so I need to "practice" being attractive elsewhere first. I'm thinking online dating might be worth a try for that. I haven't had the will or the guts to drive to another town and try cold approaches at a bar, but maybe I have to. Thoughts?

You can try it. As long as you're practicing, I think you'll fail. Nobody wants to be practice-dated and most women over the age of 18 will know something is up if you're just practicing. I suggest you actually bear the emotional cost of real dating (and thus the potential for real pain and rejection and social costs and such, which seems higher than it is, honestly) rather than practicing.

But I get what you mean if you don't want to approach random girls at the church. Just be on the lookout for the right one while there. That's a big connecting factor---if you have the same values.

Shane, when you talk about 'how they feel', what do you mean? How is this any easier to control than looks, other than by changing the clothes I wear (by your theory I need to wear more formal clothing). My experience of making other people attracted is so scattergun and out of my control - it may as well be random.

zen, how then do you get a foothold in this 'real' world of dating? It's hard to learn any of the attractiveness skills needed to get someone you're interested in without having putt them into practice anywhere, but it's hard to practice as you say when you're not really into it.

Hi OP,

As a fellow devout Catholic who has been through the same thing for rather more years, perhaps I can help you a bit.

I think that more interest groups are good. A useful resource is Meetup.com, which has many groups in a wide variety of areas. I would say find a couple that you will honestly enjoy for their own sake. This has been a fairly key point for me. Many times I've gone to events that I did not otherwise feel interested in for the sole purpose of meeting women. That has rarely worked out well for me. I find that it sets up a bad psychological state where I'm bored and don't really want to be there. When I talk to women I'm not in a happy and relaxed state, and then immediately resentful if they don't show interest because after all I'm there only to meet them. On the other hand, when I go to events that I enjoy for their own sake, talking to women is easier. If the conversation goes well that's great, if it doesn't go well at least I'm having fun anyway.

Make sure your job is not just "socially respected" but immensely meaningful to YOU. If it's not consider doing something else, even though you just finished your schooling. Don't set out to make yourself a perfect “provider husband” before you actually have a woman and family to provide for. Even though it's hard to understand, I think that is actually unattractive to many women, even good Catholic woman.

I would say don't make your search for women the sole focus of your attention. I know it's tempting to tell yourself that you have everything else in place except this, and that you want to focus your attention. That didn't work out so well for me either. It is now my opinion that a woman does not want to be the sole focus of your attention and may actually find that unattractive. It is my suspicion that a woman wants a man who is powerfully engaged in some worthwhile endeavor that means a lot to him, whether that is his job or something else. She does not want to feel that she is the only thing interesting in your life right now. You might read “Wild at Heart” by John Eldredge--I think he is onto something.

Therefore, I think it's very important that you continue to be active in the world. In my own life I think of this as trying to find God's plan for my life (ASIDE from marriage) and trying to make the world better according to my understanding of His plan. I think you should devote the majority of your time and attention and energy to that, and make sure that you spend only a minority of your time and attention directly pursuing a relationship with a woman. Again, a practical level it is my opinion that if you focus too much on finding a relationship with a woman you will actually give off a subtle vibe that women pick up on and do not like.

If you are engaged in the world in something that you care about, something that you really in your deepest heart feel is very worthwhile, you will naturally work hard to see it succeed. You will have a tendency to move into positions of leadership, which is attractive. I find that when I am focused intently on a goal like this, I also develop natural confidence. I KNOW what I'm doing is important and worthwhile, and that comes across in my manner when I talk to women along the way. This is the kind of true confidence that is impossible to completely equal with game.

You might try online dating as you say, but honestly it is a tough game for men. My experience is I spent years figuring out how to do it, and I did eventually succeed in getting a number of dates. However, the problem is that women have very little ability to know whether they will be attracted to a man without meeting in person. It's not a fault, it's just that the “chemistry” they feel is not based on looks but on interpersonal interaction and other things that can't be judged over e-mail. So, the vast majority of my dates ended with either I or the woman simply not interested. The handful of relationships that resulted were very lackluster compared to women I met in real life. I found it to be a distracting and frustrating time sink and not really that great a way to meet women. I think your time would be better spent trying hard to do something useful in the world.

I did do some reading of the pickup artists and others who talk about “game”. I won't say that they have nothing useful to think about, but in general given my overall life philosophy I didn't find their thinking too useful. It may well work great for casual pickups and sex, but for finding the love of your life it may actually be counterproductive or at least not that useful.

They do have some useful ideas which I'll briefly describe. You have to keep trying persistently. You have to approach a number of women. The right amount of physical touch is good, not too much but definitely not too little either. In Catholic circles here is the progression I use. First date: 2-3 touches on the shoulder or arm. If she's wearing a ring, hold her hand while “looking at the ring” for a minute and ask her about it. Hug at the end. Second date: set up an opportunity to put your arm around her for a while in a natural situation. Kiss her at the end if she seems receptive. Otherwise, kiss on the third date. Continue to go forward from there as far as you feel you can in good conscience.

You have to approach a woman as a man, and not try to be her friend. Make your interest clear right away. For example, a few weeks ago I met a woman at a church picnic. I talked to her for 15 minutes and she seemed interested, so I asked if she would like to have coffee and got her number. At the coffee date, I talked to her for 45 minutes and again she seemed interested, so I just told her point blank something along the lines of “hopefully it was clear this is a date. I'm interested in you. I think you are beautiful. You have probably already decided if you are interested in me. What do you think about me?” I didn't of course use that phrasing but that was the essence. She seemed to like this very well. We had a great second date the next week and are planning for a third date soon. Notice that I did not try to be her friend, see how things develop, or wait to ask her out. I have found that trying to be friends first or letting things develop rarely works for me, even in the most devout Catholic circles.

When you make a verbal move like that, it is key I think to do it with a sense of non-attachment to the outcome. You are interested but not too much. You would like to date her, but if she doesn't want to it's not a big deal. You have to get to a place in your life where that's really true and you're not just putting on an act. That mental attitude more than the words you use is what makes it effective.

Consider being open to dating non-Catholic or even non-Christian women, at least casually. On a practical level, you may learn something, although as another poster indicated I would hesitate to just think of this as “practice”. It is advantageous because there are relatively few devout Catholic women around, and if you focus on them exclusively you will put yourself in a weak position where you want them too much. You have many more options this way and it is much easier to just go around to other events you are interested in and meet women there.

On a spiritual level, consider why it is that you would choose to date only a Catholic woman. In my own heart I realized at one point that I wasn't doing that for God so much as for my own convenience, so that I wouldn't have to deal with someone who didn't share my beliefs. I realized that in my own life my grandfather was an atheist when he married my grandmother, yet if she hadn't done that my whole family wouldn't even exist, and he ended up converting later in life. You never know. I don't think we are really meant to hold ourselves apart from the rest of God’s children. Further, there are no guarantees in life. I know people who married very devout Catholics and later the devout Catholics ended up becoming nonreligious.

Best of luck

Scott

Date women like you!

I am definitely after someone like me, and I would never go for a veteran. There was a friend (though we were not very close) who I was attracted to for a long time who I just couldn't get interested. She was similar in values and personality, but objectively more attractive, and I wasn't her type. I keep thinking of what I should've done differently. Better clothes, gym, grooming: I'm doing them now anyway even though I don't think they would have been enough.

Scott, thanks for your post. Appreciate the effort you've put into it. I agree on the interest group - I'm in a couple, but maybe I need to go out less with the same people. I also agree on the warnings about online dating. I am reasonably interested in my work and life, but I am feeling like a bit of a failure with so many of my group already married, which is probably making it hard to avoid giving off a vibe of desperation. But that is hard in practical terms to change!

I am someone who is going to have to practice showing interest right from the start. By the way, I don't have a problem with other Christians or even a few types of atheists, but it's a question primarily of compatibility.

I am definitely after someone like me, and I would never go for a veteran. There was a friend (though we were not very close) who I was attracted to for a long time who I just couldn't get interested. She was similar in values and personality, but objectively more attractive, and I wasn't her type. I keep thinking of what I should've done differently. Better clothes, gym, grooming: I'm doing them now anyway even though I don't think they would have been enough.

 

 

Scott, thanks for your post. Appreciate the effort you've put into it. I agree on the interest group - I'm in a couple, but maybe I need to go out less with the same people. I also agree on the warnings about online dating. I am reasonably interested in my work and life, but I am feeling like a bit of a failure with so many of my group already married, which is probably making it hard to avoid giving off a vibe of desperation. But that is hard in practical terms to change!

 

I am someone who is going to have to practice showing interest right from the start. By the way, I don't have a problem with other Christians or even a few types of atheists, but it's a question primarily of compatibility.

Yikes, don't feel like a failure at 24! You're really young and have plenty of time.

Scott

You say you are a devout Catholic and want someone with moral values. I doubt you'd be meeting someone like that in a bar. Be involved in your church's activities. Get involved in religious activities, volunteer opportunities, become an activist for good causes. If you want to meet quality people, you go to places where quality people are found--they're not at the bar. Improve whatever you can about yourself. Dating is a competition--you have to put the best product out there and hope there will be some interested buyers. That's the reality. Get involved in interesting things--do interesting things--become a man that women would find interesting and fun to be with. I know a man who many women were infatuated with. He was adventurous. Wasn't the type to do the mundane, typical stuff. He made every date an adventure--something special and memorable. He was never at a loss for a girlfriend.

I would date Catholic girls because they can be sexually adventurous and not highly religious. The Catholicism is part of their cultural heritage and your kids will grow up Catholic. Devout Protestant women will probably be too devout and not give you a good time in the sac.

 

Since you are an educated academic man check with Catholic universities like Notre Dame. A Catholic girl just graduating from college will be made to order for you and you could even find a virgin like you.

 

 

You can try here:

 

 

• Why Catholic Match|
  
• Success Stories|
  
• Dating Tips & Safety|
  
• About Us|
  
• Help
  

• Browse Catholic Singles|
  
• Privacy|
  
• Terms of Use|
  
• Advertising|
  
• Forums|
  
• Blog|
  
• Media Center|
  
• Jobs
  

 

CatholicMatch is the most popular destination for Single Catholics

 

With more than 1 million monthly visitors, CatholicMatch is the ideal Catholic dating website for singles and Catholics. If you are Catholic and single, there’s no better online dating destination than CatholicMatch.com. CatholicMatch is a Catholic dating service that provides valuable wide range of Catholic online dating services for Catholic Singles: Catholic relationship connections; the best of all Catholic dating sites for Catholic dates; and Catholic Matrimonial connections for singles interested in a serious dating and life-long commitment; Our site meets the needs of traditional Catholic singles and less traditional Catholics alike.

Catholics Looking for Local Singles

 

There are many attractive Catholic singles who want to meet local singles for friendship, activity partners, dating, serious dating, engagement and marriage. CatholicMatch can help you to meet people who live near you. It also provides a Catholic events calendar to let you know about singles events happening in your area.

 

• Browse Catholic Singles by City
  
• Browse Catholic Singles by Country
  
• Browse Catholic Singles by Diocese
  
• Browse Catholic Singles by State
  

If you are of average looks, educated, and with good income potential many women may find you very attractive. Not all women are looking for gym rats that are into the bar scene.

Tsk, tsk. The guy is not looking to get laid, he's looking for a quality girlfriend with good moral values. He's a devout Catholic. He should seek someone who is also a devout Catholic.

I agree, but if the prospect wife was sexual that would be a plus.:rolleyes:

Devout Catholic and sexually active single are conflicting values. Can't really be both at the same time.

Originally Posted by KathyM

Devout Catholic and sexually active single are conflicting values. Can't really be both at the same time.

That is not always true.

 

I hate to make a point using the exception to the rule, but pious persons have been known to be sexual.

In addition, a single women that is a practicing catholic and a virgin can be quite sexual with her H once she gets married. Why not?

I did not imply sexually active single.

While I certainly understand and respect the "wanting to wait part," (I truly wish I had), I can also understand people have sexual needs.

Dated a number of Christian - Catholic and otherwise - virgins or "born again" virgins in my late 20s.

They can be very sexually "adventurous" -- and will "experiment" and do "nearly everything" up to the ultimate...

One I dated -- she wanted to wait -- as a man of faith, I did too but had all these sexual urges I wanted fulfilled. At 27-28 (she was in her 30s), I was hungry...

One wasn't a virgin, but only had 2-3 sexual encounters, like me.

More than sex, I wanted a woman I could marry so respected her for her stance.

Found one -- a woman a few yrs. older than me -- as hungry as I and willing to give me the main course after I hit 30...

Am hoping someone above understands this as I had sex all of 2 sep. X throughout my 20s and in HS a couple of times before I became of faith... so no one could call me "sexually irresponsible..."

So I'm 24 and have never dated anyone in my life. Everything else in my life has been fine. I'm a devout Catholic. I've finished grad school and have an interesting and socially respected job. However, my problems in relationships have persisted and they deserve my complete attention.

 

My problem has 2 parts: finding people and then being attractive to them.

....

I had a bit of a plan:

 

Finding

Get dates - make it a habit to ask everyone and anyone I meet outside of my social circle when circumstances permit

Join another interest group .

OP,

Your plan sounds like a good one.

Please take a look at some of the advice given in these threads to guys older than you who have never even held a girl's hand yet... I think it could help you.

25 year old virgin

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3549605#post3549605

Please read some of the advice given in this thread and post your comments. It's chock full of ideas, suggestions on meeting women, where to meet them (as in church and other singles groups), how to initiate conversation, etc.

For those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t269779/

As some of the threads are on virginity, for the record, there's nothing wrong with beging a virgin or "inexperienced."

Many guys are in the same boat and need some assistance in how to get into proper relationships.

That is not always true.

 

I hate to make a point using the exception to the rule, but pious persons have been known to be sexual. In addition, a single women that is a practicing catholic and a virgin can be quite sexual with her H once she gets married. Why not?

I did not imply sexually active single.

Well, since the guy IS single, I assumed you meant that she should be a sexually active single person. That would conflict with being a devout Catholic. Of course, if they were married, being sexual with each other is a beautiful thing, created by God, for married people to enjoy to its fullest.

While I certainly understand and respect the "wanting to wait part," (I truly wish I had), I can also understand people have sexual needs.

 

Dated a number of Christian - Catholic and otherwise - virgins or "born again" virgins in my late 20s.

They can be very sexually "adventurous" -- and will "experiment" and do "nearly everything" up to the ultimate...

 

One I dated -- she wanted to wait -- as a man of faith, I did too but had all these sexual urges I wanted fulfilled. At 27-28 (she was in her 30s), I was hungry...

One wasn't a virgin, but only had 2-3 sexual encounters, like me.

 

More than sex, I wanted a woman I could marry so respected her for her stance.

Found one -- a woman a few yrs. older than me -- as hungry as I and willing to give me the main course after I hit 30...

 

Am hoping someone above understands this as I had sex all of 2 sep. X throughout my 20s and in HS a couple of times before I became of faith... so no one could call me "sexually irresponsible..."

I assume you married her. If not, that should be the first thing on your to do list. You sound like a really nice guy.

I assume you married her. If not, that should be the first thing on your to do list. You sound like a really nice guy.

Yes, I did marry that woman, a woman intro'd to me in a blind date shortly after I turned 30. We met in early 90s.

She was Catholic at the time (we attend a nondenominal, community church) and we got married in her Catholic church.

Felt some guilt about having sex with her and was initially reluctant to get married there, knowing that church's stance on premarital sex.

Here was this protestant man who knows all about Christian doctrine, including forgiveness, yet he tried hard to avoid that church bec. he was afraid of some questions that might arise during premarital counseling...

You sound like a really nice guy.

Thanks for that compliment.

On the premarital sex -- including the "...everything but... stuff.." -- it's not something I'd publicly recommend.

And I have some regrets (guilt) doing that as it makes you want to "complete" the experience even more, but seemed like an "appetizer" or some kind of satisfaction for a lonely guy in his late 20s who thought his 30s might bring a drought of relationships and sexual love like he experienced in his 20s..

TBH, didn't really do much of that, just 2 women before I met my wife. One was a 28 y.o. virgin, not necessarily Christian, who had some moral standards.

When I first made some sexual moves on my future wife, I only asked her if I could unbutton her shirt and do some "everything... but.."

Honestly considered myself a gentleman who truly desired a relationship first...

You know, I actually thought God had forgotten about me. I did all the right things, treated women well, didn't press them for sex, and even turned down some "offers" I got in my late 20s bec. I found casual sex leaves you empty and worse than before.

One I dated -- she wanted to wait -- as a man of faith, I did too but had all these sexual urges I wanted fulfilled. At 27-28 (she was in her 30s), I was hungry...

One wasn't a virgin, but only had 2-3 sexual encounters, like me.

That woman ... one night, during "everything...but" sex play, she offered herself to me.

Like a fool, I questioned her.

Thought the wine may have altered her judgement (I didn't drink. Even at 50 have never been intoxicated) plus I knew her stance.

As I considered her someone I might marry, and knew she was a non-virgin never-married Christian woman, what would she think of me later if I took advantage of her?

Don't know why, but 12-13 years later I kind of regret not accepting her invitation. May be bec. of the near-sexless state of marriage I'm in now that I'm having these regrets.

Having sex with her likely wouldn't have made me feel any better, the inexperienced and "relationship loser" I was in my 20s....

Split this off from above post which was getting way too long. Sorry.

Posted more about my situation in my 20s here (for anyone interested).

Help! Married but can't forget my ex

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-spirituality/18294-help-married-but-cant-forget-my-ex.html#post360367

Having very limited sexual experience until my 30s... (3X in HS same girl before I became a Christian and 2X from 19-30, I truly was more interested in finding a relationship, which I guess was diff. from what many others did at that time. Funny how I couldn't find or get many "Christian" women interested in dating me...

I now realize I didn't pick up on the signals one woman I dated sent out and could have had her sexually... but I wasn't in love with her and didn't have real feelings towards her... couldn't see ML with someone I didn't love...

I picked my wife bec. she loved me and I loved her (we met 3 mos. after I turned 30) and she was the only one (so it seemed) who let me ML with her, important to a guy approaching 30 without any real relationship outside of a platonic NEAR-fiance he had at 26....

We didn't start ML until 3 mos. into our relationship.... so it was monogomous and committed sex....

But not something we told other people about, of course...

Try to help other inexperienced in guys in threads like this one and this...

http://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390892&p=4923592&viewfull=1#post4923592

Originally Posted by Floridaman

Am hoping someone above understands this as I had sex all of 2 sep. X throughout my 20s and in HS a couple of times before I became of faith... so no one could call me "sexually irresponsible..."

By "someone above," meant God/ Jesus, of course, not a prev. poster...

Hope it's okay to bring a little religion in this thread as there's been a lot of discussion of Catholicism...

Realize I said a lot in this post, but want to make it clear I'm not recommending couples get sexually involved before marriage... I just understand how it happens..

Really regret having sex in HS.... we both felt intense guilt (and I still feel some guilt over it) (she was Catholic) and I think it harmed the way I interacted with women in college and beyond...

Maybe it's wrong to say this, but kinda felt I "deserved" some sexual love (in my late 20s), as I had "played by all the rules" and yet remained alone most of my adult life up until my 30s...

Yes, I did marry that woman, a woman intro'd to me in a blind date shortly after I turned 30. We met in early 90s.

She was Catholic at the time (we attend a nondenominal, community church) and we got married in her Catholic church.

 

Felt some guilt about having sex with her and was initially reluctant to get married there, knowing that church's stance on premarital sex.

Here was this protestant man who knows all about Christian doctrine, including forgiveness, yet he tried hard to avoid that church bec. he was afraid of some questions that might arise during premarital counseling...

 

Thanks for that compliment.

 

On the premarital sex -- including the "...everything but... stuff.." -- it's not something I'd publicly recommend.

And I have some regrets (guilt) doing that as it makes you want to "complete" the experience even more, but seemed like an "appetizer" or some kind of satisfaction for a lonely guy in his late 20s who thought his 30s might bring a drought of relationships and sexual love like he experienced in his 20s..

 

TBH, didn't really do much of that, just 2 women before I met my wife. One was a 28 y.o. virgin, not necessarily Christian, who had some moral standards.

When I first made some sexual moves on my future wife, I only asked her if I could unbutton her shirt and do some "everything... but.."

Honestly considered myself a gentleman who truly desired a relationship first...

 

 

You know, I actually thought God had forgotten about me. I did all the right things, treated women well, didn't press them for sex, and even turned down some "offers" I got in my late 20s bec. I found casual sex leaves you empty and worse than before.

 

That woman ... one night, during "everything...but" sex play, she offered herself to me.

 

Like a fool, I questioned her.

Thought the wine may have altered her judgement (I didn't drink. Even at 50 have never been intoxicated) plus I knew her stance.

As I considered her someone I might marry, and knew she was a non-virgin never-married Christian woman, what would she think of me later if I took advantage of her?

 

Don't know why, but 12-13 years later I kind of regret not accepting her invitation. May be bec. of the near-sexless state of marriage I'm in now that I'm having these regrets.

 

Having sex with her likely wouldn't have made me feel any better, the inexperienced and "relationship loser" I was in my 20s....

Thank you for sharing. You say you are in a near-sexless state of marriage now. I'm assuming your wife is no longer interested in that aspect of your marriage. I'm sorry to hear that. There's a Bible verse I want to insert in here:

1 Corinthians 7:3-6 : From the apostle Paul to the Corinthians,

The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time,

so

that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again

so

that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a CONCESSION, not as a command.

 

You are most likely familiar with this Bible verse, but I think a lot of Christian married couples forget the importance that a good sexual relationship together is for a marriage. If your wife is withholding sex from you, she is damaging the marriage. Sexual relations with your spouse is a spiritual, emotional and physical bonding that all married couples need to maintain in order to keep a marriage healthy. As the above Bible verse says, we are not to withhold sex from our spouse. Our body does not belong just to ourselves, but also to our spouse. We are to fulfill our spouse's needs at all times. There is a book I would suggest you buy for your wife. It was recommended to me by a man of great faith in God. It's called "Created To Be His Help Meet" by Debi Pearl. I'll just quote one paragraph from the book:

 

"A woman working beside her man is a spiritual force for them both. A woman providing good sex and fun company is offering her husband a spiritual benefit. A woman preparing healthy meals and cutting the grass

so

he can go fishing on Saturday is a spiritual woman, because she is placing him above herself. There is no greater love than to put another first."

 

Notice the second sentence in that paragraph. God expects wives to provide for their husband's sexual needs. To be his playmate, his companion, his comforter, his joy in life. Buy your wife the book, and ask her to read it. If she is a spiritual Christian woman, she would be interested to do what God has instructed her to do. I would also suggest that you go to Christian marriage counseling. That would help to get over any rough patches you are having. Also, Mort Fertel's "Marriage Fitness" course is very helpful. It talks about the importance of fulfilling your spouse's needs and how to get your sexual relationship with your spouse back on track. Hang in there. Marriages can get off track sometimes, but there are ways to get it back to where it needs to be.

My ex said he got more girls when he learned to dance. He took all kinds of dancing -- ballroom, Latin, freestyle, etc. Most classes had more women than men, so he was in demand. Once he got the moves down, he said he seldom had any competition when he went out because most guys can't dance. Dancing kept him in great shape and gave him courage to approach the more attractive women whom he'd never approach on the street. He said he didn't have to talk to the women while dancing, which was good initially because he was so shy. He eventually gained more confidence off the dance floor as well.

Let's not forget that one of the most popular TV shows in the US is Dancing with the Stars and in the UK it's Strictly Come Dancing. In fact, I think there are spin offs in many countries now.

Sometimes the best ideas are the simplest ones. Good luck!

Thank you for sharing. You say you are in a near-sexless state of marriage now. I'm assuming your wife is no longer interested in that aspect of your marriage. I'm sorry to hear that. There's a Bible verse I want to insert in here:

 

1 Corinthians 7:3-6 : From the apostle Paul to the Corinthians,

The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time,

so

that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again

so

that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a CONCESSION, not as a command.

 

You are most likely familiar with this Bible verse, but I think a lot of Christian married couples forget the importance that a good sexual relationship together is for a marriage. If your wife is withholding sex from you, she is damaging the marriage. Sexual relations with your spouse is a spiritual, emotional and physical bonding that all married couples need to maintain in order to keep a marriage healthy. As the above Bible verse says, we are not to withhold sex from our spouse. Our body does not belong just to ourselves, but also to our spouse. We are to fulfill our spouse's needs at all times. There is a book I would suggest you buy for your wife. It was recommended to me by a man of great faith in God. It's called "Created To Be His Help Meet" by Debi Pearl. I'll just quote one paragraph from the book:

 

"A woman working beside her man is a spiritual force for them both. A woman providing good sex and fun company is offering her husband a spiritual benefit. A woman preparing healthy meals and cutting the grass

so

he can go fishing on Saturday is a spiritual woman, because she is placing him above herself. There is no greater love than to put another first."

 

Notice the second sentence in that paragraph. God expects wives to provide for their husband's sexual needs. To be his playmate, his companion, his comforter, his joy in life. Buy your wife the book, and ask her to read it. If she is a spiritual Christian woman, she would be interested to do what God has instructed her to do. I would also suggest that you go to Christian marriage counseling. That would help to get over any rough patches you are having. Also, Mort Fertel's "Marriage Fitness" course is very helpful. It talks about the importance of fulfilling your spouse's needs and how to get your sexual relationship with your spouse back on track. Hang in there. Marriages can get off track sometimes, but there are ways to get it back to where it needs to be.

Kathy,

All I can say is WOW !!!!

That's very insightful and caring advice you provided.

Want to PM you some more info on my situation, but notice you're a couple of days away from gaining privileges, so will save my msg. for the PM.

Plus, don't want to wreck this excellent thread of how user12345 needs help to get out and date.

In the meantime, here's an update on my situation.

Don't know if you saw it. Sorry it was a big rant.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3545148&postcount=75

I've detailed my situation in a big thread I started in Nov.

Refusal-Long time refused & considering leaving...

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253953

Forgive me for some of the graphic writing. That wasn't the purpose and I was counting on internet anonymity. Wish I could edit some of those posts. Wanted to give a view of what it's like for a man in my shoes.

You say you are a devout Catholic and want someone with moral values. I doubt you'd be meeting someone like that in a bar.

 

Be involved in your church's activities. Get involved in religious activities, volunteer opportunities, become an activist for good causes. If you want to meet quality people, you go to places where quality people are found--they're not at the bar.

Improve whatever you can about yourself.

 

Dating is a competition--you have to put the best product out there and hope there will be some interested buyers. That's the reality.

Get involved in interesting things--do interesting things--become a man that women would find interesting and fun to be with.

I know a man who many women were infatuated with. He was adventurous. Wasn't the type to do the mundane, typical stuff. He made every date an adventure--something special and memorable. He was never at a loss for a girlfriend.

That's solid advice.

As you say, you're not really gonna find someone like you in a bar if you're not into the bar scene.

In those threads where I've tried to help those needing dates, have recommended against going to bars, and "brought one guy around" from that lifestyle that was taking a toll on him. He really sounded like he was about to crash...

http://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169823&p=4700619&viewfull=1#post4700619

That's me, CR, in the thread. Changed my screen name from FL Man...

Hi OP,

As a fellow devout Catholic who has been through the same thing for rather more years, perhaps I can help you a bit.

 

......

I did do some reading of the pickup artists and others who talk about “game”. I won't say that they have nothing useful to think about, but in general given my overall life philosophy I didn't find their thinking too useful. It may well work great for casual pickups and sex, but for finding the love of your life it may actually be counterproductive or at least not that useful.

Me too. Have read some of that out of curiosity, but Scott's right on this.

Consider being open to dating non-Catholic or even non-Christian women, at least casually. On a practical level, you may learn something, although as another poster indicated I would hesitate to just think of this as “practice”. It is advantageous because there are relatively few devout Catholic women around, and if you focus on them exclusively you will put yourself in a weak position where you want them too much. You have many more options this way and it is much easier to just go around to other events you are interested in and meet women there.

 

On a spiritual level, consider why it is that you would choose to date only a Catholic woman. In my own heart I realized at one point that I wasn't doing that for God so much as for my own convenience, so that I wouldn't have to deal with someone who didn't share my beliefs.

 

I realized that in my own life my grandfather was an atheist when he married my grandmother, yet if she hadn't done that my whole family wouldn't even exist, and he ended up converting later in life. You never know. I don't think we are really meant to hold ourselves apart from the rest of God’s children. Further, there are no guarantees in life.

 

I know people who married very devout Catholics and later the devout Catholics ended up becoming nonreligious.

This is prime advise, esp. recommending the other poster date other Christian women, not only Catholic women.

I'd recommend not proceeding further if you learned the woman is agnostic or atheist. Miracles can happen, but you know about being unequally yoked...

Can't say my focus on dating in my late 20s was on if the woman was a Christian -- was disappointed and felt God had "forgotten" me, so I just wanted to find someone to love me... and wasn't so devout then.

Main focus was getting a relationship before I got too far into my 30s.

The woman I dated didn't HAVE to hold the same religious views as me -- they could be nominally Christian or more devouyt like I was in college (in my early 20s wanted a virgin, godly woman), but I certainly wanted the woman I married to have SOME type of Christian belief.

Later shed that virgin preference as well, as reality changes things as you get older....

My future wife I met shortly after 30 -- so God hadn't really "forgotten" about me -- was Catholic. In her mid-30s, she wasn't a virgin but only had one partner prior to me, a former fiance from her early 20s... so we had similar limited sexual experience, which is what I wanted in a woman, someone who hadn't had sex with every guy she dated.

She's more devoted now to Scripture.

As a Protestant who had some misperceptions about Catholicism during college, dating a Catholic wouldn't have been anything I would have wanted.

Had some fears about Catholicism, but a conversation with a priest friend of a friend changed some of my views in my mid-20s.

Future wife and I attended her Catholic church and later married there...

Scott's advice is great and comes from someone not unlike the OP.