Eating Cake and NOT Having It, Too

[wildsoul]

Quite unexpectedly, I'm having a breakthrough in lucidity today.

 

Considering I was awake in deep withdrawals all night, compulsively checking my phone for text messages and hallucinating that his car had pulled up in my driveway twice, this moment of respite seems unusual.

Before I go back into withdrawal madness again, as I'm sure I will, I want to share an insight.

 

We often use the term "cake eater" here. The phrase refers to someone who wants 2 things that are in conflict. It also implies a greediness.

 

[side rant] One of my pet peeves is how this phrase gets worded backwards all the time. The proper quote is "Eat your cake and have it, too." It refers to the idea that if you've already eaten your cake, you no longer have it. It's all eaten up. You can't have it both ways.[/side rant]

 

But while it's certainly true that my xMM is a cake eater, I see another element at play besides the idea of him greedily wanting both.

 

The opposing idea is that the cake eater is also wanting neither.

 

There is an element of failure to commit here. Do you see?

 

Officially committed to the spouse via marriage, but emotionally pulled out and abandoned the spouse. Obviously not committed to the spouse as long as they are continuing to cheat.

 

Unofficially commtted to the OW/M via declarations of love and future talk. But obviously not committed to the OW/M as long as they are continuing to stay married.

 

The spouse and the OW/M have a lot in common really. Both are getting the crumbs of pseudo committment.

 

What does the cheater get out of it? A double dose of love addicted partners who are both desperate to "win" the fulltime love of the cheater. There's lots of perks (cake) thrown their way. But they also have a sense of relief--no one really owns them. They do not feel controlled or engulfed. They are getting enough intimacy to feed their ego, but not so much that they feel overwhelmed. When things get to intense with one partner, they avoid that one, and put their attention on the other. It's avoidant behavior.

 

Thoughts?

[xxxheartbrokenxxx]

Quite unexpectedly, I'm having a breakthrough in lucidity today.

 

Considering I was awake in deep withdrawals all night, compulsively checking my phone for text messages and hallucinating that his car had pulled up in my driveway twice, this moment of respite seems unusual.

Before I go back into withdrawal madness again, as I'm sure I will, I want to share an insight.

 

We often use the term "cake eater" here. The phrase refers to someone who wants 2 things that are in conflict. It also implies a greediness.

 

[side rant] One of my pet peeves is how this phrase gets worded backwards all the time. The proper quote is "Eat your cake and have it, too." It refers to the idea that if you've already eaten your cake, you no longer have it. It's all eaten up. You can't have it both ways.[/side rant]

 

But while it's certainly true that my xMM is a cake eater, I see another element at play besides the idea of him greedily wanting both.

 

The opposing idea is that the cake eater is also wanting neither.

 

There is an element of failure to commit here. Do you see?

 

Officially committed to the spouse via marriage, but emotionally pulled out and abandoned the spouse. Obviously not committed to the spouse as long as they are continuing to cheat.

 

Unofficially commtted to the OW/M via declarations of love and future talk. But obviously not committed to the OW/M as long as they are continuing to stay married.

 

The spouse and the OW/M have a lot in common really. Both are getting the crumbs of pseudo committment.

 

What does the cheater get out of it? A double dose of love addicted partners who are both desperate to "win" the fulltime love of the cheater. There's lots of perks (cake) thrown their way. But they also have a sense of relief--no one really owns them. They do not feel controlled or engulfed. They are getting enough intimacy to feed their ego, but not so much that they feel overwhelmed. When things get to intense with one partner, they avoid that one, and put their attention on the other. It's avoidant behavior.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

The spouse and the OW/M have a lot in common really. Both are getting the crumbs of pseudo committment.

 

Not sure I agree with this - the W gets to live with MM, sleep with MM probably whenever she wants, have MMs kids, be seen out in public with MM, gets to be a housewife for MM, eats with MM, watches TV with MM, can basically be with him most of the time.

 

What does the OW usually get? A couple of hours sporadically on the MMs terms & its often just about (rushed) sex when they meet - you know, no quality time together by, say, going on vacation.

 

OW has to cope with the severe emotional upset of loads of broken promises - often due to something cropping up at home for the MM.

So in 9 out of 10 cases I think MM will put W&K first.

 

At the end of the day they very rarely leave their W do they? Although I know there are some success stories on here (GEL etc) which is brilliant and Im very pleased for them - it just goes to show there is sometimes a happy ending for the OW.

But in most cases the W is the winner. She gets to stay with him. Although she probably wouldnt want to if she knew about the A. But ignorance is bliss.

So normally speaking I really think most MM having an affair are just greedy & selfish looking for supplementary sex.

[jj33]

You are so switched on - that is so so true. The "cake eater" is creating his (it applies to women too but will use MM/his) own kind of freedom. He is "owned" by nobody. He is compartmentalizing everything so he is not fully emotionally present in either relationship.

 

For a BS in love with the cakeeater, I cant imagine how painful it must be to sense that your spouse is no longer emotionally engaged in the relationship, regardless of whether they know why.

 

For the OP, it supports any sort of hope the OP may be harboring for a future, someone who is clearly disengaged from the marriage in some profound way. Otherwise the cakeeater wouldnt cheat. But at the same time its totally unsatisfying.

 

Im not sure they are all looking solely for supplementary sex. If you look at some of the stories on here, sex can be had alot more easily than its obtained in many As. You dont have to get involved in all this just for sex. We are talented but noone's bedroom tricks are so exciting they are worth all the heartache that results in so many cases for both the cakeater and the OP. People who are just in it for supplementary sex run at the first sign of any emotions. And they dont look back. But... at the same time, I suppose it is a nice way of dipping your toe in the emotional connection pool without any accountability.

 

Many people are cakeaters because they lack an emotional connection with their spouse and stay for other reasons. So they get to be the romantic hero, the stud, the adored and recieve emotional support from the OP that they may not get from their spouse. Why or how the marriage has broken down doesnt matter. The fact is their emotional needs arent being met at home. And they arent going to leave for whatever reason and really if they can "delegate" those functions, and stay married... its not ideal but its workable. And sometimes it suits the spouse just fine even if its not discussed (can you just imagine - John, hows that girl youve been seeing - have you gotten her a birthday present yet? We dont want her to get upset again) I think for some of them being emotionally present 24/7 would be claustrophobic. If they wanted that they would either move heaven and earth to fix the marriage, or they would leave and give themselves and their spouses a chance to find it elsewhere. Kids finances etc its all an excuse in at least 90% of cases. Either the situation suits you for some reason or it doesnt.

 

And for those cakeaters who really dont want to be tied to anyone it is a good deal. As you say no emotional accountability to anyone. If the BS is not challenging them (either because they dont know or they like the emotional distance too) and the OP is not too demanding, it serves them.

 

I go back and forth on this one. Sometimes I fully believe that. Other times, I think really who wouldnt want to have everything with someone. But everyone is different, for those that really dont want to be emotionally accountable or fully engaged and want that "freedom" (as empty as it may seem to people who dont feel that way), this suits them.

 

People do "what they think" works for them. Until it doesnt.

 

Great post WS

[wildsoul]

Many people are cakeaters because they lack an emotional connection with their spouse and stay for other reasons. So they get to be the romantic hero, the stud, the adored and recieve emotional support from the OP that they may not get from their spouse. Why or how the marriage has broken down doesnt matter. The fact is their emotional needs arent being met at home. And they arent going to leave for whatever reason and really if they can "delegate" those functions, and stay married... its not ideal but its workable.

I think that describes my xMM pretty well. He genuinely seemed to mean it when he said he regretted marrying his W because he didn't know it was possible to have such a strong connection as he did with me. Often, he lamented that we did not meet earlier. So with me, he got all the emotional richness and sex, but at the end of the day he decided it wasn't worth it to upset his life for me. He told me he wanted to spend his life with me, but when I called his bluff on the delays, he said it was "impossible" and boy was he pissed off at the ultimatum! He did not like me taking control that way. What pisses me off is that I wasn't asking him for more of a commitment than HE was promising to me first. Meh. That's one of the reasons why I think it's a commitment issue. He constantly said he wanted a committed relationship with me, but mostly talk.

[xxxheartbrokenxxx]

Yeah sorry if my earlier post on this subject came accross a little bitter but I guess I am basing it on my situation where alot of the members of LS made me realize I was DEFINATELY being used for supplementary sex. Alot of MM do this but I understand every situation is different.

[wildsoul]

Yeah sorry if my earlier post on this subject came accross a little bitter but I guess I am basing it on my situation where alot of the members of LS made me realize I was DEFINATELY being used for supplementary sex. Alot of MM do this but I understand every situation is different.

You know, in this context, I think a little bitterness is healthy!

 

These things aren't black/white. For sure, I was used for supplementary sex (supposedly I was the only sex, but who knows.) But then what caught fire is that we were so much more than that.

 

Honestly, now that I think about it, that it became more seemed to have caught him by surprise. When he first met me, he had said that he thought long term love affairs (while still married) seemed like a good thing to him. But then our chemistry was so strong, he went into full on romance mode and started making all this talk about us getting married.

 

I think he's going back to plan A: sex on the side. That would be easier for him.

[2sunny]

it may not necessarily be a committment issue as much as a compartmentalization issue.

 

some MM/MW can compartmentalize better or easier than others.

 

as long as you stay in the perverbial proper box (or compartment) things are just fine for the married person.

 

it's when you start to try to adjust your "position" that it throws the married person off and they figure it's easier to pull way back or bail than adjust to YOUR wants/needs.

[Tomcat33]

Not sure I agree with this - the W gets to live with MM, sleep with MM probably whenever she wants, have MMs kids, be seen out in public with MM, gets to be a housewife for MM, eats with MM, watches TV with MM, can basically be with him most of the time.

 

 

 

Yes you're right the W does get all those things, but they are all status symbols of a marriage. What is she getting in terms of emotional and spirtual fulfillment from the love of her life? What is she really getting from him?

 

I remember a few years back I was getting out of a significant relationship, the end was near and I could feel it every day but we were both draging it out for some reason. I wanted out and at the same time I loved him and was scared. I remember those days so clearly. I remember those last days because I felt like prisoner in my own home, even the act of watching tv together was painful. Sharing the roof and a bed with a man I no longer wanted to be with and who I could also sense wanted the same, I never felt so lonely and than in those days. EVER. Sure we seemed like the perfect couple that had it all, but we were far from perfect behind closed doors and we were far from a couple anymore and nothing is as devestating as living with someone you no longer want to be with and who in turn also makes you feel like you are not wanted no matter how many status symbols you can present to the public that says it isn't so.

[wildsoul]

it may not necessarily be a committment issue as much as a compartmentalization issue.

Interesting. I can see how your point applies to people that like to do the long term marriage + long term mistress on the side. In a way, those are committed (or can be.) People in poly relationships might fit that model too.

 

For me, compartmentalizing means splitting. That it isn't a full committment. Oh, and honey, but I am loathe to be contained in a box that someone else wants to fit me in. Egads. Nor do I want to share my lover. Ick.

 

Great contribution though. Good word to put into the mix.

[bentnotbroken]

The spouse and the OW/M have a lot in common really. Both are getting the crumbs of pseudo committment.

 

Not sure I agree with this - the W gets to live with MM, sleep with MM probably whenever she wants, have MMs kids, be seen out in public with MM, gets to be a housewife for MM, eats with MM, watches TV with MM, can basically be with him most of the time.

 

What does the OW usually get? A couple of hours sporadically on the MMs terms & its often just about (rushed) sex when they meet - you know, no quality time together by, say, going on vacation.

 

OW has to cope with the severe emotional upset of loads of broken promises - often due to something cropping up at home for the MM.

So in 9 out of 10 cases I think MM will put W&K first.

 

At the end of the day they very rarely leave their W do they? Although I know there are some success stories on here (GEL etc) which is brilliant and Im very pleased for them - it just goes to show there is sometimes a happy ending for the OW.

But in most cases the W is the winner. She gets to stay with him. Although she probably wouldnt want to if she knew about the A. But ignorance is bliss.

So normally speaking I really think most MM having an affair are just greedy & selfish looking for supplementary sex.

 

 

You forgot, we get the social security, 401 k, stocks, bonds, and if he dies all insurance properties, respect, sympathy, and support. The OW?????

[Tomcat33]

You forgot, we get the social security, 401 k, stocks, bonds, and if he dies all insurance properties, respect, sympathy, and support. The OW?????

 

 

Respect sympanthy and support??? How is cheating on your W any of those things!?!?

 

As per the rest of the list, yes more status symbols indeed.

[jj33]

I think that describes my xMM pretty well. He genuinely seemed to mean it when he said he regretted marrying his W because he didn't know it was possible to have such a strong connection as he did with me. Often, he lamented that we did not meet earlier. So with me, he got all the emotional richness and sex, but at the end of the day he decided it wasn't worth it to upset his life for me. He told me he wanted to spend his life with me, but when I called his bluff on the delays, he said it was "impossible" and boy was he pissed off at the ultimatum! He did not like me taking control that way. What pisses me off is that I wasn't asking him for more of a commitment than HE was promising to me first. Meh. That's one of the reasons why I think it's a commitment issue. He constantly said he wanted a committed relationship with me, but mostly talk.

 

Does that help any? I find that when I get very negative about the entire thing and think I was totally played deluded etc it holds me back from moving on. When I can acknowledge that the feelings on his side were real, despite the fact that he never followed through, it feels alot better.

 

My xMM was very much like yours in that the emotional part was as or more important than the sex. And I think its hard to go back to mere sex on the side when you have had it all. Once he realizes that the NC marks the end of the emotional richness my best guess is he will wander on, and go back to the less complicated sex on the side... he is a master at compartmentalization.

[2sunny]

 

My xMM was very much like yours in that the emotional part was as or more important than the sex. And I think its hard to go back to mere sex on the side when you have had it all. Once he realizes that the NC marks the end of the emotional richness my best guess is he will wander on, and go back to the less complicated sex on the side... he is a master at compartmentalization.

 

well - just remember that many MM have several OW hanging around.

 

never been the OW but do know a few MM as friends that share secrets... and they usually don't only have just one OW...

 

some MM need a W and several OW to fill the needs of all their compartments. so when one walks away it's really not that big of a deal - he only needs to find another victim to fill the void of that particular area of his life.

 

get it? one woman cannot possibly keep a man like this happy in ALL areas of his life - he feels entitled to have many so that he covers all the bases of his needs met.

[jj33]

That may be true in some situations but I feel comfortable that I was the only one and that he is not seeing anyone else. Thanks.

[wildsoul]

get it? one woman cannot possibly keep a man like this happy in ALL areas of his life - he feels entitled to have many so that he covers all the bases of his needs met.

See, but makes my point too. Is it that one woman "cannot" do it for him, or is it that he isn't interested in committing to one? And just a reminder: we're talking about married men here, not singles who openly date more than one woman at a time. The MM's want to make it seem like they are committing, but they are not.

[2sunny]

See, but makes my point too. Is it that one woman "cannot" do it for him, or is it that he isn't interested in committing to one? And just a reminder: we're talking about married men here, not singles who openly date more than one woman at a time. The MM's want to make it seem like they are committing, but they are not.

 

i was referring to MM. they figure they are capable of being committed - they got married didn't they? from what they have told me - they are proud that they stay with THAT commitment. that may be as much as they are capable of. remember that it is usually all about the married person's wants and needs being fulfilled.

 

the OW(s) are then put into the other compartments that fills the void of what the wife MAY lack/or from his perception he needs more of from someone else.

 

might be sex, emotional levels that he doesn't get at home, ego strokes, someone who he believes will "listen" to him, makes him feel important, wanted, higher level of intellect, shared interests such as sports, literature, working out, cars, boating, hiking, music or the arts. basically a connection on some level that he's missing in another area of his life.

[astra77]

Does that help any? I find that when I get very negative about the entire thing and think I was totally played deluded etc it holds me back from moving on. When I can acknowledge that the feelings on his side were real, despite the fact that he never followed through, it feels alot better.

 

My xMM was very much like yours in that the emotional part was as or more important than the sex. And I think its hard to go back to mere sex on the side when you have had it all. Once he realizes that the NC marks the end of the emotional richness my best guess is he will wander on, and go back to the less complicated sex on the side... he is a master at compartmentalization.

 

jj - you are doing so well huny.

 

This is what i mean when i say OWN your feelings, and ACCEPT the outcome. You love the MM/MW and they love you, but the issue is MM/MW wants to stay married for X Y Z reason/s and you dont want to continue being his dirty little secret kept stuffed in a little box and only pop your head up when it suits HIM. You want to be with each other but not on the same terms. The OP is not on the same page emotionally as the MM/MW. Its really that simple - but thats not to say that it doesnt hurt like hell, coz it does.

 

Yes it sounds like your MM loved you and had no one else (except his W ha ha ha) i think mine loved me too and i was the only OW as we worked together, when he wasnt at work with me he was home with the W & K so there was ABSOLUTELY no time for another OW. I firmly believe i was his first OW and as hard as it is to accept that he didnt want to take the next step and move on with me in a proper R, i have accepted it now and it makes all the difference in the world. As to whether or not he gets another OW - who knows, and i dont care.

 

Everyone is different, but all the points made here are relevant and true in many ways.

[jj33]

Thanks Astra. That means alot to me. Its been a long road and I feel like I am finally coming out the other side. I dont quite not care yet but I look forward to not caring. The test will come when I next see him. Can I be normal around him and pleasant. Right now I just feel impatience when I think of talking to him. I have wasted so much energy on that man that unless he has something really important to say, business or otherwise, I really dont want to hear it. The days of idle chit chat are over.

 

Its quite a process. The biggest obstacle at this point is forgiving myself for putting myself in that situation.

 

Unlike many of you I was willing to be in an A. I had originally been under the impression that he had a very separate life from his W and that there was no reason to tear down the institution (their marriage) at his age if we could have a life togther parallel to the marriage being at home most weekends and with me most of the week, travelling together etc. But I was so very misguided. It turned out he had a lot more freedom at the beginning due to his wife's circumstances at the time and then she became aware that he was not up to his usual hijinks but that something more was happening and staked an even bigger claim on his time more out of vanity than caring. And no for the skeptics out there, the change with his W was not him lying it was confirmed by independent 3rd parties. Then he started thinking about leaving and then it just all got chaotic. Im just glad its over. Its not a chapter of my life I would want to repeat now that I know how it ends.

 

And I wonder when people have gone through hell and back. Even if the MM eventually shows up and says guess what I am leaving I love you - how do you push back all the pain and resentment and bad feelings that have built up over the course of things. Yes you have to let it go so you can move on. But do you ever really trust the person again? I would think its very difficult. If he came back and said Im leavingn look I filed I dont know what i would say right now except good for you. I hope you are very happy. It would take alot go get back to that place of joy and happiness at being together. I am not sure it would be possible. Its so tainted now.

 

Back to Sex and the City, why did Big marry Natasha - because it had all become so hard.... and it took several seasons to fix.

[astra77]

Thanks Astra. That means alot to me. Its been a long road and I feel like I am finally coming out the other side. I dont quite not care yet but I look forward to not caring.

 

Your welcome jj

 

The test will come when I next see him. Can I be normal around him and pleasant. Right now I just feel impatience when I think of talking to him. I have wasted so much energy on that man that unless he has something really important to say, business or otherwise, I really dont want to hear it. The days of idle chit chat are over.

 

Im not looking forward to this day if it happens

 

Its quite a process.

 

F**k yeah, it sux big time

 

The biggest obstacle at this point is forgiving myself for putting myself in that situation.

 

This will happen with time huny. Its ok

 

Unlike many of you I was willing to be in an A. I had originally been under the impression that he had a very separate life from his W and that there was no reason to tear down the institution (their marriage) at his age if we could have a life togther parallel to the marriage being at home most weekends and with me most of the week, travelling together etc. But I was so very misguided. It turned out he had a lot more freedom at the beginning due to his wife's circumstances at the time and then she became aware that he was not up to his usual hijinks but that something more was happening and staked an even bigger claim on his time more out of vanity than caring. And no for the skeptics out there, the change with his W was not him lying it was confirmed by independent 3rd parties. Then he started thinking about leaving and then it just all got chaotic.

 

This is somewhat similar to me

 

Im just glad its over. Its not a chapter of my life I would want to repeat now that I know how it ends.

 

Me neither..... NEVER, NEVER EVER AGAIN

 

And I wonder when people have gone through hell and back. Even if the MM eventually shows up and says guess what I am leaving I love you - how do you push back all the pain and resentment and bad feelings that have built up over the course of things. Yes you have to let it go so you can move on. But do you ever really trust the person again? I would think its very difficult. If he came back and said Im leavingn look I filed I dont know what i would say right now except good for you. I hope you are very happy. It would take alot go get back to that place of joy and happiness at being together. I am not sure it would be possible. Its so tainted now.

 

I SERIOUSLY doubt i could go back there again, as much as i love him he has emotionally killed me. sometimes i wish i could hold him again, but it will ALWAYS be too raw for me. The pain is toooo much

[beautifullove]

AS77: I feel exactly the same way. p.s. Don't you mean s**t chat. lol.

[jj33]

I SERIOUSLY doubt i could go back there again, as much as i love him he has emotionally killed me. sometimes i wish i could hold him again, but it will ALWAYS be too raw for me. The pain is toooo much

 

I agree. And thanks its so helpful to know that other people feel the same way. I see him in about 2-3 weeks. I hope not to hear from him much sooner but if I do I will be courteous and professional. After all he is a client...

[soda]

Quite unexpectedly, I'm having a breakthrough in lucidity today.

 

The opposing idea is that the cake eater is also wanting neither.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

No, the cake eater wants everything...the safety and security of marriage along with the passion of the affair.

 

50% of marriages end in divorce. Most affairs don't end in marriage. (I'm not going to bother with stats, which are on my side of the argument, because people in the fog of affairs generally can't be reasoned with. They're like drug addicts.

 

So, what do you think most cake eaters end up with? Nothing. My STBX isn't even going to get her OM. He backed off when reality hit him. I'm past the point of forgiveness. She ends up with jack squat.

 

When you wake up with withdrawals, you need to tell yourself that OM is crack. Do you want to be a crack addict?

[CAMAYPARK]

Unlike many of you I was willing to be in an A. I had originally been under the impression that he had a very separate life from his W and that there was no reason to tear down the institution (their marriage) at his age if we could have a life togther parallel to the marriage being at home most weekends and with me most of the week, travelling together etc. But I was so very misguided. It turned out he had a lot more freedom at the beginning due to his wife's circumstances at the time and then she became aware that he was not up to his usual hijinks but that something more was happening and staked an even bigger claim on his time more out of vanity than caring. And no for the skeptics out there, the change with his W was not him lying it was confirmed by independent 3rd parties. Then he started thinking about leaving and then it just all got chaotic. Im just glad its over. Its not a chapter of my life I would want to repeat now that I know how it ends.

 

And I wonder when people have gone through hell and back. Even if the MM eventually shows up and says guess what I am leaving I love you - how do you push back all the pain and resentment and bad feelings that have built up over the course of things. Yes you have to let it go so you can move on. But do you ever really trust the person again? I would think its very difficult. If he came back and said Im leavingn look I filed I dont know what i would say right now except good for you. I hope you are very happy. It would take alot go get back to that place of joy and happiness at being together. I am not sure it would be possible. Its so tainted now.

 

quote]

 

JJ33, this is so like me:lmao: For the past 3years he gave me the impression that he led a separate live from his wife whilst still remaining under the same roof. I really do not want to debate over this issue but like you, this too had been confirmed by others.

 

Till today, I still do not understand. Apparently through the years, MM have had discussions with W about leading separate lives and she agreed, the last discussion was last year. Do you think with MM's W has only listen to what she had wanted to hear? I don't want to sound harsh, nor do I want to sound careless here.

 

When MM was faced with a situation whereby, I had already walked away from the A, he had another "discussion" with W. Apparently, he did this because he thought that she wasn't being serious all these years and he had wanted to spend the rest of his live with me and no more sneaking around.

 

Should I finally grab this chance of being with him? Like JJ33, after so much aggravation, so much uncertainties, this latest episode has made me question the past 3years, how much if any was it true. Why only when faced with such a drastic situation, when it finally hit home that I had walked away, that he decided to confront his W? So, how much was this "we lead separate lives" was true?

 

I am Asian and being Oriental we have strange preceptions on M & A. Generally Asian women are reared in a household where a display of affection between adults is taboo. She is conditioned to have sex with her husband whether she wants or not, and then two contradictory elements come into play. There is the long-suffering type who will pardon her husband for all his sins, even sexual exploits outside his home, and there is the other type who accepts all his vices like gambling and drinking but will never allows him to womanise. Perhaps, the first womans attitude is more realistic because she knows that her husband really loves her in his own way, satisfies her material needs and seeks sex outside because he genuinely believes that he is sparing her from his demands in bed. Such women, generally older, cope by turning a blind eye to the other woman, knowing that it will blow away. They hold their heads up high and smile believing that men are easily aroused and that the other woman doesnt stop their men from being good husbands and fathers. They would never dream of a divorce or of confronting the other woman.

[jj33]

I had been told that the marriage was a sham by others I had never raised it with him. We really never discussed their marriage. When he was able to sleep at my house a few nights a week for the first few months I just assume what I had been told was true. When W started placing a lot of demands on his time I raised it and he was upfront. That if he has little hijinks its ok but the playing house on such a frequent basis was more than their little understanding allowed. As I said in another thread its a matter of plausible excuses. A herd of goats on the road is not plausible. Something a bit less far fetched is fine. As long as it keeps things pleasant. They are not Asian. They are the dont talk about it if its messy type. But the mindset of the women is the same. As I said I was naive.

[wildsoul]

When MM was faced with a situation whereby, I had already walked away from the A, he had another "discussion" with W. Apparently, he did this because he thought that she wasn't being serious all these years and he had wanted to spend the rest of his live with me and no more sneaking around.

 

Should I finally grab this chance of being with him? Like JJ33, after so much aggravation, so much uncertainties, this latest episode has made me question the past 3years, how much if any was it true. Why only when faced with such a drastic situation, when it finally hit home that I had walked away, that he decided to confront his W? So, how much was this "we lead separate lives" was true?

Hello there. Your reasons for questioning (and also leaving) are valid. Yes, of course his wife only heard what she wanted to hear, and also what he wanted her to hear. It's the same with us. Seems to me that you've got a fresh start now. I think your term "grab this chance," speaks volumes. Intead of grabbing, try letting go. See what comes to you. Remain centered, without reaching. My hunch is this is just another time when he is offering you hope without substance, motivated by him feeling your loss. Ride it out.

 

Curious. Since you say you don't mind being in a long term affair. You make it sound like you don't care if he's divorced, but want the wife to be in agreement where your R is out in the open. Is that right?