support or not support while in IC

[Mino]

Hello Everybody, My mm is finally in IC, after another attempt to leave w, and failing. He is trying to find the courage/strenghth to leave, without fear. I am having a hard time supporting him. After 3 years, it getting to hard. I want to be there for him but I find myself being really negative, any thoughts? We talk alot, and I see he is really trying hard...... but this is all to slow for me, and I am fusterated because of the holidays are coming.....

[GreenEyedLady]

What do you need to do for yourself?

 

Think of you here...If he is not meeting your needs, perhaps you should walk away...

 

He needs to support you, he needs to be strong for you and he needs to fight for you...

 

If he cannot do that, then how is that trying?

 

I hope that doesn't come across harsh...Just take care of you...He's taking care of himself...

 

(((HUGS)))

[annabelle75]

What do you need to do for yourself?

 

Think of you here...If he is not meeting your needs, perhaps you should walk away...

 

He needs to support you, he needs to be strong for you and he needs to fight for you...

 

If he cannot do that, then how is that trying?

 

I hope that doesn't come across harsh...Just take care of you...He's taking care of himself...

 

(((HUGS)))

 

That is great advice. We should all take it, no matter what kind of relationship we are in.

[frannie]

Hello Everybody, My mm is finally in IC, after another attempt to leave w, and failing. He is trying to find the courage/strenghth to leave, without fear. I am having a hard time supporting him. After 3 years, it getting to hard. I want to be there for him but I find myself being really negative, any thoughts? We talk alot, and I see he is really trying hard...... but this is all to slow for me, and I am fusterated because of the holidays are coming.....

 

Oh gosh. After 3.5 years, my MM is in IC too for the same reasons. And I'm having exactly the same problem... to be in contact with him or not? To 'support' him, or not?

 

As I've written in another thread, I've decided that for the moment, he can ask to call me if there are any developments, or he needs to talk anything over that's come up. How that will work I have no idea. The main issue I see is that I can't really 'support' him as I'm not exactly uninvolved in the outcome. I can try to be, and I am as much as possible... i try to remain neutral and think of him as a friend and tell him that whatever decision he ultimately makes I'll be pleased for him. BUT... where does that leave me, and my heart..?

 

Very difficult situation, and I look forward to seeing other responses, and your own thoughts, Mino.

[Impudent Oyster]

Hello Everybody, My mm is finally in IC, after another attempt to leave w, and failing. He is trying to find the courage/strenghth to leave, without fear.

 

So you're saying that he's in IC to learn how to break up his marriage? That's a new one!

[frannie]

So you're saying that he's in IC to learn how to break up his marriage? That's a new one!

 

Obviously it's neither new nor unusual. My MM is in counselling for exactly the same reason.

 

Not 'to break up his marriage' as you put it, but to deal with the situation he's in: in love with one woman, married to another, and staying in an unhappy situation out of a sense of duty. That is a reason for counselling if ever I saw one.

[Impudent Oyster]

Obviously it's neither new nor unusual. My MM is in counselling for exactly the same reason.

 

Not 'to break up his marriage' as you put it, but to deal with the situation he's in: in love with one woman, married to another, and staying in an unhappy situation out of a sense of duty. That is a reason for counselling if ever I saw one.

 

Actually, the OP stated specifically that he's "in counseling to find the courage to leave".

 

No one needs to see a counselor to know that NO ONE stays in an unhappy situation out of a "sense of duty", especially if they are truly in love with someone else. No one is that altruistic, they are, by nature, selfish.

 

He's staying because he wants to stay, not out of any phoney "sense of duty". That's a crock if I ever heard one.

[frannie]

Actually, the OP stated specifically that he's "in counseling to find the courage to leave".

 

No one needs to see a counselor to know that NO ONE stays in an unhappy situation out of a "sense of duty", especially if they are truly in love with someone else. No one is that altruistic, they are, by nature, selfish.

 

He's staying because he wants to stay, not out of any phoney "sense of duty". That's a crock if I ever heard one.

 

Well if no one stays in a situation out of a 'sense of duty' we shall expect to see many other MM leaving in short order. You're completely wrong on that, IO, I'm afraid. Many men are doing exactly that all the time. And in fact those were the very words used to my MM by his counsellor.

 

But, of course, it doesn't mean that MM is doing something he doesn't want to do. Staying in a M because of a sense of duty can be exactly what they want. No one is saying anyone is being altruistic. It's a choice made. And if counselling leads to them being happy with that choice, that's a good outcome.

[Impudent Oyster]

If MM had any true "sense of duty" they wouldn't be lying to their wives.

 

Where was that sense then? Does it just disappear and reappear when it's convenient?

 

It's more like a sense of MM doing what's best for MM and coming up with some BS to make him sound like he's not the bad guy.

 

If I ever felt like a man was staying with me out of some trumped up sense of duty I'd kick him out so fast his head would spin.

 

Tell you what, tell his wife that he's only with her because he feels it's his duty even though he really loves you. Watch how fast she kicks him to the curb, counseling will be totally unnecessary.

[Mino]

Obviously it's neither new nor unusual. My MM is in counselling for exactly the same reason.

 

Not 'to break up his marriage' as you put it, but to deal with the situation he's in: in love with one woman, married to another, and staying in an unhappy situation out of a sense of duty. That is a reason for counselling if ever I saw one.

Thank you Frannie for explaining that one,

[frannie]

If MM had any true "sense of duty" they wouldn't be lying to their wives.

 

Where was that sense then? Does it just disappear and reappear when it's convenient?

 

It's more like a sense of MM doing what's best for MM and coming up with some BS to make him sound like he's not the bad guy.

 

If I ever felt like a man was staying with me out of some trumped up sense of duty I'd kick him out so fast his head would spin.

 

Tell you what, tell his wife that he's only with her because he feels it's his duty even though he really loves you. Watch how fast she kicks him to the curb, counseling will be totally unnecessary.

 

"If MM had any true "sense of duty" they wouldn't be lying to their wives."

 

I guess that's what the counselling is about, what do you think?

 

"If I ever felt like a man was staying with me out of some trumped up sense of duty I'd kick him out so fast his head would spin."

 

I guess that's why a WS would lie to the BS, what do you think?

 

"Tell you what, tell his wife that he's only with her because he feels it's his duty even though he really loves you. Watch how fast she kicks him to the curb, counseling will be totally unnecessary"

 

Um, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that's not really a route to a successful future relationship.

[frannie]

Thank you Frannie for explaining that one,

 

You're welcome... so... any thoughts so far on whether to 'support or not to support' MM during IC?

[EnigmaXOXO]

Support should be all the way around. So where’s yours coming from?

 

Hard to hold someone up if you’re buckling under the weight, too.

 

I think the best outcome would result from allowing the person in counseling to go through the process of sorting themselves out with as little outside pressure as possible. It’s something that councilors often advise. Part of what makes a person indecisive in the first place is when they feel they’re being pushed or pulled in too many directions. They’ll either dig their heels in and refuse to budge one way or the other ... or continue to allow others to determine the course of their lives for them. What you want is a “healthier” man coming out on the other side of this, rather than the same confused person he was going in.

 

Better to support the “process” rather than the hopeful outcome, for now. It’s the only way to ever guarantee that whatever conclusion he reaches is his alone ... and that no longer will anyone else have to assume the responsibility or blame.

[noforgiveness]

If the counsellor is any good I think he will tell mm that he needs to stop speaking with you while he decides what his feelings are. He can not decide where his marriage stands with you holding him up. You're having a tug of war with his heart. If he's that torn he needs IC then you need to step back for a bit as Frannie is doing. If he loves you your relationship should withstand that.

[complicatedlife]

This might sound weird, but I did a sort of "poll" and asked men between the ages of 32 and 45 with at least 1 child how they think they would handle the situation of being inlove with another woman while married and the marriage is not happy. I received over 200 responses - 25% said they would leave, another 25% of the men said they would WANT to leave the marriage but it would be difficult (most talked of finances here), 50% said they would stay until the kid(s) were 18 and hope the OW would stand by them but know most would not. I found it quite interesting and received much insight on their thought process from talking with them.

[Mino]

Support should be all the way around. So where’s yours coming from?

 

Hard to hold someone up if you’re buckling under the weight, too.

 

I think the best outcome would result from allowing the person in counseling to go through the process of sorting themselves out with as little outside pressure as possible. It’s something that councilors often advise. Part of what makes a person indecisive in the first place is when they feel they’re being pushed or pulled in too many directions. They’ll either dig their heels in and refuse to budge one way or the other ... or continue to allow others to determine the course of their lives for them. What you want is a “healthier” man coming out on the other side of this, rather than the same confused person he was going in.

 

Better to support the “process” rather than the hopeful outcome, for now. It’s the only way to ever guarantee that whatever conclusion he reaches is his alone ... and that no longer will anyone else have to assume the responsibility or blame.

Thank you, very good information that you have given me:)

[Mino]

If the counsellor is any good I think he will tell mm that he needs to stop speaking with you while he decides what his feelings are. He can not decide where his marriage stands with you holding him up. You're having a tug of war with his heart. If he's that torn he needs IC then you need to step back for a bit as Frannie is doing. If he loves you your relationship should withstand that.

Yes, you are right, the counselor did advice us not to see each other doing this time. We have tried this, but we do work together. after 4 days of not seeing each other we usually break the nc, its so hard to do, Thank you for your insight,

[JamesM]

Hello Everybody, My mm is finally in IC, after another attempt to leave w, and failing. He is trying to find the courage/strenghth to leave, without fear. I am having a hard time supporting him. After 3 years, it getting to hard. I want to be there for him but I find myself being really negative, any thoughts? We talk alot, and I see he is really trying hard...... but this is all to slow for me, and I am fusterated because of the holidays are coming.....

 

Have you considered the possibility that he really does NOT want to leave? I know what he says, but many MM still love the wife very much. I wonder if it is so much courage as it is the finality of saying good bye to a woman he still loves.

 

Have you considered if you want to live your life with a man who does not have the courage to make such a decision for you?

 

And I don't mean to be harsh, but if it takes counseling to make him realize that he loves you more than his wife...what does that say about his love for you? What does that say about how important you are to him? Shouldn't he be able to leave for you if the love is there? And if he fears his wife this much....do you think he will be able to be a good partner to you?

 

Just some thoughts. I think that maybe in your best interest, you should back off until he is willing to give up his wife for you. Supporting him in counseling is similar to if you helped him make the decision that he should make on his own.

[Mino]

You're welcome... so... any thoughts so far on whether to 'support or not to support' MM during IC?

Hi Frannie, Gee this is a tough one..... My mm is trying hard, but has a lot of guilt and fear. I know he would not be going through all this if he didnt want to move forward in his life. This A is already over 3 years, no fun for anyone, more pain then anything elses. We work together, so nc is hard to do. We talk alot, he does not have friends to open upn to, so I am the one he can talk to. My heart hurts, Sometimes I just want to dissapear and start a new life elsewhere, and forget everything here. I am at my wits end, damn if I do , damned if I don't

[Mino]

Actually, the OP stated specifically that he's "in counseling to find the courage to leave".

 

No one needs to see a counselor to know that NO ONE stays in an unhappy situation out of a "sense of duty", especially if they are truly in love with someone else. No one is that altruistic, they are, by nature, selfish.

 

He's staying because he wants to stay, not out of any phoney "sense of duty". That's a crock if I ever heard one.

Hi IO , I understand you point of view. makes sense to me. But its not always black and white. My mm has ocd, Has been in treatment with really heavy doses of meds, even upped the dosage to max, which was not good. The reason he is in IC, is so he can learn to make himself happy, and life his life, forhimself, Many people live their life for others. Because that is what is expected of them, from family members, friends, society..... I guess its keeping up with the " image " but in reality they are not being true to themselves. With Ic, hopefully he will learn to make himself happy first. Because if you are not happy with yourself, its hard to make someone elses happy. The problem with his Condition is that his is also ruled by fear, if you know anything about this condition , its not easy to deal with.

[Mino]

What do you need to do for yourself?

 

Think of you here...If he is not meeting your needs, perhaps you should walk away...

 

He needs to support you, he needs to be strong for you and he needs to fight for you...

 

If he cannot do that, then how is that trying?

 

I hope that doesn't come across harsh...Just take care of you...He's taking care of himself...

 

(((HUGS)))

Thank you Gel,

[JamesM]

The reason he is in IC, is so he can learn to make himself happy, and life his life, for himself, Many people live their life for others. Because that is what is expected of them, from family members, friends, society..... I guess its keeping up with the " image " but in reality they are not being true to themselves.

 

The problem with his Condition is that his is also ruled by fear, if you know anything about this condition , its not easy to deal with.

 

Question...then if he is trying to find himself, then how will it help him if you are supporting him by being in his life? Will he be able to discover what HE wants if he thinks that his ultimate goal from counseling is to leave his wife to be with you? Shouldn't this be a time where he needs to be on his own? And if he does finally gain the assertiveness to be himself, then is it not a possibility that his wife loves the new him and he loves how she becomes?

 

I do know a lot about OCD. My mother has it, and it became a problem many times as I grew up. Her problem was not so much a willingness to please others, but it was a big need to control her world and everyone it...including her children. At the time, I had no clue what she had and being 25 to 30 years ago, I doubt she did either. She is much improved now, but remnants are still there.

 

Personally, I have some of it in me as well. I have had obsessive thoughts and reacted in rituals to prevent them. Since I am a research kinda guy, this sent me on a mission to discover what I had, and in the process I discovered what she had. It has been a number of years since I have been bothered by it to any great extent It does bring much fear into one's life. And there are still times when I am overly stressed that I get some obsessive thoughts.

 

My point is...never did I feel the need to cheat on my wife because I was afraid of leaving her. My mother was never one who needed to please my father or her children...far from it. Our goal was to step on eggshells so as not to upset her world. She had a great fear that something would happen to us if we left her for too long...this ruled out any school trips during that time. Our feelings did not matter. The OCD is a separate issue, I think.

 

He probably also has a lot of insecurity issues and may feel the need to please others or live up to others expectations. He needs counseling for sure, but it is not to leave his wife and come to you. It is to discover how to deal with life in general.

 

There is also the distinct possibility that his affair with you has increased his OCD symptoms. Extra stress, worry, anger, and guilt definitely has an impact on OCD symptoms. The need to control one's world increases. Rituals increase. It is not all about making himself happy, but it is about making his world secure.

 

I hope that he did not go as a way to gain courage to leave his wife. I hope he went as a way to find a solution to OCD. The result may be a new him and a new marriage for him. Or the new him may no longer want to be in his marriage. In either case, this is why I think that you should leave the picture until he makes his own choices for once in his life...without being influenced by someone else.

[Mino]

Question...then if he is trying to find himself, then how will it help him if you are supporting him by being in his life? Will he be able to discover what HE wants if he thinks that his ultimate goal from counseling is to leave his wife to be with you? Shouldn't this be a time where he needs to be on his own? And if he does finally gain the assertiveness to be himself, then is it not a possibility that his wife loves the new him and he loves how she becomes?

 

I do know a lot about OCD. My mother has it, and it became a problem many times as I grew up. Her problem was not so much a willingness to please others, but it was a big need to control her world and everyone it...including her children. At the time, I had no clue what she had and being 25 to 30 years ago, I doubt she did either. She is much improved now, but remnants are still there.

 

Personally, I have some of it in me as well. I have had obsessive thoughts and reacted in rituals to prevent them. Since I am a research kinda guy, this sent me on a mission to discover what I had, and in the process I discovered what she had. It has been a number of years since I have been bothered by it to any great extent It does bring much fear into one's life. And there are still times when I am overly stressed that I get some obsessive thoughts.

 

My point is...never did I feel the need to cheat on my wife because I was afraid of leaving her. My mother was never one who needed to please my father or her children...far from it. Our goal was to step on eggshells so as not to upset her world. She had a great fear that something would happen to us if we left her for too long...this ruled out any school trips during that time. Our feelings did not matter. The OCD is a separate issue, I think.

 

He probably also has a lot of insecurity issues and may feel the need to please others or live up to others expectations. He needs counseling for sure, but it is not to leave his wife and come to you. It is to discover how to deal with life in general.

 

There is also the distinct possibility that his affair with you has increased his OCD symptoms. Extra stress, worry, anger, and guilt definitely has an impact on OCD symptoms. The need to control one's world increases. Rituals increase. It is not all about making himself happy, but it is about making his world secure.

 

I hope that he did not go as a way to gain courage to leave his wife. I hope he went as a way to find a solution to OCD. The result may be a new him and a new marriage for him. Or the new him may no longer want to be in his marriage. In either case, this is why I think that you should leave the picture until he makes his own choices for once in his life...without being influenced by someone else.

Thank you James for all your knowlege, my mm m was unhappy before I came along. We have been together over 3 years. He has tried to leave already 9 times. Wow, thats alot, now that I am looking at the number. The ocd, gives him fear attacks, he then ritualizes this. He feels dooms day will happen, total chaos will happen and people he cares for, that something bad will happen to them. He took meds for this, but meds numbed him, spaced him out. So now he is coming off of them. Counselor says that he is trying to please everyone but himself. He gets along with w, its not like they are fighting, but have little more in common then their child. He says he want to be with me, He started IC for these fear attacks, and to learn to control them. He is now also covering our A. He has told C that he wants to leave M, Now they are going back to childhood to find out what triggered his ocd, and why he feeels he has to sacrifice his life for others. C says he needs to find self love to be able to follow his heart. I nknow I am tired. I love him and I know he loves me, but life shouldnt be so hard....

[PLAYBRAT]

Hi Mino....I understand your frustration....

9 times is a LOT of times to TRY leaving without going through with it.

 

The question is....how long are YOU willing to put your life on hold

so this man can figure his life out??

 

I am sure you love him...but this sounds like something HE needs to do on his own. I read the book Women Who LOve Too Much...I think reading that could benefit you tremendously..IF you are willing to actually SEE

that this IS in fact a problem for you. You seem to be letting this man's problems and lack of commitment determine YOUR direction in life.Why are you waiting?

 

Don't you think if he REALLY wants to be with you he will do what NEEDS to be done and find you? Men don't forget women they truly LOVE and WANT to be with.It just doesn't happen that way. Trust me when I tell you this!!!!

 

I think you have been given a lot of good advice..but I think you should rethink waiting on this guy any longer. Seems he has a LOT more issues than just being a MM....IMO

[Mino]

Hi Mino....I understand your frustration....

9 times is a LOT of times to TRY leaving without going through with it.

 

The question is....how long are YOU willing to put your life on hold

so this man can figure his life out??

 

I am sure you love him...but this sounds like something HE needs to do on his own. I read the book Women Who LOve Too Much...I think reading that could benefit you tremendously..IF you are willing to actually SEE

that this IS in fact a problem for you. You seem to be letting this man's problems and lack of commitment determine YOUR direction in life.Why are you waiting?

 

Don't you think if he REALLY wants to be with you he will do what NEEDS to be done and find you? Men don't forget women they truly LOVE and WANT to be with.It just doesn't happen that way. Trust me when I tell you this!!!!

 

I think you have been given a lot of good advice..but I think you should rethink waiting on this guy any longer. Seems he has a LOT more issues than just being a MM....IMO

Thank you playbrat, i have heard of the vbook, but have not read it. I think I have been given alot of good advice on this thread, now I guess its time to put a pan together. Thanks for your support;)