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Marriage in free fall (very long)


Marriage & Life Partnerships Debunking the old-ball-and-chain stereotype one couple at a time.

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Old 4th November 2017, 7:56 AM   #61
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It's honestly so upsetting to read this story.

I really think your wife took advantage of you when you were young. It's sad. Why would a grown woman ask you, a 21 year old at the time I'm guessing, to have a kid with her. You were young, what the hell did you know? When I was 19 or even 21 I knew nothing. I was a young adult and I was barely able to support myself.

I've dated quite a lot and I've heard that older women with kids struggle in the dating scene. I think they have a smaller dating pool because many men their age or older, do not want to date women who already have kids with other men. I think that being older with kids didn't help her in the dating scene.

I think that when she saw that you were interested in her, she didn't hesitate to grab on to you because she may not have had a lot of options. Also, you were young and I hate to say it but very easy to manipulate especially by a woman who is much older than you.

This is just my speculation. Why would a grown woman ask such a young man who is practically still a kid himself to have a kid with her? I am positive that at that age you barely knew what you were doing. I feel like she stole your youth to be honest.
I haven't wanted to look at things this way because the reality just isn't pleasant, but there's a distinct possibility that pretty much everything you have said is correct.

Because I was an only child and never had a dad around (he moved out when I was 3 and later relocated to California) I vowed to NEVER leave my kids and to always fight for them and a good family life. I regret agreeing to having our son after only being together for 4 months. By the time he was born we had been together 13 months. Within a year of that period I was hating life and feeling stuck.

I always thought that unhappiness was a transient period where you have to fight through and work through hard times. I was motivated like no one else to make things right. Instead of facing reality, I ignored it and proposed to my wife 3.5 years after we met. I was determined to pursue a career working on an oil rig, earning good money, where a buddy of mine tried to help me get into. That didn't work as the financial crisis ruined that.

My father in law paid for the wedding and straight after we got married we conceived our little girl, born in September 2010. Everything fell apart from pretty much that point onwards and I won't repeat what I've already posted on page 1, other than what I have already posted which was to try and give context to my direct response to this post. The rest is there - the beginning of the end. Where everything goes from here, I'm really not sure.

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Old 4th November 2017, 9:09 AM   #62
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Hi Trailblazer, I guess you find yourself between a rock and a hard place right now. Most folks on here have analysed your situation fairly accurately and given you good feedback which you would do well to give a once over. Having said that, I would not like to rehash what others have said. I made a post a while ago along some of the lines that others have been talking about so I will leave it at that and talk about something else to shift your focus a bit.

The fact is that after reading your replies to what other people have written, I have noticed that you are able to express yourself very well and your command over the language and also your analytical skills are very good. You are able to Marshall your thoughts and arguments in a manner which makes the maximum impact. I do not know what your educational qualifications are, but considering that you branched out into the field of a mechanic, makes me think that you gave up the opportunity of going to college and pursuing some kind of a professional qualification like a Masters in Business Administration or some other such qualification which would have enabled you to join the corporate sector and done better in terms of a good income as compared to your current profession. To my mind it appears that it may yet not be too late for you to take up a college education by attending night classes or whichever way it is possible. You seem to have the latent talent for it if you put your mind to it. I would suggest a couple of books that could get you going on a path of self improvement. These books are "Psycho-Cybernetics" by Dr. Maxwell Maltz and "Finding your own North Star" by Martha Beck. These two books could be life changing for you and since you are on the cusp of your future, a step taken in the right direction now will yield results that are incomparable to the effort you put in to achieve them. You could yet become the man who beats his own wife's expectations by a humongous mile. Just think about it. Don't lament your situation. Remember the saying "If you are handed a lemon make a lemonade"! Warm wishes.
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Old 4th November 2017, 2:42 PM   #63
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op,
I'm not going to write a huge epistle to you, as it sounds like what you want right now is far more pragmatic.

Here's a bit of advice. I hope it's helpful to you.

First off, your kids are old enough to be helping out around the house. I've got three kids myself, and believe me, parents do not help their children by coddling them. they can help clean, cook, do the marketing, etc. How else are they ever going to survive on their own if they haven't learned how? You and your wife are not their buddies or friends, you are their parents. It's a very different kettle of fish.

second, tell your wife to smarten up. I fully expect that her view of your situation could be very different than your, but she is a mother of four kids in her forties. this isn't the time to start a new career as a police officer, especially when she doesn't meet the criteria. Am I right that she is an attorney? If so, then why doesn't she return to that career instead of bitching at you for not making the money she wants?

third, in spite of what I just mentioned, I don't think your wife is a terrible person She sounds stressed, tired, ill and disappointed. Both your tanks are on empty. Is there any way that the two of you can get away, even just overnight? Have the older kids watch the younger ones and scrape together a bit of money and book into a local bed and breakfast, go camping, do something on your own. My spouse and I have been married 20 years, and we just got to have our first "alone" weekend away. It was really nice ( our kids all have health issues or developmental delays, so for us, all of this had to wait until hey were at a place where they can be on their own)

fourth- give yourselves a break. It's hard being a parent, and you both have a whole lot of extra stress besides that to carry. Letting yourself get wound tighter and tighter helps no one. Decompress. Sit your kids down as a group and have a family discussion about money and how, at least for now, belts will need to be tightened, and that includes them. even younger kids can understand this, and it can be an important life lesson for them.

fifth- your wife sounds like she has some mental health issues. She may not want help, but as the saying goes "physician, heal thyself". This should be a priority over any sort of weight loss surgery ( which, if things are as tight as you say, how can she justify that surgery? From what I understand, it won't magically fix her prediabetes)

I do hope that you and your can slow down, take a breath and decompress. I've been in a similar place to where you are, and it's hard. Be kind to yourselves.
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Old 6th November 2017, 3:13 PM   #64
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Hi Trailblazer, I guess you find yourself between a rock and a hard place right now. Most folks on here have analysed your situation fairly accurately and given you good feedback which you would do well to give a once over. Having said that, I would not like to rehash what others have said. I made a post a while ago along some of the lines that others have been talking about so I will leave it at that and talk about something else to shift your focus a bit.

The fact is that after reading your replies to what other people have written, I have noticed that you are able to express yourself very well and your command over the language and also your analytical skills are very good. You are able to Marshall your thoughts and arguments in a manner which makes the maximum impact. I do not know what your educational qualifications are, but considering that you branched out into the field of a mechanic, makes me think that you gave up the opportunity of going to college and pursuing some kind of a professional qualification like a Masters in Business Administration or some other such qualification which would have enabled you to join the corporate sector and done better in terms of a good income as compared to your current profession. To my mind it appears that it may yet not be too late for you to take up a college education by attending night classes or whichever way it is possible. You seem to have the latent talent for it if you put your mind to it. I would suggest a couple of books that could get you going on a path of self improvement. These books are "Psycho-Cybernetics" by Dr. Maxwell Maltz and "Finding your own North Star" by Martha Beck. These two books could be life changing for you and since you are on the cusp of your future, a step taken in the right direction now will yield results that are incomparable to the effort you put in to achieve them. You could yet become the man who beats his own wife's expectations by a humongous mile. Just think about it. Don't lament your situation. Remember the saying "If you are handed a lemon make a lemonade"! Warm wishes.
Thanks for the kind words buddy. I can't remember if I've mentioned it but I am doing an associate's degree in management through Portland Community College. So far I have been doing it for 3 years, part time. It has been a bit of a grind but I am getting there with it. It comprises practical and online learning, and I have gotten a lot out of it. Meeting people from backgrounds very different to my own and expanding my networks will hopefully yield some successful results in the future.

I wouldn't say I gave up going to college because of any other life choices. It's never too late and I said that from the very beginning of my apprenticeship. I was never one to really want to be stuck in an office all day and I do prefer to use my brain for practical things. Having said that, I have been a mechanic including my apprenticeship for 15 years so the time is right to try and move up into something better. I have a few plans for down the track, so i guess we'll see how things go in the not too distant future.
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Old 6th November 2017, 3:42 PM   #65
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op,
I'm not going to write a huge epistle to you, as it sounds like what you want right now is far more pragmatic.

Here's a bit of advice. I hope it's helpful to you.

First off, your kids are old enough to be helping out around the house. I've got three kids myself, and believe me, parents do not help their children by coddling them. they can help clean, cook, do the marketing, etc. How else are they ever going to survive on their own if they haven't learned how? You and your wife are not their buddies or friends, you are their parents. It's a very different kettle of fish.

second, tell your wife to smarten up. I fully expect that her view of your situation could be very different than your, but she is a mother of four kids in her forties. this isn't the time to start a new career as a police officer, especially when she doesn't meet the criteria. Am I right that she is an attorney? If so, then why doesn't she return to that career instead of bitching at you for not making the money she wants?

third, in spite of what I just mentioned, I don't think your wife is a terrible person She sounds stressed, tired, ill and disappointed. Both your tanks are on empty. Is there any way that the two of you can get away, even just overnight? Have the older kids watch the younger ones and scrape together a bit of money and book into a local bed and breakfast, go camping, do something on your own. My spouse and I have been married 20 years, and we just got to have our first "alone" weekend away. It was really nice ( our kids all have health issues or developmental delays, so for us, all of this had to wait until hey were at a place where they can be on their own)

fourth- give yourselves a break. It's hard being a parent, and you both have a whole lot of extra stress besides that to carry. Letting yourself get wound tighter and tighter helps no one. Decompress. Sit your kids down as a group and have a family discussion about money and how, at least for now, belts will need to be tightened, and that includes them. even younger kids can understand this, and it can be an important life lesson for them.

fifth- your wife sounds like she has some mental health issues. She may not want help, but as the saying goes "physician, heal thyself". This should be a priority over any sort of weight loss surgery ( which, if things are as tight as you say, how can she justify that surgery? From what I understand, it won't magically fix her prediabetes)

I do hope that you and your can slow down, take a breath and decompress. I've been in a similar place to where you are, and it's hard. Be kind to yourselves.
I'm on my cell phone so it's hard to address all your points by quoting them individually. I will try to adress them all anyway.

Firstly, my stepdaughter helps out around the house a lot. She works part-time at a diner and makes a small financial contribution to the household. She looks after our youngest daughter a fair bit, especially in times like summer break when my wife might be doing work or the like. She's great for the most part. My stepson on the other hand can be aloof at times and is less willing to help out. He spends a lot of time between work and his girlfriend's house. What little time he spends at home isn't spent doing chores. But he does contribute financially towards his own expenses.

It's been a contentious issue with my wife wanting to join the police. She thinks it's her best way to make money and has been told by a cop we know as well as the recruitment department that anyone with a certain college degree, or more, gets fast tracked through the application process. Once she has her surgery she will meet the criteria. As for her not getting a legal job - the aforementioned financial issues (bankruptcy) has meant that obtaining a government job similar to what she was doing is untenable.

My wife's not a terrible person at all. She's far from perfect and a lot of things about her I find difficult to handle, but in many ways we're just incompatible so we bring the worst of each other out. What I will say is that we have managed to get away a few times a year and it does help. Between my father in law and stepdaughter, they have looked after our kids to allow us a little respite on many occasions. While it helps, it doesn't fix the core issues though.

I'm unsure whether my wife has mental health issues. She had a harsh upbringing with an abusive mother and a asperger's younger brother who she shielded through the worst of the domestic violence they were subjected to. She had a bad run with boyfriends before me as well, so yeah she hasn't had it easy. Being a psychologist (qualified) it's been hard for me to convince her to get any therapy. She says she knows how it all works and if she's diagnosed with anything she already knows the coping mechanisms they'll employ. She also said she doesn't want meds because they will make her less functional.

As for the surgery, there's been many documented cases of people stopping the onset of type 2 diabetes afterwards. The aim of the surgery is rapid weight loss. It stands to reason that people who can rapidly drop and maintain weight loss will see a reversal of pre-diabetes and insulin resistance, thus ensuring full-blown type 2 diabetes isn't developed and in most cases negating the need for meds like metformin and the like which have unfavourable side effects. Just Google bariatric surgery and type 2 diabetes reversal if you want to know more info than I'm qualified to provide.
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Old 27th December 2017, 7:48 AM   #66
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My wife just informed me she wants me to move out in the new year. We've been up all night talking about things and she's just gone to bed.

I should feel sad, but I actually feel relieved. Not living with my kids hasn't sunk in yet and maybe won't until I'm living it, but this marriage has taken a toll on me.

I'm not back to work until the 8th of Jan and my mom is over from Idaho for Christmas and is staying with us until 30th. We've agreed the play "happy spouses" for now.

I'm not really sure what to think or feel - it's kind of bizarre really. There was no anger or hysterics, it was just my wife saying she can't do it anymore and thinks I'm in the same boat.

Anyway, I need to sleep on it and have a think about stuff. I've got to get through the next few days until my mom flies back to Boise then figure out how to proceed.
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Old 29th December 2017, 12:00 PM   #67
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Hi Trail Blazer, sorry to hear the bad news. I can't imagine your wife pulling this on you when the New Year is round the corner. At any rate I think you just have to make the best of a bad bargain. In spite of you're having pulled your weight, it seems that that was not enough for your wife. How is she going to manage for finances? Does she expect you to support her financially while separated? How, then would you manage since you guys are already tight on finances? Just some difficult questions. Wish you the best.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 11:04 PM   #68
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Hi Trail Blazer, sorry to hear the bad news. I can't imagine your wife pulling this on you when the New Year is round the corner. At any rate I think you just have to make the best of a bad bargain. In spite of you're having pulled your weight, it seems that that was not enough for your wife. How is she going to manage for finances? Does she expect you to support her financially while separated? How, then would you manage since you guys are already tight on finances? Just some difficult questions. Wish you the best.
Thanks. She said the final straw was me not taking the local job. She hates that I work far away and hates my current employer (she met the big boss once and thought he was slimy and untrustworthy). She thinks I'm stupid for getting sucked in to their pay rise which, according to her, was only offered because they were desperate and didn't want to lose me. She said that a good employer would not wait until you're out the door with a better offer before offering more money. She said that good employers provide continual pay rises annually.

Don't get me wrong, she's right on many levels and I am disappointed with them that they have only taken notice of my request for greater opportunities, for requesting an annual pay review, for many things really, when I threatened to quit. But, it would be niave of me or anyone to think that this is the only place that operates like this. Pretty much every auto repair shop that I know of works this way to some degree. There's definitely a level of unprofessionalism about the industry which I find frustrating - even moreso now that I have a qualification in business management and I know what makes a good company tick.

My wife thinks I don't take enough risks. My wife thinks I choose the wellbeing of myself over her and, to a lesser extent, the family. She has had her weight loss surgery performed just before Christmas, has already lost 10lb, while her goal to lose another 50lb will be realized by summer. It has been a big thing she's done and she found it hard going over Christmas, having to be on a liquid diet while everyone ate Turkey, leg ham, roast potatoes etc (which she prepared for all of us upon her insistence).

I don't know how she will afford everything. Her son is a smart kid (20 years old) and is already a manager at our local Walmart and is acting store manager on many occasions. The store owner loves him and is grooming him to be store manager one day. He's esrning good money these days and is a good kid who wants to help out. My stepdaughter works part time at an aged care facility and balances the rest of her time helping out with our 2 kids (11 and 7 years old).

As for my wife, she plans to apply for the police around Easter, with the application process taking a little while. She plans to be in the academy by summer, but for the moment she's just got some shifts at Walmart and has occasional work at one of the Willamette Valley wineries. Between the 3 of them, and her dad helping out a bit, plus child support I'll be paying, she should just get by.

As for me, well I've been in contact with a few agents about some rental homes. I'll only be moving 15 miles away and I'll see the kids all the time. My wife is a good woman who has zero desire to use our kids in a power struggle. She wants us to work together for the kids' sake. Financially I will be doing okay. I told my mom when she got back to Idaho on the 31st of December and she offered to help me out financially if I need it.

It's all disappointing and a bit hard to swallow. It's sad that 2 people can feel like they're both compromising so much, yet they are poles apart when it comes to actually meeting in the middle. I'm not surprised one bit that it has come to this though. I joined up in August and created this thread straight afterwards as things were in free fall and I wasn't wrong when I felt that neither of us could keep going on like this and eventually we'd crack.

I guess that's life sometimes.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 1:22 PM   #69
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Wow, what a turn of events. After following this thread, as sad as it is turning out, I do believe that this is for the best in the long run.

I think you two were just very incompatible and sometimes as much as we want to "Keep the family together", it becomes clear that there isn't the base, the couple connection to do so.

I am actually happy for you as I think you needed her to be the one to initiate this. It sounds like you have a chance to move forward without a lot of guilt or ugliness and you are committed to seeing your kids. Those things right there will sustain you!

I wish you the best of luck. It will be hard but you will get through it.

If so inclined, come back and let us know how you are doing.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 3:08 PM   #70
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Hi Trailblazer, I guess you've been presented with another challenge in your already difficult life and I get the feeling your wife has set the bar very high with regard to you. I wanted to ask you about your emotional equation with your wife? Had she become emotionally distant from you for some time past or is she still emotionally close with you? As far as this decision of hers asking you to move out is concerned, was it a well considered one thought bout properly by her or was it more of a knee jerk decision made petulantly because you did not follow her lead in taking up the local job?
Was she influenced in any way by her friend?

I get the feeling that this is going to be a temporary separation and she will rethink her decision asking you to move out once the reality of your absence sinks in. The trauma of her operation and her forced dieting at such a time may have tipped her balanced thinking leading t9 this situation. However, once you have moved out you yourself may want to stay separated. I guess you will have to play it by ear over the next few weeks. One thing I would suggest is that you actively seek out a better position commensurate with your new qualifications so that you can prove to your wife that the spark of ambition still burns bright within you. Warm wishes.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 8:15 PM   #71
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Wow, what a turn of events. After following this thread, as sad as it is turning out, I do believe that this is for the best in the long run.

I think you two were just very incompatible and sometimes as much as we want to "Keep the family together", it becomes clear that there isn't the base, the couple connection to do so.

I am actually happy for you as I think you needed her to be the one to initiate this. It sounds like you have a chance to move forward without a lot of guilt or ugliness and you are committed to seeing your kids. Those things right there will sustain you!

I wish you the best of luck. It will be hard but you will get through it.

If so inclined, come back and let us know how you are doing.
Thank you so much. You are right, if I had initiated this I would have been the bad guy. Now, since she was the one to do so, she won't feel like I was the one who burnt her if and when she encounters financial problems down the track.

I've spoken to her kids and they're cool. I think they knew for some time the writing was on the wall. They're not stupid. Our 2 kids took it okay. Our 11 year old son was down for a few minutes but was okay after that. Our 7 year old daughter didn't talk to us for an hour. She snapped out of it after that and has been okay.

I will see the kids every second weekend when they come and stay with me. I will also see them during the week as the kids partake in many extracarricular activities which I will remain a part of.

I will definitely pop in from time to time and update. Thanks for the support.
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Old 5th January 2018, 9:42 AM   #72
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Hey Trail Blazer and happy new year.

I've followed your thread but never had the courage to post in it cause I knew I'd talk badly about your wife. I will try to control my anger towards her by saying, I'm very happy for you! You're almost my age and I had been feeling so sorry for how this woman treated you and how you got to lose your youth with her. But now I'm really happy for you because you will get to live your life without this nightmare. I get not seeing the kids as much will be tough but I am sure you'll find the way to manage. I wish you a happy new year with a happy new life! Your life starts now. Try to make the best of it. I just hope people in your position take your story as an example against doing the poor choices you've made. Every age has the good things that someone should experience. I believe in you that you will manage and you'll find your way. Best wishes! I hope you'll be here in a couple months telling us about this new YOUNG girl you met and you like! Good luck!
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Old 6th January 2018, 12:56 AM   #73
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Hey Trail Blazer and happy new year.

I've followed your thread but never had the courage to post in it cause I knew I'd talk badly about your wife. I will try to control my anger towards her by saying, I'm very happy for you! You're almost my age and I had been feeling so sorry for how this woman treated you and how you got to lose your youth with her. But now I'm really happy for you because you will get to live your life without this nightmare. I get not seeing the kids as much will be tough but I am sure you'll find the way to manage. I wish you a happy new year with a happy new life! Your life starts now. Try to make the best of it. I just hope people in your position take your story as an example against doing the poor choices you've made. Every age has the good things that someone should experience. I believe in you that you will manage and you'll find your way. Best wishes! I hope you'll be here in a couple months telling us about this new YOUNG girl you met and you like! Good luck!
Hi Summerdreams. Thanks for the warm wishes. Despite many opinions of my wife, she is a good woman despite all the things that went wrong. I do appreciate the support and I have tried to represent both sides as accurately as possible.

Remember there are 2 sides to every story and if she were reading I'm sure she'd add things which I have neglected to mention. Whether it would change how you/anyone else thinks, I'm not not sure. The main thing is we are working togethet cooperatively and will remain friends when this all done with.

I have applied for a few rental homes and now I have to sit back and wait. Hopefully I get offered at least 1 of them. I will come back and update every so often. It also helps me track what happens and when if I document it here. LOL.

As for meeting someome new - that will be a long way off. I am totally not ready for anything and doubt I will be for a long time. I will be averse to commitment indefinitely and I fear that any relationships I'd get into would only be self-serving.
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Old 17th January 2018, 12:39 AM   #74
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Hi Trail Blazer, how are things with you? How is the New Year treating you? I do hope you have been able to find accommodation for yourself and have settled in. How are things between you and your wife? In this talk that your wife had with you about your moving out did she bring up divorce? If she did not did you bring it up as a consequence of her asking you to move out? I guess there has to be clarity about this matter on both sides.

Do give us some updates on your situation both on the relationship front and also your new career possibilities. I am sure the New Year is a harbinger of good times for you and your family so something to look forward to. How are your children faring with this new arrangement? Wish you the very best.
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Old 5th February 2018, 1:57 PM   #75
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Hi Trail Blazer, it's been a while since you last posted and I am sure things must have stabilized somewhat in the interim period. Do hope you are doing well both emotionally and physically too. How ate your relations with your wife? Is she distant or is maintaining a normal attitude when you have to interact with her? What about your job search? What little information I am able to glean from the news we get, the job situation seems to be improving in the US. Also, with the price of oil skyrocketing again is there a chance you could get that high paying job on an oil rig? If you do I am sure you will become an attractive proposition for your wife all over again. Do give us a heads up on your current situation and your prospects on the job front. Warm wishes.
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