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Old 14th July 2011, 11:55 PM   #31
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The conversation did continue last night. After my husband was finished watching his show he came upstairs and asked why I looked upset. I told him because he pretty much walked off during our conversation and that I felt like he was dismissing my feelings completely.

He told me to pull up the links I had found clarifying what boundaries within platonic friendships should look like. Upon reading the second article he burst into laughter when the article suggested opposite sex friends should avoid going to coffee shops, to lunch, dinner, drinks, etc. in a one on one situation.

He said that the notion that friends could not go get coffee was absurd. I pointed out that a coffee shop means sitting down together, and pretty much the article is picking out scenarios that are date like.

He said "I'm sorry, but I just don't agree. But I will do whatever makes you happy and will back off of this friendship because you are more important to me" -- something he said last week but didn't quite follow through.

I burst into tears, and told him I don't feel like we're on the same page with our boundaries, and ideologies of marriage. I told him I am beyond frustrated, and although I appreciate him saying he would cut back on interaction with her it still deeply upsets me that we don't see eye to eye on this. That he may cut back with her, but will this happen again? I brought up the past - something I didn't want to do - but felt I needed to broach the subject because it's a recurring one for us.

In the end, he still does not agree but tried to assure me he loves me and will do what makes me comfortable.

Today he sent her several texts trying to invite her to come to lunch with us, and to come on a double date tomorrow night. I know he was inviting her to things where I would be present, and he has expressed he wants me to meet her and to become friends with her. At the same time I am a little annoyed he is sending these messages the night after this blow out, and before consulting with me prior to sending these invitations. It was the same with my brothers wedding reception.
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Old 14th July 2011, 11:58 PM   #32
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One more thing, when he was saying it's just my insecurity again last night I admitted I made this thread on LS. I told him the majority of people agreed that he is overstepping boundaries, and some feel he is outright cheating.

He said of course anyone on a relationship forum would say this, because only insecure or jaded people would come to such a site.

Ugh.
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Old 15th July 2011, 12:16 AM   #33
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Do you think instead of giving him links or mentioning the thread on LS, it would benefit you two to have a few sessions with a marital therapist? It seems like he's willing to hear you, but at the same time dismissing what you have to say. Maybe having a professional third party listen to both of you may help him to understand boundaries better.

You've mentioned in a previous post that you have a mildly autistic child. Even if the child is on the higher end of the spectrum, it's still very challenging to raise such a child on your own so leaving your H should be the last resort. I mentioned this because I saw someone else suggesting you leave him now.
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Old 15th July 2011, 12:32 AM   #34
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One more thing, when he was saying it's just my insecurity again last night I admitted I made this thread on LS. I told him the majority of people agreed that he is overstepping boundaries, and some feel he is outright cheating.

He said of course anyone on a relationship forum would say this, because only insecure or jaded people would come to such a site.

Ugh.
You canít logic this out with him or point out that we all agree with you mostly.

I actually feel you put yourself in this situation by knowingly going forward with a guy who is like this. Youíve gave him a second shot and he is doing the same thing again.

Let me tell you about something that happened with my gf. We had plans to go out to a theme park. She knows I donít want her being ďspecial friendsĒ with guys. A guy at work who she mentioned we were going to the theme park asked to come. She told him ďno.Ē She then came home and said she felt bad about telling the guy ďnoĒ about joining us to the theme park. I told her she was making me angry and that I donít want to feel like a third wheel in my own relationship. That was the end of it. She had been used to being able to hang out with other men while in relationships. I told her if she wanted to be with me thatís not how I role and it has worked out. Iím not going to sit there and explain it to her or logic it out. I know that even with zero cheating and zero possibility of cheating I still wouldnít want that. I still wouldnít want a wife/gf or what ever who hangs out and does stuff with other guys. I myself donít want to go out and date other women if I have a gf. I would be single if thatís what I wanted to do and I donít want some one to do that to me. The only explanation needed is I donít want this kind of relationship with out these boundaries that we are both going to follow. You set yourself up for dram, misery, and if you donít dump him he very well might dump you and imeadetly be in another relationship if you catch my drift.
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Old 15th July 2011, 1:16 AM   #35
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Jen - I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm really worried about you because he is blatantly disregarding your feelings and pretty much ridiculing you for your VALID concerns. Labelling you insecure just takes the focus off him and makes you look guilty. Classic.

Of COURSE he's not attracted to her! She's just his... "best-friend" WHAT?!

I'm sorry I thought YOU were his best friend. Til death do you part. You promised to love, cherish and be faithful, right?

I'm not telling you to leave him - I'm telling you to FIGHT. Stand up for yourself and put your foot down girl. You definitely do NOT want this to go any further than it has.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 1:13 PM   #36
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Just wanted to post an update to my situation.

I accidentally left this thread open on my laptop the last time I posted. I'm normally pretty careful about not doing this, but my battery died while I was reading it and something else must have caught my attention because I never charged it up to close LS down. Anyway, husband ended up using my laptop and found this thread.

He was pretty upset that I would think his buying me flowers was sinister or part of some plot of his to score points with his coworker.

For a couple of weeks we went round and round on this issue. I became more firm in my stance and insisted they could not be friends. No lunches, no facebooking, no texting.

He deleted her from facebook, and his cell phone (not sure what good that did since you can still call/text a person if they're not saved as a contact) and said he would avoid her completely at work.

I felt satisfied with this, but he was angry and kept bringing it up. Especially in the morning before leaving for work. He is too embarrassed to tell her his wife is demanding he end the friendship with her for a couple of reasons. 1. It might imply something inappropriate was taking place and puts him in an awkward situation. By inappropriate I mean something sexual in nature. 2. It is likely the entire office will find out since it's very gossipy there. If his wife was putting her foot down was there more to it than some lunches and talking? It's possible an office rumor may start that he and she were doing more than they were. 3. I think his ego won't allow it. The whole being told what to do by your wife and getting **** from the guys in the office.

I would have liked for him to have just told her that it was his wife's wishes, and that it was nothing personal against her. She could have been any woman in the office. But I realize he wasn't going to do this and he was getting upset every morning before leaving for work because he was avoiding her without telling her why and this was creating a situation where he felt like he was being a jerk and the avoidance without offending her was becoming difficult.

I told him that I did not mind if they spoke AT work. It was the lunches, and discussions occurring OUTSIDE of work that were the main issues. I told him the no lunch part was easy, tell her that he's brown bagging his lunch to save money.

I'm not sure how long this approach will work. I did find out once after I thought we were in agreement that he went to lunch with her and they drove together in her car. This was 2-3 weeks ago. When I discovered this I was furious. Apparently they met up with two other people from the office and he thought that was okay because they weren't dining one on one. I told him he was using loopholes, and that no, I am not okay with him going in her car. He has agreed to not do this again.

So far, I have no indication they are communicating outside of work, or going to lunches together.

I also realized that my husband and I need to spend more time together. We've gone long stretches (six months at times) without going on a single date with one another. When we're at home we both zone out on our laptops, or tv. We hardly were communicating, or spending any time together without our children or family present.

I hired a babysitter to come once a week so we can have a 'date night' and that has been going well. I feel like we're talking more and getting along better. We've been going on two dates a week with the babysitter and my mother/sister babysitting. We've also been going to lunch together once a week.

It has been over a week now the topic has not come up. I hope this remains the case, and for the time being just plan to focus on spending more time together and enjoying each others company.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 9:51 PM   #37
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Guess leaving the computer on was a blessing in disguise.

From where I stand, I don't think he has to tell the other woman that you want him to limit contact with her. The important thing is his actions. That he actually limits contact to what's professional and expected in that office.

I think it's a good idea for all couples to have some time together each week where they do couples activities. You don't have to spend a lot of money doing these things, but the undivided attention you give and get is so valuable in keeping a relationship going. I know in the past I've been guilty of taking my H for granted. These days, we try to talk each evening about our day, thoughts, things we want to do that weekend, anything and everything, small stuff..just the way we used to talk when we were dating. We also try to go out at least once a week just the two of us. Sometimes it's the movies. Sometimes we go to a favorite location and just hang out. Sometimes we've taken a half day off from work to do things we can't during the weekend. Whatever works for you two, but the important thing is to keep the fun in the relationship. Date each other like you did when you were first getting to know each other.

Jennifer - I tried to send you a PM, but couldn't even though you're an established member. Maybe you could PM me instead. I wanted to say something that might be helpful, but I'd rather not post it on a public board.

Last edited by Afishwithabike; 2nd August 2011 at 9:54 PM..
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Old 2nd August 2011, 10:08 PM   #38
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When we're at home we both zone out on our laptops, or tv. We hardly were communicating, or spending any time together without our children or family present.
This is the same thing we had to fix! We now go for a minimum of 30 minute walks after dinner just to chat. If you can't leave the house because of children, then sit outside, have a drink and chat. Turn off the laptop and tvs!

I'm glad to hear things are moving in a positive direction!!! Home comes first before work. You only work to make a happy home in the first place.
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Old 15th August 2011, 12:10 AM   #39
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Its all about trust. Does the facebook/communication situation really make that big of a difference? At least you can see it and nothing is really happening. Would you prefer those platonic activities occur in secret?
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Old 15th August 2011, 9:18 AM   #40
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Is it odd that he would WANT her to be around me if he is attracted to her? I feel conflicted about this one.
I think it's the perfect way for him to cover and hide it. You meet her, maybe you realize she isn't just a whore creeping into your marriage, and so you begin to suspect that maybe you're just overreacting and nothing's really going on. Your husband's banking on that. I can't even believe he'd throw the "But I'd trust you" thing in your face. You know what? There is nothing wrong with not completely trusting other people, especially when they do this crap.

It'd be like if you walked into a room and your husband were holding a knife in a threatening way towards another person. You would, naturally, say, "What are you doing? Don't attack/kill that person!" What the Hell would he say back to you - "I'm not going to kill this person. Why don't you trust me?" He's let all of his game chips out and it all points to "future affair." So the "Wah, you don't trust me bit" is entirely annoying. No, you shouldn't trust a hubby who's showing all the classic signs that he's about to have an affair, if he hasn't already. And him throwing it in your face that you don't 'trust' him is just his attempt to make you feel guilty and to make you back out of the investigation.

My feeling is he's not going to take you seriously with your verdict about the end of the friendship. He had his warning once 6 years ago and apparently blatantly ignored it so he could stop into yet another emotional affair. They're spending way too much time together - he should've kept this to a workplace friendship. Occasional personal chatter about their lives (but not about the problems in your marriage), occasional lunches together one to two times a week, then a "See ya tomorrow."

There is no excuse for texting this woman, hanging out with this woman in contexts outside of work, her hinting to him about her intimate photos, him inviting her to functions related to YOUR family without asking YOU.

I could see if this were his first mistake, but he's doing it again. You had a discussion with him and he's still trying to invite her to places (like your 4th of July event) or to weddings. Enough's enough, the guy isn't going to get the hint. Go your own way. You would be a lot healthier and happier for it, I think.
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Old 16th August 2011, 12:55 PM   #41
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So everything was going awesome, no arguments, his coworker hasn't come up and so on.

This past Saturday our families threw a joint birthday party for us. We had both been drinking wine and were both fairly drunk. He tells me that on Friday near the time he was getting off work, a different female coworker approached him and asked him if he wanted to go salsa dancing at a latin club after work. He told me his response to her was "No, sorry, I have to go home and be a good husband and father" and that several people in the office were nearby and cackled at his response to her. He said she seemed embarrassed and upset and walked off without saying anything to his response.

At first I was irritated and thought what kind of woman asks a married man to go dancing? But as I thought more and more, I wondered what kind of messages is he sending to this woman to think that he would go?

I ended up telling him last night that I felt he provoked this. He went to lunch with her when he had first began this job, although according to him he stopped going to lunch with her soon after because she expected him to pay and he felt she was using him.

I brought up that this is the issue with going to lunches, and getting to friendly with female coworkers. That being "friendly" can easily be interpreted as flirting and going out one to one with a person sends a similar message.

He is upset with me, and isn't responding to my text message I sent this morning. He said before he left for work that he can't help it if he is friendly, and that he'll try to "not act like a slut" at work today at work.

I feel like we've just taken a giant step backwards, and I am so tired of feeling insecure, and threatened by him going to work. I get knots in my stomach sometimes just thinking of him being there. Especially now that it is two women.
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Old 16th August 2011, 1:33 PM   #42
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jennifer

i can totally understand your concern. My husband had an emotional affair ( that turned into a physical affair) with a woman he works with, and it was horrible! it started out ( on his part) innocently enough, but it didn't take to long for it to become something else entirely. When I finally spoke to him about it and told him it bothered me that he spent so much time online with her, he tried to turn it around and make me feel guilty for not trusting him. He tried to make me doubt my own "gut feelings", and, it turned out they were right all along.



I also want to say that i know how hard it can be to raise a kid who places on the autism spectrum ( two of my kids do as well-my oldest has aspbergers and my youngest is high functioning autistic). It sounds like you are going through a tough time right now, so please make sure to try and find a bit of time each day to look after yourself... you kids need you to!
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Old 16th August 2011, 8:40 PM   #43
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So everything was going awesome, no arguments, his coworker hasn't come up and so on.

This past Saturday our families threw a joint birthday party for us. We had both been drinking wine and were both fairly drunk. He tells me that on Friday near the time he was getting off work, a different female coworker approached him and asked him if he wanted to go salsa dancing at a latin club after work. He told me his response to her was "No, sorry, I have to go home and be a good husband and father" and that several people in the office were nearby and cackled at his response to her. He said she seemed embarrassed and upset and walked off without saying anything to his response.

At first I was irritated and thought what kind of woman asks a married man to go dancing? But as I thought more and more, I wondered what kind of messages is he sending to this woman to think that he would go?

I ended up telling him last night that I felt he provoked this. He went to lunch with her when he had first began this job, although according to him he stopped going to lunch with her soon after because she expected him to pay and he felt she was using him.

I brought up that this is the issue with going to lunches, and getting to friendly with female coworkers. That being "friendly" can easily be interpreted as flirting and going out one to one with a person sends a similar message.

He is upset with me, and isn't responding to my text message I sent this morning. He said before he left for work that he can't help it if he is friendly, and that he'll try to "not act like a slut" at work today at work.

I feel like we've just taken a giant step backwards, and I am so tired of feeling insecure, and threatened by him going to work. I get knots in my stomach sometimes just thinking of him being there. Especially now that it is two women.
Dancing at a club after work with a married co-worker? That sounds iffy to me. Even when I was single, I wouldn't suggest that to a married co-worker who was a friend of mine. Salsa dancing is sexy. It's not exactly the after hours stuff you do with co-workers. We've had drinks once in great while where we vent about work, maybe the occasional karaoke, but no dancing, and even the karaoke stuff was rare. Certainly not a monthly event by any means. His response to her was good even if it embarassed her.

Not that it's any excuse, but it looks to me like he's using the stress from having a special needs child to get some ego stroking for himself. Could he be depressed?

Can't he find/make male friends at work or outside of work? Is there some hobby, sport/recreational activity he could join? Seems like all his friendly attentions are given to female co-workers.
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Old 18th August 2011, 7:04 PM   #44
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feeling your pain

this emotional cheating was all new to me, but i got a good taste of it last year when my husbands boss hired a new secretary. young, single and lives around the block from us. her name kept coming us, and he would act like a nervous school boy when he would talk about her. they got closer and closer and then came the phone calls and the favors he had to do for her and her mother and the afterwork activiites. i finally followed the paper trail and looked up his phone records and texting. he was pretty shocked when i showed him the copies of the calls and texting records. he said, i can explain everyone of them. i just asked him, who is she to you? and he said, she is my best friend.. that seemed to hurt more than him saying i love her. I called his boss the next day and i asked him what thier work policy was on a supervisor having a interoffice relastionship with a co-worker was, and he said, there was no policy, that they were on the honor system . I called the girl up and asked her to give me her spin on what kind of relationship she was having with my husband and she started crying and said , oh no you have it all wrong. when she was questioned by her boss, she took a different tone, and wrote me a letter and said it was none of my business what her and my husband talk or text about, but explained anyway, that it was about all the gardening and yardwork he does for her. she failed to meantion what the texting was about when he was on his family vacation. anyway i filed for divorce and a week before we were to go to court, he had a change of heart, and said he still loved me. someone must of told him "its cheaper to keep her" anyway we have been back together since dec.2010. he's really trying, but he is such a good liar, its hard for me to trust him. as for the girl, i have to drive past her house everyday, and i still feel like i need a apology from her. she is just too smug when she see's me. he will be retiring in october, so once that gets behind us maybe i will feel more at ease. i feel he has made such a fool of me, i dont even want to go to his retirement party, its best that me and his best friend not be in the same room.
anyway, your not alone, i feel sorry for anyone that has to go through this, its such a waste of good energy. This is my first log. it felt good to get that out.

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If you want you can look at my past posting history and see how I handled it. Things have been so much better since I put a stop to this sort of behaviour.

I can see why you donít want to fight this. Itís exhausting, and you will feel bad (of course itís entirely innocent and theyíre just friends and he can have friends canít he?), and if youíve already been through it before you probably donít want to again.

But as long as heís still talking to her and seeing her as often as he is you will probably be driven crazy by suspicion and youíll have to be on edge all the time every time he sees her. Youíll wonder what theyíre doing and saying, and you may sneak around trying to find out what is going on. Thatís what I did for about four months. Itís not nice.

Iím a pretty direct person, though. If I thought his behaviour was unreasonable, I would say.

I said, ďIf she has a boyfriend why is she spending so much time with you.Ē
I said, ďI donít think the topics that you talk about are appropriate between friends.Ē
I said, ďYou dress up to go out with her, but not with me. Why?Ē
I said, ďYou get too close to her when you talk to her and you flirt with her and I donít like it.Ē

We had many arguments about this, four monthsí worth of arguments. Eventually I gave the ďher or meĒ speech and since then things have been great. Sometimes he gives me a guilt trip about not being her friend anymore, but **** her, and **** him.

Whatís funny is he would try to be sweet to me too. He would dress up and go out with her and come back and be all happy and nice and loving. That really made me feel mixed up Ė but I think it was a deliberate ploy on his part. Like, maybe if he is nice to me, I wonít be upset that he went out with someone else. Didnít work. Donít let this fool you, he knows what heís doing. Itís manipulative.

If I were you Iíd take him aside and say that you saw the pictures and they were sexy. You arenít comfortable with this and given past history you are disappointed that he would start another inappropriate friendship. Remind him about how it almost ended your marriage, and say that if this continues you can see the whole pattern replaying. Tell him you want him to be a co-worker and not a friend to her.

If he tells you (and he probably will) that he can have friends other than you, say that he can have any friend he likes as long as he doesnít flirt with them and they donít send him sexy pictures and that this inappropriate behaviour stops now.

If he says theyíre co-workers, he canít just stop seeing her, say fine. They can be co-workers as much as they like, and he should be polite to her as a co-worker. Everything that doesnít have to do with work stops now. No more flirting, no more texting, no more Facebook. Itís inappropriate and you wonít be disrespected any more.

I really think you should do something, and soon...trust me, I know about being reluctant to rock the boat, but after you make your position clear you will feel so much better.
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Old 18th August 2011, 7:16 PM   #45
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This guy is a smooth talker and smooth walker.
I wouldn't trust him.
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