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Business and Professional Relationships Networking and maintaining a positive environment in the work place is important! Surviving the 9-to-5 within.

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Old 26th May 2018, 4:52 PM   #16
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I'm sure there are better workplaces in your area. How about looking into MOOCs on a practical topic, like digital marketing, in your free time? You have a long career in service and that gives you an advantage for how customers think!
I don't think I have the right mind/ personality for marketing/ sales kind of stuff. I've really never been a good "salesman", nor have I ever felt like I was in tune with what customers want. Heck, in all the retail I've worked, corporate always expects that you try to up sell, and attach other products and services to a transaction as much as you can, and whatnot, but me, I never care about that stuff (I've never worked on commission, so that's never been a factor for me); I just want to get a customer in and out and be done with them, and move on.

I also don't have any interest in management, as I'm not a "leader", I'm not a decision maker, I'm not an authoritative kind of person. So there's not much room for upward movement for me in the retail/ service industry.

I'm not familiar with "MOOCs". What do those entail? How does one "market" those on a resume, and/ or to a potential employer?

My perception has always been that experience is a huge deciding factor in actually getting interviews/ job offers. An education will likely get your resume looked at in the first place, but once it comes to the interview, they're going to ask what you know, and what experience you have doing those things.

And that's always been one of the things that frustrates me with schooling, because for the four years I took actual college classes, it was all "Listen to a lecture, read pages x-y in the text book, answer questions 1-20/ write a paper on <topic>/ whatever". I didn't have a problem passing classes, but I didn't feel like I was ever absorbing any information and learning how to do anything. It was all just short term memory bursts for the sake of getting through and passing a given class. I much preferred the time I spent in a trade school, where they basically said "Here are the hardware and software you need to learn how to use, here's an overview of how to do it properly, now go do it". I've always been more inclined to "learn from doing", rather than learning through reading text or whatever.

Plus, like I said, too, I'm super hesitant to invest money and potentially put myself in debt for formal education again, because if it fails to pay off for me again, then I'm back to square one but with more debt/ less money to my name. But I know there's no free education (at least not anything you could reasonably put on a resume or use in a job interview), and I know that any educational pursuit is going to take years to complete, so it's like, even if I figured out something to pursue, how do I stop myself from being miserable and unhappy and angry for the years it takes me to pursue it?
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Old 27th May 2018, 6:42 PM   #17
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Hi,

Don't go to college. I wouldn't do that again either. MOOCs are massive online open courses that you can take for free. Some are from prestigious universities and if you complete them you can choose to pay a small fee to get a course certficate (last time I checked years ago it was 30 pounds or something). Well, they're not a degree but they can show your interest in a topic if you want to change careers and they're better than nothing. Alternatively, they may help test out different fields without paying anything.
You can search for courses here if you're interested https://www.mooc-list.com/

No matter how stuck you feel now, that won't be forever. And of course you have options, you're not dead or a slave! You may be miserable, but I don't know many people who have been miserable for decades in a row. At some point things change.

Of course you have value and deserve to be respected. But not all people will respect you. They won't if you make it easy for them and if that disrespect gives them a free ride. Don't be so certain that you're a doormat. We all change, but first we need to change our circumstances and reactions a bit.
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Old 27th May 2018, 6:47 PM   #18
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here they have some free courses too https://www.udemy.com/
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Old 27th May 2018, 8:27 PM   #19
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Hi,

Don't go to college. I wouldn't do that again either. MOOCs are massive online open courses that you can take for free. Some are from prestigious universities and if you complete them you can choose to pay a small fee to get a course certficate (last time I checked years ago it was 30 pounds or something). Well, they're not a degree but they can show your interest in a topic if you want to change careers and they're better than nothing. Alternatively, they may help test out different fields without paying anything.
You can search for courses here if you're interested https://www.mooc-list.com/
I'll take a look. I don't know if it makes any difference, but I'm in the US, for what it's worth, so I don't know if there's a cultural difference in what employers look for.

As far as college and schooling, yeah, I dunno. It feels like something of a catch-22. I'm under the impression that it's nigh impossible to do anything worth anything without a college degree. Heck, most job postings I see that aren't the bottom of the barrel kind of thing I'm already in say that they require a four year degree. But aside from having no idea what I'd even go to school for, I still come back to the same two issues:

A) I can't find the patience in me to spend another 2-4+ years going to school while stewing in my misery and bitterness. And I understand patience is necessary and nothing is given, and I'm not trying to argue otherwise. But I already did the school thing, I'm already halfway through my life. I just can't find it in me to push through that, especially if (read: when) it doesn't pay off again.

B) The financial investment. I walked away relatively lucky the first time, didn't have outstanding debt, but still took a big hit to my bank account that I feel the effects of even today.

So, I dunno. I don't know what the right answer is for me.

Quote:
No matter how stuck you feel now, that won't be forever. And of course you have options, you're not dead or a slave! You may be miserable, but I don't know many people who have been miserable for decades in a row. At some point things change.
Not to sound dismissive, but someone somewhere has told me this every step of the way, and I just can't find any hope in that. I heard that when I was 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, etc. There's never a light at the end of my tunnel. It doesn't exist. I feel like I'm just destined for perpetual mediocrity.

Quote:
Of course you have value and deserve to be respected. But not all people will respect you. They won't if you make it easy for them and if that disrespect gives them a free ride. Don't be so certain that you're a doormat. We all change, but first we need to change our circumstances and reactions a bit.
Yeah, I wish I had value, and deserved to be respected and cared about. But I know that I'm just a worthless peon. I have nothing of value. I'm a "nothing" person. And that makes me so angry and bitter. That's part of the intense anger and bitterness I find myself feeling 24/7, that I'm so... "nothing". I see "someone" in everyone I meet and encounter throughout my life, but I look at myself in the mirror, and I see "nothing". "No one". I hate it. I hate it so much. Yet, I can't figure out how to be "someone". I never can. And that just infuriates me.
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Old 28th May 2018, 3:52 AM   #20
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We are our actions and decisions so if you feel like no one maybe that means it s time to make some decisions. I was unemployed for years and wanted to die out of shame. Until one day I relocated to another country and thats when I started to get in touch with stronger parts of myself. You cant imagine with what contempt people treated me before that. You dont deserve to feel like a nobody. You have to take your life in your hands. Do something even if you feel unsure. Anything to prove to yourself you re in control of your life.
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Old 29th May 2018, 9:22 AM   #21
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As usual, you knock down every suggestion offered to you. You've probably at this point been given hundreds of options that you could pursue, but every single one isn't the "right" one for some reason or another.

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Originally Posted by Inflikted View Post
As far as college and schooling, yeah, I dunno. It feels like something of a catch-22. I'm under the impression that it's nigh impossible to do anything worth anything without a college degree.
No, this isn't true. You could pursue a trade. Other non-college options have been suggested to you in the past as well. You have options.

Quote:
A) I can't find the patience in me to spend another 2-4+ years going to school while stewing in my misery and bitterness. And I understand patience is necessary and nothing is given, and I'm not trying to argue otherwise. But I already did the school thing, I'm already halfway through my life. I just can't find it in me to push through that, especially if (read: when) it doesn't pay off again.
The reality is that you've been stewing about all of this for the past 6-7 years anyway, and you will continue to stew in it, regardless of whether or not you are in school or doing anything to advance your life. You are going to find yourself in the same place you are right now in another 2-4 years because you refuse to just make a decision and DO something. The reality is that most people in the world do not love or adore every aspect of their job. You seem to be looking for perfection before you make a decision, which you will never find, and thereby allows you to continue to make excuses.

Quote:
Not to sound dismissive, but someone somewhere has told me this every step of the way, and I just can't find any hope in that. I heard that when I was 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, etc. There's never a light at the end of my tunnel. It doesn't exist. I feel like I'm just destined for perpetual mediocrity.
There's no light because nothing has changed for you.

If you want change in your life, you have to make change. If you don't do that, then yes, you are still going to be right where you are.
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In the end one loves one's desire and not what is desired. -- Nietzsche
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Old 29th May 2018, 10:21 AM   #22
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I've never heard of a "coding bootcamp". What exactly does that entail?

Also, what actually is coding? What do you do? What's an average day of work entail? Back when I was in college bouncing around IT majors, I had tried programming for a bit, but beyond basic HTML, I couldn't wrap my head around it. Is it something like that?
I do coding in HTML, CSS and JavaScript myself. I went to a boot camp called Coding Dojo awhile back and also am self taught. A day of work for me is people free and I get my work posted on this online board called JIRA.

There is a 10 minute SCRUM meeting in the morning but I don't have to interact with anyone, just say what I did yesterday and today. I listen to music or audio books all day while I work.

The bad thing is I sit all day so it could be unhealthy. I have gained weight so need to get back to exercising and to stop eating carbs.

You sound really intelligent so I'm sure you could learn to code quickly. You seem like you don't like people so I thought it would be a good job for you.
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Old 29th May 2018, 12:34 PM   #23
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You sound really intelligent so I'm sure you could learn to code quickly. You seem like you don't like people so I thought it would be a good job for you.
I've been looking into it since you first brought it up. Programming was one of the many IT majors I bounced through during my original stint in college, and I had trouble wrapping around my head around stuff beyond the basics.

But in the interest of trying to find something practical, I've been trying to push myself to learn more about it. I've started trying to do self-teaching via free online tutorials and whatnot. I actually spent most of my free time before work yesterday going through some basic lessons on JavaScript. I also downloaded a neat little app on my phone called Grasshopper that teaches basics.

What bugs me is that I'm starting to move past "basics", and I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around what comes after that. I'm trying real hard to stay focused and learn, and I'm feeling frustrated with myself for not being able to "keep up" better.

Anyway, if I can "self-teach" myself enough to get an idea of whether this is something I can truly "get", then I could potentially talk myself into pursuing a proper education. But I feel like I need to drum up the interest first, as I don't want to dive into something and then realize "I can't do this" after I've started.

I dunno. We'll see what happens. I'm trying hard, I really am. I'm just not sure I can wrap my head around it and keep up with it.

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You seem to be looking for perfection before you make a decision, which you will never find, and thereby allows you to continue to make excuses.
I disagree. I'm not expecting or looking for "perfection". I'm not holding out for some imaginary "dream job". I just want something that I feel like I could reasonably do (or learn to do). And unfortunately, I just can't come up with anything that I could reasonably do/ learn to do. As I said above, I'm trying really hard to force myself into this computer programming thing, and I'd love for it to work out for me, but I just don't know.

It just feels like I'm painfully mediocre at everything. I don't expect to end up with some amazing dream job that I'm absolutely 100% in love with, but I want to be able to have a career where I can go into work thinking "I know what I'm doing, I can do this, I can handle whatever comes with this job". I think that's reasonable to want. Am I wrong?

And I just can't really find anything that I feel I could get to that point with. Which, as I'd hope you can imagine, is extremely frustrating on a personal level. I HATE that I'm just... mediocre. It drives me crazy. I want to BE "something". And I can't seem to make something of myself.
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Old 29th May 2018, 1:42 PM   #24
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I feel mediocre too. I'd like to start my own business but failed the last time I tried. If you can't learn coding then try UI/UX Design, which I also do.

There are plenty of tutorials out there. The main program to learn is Sketch, which has a free trial and then cost $99 to purchase. You can follow tutorials on udemy.com or on You Tube for free.
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Old 29th May 2018, 2:22 PM   #25
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I feel mediocre too. I'd like to start my own business but failed the last time I tried. If you can't learn coding then try UI/UX Design, which I also do.

There are plenty of tutorials out there. The main program to learn is Sketch, which has a free trial and then cost $99 to purchase. You can follow tutorials on udemy.com or on You Tube for free.
I'll keep that in mind and look into that.

As far as the actual work goes, I'm just curious, what do you actually spend most of the time working on, as a programmer? I'm more just trying to get a sense of what a programmer actually does on a day-to-day basis. Like, in my research, I've seen freelance programmers talk about how they'll take on some project for a client, then once they finish that, they look for another client with a project, etc. But if you just work for a single company as a programmer, what are you actually doing all day?
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Old 30th May 2018, 10:04 AM   #26
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I'll keep that in mind and look into that.

As far as the actual work goes, I'm just curious, what do you actually spend most of the time working on, as a programmer? I'm more just trying to get a sense of what a programmer actually does on a day-to-day basis. Like, in my research, I've seen freelance programmers talk about how they'll take on some project for a client, then once they finish that, they look for another client with a project, etc. But if you just work for a single company as a programmer, what are you actually doing all day?
I been doing a website the past year and a half. I add more pages to it as needed. Yes, that is how it usually goes with projects for different clients. I been contracting the past 2 years.

If you work for a company, which I have, you do different projects for them. This could be a user interface, website, or other application. I use HTML and CSS to build the front end, then use JavaScript to make it interactive.

I'm a front end developer/designer so don't do anything with the back end. Back end languages are C# .NET, ASP.NET, Python, C++, etc.

Now days, I don't have to look for work. I get called by recruiters 10+ a day for different contracting gigs or full time work. I can pick and choose which I want to pursue. There is huge demand for front end development in HTML, CSS, JavaScript and JavaScript frameworks like React and Angular. If you know React and Angular, which I do, then recruiters blow up your phone.

Last edited by newlywedder; 30th May 2018 at 10:06 AM..
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