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Spirituality & Religious Beliefs Contemplate your place and purpose in the universe.

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Old 8th November 2017, 12:21 AM   #286
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I'm currently reading through Daniel and John, and I'm always surprised at how different things look when you read and entire book from start to finish. Instead of picking a parable from the NT or a story from the OT, reading a book from start to finish offers an entirely different perspective. Some of the stuff is just downright weird. John is a weird gospel as it is, but reading it from start to finish has been even weirder. A lot of this stuff is more palatable when you pick and choose a certain story of verse, which is obviously why people tend to do so.

I read Exodus last summer, and, now, reading Joshua, I'm more and more aware of the fact that the Israelites were not exactly monotheistic. It looks more like they believed in many gods and thought Yahweh was the best god.
Some of it is the idea of various types of literature. Most scholars believe John was written to supplement the synoptic gospels. John also appears to have been written so that various stories can be shared among early believers in isolation. One thing about the first century church is most Christians were poor, paper (papyri) was hard to come by, and they were under persecution. Much like us today, they may have had access to one or two passages from John to study from and use in their services. The earliest manuscript we have is actually a piece of papyri from the gospel of John (P52). After you read John, I recommend reading the letter of Polycarp. Polycarp was the disciple of John. The story of his martyrdom is crazy. It's almost like the Gospel of John is like the Tulmed...provides information to expand on baseline information provided in the Torah lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp

You identified an important feature of the OT. The temptation to revert to polytheism and to be like the other nations. One of the central themes of the the Torah is that the Israelites constantly broke the first commandment, mingled with the other nations, and adopted their downfalls (in one of the the most extreme examples, the worship of Baal and child sacrifice), and yet God redeemed them. You can also trace the genealogy of Christ in Joshua. Jesus was related to Rahab the harlot.
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Old 11th November 2017, 2:52 AM   #287
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I recently heard someone describe his faith as half of his brain is atheist, and half of his brain believes in God. I feel like that describes me pretty well. There is a part of my brain that says all of this religions business is complete nonsense and another part that thinks this world is just too weird to have come into existence by accident and with no clear purpose.
Are you by chance a Gemini?

In a way, this is actually a blessing (though you might interpret it as a type of internal strife).

You have the ability to see life from two totally opposite lenses. In your case, its not just abstract, you can actually experience it. To me, this gives you a great advantage in your profession as you are able to empathize with people in different mental spaces. My guess is you are able to do this in other ways beyond this topic...it's just with this particular topic you may have not yet found a balance between the two (yet ).

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Old 12th November 2017, 5:23 PM   #288
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Are you by chance a Gemini?

In a way, this is actually a blessing (though you might interpret it as a type of internal strife).

You have the ability to see life from two totally opposite lenses. In your case, its not just abstract, you can actually experience it. To me, this gives you a great advantage in your profession as you are able to empathize with people in different mental spaces. My guess is you are able to do this in other ways beyond this topic...it's just with this particular topic you may have not yet found a balance between the two (yet ).
I'm actually a Sagittarius. The bolded is interesting; I've never thought of it that way before, but it definitely resonates with me. I'm trying to find a balance and stop fighting either side.
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Old 14th November 2017, 2:18 AM   #289
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I'm actually a Sagittarius. The bolded is interesting; I've never thought of it that way before, but it definitely resonates with me. I'm trying to find a balance and stop fighting either side.
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haha that's funny. I was kidding about horoscope, but I do think you have a lot of unique gifts! I also think you are on an honest spiritual quest, and no one can ask for more than that. I hope you find the answer you seek!!
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Old 14th November 2017, 3:18 PM   #290
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haha that's funny. I was kidding about horoscope, but I do think you have a lot of unique gifts! I also think you are on an honest spiritual quest, and no one can ask for more than that. I hope you find the answer you seek!!
Me too, but I'm coming around to the idea that it's more about making peace with what I don't know.

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Old 14th November 2017, 5:59 PM   #291
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BC, here's a link to an excellent bible-based, literal translation, non-denominational site https://gracethrufaith.com/. The doctrine includes OSAS - Once Saved, Always Saved. All that is needed to be saved is to believe that Jesus died for our sins.

The site has an excellent question and answer section, 800 pages of questions and answers and the pastor who runs it will personally answer your own questions as well. He explains things very well and simply.

I think if you really take a deep dive into reading and understanding the Bible, your thirst for knowledge of it will increase.

If you've been down that road already, you'll just need to at least continue to be open-minded, open-hearted and patient and see if you feel called at some point. You are on the right path, at least, by thinking and questioning and exploring, etc. I think God will put what you need on your heart and things will become clear for you in due time. Wanting to believe is a good first step.
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Old 16th November 2017, 6:10 AM   #292
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Me too, but I'm coming around to the idea that it's more about making peace with what I don't know.
That's definitely part of it for me! I pray a lot for clarity and discernment and guidance. I don't always get the understanding part (although the guidance always seems to come through). I still struggle with the frustration that comes from being confused and not understanding. But it helps when I look at it as an opportunity to develop my faith - kinda like building muscle, the more you work it the better the results. I just hand it all over to God and let Him be in the driver's seat, and trust that He'll work it out for our good and His glory: "Dear Lord, help me get through this day. Guide my steps. Please don't leave me." Then I just head into the fray and do the best I can. It always ends up being not NEARLY as bad as I thought it would be. And I learned a little something from it.
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Old 24th November 2017, 6:20 PM   #293
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<edited>
- “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day”
- "So Jesus added, 'Because of this I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has allowed him to come'
- “Everyone whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away”
- "You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit — fruit that will remain"
- "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me."
The challenge comes when we put the human personality Jesus in place of the Universal Christ Mind which Jesus demonstrated. More often than not, when Jesus used the
first person pronouns 'I' and 'me' he was not referring to his human personality but to that level of spiritual attainment that he had reached, called 'Christ Consciousness' (or, as it was called to the Philipians, 'the mind which was also in Christ Jesus.')

Jesus doesn't say anywhere that he is the only one who had this Christ Mind or who can ever attain it - that is the Sanhedrin and Romans and subsequent Roman Christian-Catholic Church, from which derives all then-subsequent Christian or Christ-based religions, because they did not want the masses to know their own individual Christ Mind (for then we would no longer need or submit or tithe to the priests/synagogue/church).

In fact, Jesus specifically said, "Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these...." [Berean Study Bible.] Again, meaning those who believe in the Universal Christ; not in some human guy named Jesus (for Jesus was not yet ascended at that time, although he had already attained a very high degree of his personal Christhood.)

Christians think that they do not have to do anything to enter permanently into Heaven (or 'to be saved' or 'into Nirvana' - as you say, it's all the same thing). In fact, the New Testament specifically says, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus," which means for each of us to come into our own individual recognition of our oneness with God. It is the Christ Mind which says, "I and my God are one." So, to think otherwise is to buy into another falsehood from the Romans; a misrepresentation and misinterpretation of Jesus' true teachings -- much and the meat of which was removed from the New Testament at the 325AD Council of Nicea and subsequent such Councils.
So Christians do need to go digging deeper, not because Jesus' teachings are wrong but because greedy, selfish, unascended human Beings (the Sanhedrin, Romans and subsequent) have either kept his true teachings from us or have adulterated them.

If we only use the Old and New Testaments, then that is when it becomes so difficult to make sense of some of our personal experiences and/or what is manifest
and going on, on our planet and happening to others. It makes it difficult if not impossible to know a loving and benevolent God whose Will and Laws are actually
not meant to make us hurt and suffer.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:31 AM   #294
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The challenge comes when we put the human personality Jesus in place of the Universal Christ Mind which Jesus demonstrated. More often than not, when Jesus used the
first person pronouns 'I' and 'me' he was not referring to his human personality but to that level of spiritual attainment that he had reached, called 'Christ Consciousness' (or, as it was called to the Philipians, 'the mind which was also in Christ Jesus.')
Yes I agree - but even his own disciples didn't seem to gather this so I don't tend to blame the church for the way the teaching ended up.

eg: John 14:9 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, carrying out His work"

As the church grew over time the new teachers likely did their best but simply didn't understand - and more importantly - didn't experience the teaching directly. They weren't touched by the holy spirit so didn't really understand the true meaning of what happens when it "dwells" in your heart and how to convey that in the teaching. How you literally transform and are connected with god and take on "his pattern of behaviours". In-spite of this though I do also believe that the person\soul that was the man Jesus also wasn't an ordinary man. He was a master sent for a specific purpose - which was to create a way back for sinners


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If we only use the Old and New Testaments, then that is when it becomes so difficult to make sense of some of our personal experiences and/or what is manifest and going on, on our planet and happening to others. It makes it difficult if not impossible to know a loving and benevolent God whose Will and Laws are actually not meant to make us hurt and suffer.
For me after I had an awakening the new testament came alive with truth. There is so much wisdom in the teachings of Jesus. But I agree in that the new testament essentially provides the law and the way we should live our lives. The problem is for most people including myself "the flesh is weak". Its one thing to know the truth - its another to live it. Its a daily struggle to be a good person and rise above our natural impulses to live a pure life. So even though the law is correct we need more. Providing additional methods wasn't the role Jesus came to fulfill - other teachers came to provide those.

For me this is where the Yogic schools of knowledge come in. They are more about methods of altering and improving your own nature. Yoga, Meditation, Mantras chanting have had a massively powerful effect on me and the way I act. After my awakening I went off the rails a bit and had some very negative experiences. The Yoga schools have put me back on the path and completely rekindled the spirit.

So I combine the two elements together. Striving to follow the law and example outlined in the New Testament but simultaneously leveraging the tools of the Yoga Sutra to refine and improve my being so I'm able to do this more easily.

I can't believe the effect Mantra chanting has had on my spiritual progress. Very old practice which has been dismissed by most today as something weird people did in the past. I tell you it purifies and awakens your divine nature like nothing else. Within Yoga there is an entire school dedicated to the effects of sound on the human body Called Nada Yoga. The sounds they found to have positive spiritual effects when recited were classified as divine names. This was an energetic effect. I've spent the last 4 months chanting Vedic Mantras for 30 mins every morning and 30 mins every evening and the effects are profound. It took about 3 months before I started to see the results but now when I chant I'm just totally engulfed in love. It has made being a good person and helping others not something I want to do - but something I simply can't help. And thats not me bragging - that's all the mantra's.

I see a lot of people on this board saying - I want to know if God is real. My question is what are you doing to find out ? Seek! Dedicate yourself to a Sadhana practice. Sadhana meaning disciplined daily spiritual practice. If you really want to see god - you have to uncover him within yourself. You will not find him "outside" of yourself.

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Old 27th November 2017, 3:53 PM   #295
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In-spite of this though I do also believe that the person\soul that was the man Jesus also wasn't an ordinary man. He was a master sent for a specific purpose - which was to create a way back for sinners
I don't identify as a sinner but as a Spiritual-Divine Being. . Notwithstanding that I have since then taken on various aspects of the fallen and lesser-lower consciousness, nevertheless I was created pure by God and thus am not inherently a 'sinner'.

Yes, that was one of the goals of Jesus' Mission, but he did not come into that embodiment already an Ascended Master (just as Gautama Bhudda did not). He attained his Christ/Ascended Consciousness during that lifetime (but before his arrest). Part of it was precisely so that we could see/learn that this is indeed possible for each person while still on Earth; we can earn our Christhood while we are here, if we will but strive and make the effort.

But people are afraid to claim their Divine Status and to start asking, 'Hey! How can I do what Jesus did??? He promised that I'd be able to, and I've been 'believing on Him' for hundreds of lifetimes already and I'm nowhere closer to being able to heal the sick or multiply the fishes!!! What do I not know that I need to know???'
We have to ask the question. Again, it was Jesus himself who said, "I tell you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door [of true spiritual knowledge] will be opened to you."
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Yoga, Meditation, Mantras chanting have had a massively powerful effect on me and the way I act. After my awakening I went off the rails a bit and had some very negative experiences. The Yoga schools have put me back on the path and completely rekindled the spirit.
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I can't believe the effect Mantra chanting has had on my spiritual progress. ... it purifies and awakens your divine nature like nothing else.
I've also had some very negative metaphysical experiences which, I came to realize, was only for lack of having been taught anything about the importance of invoking Spiritual Protection which, of course, is part of the 'Ritual of Taking Refuge' in the Bhuddist tradition.

I do use Mantras but also some of the other spiritual tools that have more recently been introduced into the West through such movements as Summit Lighthouse and Kim Michaels' TranscendenceToolbox.com.
Even so, though, I do agree that the Eastern Sacred Texts contain valuable and practical spiritual tools; e.g., The Six Yogas of Naropa. You probably already know that Jesus studied in the East before returning to his homeland to fulfill his Mission. They removed this from the 'official' records so that, first, it would seem that no work is required by individuals on Earth and, second, to set-up Jesus as something that we cannot hope to duplicate. But, of course this is idolatry of Jesus because he himself said, "I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these," - the deeper/hidden/esoteric meaning being 'whoever works and attains Christ Consciousness for themselves will also have dominion over Matter, as I am demonstrating'.
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I see a lot of people on this board saying - I want to know if God is real. My question is what are you doing to find out ? Seek! Dedicate yourself to a Sadhana practice. Sadhana meaning disciplined daily spiritual practice. If you really want to see god - you have to uncover him within yourself. You will not find him "outside" of yourself.
That is indeed Jesus' main outer teaching: the kingdom of heaven is within. The problem is that Christians have been lulled to sleep by the false message that the human personality Jesus has done all the work for them by dying on the cross. This of course goes against what Jesus himself said: "Take the beam out of your own eye" - which refers to the purifying that you mention. We personally have to do the work of clearing our psychology of fallen and lesser-lower ideas, nature and habits, and of purifying and transmuting our own negative Karma ('sins') and entire consciousness and Energy field. This cannot be done for us by anybody else.

Like you, I also combine practices from various traditions. I prefer the Bhuddist 'Ritual of Confession' but, to transmute Energies, I like using what are called 'Decrees to the Violet Flame' or 'Invocations to the Sacred Rays', etc. I get the same 'spiritual high' from giving them as I think you do through reciting Mantras. (Actually, it's probably the exact same practice, now that I think about it; or at least brings about the exact same spiritual effect/result, at both physical and metaphysical levels.)

Justanaverageguy, I very much appreciate your contributions to this board. When you start webcasting your spiritual classes/seminars, count me in! . (Yes...of course you are already ready to take that next step!)
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Old 28th November 2017, 4:13 AM   #296
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I don't identify as a sinner but as a Spiritual-Divine Being. . Notwithstanding that I have since then taken on various aspects of the fallen and lesser-lower consciousness, nevertheless I was created pure by God and thus am not inherently a 'sinner'.

Yes, that was one of the goals of Jesus' Mission, but he did not come into that embodiment already an Ascended Master (just as Gautama Bhudda did not). He attained his Christ/Ascended Consciousness during that lifetime (but before his arrest). Part of it was precisely so that we could see/learn that this is indeed possible for each person while still on Earth; we can earn our Christhood while we are here, if we will but strive and make the effort.
Sure and its wonderful that you do I also don't subscribe to the old testament idea that we are all inherently terrible sinners and bad either. But people (all of us) do unfortunately sin at some level. Some in their lives do really awful things - and there are consequences for those actions. Karma says what we put out comes back to us energetically. Thus the story of Jesus and his life is meant to serve as a "parable". This is how he tought so clearly the story of his life is intended the same way. To have a deeper meaning still relevant today.

As for whether he came already as a "master" or developed that during his time on earth - I don't really see it as important. I personally tend to view him as the "big boss" metaphorically represented by the "sun". The one who is in charge of the human realm and provides the energy for us to exist (man cannot live on bread alone) - but I don't really have strong feelings or consider it to be overly important.

What I see as important was the meaning behind the story of his life - and I think my view is different to yours. That his\gods spirit is able to "relieve the consequences" of sin. He sacrifices his own energy (blood) to "wash us clean" and essentially clear our Karmic debt. This is specifically how I had my awakening - dealing with the Karmic load of my own bad and indeed very sinful decisions earlier in my life which came back to me ending in a horrible divorce. Then in the mist of my worst suffering - bam a born again experience - literally touched by the holy spirit - and the health issues and painful emotional experiences I was struggling with were simply wiped clean. Gone and replaced with a loving bliss. This is what you call Grace. I did not have my experience of god through my own righteous action - but rather through the grace of god who took pitty and released me of the consequences of my own actions. This is what is meant in Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.". It doesn't mean you don't need to do good works - which is an absurd concept. It means those who had this experience of the holy spirit were saved and redeemed by grace - not at all by their own actions.

Thus the story of Jesus is very personal and kind of a big deal for me. The gospel is intended as a parable for how he\God can work in peoples lives now - today. For sinners who have gone off the path and through their own wrong actions would otherwise be lost under the weight of their own karma. He is able to remove the burden and offer a second chance. As he said himself: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

This to me is what Jesus represents - the path back to life for sinners which is available still today. Jesus comes alive in the hearts of men providing forgiveness, rejuvenation and an opportunity to make a mends. I feel in his Physical life he came to represent that set purpose - and he fulfilled it - but his role wasn't to provide all the tools and practices to help raise up those walking the righteous path other then to live as an example. Others came and provided tools - when we are trying to walk the righteous path we are wise to also use those tools.


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But people are afraid to claim their Divine Status and to start asking, 'Hey! How can I do what Jesus did??? He promised that I'd be able to, and I've been 'believing on Him' for hundreds of lifetimes already and I'm nowhere closer to being able to heal the sick or multiply the fishes!!! What do I not know that I need to know???'
We have to ask the question. Again, it was Jesus himself who said, "I tell you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door [of true spiritual knowledge] will be opened to you."
I've also had some very negative metaphysical experiences which, I came to realize, was only for lack of having been taught anything about the importance of invoking Spiritual Protection which, of course, is part of the 'Ritual of Taking Refuge' in the Bhuddist tradition.

I do use Mantras but also some of the other spiritual tools that have more recently been introduced into the West through such movements as Summit Lighthouse and Kim Michaels' TranscendenceToolbox.com.
Even so, though, I do agree that the Eastern Sacred Texts contain valuable and practical spiritual tools; e.g., The Six Yogas of Naropa. You probably already know that Jesus studied in the East before returning to his homeland to fulfill his Mission. They removed this from the 'official' records so that, first, it would seem that no work is required by individuals on Earth and, second, to set-up Jesus as something that we cannot hope to duplicate. But, of course this is idolatry of Jesus because he himself said, "I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these," - the deeper/hidden/esoteric meaning being 'whoever works and attains Christ Consciousness for themselves will also have dominion over Matter, as I am demonstrating'.
That is indeed Jesus' main outer teaching: the kingdom of heaven is within. The problem is that Christians have been lulled to sleep by the false message that the human personality Jesus has done all the work for them by dying on the cross. This of course goes against what Jesus himself said: "Take the beam out of your own eye" - which refers to the purifying that you mention. We personally have to do the work of clearing our psychology of fallen and lesser-lower ideas, nature and habits, and of purifying and transmuting our own negative Karma ('sins') and entire consciousness and Energy field. This cannot be done for us by anybody else.

Like you, I also combine practices from various traditions. I prefer the Bhuddist 'Ritual of Confession' but, to transmute Energies, I like using what are called 'Decrees to the Violet Flame' or 'Invocations to the Sacred Rays', etc. I get the same 'spiritual high' from giving them as I think you do through reciting Mantras. (Actually, it's probably the exact same practice, now that I think about it; or at least brings about the exact same spiritual effect/result, at both physical and metaphysical levels.)

Justanaverageguy, I very much appreciate your contributions to this board. When you start webcasting your spiritual classes/seminars, count me in! . (Yes...of course you are already ready to take that next step!)
I'm not sure people are afraid to claim their divine status - I think they don't know where to start. They are so busy with life and dealing with their own - sometimes not healthy thinking patterns - that trying to envisage themselves as a divine being isn't even on their radar. They are just trying to get by and survive. Also most have never even had a sniff of what the "higher energies" taste like. They think the way they live their life and the way they experience their life is all there is. You don't go looking for diamonds when you have never seen a diamond before. Thus many need to have a spiritual experience first before it kick starts the seeking to hold onto these higher states of consciousness. I personally would never have gone down the path I am now if it wasn't for the experience I had. "I believe because I have seen - blessed are those who believe even though they have not seen"

Also regarding new age practices - I have mixed feelings on these. I'm certain there are some really good quality teachings and practices amongst them. Ekhart tolle for example - yours may well be in this category. But there are also some that aren't so high quality \ pure and I've seen people run afoul of these. To avoid issues my personal method and preference has been to go to older practices and traditions that have lasted. Generally speaking those practices that have passed the test of time are those that definitely work and are beneficial. This is why they survived. Time has kind of done the vetting work for you to weed out the false teachings that lead to negative places or simply didn't work. A linage of practitioners which maintains a practice over time is only created when something works because people get the benefit from it - then seeing the benefit they dedicate themselves to maintaining it and passing it on to others so they can also benefit.

Also thanks for the encouragement on the teaching - but I don't think I'm anywhere near that level yet. :P I also really enjoy the conversations with you on this board - seems we are both in similar stages of seeking At the moment I just try to influence where I can in a positive direction those who are around me and learn from those who are further on the path. Generally speaking my process since awakening is pretty simple. I've tried to dedicate myself to the 3 yogic ideals of:

Satsang - Which means being with true people. Creating a network of like minded people looking to walk the spiritual path and lead a moral life. We thus influence and advise each other in a positive direction. I have a completely non denomination spiritual group who meet regularly to discuss various topics and simply converse about challenges we are facing.

Sadhana - Means dedicated work and practice towards spiritual advancement. These are the tools I mentioned - things that can help to refine and improve who we are and transmute negative aspects and karma. It is through these practices that we strive to better ourselves. I got a bit of a helping hand through grace - but after that the work falls to us. I personally have gravitated towards the yogic teachings and now do meditation, yoga and chanting every day and have been steadily increasing the time I dedicate to this. The most important thing I have found when it comes to this is consistency of effort and patience. Try not to jump around from practice to practice instead stick to a small number you can do consistently. It takes time for the fruit of these to ripen.

Seva - Which simply means service. Helping people, becoming an active positive member of the community. Donating money, time and energy towards helping others in what ever way I can. The Satsang group I'm apart of is just getting rolling at the moment with setting up events such as Buying presents for refugees, we do regular blood drives, events for other charities and other events like that.

They aren't really anything out of the ordinary but its amazing what a difference consitently aligning yourself with these ideals makes to your well being.

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Old 28th November 2017, 6:26 PM   #297
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As for whether he came already as a "master" or developed that during his time on earth - I don't really see it as important. I personally tend to view him as the "big boss" metaphorically represented by the "sun". ... That his\gods spirit is able to "relieve the consequences" of sin. He sacrifices his own energy (blood) to "wash us clean" and essentially clear our Karmic debt.
For sure you and I have much in common - for most of my life I also have held Jesus as my primary spiritual role-model or Guru, if you will; and, like you, I also think that spiritual students need to go to the Eastern scriptures to make higher progress on the spiritual path.

But only in the last decade or so, I’ve come to realize that on account of my Roman Catholic upbringing, I’ve been carrying – and, sadly, was quite devoted to – many misguided and wrong beliefs and ideas about Jesus, his life and his Mission; and I’ve had to work most diligently to overcome them. Information like The Mystical Teachings of Jesus has been most helpful to set me straight on ‘the narrow way through the small gate’. .

The most important change that I had to make was to be able to make a clear distinction between Jesus, the man who walked the Earth, and the level of consciousness that he attained while walking the Earth. So, for me now, Christ or Christ Consciousness is the ‘big boss’ and the ‘Sun’ – because Christ Consciousness is Universal and not exclusive to the man, Jesus.

Jesus’ example is that each person walking the Earth also can, with proper spiritual effort and practices, attain Christ Consciousness; we each have our own Christ Potential that we must realize. It is this Universal Christ Consciousness, Light and Energy that we must invoke and use to ‘wash clean’ ourselves (through purifying practices). We could call it a Grace, but we still have to earn it through our own conscious efforts whether in this or prior lifetimes.
Quote:
Also regarding new age practices ... there are also some that aren't so high quality \ pure and I've seen people run afoul of these.
It’s so true that we need to use our own judgment no matter who we follow, and assure ourselves to the best of our ability that what we take on board contains a vibration of Truth. As far as ‘New Age’ or ‘Golden Age’ or ‘Aquarian Age’ works, I just see it as part of the continual, ever-transcending expression of the Living Word or Progressive Revelation; so, for me, it requires the same personal discernment as any of the other Sacred Texts and spiritual teachings (such as from Osho, Patanjali, Neale Donald Walsch, ACIM, etc.)

In fact, when I start to follow your webcasts, I’ll be following a New Age teacher who is sharing his inspired-personal revelations of spiritual matters, won’t I? . (Reference: a paragraph in your Post #107.)

I’ve also been trying to base my daily practice on the three pillars that you mention. As far as practices, I agree that we need to stick with it for a while before we can see whether it’s beneficial for us or not – but on the other side, not to get married to any single one. As we progress on the path, our practice necessarily needs to be elevated to reflect the changes in our levels of consciousness.

Again, thanks very much, Justanaverageguy.
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Old 29th November 2017, 4:12 AM   #298
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But only in the last decade or so, I’ve come to realize that on account of my Roman Catholic upbringing, I’ve been carrying – and, sadly, was quite devoted to – many misguided and wrong beliefs and ideas about Jesus, his life and his Mission; and I’ve had to work most diligently to overcome them. Information like The Mystical Teachings of Jesus has been most helpful to set me straight on ‘the narrow way through the small gate’. .

The most important change that I had to make was to be able to make a clear distinction between Jesus, the man who walked the Earth, and the level of consciousness that he attained while walking the Earth. So, for me now, Christ or Christ Consciousness is the ‘big boss’ and the ‘Sun’ – because Christ Consciousness is Universal and not exclusive to the man, Jesus.

Jesus’ example is that each person walking the Earth also can, with proper spiritual effort and practices, attain Christ Consciousness; we each have our own Christ Potential that we must realize. It is this Universal Christ Consciousness, Light and Energy that we must invoke and use to ‘wash clean’ ourselves (through purifying practices). We could call it a Grace, but we still have to earn it through our own conscious efforts whether in this or prior lifetimes.
Looks like an interesting site - will take a look through it when I get some free time this evening.

Regarding your view on Christ we share a lot of the same beliefs - I definitely believe we need to work to raise our consciousness - our level of being - with the ultimate aim to match his. I'm not so sure that's possible in this life - but that's the ultimate "goal". To refine ourselves - to clean the vessel so we can be filled with divine energy - holy spirit what ever you wish to call it. This is really what gave Jesus his power - he was a perfect conduit so that divine universal energy could simply flow through him. This is what Jesus was talking about with I am in the father and the father is in me. He was filled - because his being and intentions were pure. They aligned perfectly with that of god and so he literally became god. Kind of like tuning forks and wireless energy transfer - when 2 tuning forks frequency match the energy from one can be passed to the other. He was "in tune" with God - the universal divine energy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiHOqMOJTH4

I guess what I was saying is that I believe Jesus life itself was supposed to signify or provide a new way - that would make this "experience of god" available to people who were badly out of tune. It enabled the Saul on the road to Damascus type experiences - where someone way off the path could be transformed and brought back. So yes we should always aim for the high path without needing this intervention - but Jesus life itself was meant to symbolize this new avenue. Redemption or "raising sinners from the dead" so to speak. Thus much of the Christian church was built around this premise and the concept of sin and redemption. It didn't focus on how Jesus developed his Christ consciousness (other then selfless service and faith off course) - because providing these additional tools and methods wasn't his message. It wasn't the purpose of his life. Most of Jesus direct followers joined him from a direct personal spiritual transformation experience - his spirit changed them. Saul the persecutor of Christians - Matthew the tax collector etc etc. Saul\Paul by the way wrote 30% of the NT ..... so with his background and experience of Sinner to Saint you start to understand why it reads and preaches the message the way it does.

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Originally Posted by Ronni_W View Post
It’s so true that we need to use our own judgment no matter who we follow, and assure ourselves to the best of our ability that what we take on board contains a vibration of Truth. As far as ‘New Age’ or ‘Golden Age’ or ‘Aquarian Age’ works, I just see it as part of the continual, ever-transcending expression of the Living Word or Progressive Revelation; so, for me, it requires the same personal discernment as any of the other Sacred Texts and spiritual teachings (such as from Osho, Patanjali, Neale Donald Walsch, ACIM, etc.)

In fact, when I start to follow your webcasts, I’ll be following a New Age teacher who is sharing his inspired-personal revelations of spiritual matters, won’t I? . (Reference: a paragraph in your Post #107.)
Yes thats true - you are right I think some of them provide excellent supplements to provide deeper or additional insights. I guess what I have seen that concerns me is many of the newer teachings are very narrow - or focused on specific areas. So its not so much that they are not true - more that they only provide narrow insights. Something like law of attraction for example. It comes without any spiritual foundation - so if people come to this teaching without already having a strong spiritual foundation they can quickly use it to go wildly off the path. Right judgement and discernment are key as you say

Thanks again for your post - enjoy reading as always

Last edited by Justanaverageguy; 29th November 2017 at 8:01 AM..
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Old 29th November 2017, 8:52 AM   #299
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He was filled - because his being and intentions were pure. They aligned perfectly with that of god and so he literally became god. ... He was "in tune" with God - the universal divine energy
We do share a very similar spiritual perspective! I think the difference in how we express it (the words we use to explain the same thing) comes about on account of us having used different teachings and resources to arrive at similar observations.

Yes, by the end of his lifetime Jesus was fully attuned with his own Divine Presence or what is also called his ‘I AM Presence’. He fully knew himself as a Spiritual-Divine Being or, he knew himself as an individualization of God; which, each one of us is also an individualization of God. At this point, the only difference between any one of us and Jesus-on-Earth is that we have not yet arrived at the fullness of our own attunement with our own Christ Mind.

In his full Christhood, Jesus was indeed a perfect conduit for Divine Energy; Christ is the Light of the World. But, he wasn’t born in this perfection, as demonstrated, for example, by his angry outbursts at the money-changers and the fig tree. It’s that we manifest our unique-individual God Identity and thereby express God on Earth, is how I would put it rather than us literally becoming God. So, there is Jesus-the-Christ and, in his time, Justanaverageguy-the-Christ, and, in my time, Ronni-the-Christ. This is also part of what Jesus came here to help people understand: You and I – and all other people – are Christs-in-Potential. We’re still in the process of manifesting it, is all. Although the churches want us to, I would not call us ‘sinners’ just because we have not yet mastered this process, but... .

I agree with you but use different words: Jesus’ life was a literal example of the process for transformation that we must effect in order to ‘put on the Mind of Christ’; we need to trade-in our lesser-lower consciousness including through transmuting our negative Karma. In Christian doctrine, being in this state of consciousness and still having Karma to balance is called ‘being a sinner’ – and if you are a ‘sinner’ then, in order to be ‘saved’, you need some external power (that you can usually only access through the church: Grace, Spiritual Forgiveness, God, the love of Jesus Christ, etc., etc.); you can’t do it by yourself or outside of the church. But Jesus came to show and prove otherwise; it must be done from within, is what he repeatedly told us.

If we buy into all of that doctrine today, then that’s when it becomes difficult to actually ever get in tune or attuned with our own God-Who-Is-Within; our own source of Divine Light and Energy. Precisely because, as you say, the Christian churches do not offer any practical, true/valid spiritual practices.

So, Christians really do have to allow themselves to follow Jesus’ examples: He very often went off by himself to pray (meditate or ‘go within’) in order to maintain and strengthen his contact/attunement with God. He also was very much attuned to his own Energy field or aura, as demonstrated in Luke 8:44-46: “She came up behind Jesus and touched the fringe of His cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped. ‘Who touched Me?’ Jesus asked. But they all denied it. ‘Master,’ said Peter, ‘the people are crowding and pressing against You’. But Jesus declared, ‘Someone touched Me for I know that power [Divine Energy] has gone out from Me.”

In general, Christian churches do not talk about how to attune with and come into a personal relationship with God or one’s own Divine Presence; prayer is passive, devotional, supplicating, directed outward. Neither is there reference to the chakra system or Energy field. And ‘original sin’ is used to turn us all away from our own individual Divine-Spiritual Identity and into ‘human sinners’ who are inherently spiritually unworthy, and instead of providing a proper spiritual explanation of how we generate our own negative Karma over many reincarnations.

So, if they truly want to follow Jesus’ example, then Christians must go to the Eastern scriptures to learn the practices that he used and also must do what Jesus said:
"Go within!" The Bible also offers only a narrow insight.

It makes it very difficult to believe in God, which is the original dilemma posed by this thread. Or, perhaps, to believe in a loving, benevolent, friendly God.

My thanks to BC1980 for starting the thread, and to all contributors. .
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Old 29th November 2017, 10:31 AM   #300
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We do share a very similar spiritual perspective! I think the difference in how we express it (the words we use to explain the same thing) comes about on account of us having used different teachings and resources to arrive at similar observations.

I agree with you but use different words: Jesus’ life was a literal example of the process for transformation that we must effect in order to ‘put on the Mind of Christ’; we need to trade-in our lesser-lower consciousness including through transmuting our negative Karma. In Christian doctrine, being in this state of consciousness and still having Karma to balance is called ‘being a sinner’ – and if you are a ‘sinner’ then, in order to be ‘saved’, you need some external power (that you can usually only access through the church: Grace, Spiritual Forgiveness, God, the love of Jesus Christ, etc., etc.); you can’t do it by yourself or outside of the church. But Jesus came to show and prove otherwise; it must be done from within, is what he repeatedly told us.
Yes we share much of the same view and I really enjoy speaking with your because we both seem to reference the Christian and Eastern teachings together which I sometimes find difficult to come across. I think maybe we do still have one difference though ..... which I enjoy because I think it keeps the conversation interesting and allows us to bounce back and forth with our perspectives.

I totally agree with your comments that:
- We need to work on ourselves to refine ourselves (not sure anyone could argue with that).
- That jesus provided the example of the Christ mind \ way of being we all should ultimately aim for and try to emulate
- I also totally believe that like you said the doctrine of the church has put too much emphasis on essentially "relying on Jesus to do the work". The idea of believing Jesus sacrifice means all the work and the only hope of salvation is through him. It has thus not provided tools for people to help themselves. Kind of a lazy mans path to enlightenment.

But the one point where I think maybe we differ is the part I highlighted - and like you said its mostly around wording. As I quoted before Jesus said many many times he came for the sinner not the righteous. For the sick not the healthy. Yes he does act as an example for righteous but in my mind it wasn't the purpose of his life. You said:
"In Christian doctrine - if you are a ‘sinner’ then, in order to be ‘saved’, you need some external power (that you can usually only access through the church"

I would say the Christian teaching oversimplified what was intended. People can and should help themselves and have the ability to transmute negative karma themselves by doing good works and being a good person and following other practices taught in the east. But irrespective of that there are people who reach a point where they are beyond that. (This certainly isn't everyone but it is a significant number). They have accumulated a large enough "debt" of negative karma that there is no possible way they could hope to pay it off without outside help. And the consequences of "sin" are very real. That's maybe another thing I also feel some new age teachings are too "lovey dovey" with no balance - they wrongly "de-emphasise" this. Some have an idea that it will all work out in the end - you just have as many Karmic births as you need. Its all just learning. And sure Karma is a learning tool - but it simply isn't true that it always works out in the end. Hell is to me a metaphysical place and it occurs when someone has developed such a huge level of bad karma they are burried under it into a never ending cycle of pain and suffering where they essentially destroy themselves.

So for me this was a large part of the purpose of Jesus "mission" and the symbolism of his crucifixion - to provide a way for those who had no way. To get in between this cycle of negative karma and act as the payer of debts for those who would never be able to repay what they owed. Because forgiveness of debt is not "free" - it requires someone else to foot the bill. In this case God\Jesus offering their own spirit to transmute the negative energy and consequences. A metaphysical blood sacrifice so to speak.

The mistake I feel from the church was simply they took this to an extreme place as a "blanket" rule and applied it to everyone - even the "righteous" when Jesus explicitly said he didn't come for them. Basically regardless of how you have lived - you are a sinner and have no hope of helping yourself - good works won't save you - the only way is through outside help (which is still partially true if you understand your connection with god - but not the way they protrayed it). They skewed the message and the metaphor - but that doesn't mean there isn't a deep and important truth in the original message and what was provided - a chance for grace - through his sacrifice. In order to offer this spiritually it had to be done physically also.

Hope that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Ronni_W View Post
But, he wasn’t born in this perfection, as demonstrated, for example, by his angry outbursts at the money-changers and the fig tree.
Also regarding this a comment just to stimulate - I'm not really sure any of this indicates sin or imperfection. Reproving immoral action in one case - and if you understand the symbolism of the fig tree in the bible its in my opinion intended again as a Metaphor \ Parable in itself. When viewed in that context it has meaning and is intended as a warning. Having experienced some of "God's wrath" directly so to speak I think its naive to think that "he" doesn't judge or discipline in a forceful way. Forceful judgment is sometimes necessary and Fear of god is still wise advice in addition to love of. If for example you put the cursed fig next to the parable of the barren fig and the true vine - it starts to make complete sense. Bear good fruit or else so to speak. I provide a stay of execution for those who haven't born good fruit and chance for repentance ...... but not indefinitely. His grace fertilizes an otherwise barren tree in order that it might grow and bear good fruit - but there is still a limit to grace if it still does not produce a crop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabl...arren_fig_tree

Last edited by Justanaverageguy; 29th November 2017 at 12:45 PM..
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