Not trying harder.... am I wrong?

[Quilly]

I came to the realization a year ago that I was no longer in love with my husband and had been unhappy for several years because of it. I told my husband this under the assumption that he felt the same way... but he didn't. So I spent the last year trying to explain to him that I no longer had the same feelings for him... he spent the last year telling me I needed to work harder at it.

 

I moved out two months ago and my husband has yelled at me, guilted me, used my kids to guilt me, etc., etc.... but never once has he acknowledged an understanding of what it is I have told him all along, which is that I no longer love him in that way. He is constantly belittling me for being selfish, only considering my own happiness, and destroying him and our children's lives.... all because I haven't and won't try harder to make it work. Every time he tells me I need to try harder, I want to strangle the life out of him! You can't TRY HARDER to make yourself love someone... especially when that person has no respect for your feelings.

 

So, my question is... am I wrong? Is it possible to "try harder" at being in love with someone when you can barely stand talking to the person? Can you force yourself to be in love with someone just because it's what they want and it will keep your family together? Am I being selfish in wanting to be with someone that will respect and understand me, that will be the love of my life and my best friend? Or am I hoping for something that doesn't exist and should therefore just settle for what I already have? Should I be trying harder and if so, how?

[Merin]

I think sometimes people simply "Outgrown" one another...

 

I really don't believe you can make yourself be In Love with someone when you're not.. nor do I beleive that "Trying harder" to force feelings is going to be helpful.

 

If you really feel that the relationship has come to an end Quilly, then you would be doing your husband and injustice to stay there out of guilt... eventually it would catch up to you and play itself out in negative, destructive ways.

 

My two cents... Best wishes

[Devildog]

Hmm, tough question. Relationships change and the feelings of "love" that most people have early on in a relationship are more lust and excitement. After a few years of marriage the excitement isn't there so much and you usually don't lust over something you have every day. So if there are no other emotional ties to build that love on, the marriage is probably going to be doomed.

 

Now to argue your husbands side, since I have a somewhat similar situation. What kind of person is he? Is he a good father, hard worker, affectionate? You are destroying his world and everything he has worked for for however long you have been married. If he has been a good and active father with his children, he is going to go from being there every day and night of their lives to getting to see them every other weekend most likely. And if you remarry, some other man gets more time with his children than he does. He goes from being "dad" to a father. If he has been a devoted, honest, faithful husband and has treated you well, no abuse, then he feels he is being unfairly treated. He feels that you are destroying everything he holds dear with no regard for him and his feelings?

 

Sometimes I think women don't really care or realize how hurtful a divorce is for men. Women get the majority of the custody of the kids, collect child support, etc. Men lose their daily time with the kids and have to shell out part of their money to pay for the reduced time with the kids. Women have so much less to lose in a divorce.

[Quilly]

Just to correct you on a few points... I've been the one that has worked the hardest to get my husband where he is today... not vice versa. I'm the one that went to college, worked my way up to a high paying position and had children at the same time. It was my initiative and follow through (in my spare time while taking care of the kids and working full time) that built and sold us three homes and divided up a farm to put a substantial amount of money in our savings account and cleared us from all debt over the years.

 

While my husband is a good father and a good person, he does have a few annoying habits... like buying toys for himself (even when I said no) so that he can "tinker" on them in his coveted barn all hours of the night and on weekends instead of spending time with his family.

 

So while he claims that I am destroying his life, taking him away from his children, and causing him to lose everything he has worked so hard to earn... it doesn't sit well with me. I'm the one that left the house that I built for us, I'm the one that is losing out on time with my children, and I'm the one that had to give up half of everything I earned over the years. I'm not asking for child support or alimony... (and I'm hoping he won't ask for it either.) He has a beautiful home, two beautiful children that he spends more time with now than ever, AND an impressive collection of toys... I think I've done more than enough for him.

 

It isn't always the man that loses out in divorce.

 

Thank you, this perspective on things has helped.

[Devildog]

Sorry Quilly, you didn't provide us with much detail. I was ranting from my current experiences with no knowledge of your situation. I just don't think women always realize the sufffering men go through with a divorce they don't want.

 

in your case it kinda sounds like your husband doesn't want to lose his meal ticket, is that better?

[immoralist]

So, my question is... am I wrong? Is it possible to "try harder" at being in love with someone when you can barely stand talking to the person? Can you force yourself to be in love with someone just because it's what they want and it will keep your family together? Am I being selfish in wanting to be with someone that will respect and understand me, that will be the love of my life and my best friend? Or am I hoping for something that doesn't exist and should therefore just settle for what I already have? Should I be trying harder and if so, how?

 

 

All great, largely unanswerable questions, Quilly. The answer you get will depend on a host of issues: the poster's feelings about marriage, current relationship, values, religious beliefs (or, in my case, non-beliefs).

 

The largest determinant, in my opinion, is experiential: namely, those marrieds who have passed the tipping point (or point of no return) in their marriage will tell you what you want to hear--move on, everyone deserves to love and be loved, a loveless going-through-the-motions marriage is worse on the kids than divorce, etc. These "enders" are either walking in your shoes or have walked in your shoes. They know first-hand the emotional desolation and crushing loneliness of a dead marriage. For them, personal happiness and individual authenticity trump the marital bond.

 

Then there's the Dr. Phils who will argue, with equal passion, that your mere unhappiness is not just cause to nuke your family. That the children, your vows, your husband's love all trump your personal happiness. That you're shedding your marriage and intact family is search of an illusion of personal happiness. For the "stayers" the marital bond, God, etc., trump your feelings.

 

To no one's surprise, in this debate I'm an "ender." You only live once, and your children will survive a middle class divorce. A loveless marriage is a terrible thing for all to endure. Your kids will benefit from a happier mom. There's no right answer; but it's your life.

 

Your life; your choice.

[Quilly]

No, Devildog, I should be apologizing to you. I shouldn't let my frustrations with my husband get the best of me, nor should I direct those at others who are trying to help. I'm sorry for that.

 

Your right, my post was lacking in details... even so, I was sincere in that your perspective was helpful. I guess in divorce there really are no any winners... everyone loses out on something.

[izzybelle]

sinner, as usual, beautifully put! i'm an ender too. some relationships just prove to be toxic and in the end not healthy for anyone.

 

quilly, our situations were similar, and i'm guessing there are many others out there like it. my H was hurt when i asked for the divorced, not surprised, but hurt. i got many of the same guilt messages that you did both from him and from friends. and they have no idea how hard it was to hear that "you just didn't try hard enough." or "you didn't try everything." but, you can't force yourself to fall back in love with someone. i tried, i really did, and finally realized that resistance was futile. i had to accept the truth and move on. i was told i just needed to go on anti-depressants until i somehow made the people who said that realize that my marriage wasn't a mess because i was depressed, i was sad and distraught because my marriage was a mess, big difference but one that many failed to see initially.

 

one of the typical things i heard from my ex was that "he didn't sign on for this" meaning the divorce. plus all of the typical "i don't know that i'll ever be able to love again" kinds of things. needless to say he had moved on before i moved out. in fact it was his moving on that forced me to move out when i did. i had moved into the guest room and he would nightly close the door and call his girlfriend, now fiance. the walls were thin and voices carry and i no longer felt the need to subject myself, by day, to the guilt he was trying to make me feel. and, by night, the emotions and love he was expressing for someone else. definitely made walking away easier because i could no longer buy into the guilt trip he was sending me on. by then most of the paper work was done and as much as i wanted to go back and change things to be more fair to me, i didn't. it would have been more expensive than i could afford. in retrospect a stupid concession on my part but....

 

so in response to your question... only you will know if you've tried hard enough. and i know how difficult it is to admit "failure." if you honestly feel you've exhausted all possibilities and still nothing, then i think you have your answer. you just need to accept it, own it, and move on.

[immoralist]

so in response to your question... only you will know if you've tried hard enough. and i know how difficult it is to admit "failure." if you honestly feel you've exhausted all possibilities and still nothing, then i think you have your answer. you just need to accept it, own it, and move on.

 

 

"accept it, own it, and move on"

 

Well said, izzybelle, well said.

[findinmyway]

Immoralist said it all....in a nutshell.

 

My H and I have been divorced for three years. We moved back in together in January...for one last attempt at reconciliation. He is the stander....the one who believes to no end that values, religious beliefs, children...because of these things divorce is not an option. He, too, resorted to many guiltful tactics the past couple of years and every time we would fail at reconciliation his reason was "you just didn't try hard enough".

 

I am a fence straddler. Part of me wants to believe like he does and wants to be able to take the "high road" at any cost. And, I have tried many times to create feelings that just aren't there. However, it's always that other part of me that makes me realize as good as things look from the outside and no matter how hard I would like for our family to be "picture perfect" again.....when he and I are alone, I just can't do it. So, Immoralist is right...you have to figure out what you can live with.

 

Even after this past year, I struggle with indecision and straddling the fence. I still haven't reached the point that I can say I'm an "ender". But, I have decided that I need to be on my own. I know this will end any chance at H and I reconciling, but I also know I can't continue with him in this state of mind. So, I will be on my own for the first time in my life. And, I hope I can come to grips with myself. Then, I will move on and hopefully find someone. It is sad to think I may be throwing away an opportunity to reconcile with my H, but there is no other way.

 

Take immoralist's advice....analyze and try to realize what will happen on both sides of the fence and then try to determine which side you can live on.

[meanon]

Those who would argue to preserve a marriage at all costs are usually of the opinion that the emotional bonds can be revived if you try hard enough. The damage sustained to family relationships once a marriage is effectively dead is such that not many would advocate it's continuation as a long term solution, other than on religious grounds.

 

In the end, it boils to how much effort is enough in order to know that it's not possible to save the marriage. It's a personal judgement. In your case, Quilly, I believe you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that your emotional bonds with your husband are gone forever. If effort could make the difference, then you would have seen some improvement by now. Have you asked your husband what more he expects, Quilly? If he does not want the marriage to end, I suspect that there will be no circumstances under which he would agree that it is necessary.

[immoralist]

analyze and try to realize what will happen on both sides of the fence and then try to determine which side you can live on.

 

findinmyway, well put.

 

That fence gets very uncomfortable to straddle after a while.

[findinmyway]

That fence gets very uncomfortable to straddle after a while.

 

Yeah, maybe that's why I've gotten to the point that I have to move on...........my crotch has just gotten too sore

[meanon]

 

Part of me wants to believe like he does and wants to be able to take the "high road" at any cost.

The problem is that if people are very unhappy indefinitely then it usually affects their ability to parent effectively. Depression or emotional absence are common.

 

I've seen the effects on children, myself included. The costs are clear, what are the benefits? If the marriage is over, I can't see any benefit for the spouse who sacrifices their life, for the unloved parent who lives in hope in vain, for the kids who lose the care and protection of emotionally healthy parents. For some people there comes a time when, in order to maintain your ability to parent effectively, you need to do it separately.

[immoralist]

For some people there comes a time when, in order to maintain your ability to parent effectively, you need to do it separately.

 

Yes, meanon, there are costs if one stays in a dead, loveless marriage and costs when one leaves. At the end of the day, however, I believe that the emotional and psychological toll of living a lie in a chronically loveless union outweighs the benefits of maintaining appearances.

 

Plus, in my experience, people don't exit marriages lickity split. Often years of emotional isolation, estrangement and alienation precede the physical parting. In fact, given the years of emotional separation, the physical separation is almost anti-climactic.

 

How does one know his/her marriage is dead: When you no longer care what your spouse thinks of you for wanting to leave.

[findinmyway]

Hey, M. Your thoughts are well put, as usual.

 

For me, the benefits are more for myself than my children. It is easier with my H...going to church, ball games, our schedules in general. Takes a lot of effort and coordination when we are apart. For my kids, other than the occasional wanting mommy during a nightmare, it didn't seem to bother them to have two homes. It was the tension between my H and I that bothered them. When I talked to my oldest recently (she's 8) and asked her how it would make her feel if her dad and I decide that we aren't going to get remarried. Her only question was "will you be friends this time"? I said yes, that was why we have been together recently, to learn to be friends again. Her next response was "OOh, what color can I paint my new room!"

[Quilly]

I hear everything that has been said and I've probably asked and you have all told me the same before... I'm not sure why I let the guilt get in the way of what I already know is right. I assume it's just human nature not to want to hurt someone unnecessarily.

 

If I have any regrets, it's not that I didn't try hard enough. It's that it was already too late by the time I realized what it was I felt. I wish I would have been mature enough three or five years ago to have realized that my marriage was not working and to have taken the steps to try to fix it. Unfortunately, it just feels too late for that now.

 

Thanks everyone for helping me to affirm, yet again.. , what I already knew to be true.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Quilly

So, my question is... am I wrong? Is it possible to "try harder" at being in love with someone when you can barely stand talking to the person? Can you force yourself to be in love with someone just because it's what they want and it will keep your family together? Am I being selfish in wanting to be with someone that will respect and understand me, that will be the love of my life and my best friend? Or am I hoping for something that doesn't exist and should therefore just settle for what I already have? Should I be trying harder and if so, how?

 

I don't think this is the issue. You are listening to the content and not the context.

 

It sounds to me like he is simply hurt that you don't love him anymore, and when people are emotionally wounded they do mean, vicious things. I'm sure you have, too....there has to have been a reason that you shut down, emotionally, in this relationship. Just my 2 cents.

 

This is how my husband reacted when we got separated.

[immoralist]

Sometimes it seems that many of us on LoveShack are either separated or hurtling towards separation.

 

 

It's good to see that misery loves company.

[Quilly]

It makes me happy to know I'm not the only one that's feeling miserable.

No wait, I'm miserable. Or am I happy? Ahhh, who cares... LS is great.

[Guinevere04]

I, too, am being told that I am giving up too easily. I just gave up long before I told him.

 

How can you work toward something that you just don't want anymore deep down inside? Whatever the reasons may be.

[utwonderwoman]

I guess I just wonder what ever happened to the following: " to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part"

 

Maybe I am naive, and this stuff just doesn't hold true anymore. Not in this day and age of 'it is all about me and my happiness.'

[findinmyway]

I guess I just wonder what ever happened to the following: " to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part"

 

Maybe I am naive, and this stuff just doesn't hold true anymore. Not in this day and age of 'it is all about me and my happiness.'

 

I can definitely see your point. And, part of me (perhaps the unselfish part) believes you are correct. This is the part that has made me try over and over. I think this mentality has to do with a shift in integrity and morals of our generation. However, in defense of our generation, I also think it has to do with many changes in our lifestyles, such as two incomes (and thus women working outside the home) often necessary. There's more demands, more stress, more pressure today than there used to be. That affects our RS's also.

[utwonderwoman]

I don't want to seem rude, but that is the weakest argument I have ever heard in my life! If it is the demands, and stress of your two income family, find a hobby that relieves your stress. I am not saying there are never grounds for divorce, there most certainly are. Abuse, peadophilia, etc. The biggies. I have talked to SO many couples. It is natural to fall in and out of love during a relationship. In fact, it generally comes in four year cycles. there is some book out there that talks about this, I think it is called Anatomy of Love.

 

I don't recall from your previous posts, but have you tried counseling?

[Devildog]

I have learned quite a few things the last week with my seperation. I am on the unwilling end. Wasn't my choice. But I have learned it isn't about how hard you try, it is about the way you try. You can push all you want on a door that opens with a pull. Try pushing as hard as you can, and it won't open. Give it a pull though... It isn't about trying to accept the way things are. If both people aren't going to give an honest effort things can't change. Quilly has tried to make things better. Her husband has talked about trying to change. If he would put forth even half of the effort Quilly has to finding out where the problems are and what he can do to fix them they wouldn't be in this situation.