I feel so strongly she's made a mistake!

[LateBloomer]

My original attempt to explain the sequence of events is here. It was a bit messy and all over the place. I've finally gotten a night of more than 2 hours sleep (5 yay!).

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t161791/

 

But a shorter a more focused and to-the-point story would read:

 

We started dating in Sept. She was a bit emotionally stand offish & independent. Part of her deal on a certain level. I was needing more warmth, began comparing her to my previous relationship (which was a rebound w/ lots of gooey lala land). Started pining & missing my old GF. Life in general for me was becoming a bummer due to boring job and lack of life progress. But, we still enjoyed each other tremendously and had this amazing ability to communicate together.

 

Oct, Nov, Dec come and go. We have some ups and downs, but demonstrate an AMAZING ability to communicate and process. I start to get freaked out by the fact that we haven't said "I love you."

 

I fall in love with her in Nov. Write it down in my journal that I hope I can tell her. I'm afraid too at the time because she's a bit emotionally distant. Not totally, just noticeably. I find out she has childhood, teenage and twenty something wounds (sexual abuse) which are deep and seemingly related to emotional distance. I don't take this into account for some reason.

 

Fear over lack of "I love you" and boring job & life generate the urge to start smoking pot and play video games (a problem I've had in the past).

 

We spend a magical New Year's together in NYC, meet both our parents.

Then we hit a groove. But still, Feb (Valentine's day) and still no I love you. Finally in late April, she says it to me while hiking. It's the first time she ever said it first to a man. I was elated ... yet also sadly already pretty far down the spiral of video games and pot.

 

She knew about my gaming and smoking, but she didn't feel it was a problem.

 

Time goes on, we continue to grow, having many many wonderful talks about everything, always growing to a better understanding. It was the defining attribute of the relationship.

 

In June, we take a trip to Europe. It starts out as magical. When we finally get to Italy, she tells me one night that she's been having some trouble with my being negative, distracted, and general difficulty with life, not doing the things I need to do to move on.

 

I tell her ok, when I get like that, just let me know. I can either a) buck up and get over it or b) leave the room and cool down. She felt that made sense.

 

We head out to an overnight trip to a small island out in the mediteranean. It's one of the most beautiful places in the world, a live volcano. We have a nice day hiking around, etc... but I start to sense something is wrong.

 

So our last day there, I ask her what's up. Why is she being so bitchy to me. We go back to the hotel and she tells me that she has basically decided I'm not going to change, and that she was planning on breaking up when we got back to the US.

 

I suffer through a terrible boat ride back to Italy. But it dawns on me. The video games and pot are DIRECTLY related. So I tell her. I tell her I'm wiling to quit. Once again, this makes sense to her and we seemingly grow and move on.

 

She comes back to the US one week before me. When I return, I start to feel like I'm walking on eggshells. So I tell her that this has to be about what SHE wants from the relationship and what I want ... and both of us helping each other get that. She agrees. We have a beautiful night, confiding deep confidences, crying, and making sweet love.

 

Oh, by the way, the sex was always amazing, deep, and intimate.

 

My birthday comes around and she tells me how happy and relieved that we're spending it together, and that she loves me.

 

The following week we head to CA for a trip to meet her family in the Redwoods. Once again, an amazing, magical, experience.

 

We get back, and the day after we're back, she tells me she's been feeling distant again. She says the trip to CA didn't bring her any closer. I was devastated. It felt like we were back on that volcano again. The conversation ran between my saying, "How can you do this? We have such a wonderful thing." She replied by saying, "I just don't love you enough." She came up with examples like, "I should have gotten you coffee that morning at camp. I should make time to have lunch with you more at work."

 

None of that made real sense to me. So we left it in this limbo land. The next day I sent her a long email asking her to really think about this because I love her and this relationship is very special.

 

Two days later I try to talk with her, but it seems like she was already RUNNING in the other direction. She started saying things like "We're different people." "We have different energies." She also said the infamous, "I love you, but am not in-love with you."

 

I begged her to think about it. She did, for two weeks. Those were the worst two weeks of my life.

 

When we spoke next, I told her how sorry I was for the way I had acted from December to June. I told her how strong my resolve was to change and finally become the person I've wanted to be. She agreed that I was starting to make changes, but regardless she just didn't feel it anymore. Part of her did, but not enough.

 

I explained the timeline, the "I love you" thing, how a dynamic emerged where she was sometimes scolding me into change and I was resisting, because of my addictions. She agreed with everything, even saying she wishes she had told me of her doubts and problems prior to Italy.

 

There's a contradiction here though. On the one hand, this is about her frustrations with me. On the other hand, she feels as though I was making real change regarding all that, and after I did ... she started to not feel it anymore. She said I was the perfect partner in CA.

 

So we left it as definitely wanting to be friends. I even said I acknowledged at the time that even logistically we couldn't get back together. That dynamic would still be there. Not sure I was right in saying that now.

 

We spoke again, on schedule, about getting together (this was 8 days ago). She called asking what I thought about it, and if it might be too soon. Unfortunately, I had a major relapse the weekend before (due to some meds) that made me feel IT HAD ALL JUST HAPPENED. Those two weeks were erased.

 

So once again, I tried to get her to see the light of reason. I told her it wasn't about moving back, it was about moving forward. I told her that she had been putting pressure on herself to feel this fairytale love and that was a self defeating prophecy. I asked her to consider how her childhood wounds would compel someone to balk at the edge, like a runaway bride. I didn't think it was a coincidence that her fears manifested themselves both in VERY romantic situations.

 

She said that she needed more time of not speaking or emailing so her feelings could die. I asked her to consider that's a mistake. She said she had thought about this whole thing every day for a month. I asked her to consider that if she has to think about it so much, there's something else under there. I asked her to consider that the fairytale love might be around the corner. There's some middle ground between being together and being apart. Perhaps we can just try and see, maybe some couples therapy. Take a step back and see what the real feelings are.

 

Nope, she would have none of it. So once again we agreed that we'd like to be friends, but not sure when. Time has to go by before we can be friends.

 

So here I am about eight days after our last talk, I get some clarity at times, and can see things I was unhappy about too. I also get angry at her for leading me to believe we were moving closer and closer, overcoming the most difficult of hurdles together. That fact actually made me feel for the first time that I could spend my life together with this woman. I was so happy.

 

But I inevitably return to the thought, "Sweety, you made a mistake!" I wasn't the REAL me for much of the relationship. She knows that. Yet she says, "We're different people." The pot smoking and video games were just part of a larger whole. But she's wrong. That's not me. I'm not kidding. I was having a rough time the first few months as my mom had just beat breast cancer, my previous breakup had all this nasty fallout with groups of friends, etc... Besides, if we're such different people why would she even care if we're friends.

 

But that contradiction between "yes you were starting to change" and "it has nothing to do with your changing, I just don't feel it" and "we're such different people" keeps me at times in a stuck mental place.

 

I do continue to work hard on myself. This event has been the hardest in my life and it's shown me some deep issues about myself. I try to stay active, exercise, reconnect with old friends, talk with old ones, volunteer, yoga, going to MA meetings, motorcycle rides, etc... It's not to say I don't think about this and cry out loud, I do. I just know it's important to work on ME and make ME a better person now.

 

But still ... she made a mistake and there's nothing I can do. We could have had a truly magical future together. It's such a tragedy. We connected on so many deep levels. I can't help but think her wounds and fears of intimacy just reared their ugly heads at the end ... and I couldn't beat them.

[nowhereman82]

You can't change over night unfortunately. Cut out those bad habits, replace them with good ones. Build a healthy fulfilling personal life.

 

Once you have done that. You are a worthwhile person to date. And by that time you will most likely be over your ex. But now you get to try again with someone more receptive to the new you. That isn't hanged up on the old you.

[Ronni_W]

A few things came to mind:

1. YOUR "magical moments" are not necessarily hers. From what she was saying (and feeling, as evidenced by what she was saying) around the time of the volcano and the CA trip, she was obviously NOT feeling the magic at those same points that you were.

 

2. For your external world (that is, for HER), yes, that WAS the "real" you with whom she was interacting -- she did not have anyone else with whom to engage and relate. The 'you' that you are in your mind & heart and/or the 'you' that you want/intend to be is only an internal entity -- for the rest of the planet, you are what you present. (There is NOTHING else for "us" to assess.)

 

3. You really don't have the insight and perspectives to be able to determine whether or not her decision is a "mistake" -- she is the ONLY one who has the right, authority and information to make that assessment for herself.

 

All above are pointing to a common but relationship-destroying pattern of not truly allowing others to perceive and experience life according to their own beliefs, passions, needs and desires, emotions, sensitivities and peculiarities.

 

That is, there is a sort of underlying assumption or belief that EVERYONE sees and feels things in pretty much the same way as you do. That is misguided, as you may be able to imagine. And it is destructive because it does not allow the other to truly be and express who they are -- you deny/resist their reality whenever it does match your own. You call their experiences a "mistake" or "misinterpretation" or "over-reaction" or "under-reaction" or just "plain wrong".

(I don't mean YOU-you, necessarily, but those individuals who tend to be stuck in this pattern. 'You' is just an easier way to write it. That said, I'd also encourage YOU to try it on and see if there are any triggers or affirmations that arise within.)

[LateBloomer]

Hey, I appreciate what you're saying, but ...

 

A few things came to mind:

1. YOUR "magical moments" are not necessarily hers. From what she was saying (and feeling, as evidenced by what she was saying) around the time of the volcano and the CA trip, she was obviously NOT feeling the magic at those same points that you were.

 

But she had felt it at other times, at least she said and acted as much. It's more than a coincidence that the "shutdown" happened during these intensely romantic periods.

 

2. For your external world (that is, for HER), yes, that WAS the "real" you with whom she was interacting -- she did not have anyone else with whom to engage and relate. The 'you' that you are in your mind & heart and/or the 'you' that you want/intend to be is only an internal entity -- for the rest of the planet, you are what you present. (There is NOTHING else for "us" to assess.)

Not completely. She knew the person I want to be and saw that I was starting to become that person. She's also contradicted herself as to why it all unraveled. In fact, she's told me she can't even explain it. One the boat ride home she did say, "I'm sorry, I effed this up. I do this at the end of relationships and check out without telling the other person. I'm sorry, I should have told you that about myself."

 

3. You really don't have the insight and perspectives to be able to determine whether or not her decision is a "mistake" -- she is the ONLY one who has the right, authority and information to make that assessment for herself.

I may not have 100% of the insight, but I do have some. I also know what mutual friends have said about what happened. So it's not just me.

 

All above are pointing to a common but relationship-destroying pattern of not truly allowing others to perceive and experience life according to their own beliefs, passions, needs and desires, emotions, sensitivities and peculiarities.

People have unhealthy methods of doing the above, and I think it's valid to consider that when you break up. I've been in other relationships where, yes, it was clearly about some differences there that were deal breakers. Not mistakes. I've never had a relationship end like this where there were so many clear signs that it could go the distance. She herself used to frame things in terms of "the end game of marriage" and how we were on the "two year plan" to eventually move away someplace new together.

 

A random shutdown like this isn't something a person can just "accept" right off the bat. I am trying to process and let it rest.

 

Also, the wounds present in her are undenyable. We tried to talk about them once early on, about the "fear of intimacy" but she just started to cry and it didn't go further. I feel those scars remain largely unprocessed.

 

That is, there is a sort of underlying assumption or belief that EVERYONE sees and feels things in pretty much the same way as you do. That is misguided, as you may be able to imagine. And it is destructive because it does not allow the other to truly be and express who they are -- you deny/resist their reality whenever it does match your own. You call their experiences a "mistake" or "misinterpretation" or "over-reaction" or "under-reaction" or just "plain wrong".

(I don't mean YOU-you, necessarily, but those individuals who tend to be stuck in this pattern. 'You' is just an easier way to write it. That said, I'd also encourage YOU to try it on and see if there are any triggers or affirmations that arise within.)

Yes, I know people feel, act and think differently. But that doesn't mean they can't make mistakes. It also doesn't mean that I'm wrong in her decision being a mistake.

 

If nothing else, her leading me to believe that we were overcoming obstacles while internally harboring criticism, resentment and eventually a destructive negative lens ... was and is very hurtful. She's never even admitted to the role she played in whatever went wrong, nor really apologized for how badly this has hurt me.

[Ronni_W]

, nor really apologized for how badly this has hurt me.

(((hugs))) I am sorry for what you're going through. Wish I had more to offer than just good wishes.

[CaliGuy]

YOU may feel she is making a mistake but she does not. You don't have any control over her whatsoever. The only thing in this life you DO control is you. Let her figure her life out. You need to distance yourself and work on your own confidence and self-esteem.

 

And yes, you ARE wrong in her making a mistake. It's not your decision to make, it's hers. And if she doesn't feel it's a mistake there's nothing you can do about it.

[LateBloomer]

YOU may feel she is making a mistake but she does not. You don't have any control over her whatsoever. The only thing in this life you DO control is you. Let her figure her life out. You need to distance yourself and work on your own confidence and self-esteem.

 

I agree about that.

 

And yes, you ARE wrong in her making a mistake. It's not your decision to make, it's hers. And if she doesn't feel it's a mistake there's nothing you can do about it.

Here I respectfully disagree. The final decision was made in haste. I know you don't agree, and that's ok. She told me how it all went down in her head the day after we got back from Cali. At the time she swore it had nothing to do with Italy. Obviously some confusion there. It was largely due to deeper issues within her. Granted, I can't force her to deal with them. I myself didn't see things about me until about five weeks ago when this happened. It took something as harsh as this to make me see.

 

But her decision affected me too. It wasn't just hers to make. It warranted at least some discussion, not a cut and run. The manner in which it was handled was also quite harsh and sudden. I've been on the other side and think it's better to behave with more compassion, at least explaining to the person how your (ie., the one who makes the break) issues were also at work. Anything you can do to help the person is good, short of stringing them along. But that's just me.

 

I think she ran from what she probably felt was a deep, deep love. She had never told a man "I love you" first, before this. She used criticism to squelch it because the feeling is inherently somewhat uncomfortable for her. I have male friends who do this, they just don't understand why they get so critical. That criticism battled her love and intimacy for a long time. When the criticism had no fuel, the intimacy, like a small scared child, ran as fast as it could. I know this is the truth.

 

So mistake or not, there is nothing I can do. But I can still call it a mistake. I am trying not to use that as a means to hold on. It was HER mistake, not mine.

 

Parsing this with you all has been helpful though.

[CaliGuy]

I agree about that.

 

That's a start.

 

Here I respectfully disagree. The final decision was made in haste. I know you don't agree, and that's ok. She told me how it all went down in her head the day after we got back from Cali. At the time she swore it had nothing to do with Italy. Obviously some confusion there. It was largely due to deeper issues within her. Granted, I can't force her to deal with them. I myself didn't see things about me until about five weeks ago when this happened. It took something as harsh as this to make me see.

 

To her though, it wasn't. She made the decision she felt was best for her. Now you need to make the best decision for you and that's to move on with your life, without her.

 

But her decision affected me too. It wasn't just hers to make.

 

If you were on the other end of the spectrum and made a decision to break up with a girl, you wouldn't ask her if it was OK with her. You'd just do it. Why? Because you'd need to do what is best for you. Yes, it sucks that her decision effected you, but it was still her decision to make. It takes two to make a relationship work and if she doesn’t want in, there's nothing you can do about it.

 

It warranted at least some discussion, not a cut and run. The manner in which it was handled was also quite harsh and sudden. I've been on the other side and think it's better to behave with more compassion, at least explaining to the person how your (ie., the one who makes the break) issues were also at work. Anything you can do to help the person is good, short of stringing them along. But that's just me.

 

Right. That is just you. That is not how everyone thinks. I'm not disagreeing that it sucks, but it's life.

 

I think she ran from what she probably felt was a deep, deep love. She had never told a man "I love you" first, before this. She used criticism to squelch it because the feeling is inherently somewhat uncomfortable for her. I have male friends who do this, they just don't understand why they get so critical. That criticism battled her love and intimacy for a long time. When the criticism had no fuel, the intimacy, like a small scared child, ran as fast as it could. I know this is the truth.

 

So mistake or not, there is nothing I can do. But I can still call it a mistake. I am trying not to use that as a means to hold on. It was HER mistake, not mine.

 

Then you have to accept it. Mistake or not (in your eyes), your hands are tied. The only thing you can do is walk away with your dignity in place and let her sort her own life out. If you try and interfere she will resent you for it. Trust me on that, I learned it first hand. If you want to give her any reason to come back then focus on making yourself happy and try not to dwell on her actions. It's like a drug addict, my friend. You can try all you want, but the only way they get better is when THEY make the choice. You can't make any choices for her. She has to make them on her own.

 

Parsing this with you all has been helpful though.

 

That's what I am here for. I am not trying to rain on your parade, I just want you to see this situation through netural eyes, from someone who's been in your shoes before. Not matter what you do or say, to them, it's never a mistake.

[LateBloomer]

I have no intention of contacting her or trying to change her mind. I don't even think we can ever be friends again, the betrayal to me was deep, and the passive aggressive anger at the end severe. I've never even raised my voice to this woman. I never had any intention of beating up on a wounded little girl inside. But as an adult I do hold her responsible, and am working to move her out of my heart and mind.

[Narf]

Hello... I read your story and i can relate only i am like your g/f... My ex is very very sure i made a mistake.. That he has changed and he knows and wants to.. For himself not just cause i left... and it really really hurts me but i have to stay away. He was a gamer and he was a pot smoker.. He did that most of the time rather then spending time out with me... I tried to ignore it and i did for a long time... but it got to much we discussed it and he said he would change and he would for a little bit.. not give up games totally but would do something with me... and that helped "us" but it would always go back...and by the stage that he actually started to change... i had already started checking out of the relationship to dull the pain when i would get rejected so he could play games and smoke :/ I didnt want to i loved him i wanted a family with him i wanted the future... i would of done anything for him! i wanted to help him but he didnt want to help himself he would just agree to shut me up... He only actually started changing when i had started leaving... and once i had fully left he changed totally... Yes i saw it and it made leaving harder and made me question my decision over and over but the fact of the matter is the damage was done. The change came to late...

Do i think it was a mistake.. Nope... Do i miss him Hell yes... I keep thinking if only he had of woken up earlier.. if only i could get over the damage but it has been a year and a bit and im still not over it... I think of things that happened and i tear up... I think of good times and i smile but i will not go back... i cant... for me i cant

 

Yes our story is different we are all different but maybe the damage was done.. maybe for her own self worth she had to go... maybe she will come back after she gets over the damage... or the other image of you...

 

Good luck and i think all you can do is try show her you have changed but dont crowd her or she will run faster...

[HopeDiesLast]

LateBloomer- i wish i didnt have to agree with Caliguy, but every word of it is true. its true if my story was inserted where yours was. its true for every other dumpee. Theres nothing u can do to change her mind. Doing something is going to make it worse. At this point, its her decision. she effected u, which isnt fair. and yes its a mistake on her part, i agree. but she may never realize or think of it the way you do. its horrible. its hard to think of that, but its reality.

it rocks me to the core everyday. and i get anxiety, and bad dreams. and i pray he realizes soon- but it hasnt happened and now its almost september. we broke up in june.

so when theres nothing you can do, Latebloomer, thats what you do. nothing. you wash your hands of it. you realize how rediculous it is that she did this and you try as much as you can to let it go. somedays its easy and somedays it royally sucks.

you have to have faith that things are happening as they should. that this is happening for a reason you don't know yet. Maybe its because ur better off. maybe its because your ex needs a wake up call. who knows....only time can tell you that.

but as you wait for the next thing to happen, you have to TRY to be happy and move forward. Try by distracting yourself. Try by faking it. Try by cutting her out of your life. You have to try, love. We all do.

((hugs))

[LateBloomer]

Hello... I read your story and i can relate only i am like your g/f... My ex is very very sure i made a mistake.. That he has changed and he knows and wants to.. For himself not just cause i left... and it really really hurts me but i have to stay away. He was a gamer and he was a pot smoker.. He did that most of the time rather then spending time out with me... I tried to ignore it and i did for a long time... but it got to much we discussed it and he said he would change and he would for a little bit.. not give up games totally but would do something with me... and that helped "us" but it would always go back...and by the stage that he actually started to change... i had already started checking out of the relationship to dull the pain when i would get rejected so he could play games and smoke :/ I didnt want to i loved him i wanted a family with him i wanted the future... i would of done anything for him! i wanted to help him but he didnt want to help himself he would just agree to shut me up... He only actually started changing when i had started leaving... and once i had fully left he changed totally... Yes i saw it and it made leaving harder and made me question my decision over and over but the fact of the matter is the damage was done. The change came to late...

 

Well, a difference here is that my gaming never interfered with our hanging out in that way. I only gamed on nights off and briefly when I got home from work. But yeah, there was collateral damage in terms of "thinking" about the game when we were together. Also being absent minded and not paying close attention to what she was saying, her work, etc... So maybe the technical details of "the difference" don't matter. Oddly, she *never* complained about my gaming or my smoking.

 

Do i think it was a mistake.. Nope... Do i miss him Hell yes... I keep thinking if only he had of woken up earlier.. if only i could get over the damage but it has been a year and a bit and im still not over it... I think of things that happened and i tear up... I think of good times and i smile but i will not go back... i cant... for me i cant

 

Yes our story is different we are all different but maybe the damage was done.. maybe for her own self worth she had to go... maybe she will come back after she gets over the damage... or the other image of you...

 

Good luck and i think all you can do is try show her you have changed but dont crowd her or she will run faster...

Well, I'm actually not interested in showing her anything right now to be honest. I don't want any contact and don't even want her to know how I'm doing (it's a small town). She deserves no access to any part of my world now. I'm changing for myself. She saw I was trying to change and could have come along for the ride, but she bet against me. That really hurts, but that's her bet. I am obviously placing a very different bet.

 

Thanks for sharing the other perspective. I do think in this case there was a bunch of other stuff going on too (eg., deep wounds, unprocessed issues, etc...). But yeah, at the end of the day none of that is as important as my moving on, growing, and becoming the person I've wanted to become for a long, long time.

[SadGuy99]

Don't beat yourself up too much over your part here. Sure you did some things wrong, but she is not exactly emotionally healthy. By the way you described her and her abusive past she has some issues. Its doubtful that anything you would have done would have been successful in the long run even if you were being the perfect BF. You DO need to respect her decisions like everyone said and it seems like you are so that is good. You went wrong at the end of the relationship but that is understandable because of the feelings of loss and desparation. Learn from that and dont do it again. FYI Proving to her how she should feel didnt help you, trust me on that.

 

If you feel like you need to make some changes to your life by all means do so. However don't beat yourself up on a failed relationship with someone that has issues. If you want to understand some of this better you should read some abuse sites/etc. You will see how some of the things you describe are common to this and essentially it makes it almost impossible to have a successful R. It may not help your feelings of loss but understanding it will probably make it hurt less and put less blame on her.

[ioncebelieved]

You, like me and almost every dumpee here feel like they made a mistake..and you know what we are right. We know something that do not know. That when we are healed we will be that person they fell in love with, only ten times better.

 

THEY DID MAKE A MISTAKE!!! In time, they will too see. Only thing you can do is what Caliguy and others recommend. NC, heal thyself and move on. It sucks, but it is the only option left my friend.

 

Just think, when you are ten times better, if it is not with ex, but with someone ten times better. I at least hope that much is true and maybe, just maybe our exes were placed in our lives to prepare us for the REAL PERSON!!

[LateBloomer]

Thanks everyone. I've been doing better lately. Had a few drinks tonight with mates at the local jazz pub. Gotta watch that. Feels good at the time, but definitely brings you down later.

 

I'm trying to move on. Naturally, every once and a while the thought comes back ... what a terrible thing has just happened. I suspect she's not really dealing and compartmentalizing all this. But still, that "we could have had something great" feeling stings. I know, I know ... wrong way to think.

 

I'd be curious to know about some of these abuse sites. I did look up long term effects of XXX abuse but didn't find much. When I add it up it seems clear. But she comes off as well put together and self aware ... but then I remember some of her comments ...

 

"I'm sorry, I ****ed this up. I do this at the end of relationships. I check out and don't tell the other person." - on a boat ride home in Italy

 

"I dunno, fear of intimacy? I'm not having this conversation with you!" -then running into the other room eventually crying.

 

Then all the recent justifications and negative case building about how we're "soooo different." It adds up on a certain level. But you know how it goes ... you still miss the person. I guess us guys do have a tendency to romanticize our lovers and the past. That euphoric recollection is rough.

 

The really odd thing is, when I look at other women, none of them interest me at all. She's still the most beautiful woman in the world to me. Strange how the brain works, eh?

 

But as a friend said, "I'm sure the lecherous pervert I knew and loved will return." ;-)

 

No matter. Gonna get up tomorrow, go to work, work as hard as I can, jog my brains out yelling and screaming ... then head to a dinner party. Baseball game this weekend with an old friend should help too.

 

Hopefully next week will be better as I likely get to start working at this volunteer organization, and try out a better yoga studio.

 

Keepin' my fingers crossed.

[Ronni_W]

I'd be curious to know about some of these abuse sites. I did look up long term effects of XXX abuse but didn't find much. When I add it up it seems clear. But she comes off as well put together and self aware

Glad to hear things are looking up for you!

 

At this point of collective experience, struggling with issues like neediness, victim/blame mindset, fear of intimacy, etc., is pretty much part of the "human condition." It's the result of ALL of us not having been taught healthy, effective coping skills while growing up. NONE of us is exempt. It doesn't mean that we were also sexually or physically abused.

 

But I do get that you're hurting and looking for some way to make sense of all of it. The thing is, she is NOT defective in any way, and you are totally lovable.

 

It's just that, from her perspective, the two of you stopped working in perfect harmony. It does not make you defective in any way, and she is still totally lovable. The relationship collapsed, not the human beings who were participating in it. Though some do, of course, "collapse" AFTER a relationship breakdown.

 

 

Important to note though, that those who did suffer childhood abuse most often are also "well put together" with similarly varying levels of "self-awareness" as the rest of us who were not abused -- for the most part, being a survivor of trauma does not make one a drooling idiot .

 

Not to say that 100% she wasn't abused. But, it is folly for YOU to decide that is why she stopped wanting to be with you. It is the same as one of your ex's or future-ex's saying that YOU must have been abused and THAT's why you broke up with them -- that's crazy talk!

[LateBloomer]

But I do get that you're hurting and looking for some way to make sense of all of it. The thing is, she is NOT defective in any way, and you are totally lovable.

 

Actually, I may be lovable, but am very much missing some key ingredients of myself. Not sure how else to explain it. I've been trying to forge them back into my being for a while. Finally, I am starting to after twenty years.

 

It's just that, from her perspective, the two of you stopped working in perfect harmony. It does not make you defective in any way, and she is still totally lovable. The relationship collapsed, not the human beings who were participating in it. Though some do, of course, "collapse" AFTER a relationship breakdown.

 

Well, all I can say is that there ARE things that can affect people's behavior negatively, or at the very least in ways they are not aware of until much, much later. Personally, I think it's important to be as self aware as possible. It's not so much about defects. Whatever you want to call "It" ... it becomes evident when people repeat the same patterns in relationships, which I know she has, and so I have I to an extent.

 

Mature relationships happen when two people are WHOLE (at least for the most part) not filling massive voids in each other and/or trying to heal childhood wounds through the other person. Fullness and healing can happen to an extent, but it can cross a line into codependency and other unhealthy paradigms.

 

Important to note though, that those who did suffer childhood abuse most often are also "well put together" with similarly varying levels of "self-awareness" as the rest of us who were not abused -- for the most part, being a survivor of trauma does not make one a drooling idiot .

 

Lots of road between drooling idiot and someone with issues that lie beneath the surface ... which lead to destructive / problematic / repeated behavior. Many people live full productive lives as such. Many try for something else, dare I say ... more?

 

Not to say that 100% she wasn't abused. But, it is folly for YOU to decide that is why she stopped wanting to be with you. It is the same as one of your ex's or future-ex's saying that YOU must have been abused and THAT's why you broke up with them -- that's crazy talk!

 

Agreed, but I know 100% there was abuse. Not so sure it's folly. Also not saying I didn't play a major role. But explaining the roles and what happend are part of the healing process ... when it's possible. Sometimes the questions are never answered.

[Ronni_W]

quote LateBloomer: Actually, I may be lovable, but am very much missing some key ingredients of myself. Not sure how else to explain it.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I think it happens to everyone -- life takes over, we make compromises with the self of which we're not even aware, we hide bits and pieces of self in order to "fit in" better at work, or home, or in relationship, etc. It IS difficult to put accurate words/feelings to it.

 

Well, all I can say is that there ARE things that can affect people's behavior negatively, ... Personally, I think it's important to be as self aware as possible. Whatever you want to call "It" ... it becomes evident when people repeat the same patterns in relationships,

 

Yes, OF COURSE our words and actions have power to influence how others feel about themselves and their world. I call "it" unhealed emotions and maladaptive coping strategies, but doesn't matter what one calls "it", yes, the same patterns and problems will keep repeating until we resolve our own "stuff".

 

BUT. We each do have the right and power to choose to NOT resolve our crap...whether or not such a choice will "negatively" impact one or more others. We must do what WE FEEL is best for US, first and foremost.

That is, if I am afraid and undesiring of exploring my fear of intimacy, I DO get to choose to honour my fear. If I am willing to allow that to interfere with my relationships, that is up to me. And for those who want to be in relationship with me...that is their problem, for which they can get therapy or whatever. Their problem about my problem/issue is not my burden to solve for them.

 

Lots of road between drooling idiot and someone with issues that lie beneath the surface ... Many try for something else, dare I say ... more?

 

EVERYONE is engaged in at least one form of self-sabotaging pattern in both thought and behaviour. To me, it makes sense to try to eliminate or at least learn to control it (once self becomes aware of it...NOT because someone else is pointing at it.) BUT...I cannot expect/demand/hope that my partner (or friend or mother) feels the same way about personal growth and spiritual evolution as I do. He has the total right to choose to die with all his "dysfunctions" firmly and fully in place.

 

Sometimes the questions are never answered.

 

I think the folly is trying to find answers for other people's questions. By which I mean, trying to figure out the 'why' behind their thoughts and behaviours, trying to find logic in their motivations and desires, trying to assess FOR THEM what are their "mistakes" and "deep-seated issues" and "areas to be improved upon." To me, that IS folly.

 

To me, just work on the self, and the self's mistakes and issues and areas that we want to improve FOR and WITHIN THE SELF.

[SadGuy99]

Maybe I'm not understanging the intent of what is being said here but, abused ppl many times have EXTREME coping mechanisims that make having realtionships hard. Its not nothing and it IS a problem to have a realtionship when this is the case. Yes they are not drooling morons, they are hurt. Being hurt can cause some difficult behavior, take a look at how poorly sometimes "normal" ppl react at the end of a relationship. Now multiply that by 100, when someone that feels trama and cannot escape it they must find a way to cope with it. Those mechainsims stay even after they escape the trama.

 

I have many real life examples. For example, Sometimes out of the blue my W(physically abused) would would start a fight (physical) and then DEMAND that I hit her(of course I didnt). I'd have to physically restrain her so she didnt punch me. Then she'd start crying. And I mean out of the blue, like we were sitting watching TV.

 

There is another person in my life(physically & very emotionally abused co-dependant, abused both ways by her H and emotionally by her mother) that, the smallest criticism (and I mean SMALL) will send her into a rampage. She has very severe trust issues. She has extreme passive agressive behavior. She hates anyone else's good fortune. If something nice happened to me (who she loves) it would seem like a slight to her. Everything that can be taken negatively (especially compliments)will be so you must explain yourself at every turn. Having a relationship with this person is very hard, unpredictable and did I mention hard. Its hard because of the coping mechanisms she has built up due to going through abusive situations in her life.

 

Its not that "normal" people dont have these feelings but many times they are amplifed when ppl go though extreme situations. It may not be the end all determination of things but if you dont think the results of abuse can play a very large role in the success of a relationship you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Not every person reacts the same way, but understanding that person and why they are that way is very helpful. It is not to assign blame to the person, its not their fault its the fault of the person who abused them. To understand where some of this comes from (and realize that its not all you or something you can control or prevent) is important. I'm am hardly an expert, but I have seen this enough first hand to have an opinion.

[Ronni_W]

Maybe I'm not understanging the intent... but if you dont think the results of abuse can play a very large role in the success of a relationship

I'm gonna guess that you'll be extremely happy to find out that no one is saying that! In fact, abuse not only has huge impact on relationships, but also on career, self-esteem, ability to enjoy life in general, pursue personal hobbies and interests, etc., etc. It can be all-around devastating, there is no doubt about that.

[Drakakhan]

I can rely to your experience. My wife wants a divorce because she couldn't see a postive evolution in all my bad habits. For example, if I was angry for one reason or the other I would ignore her. I also used to close doors to loudly and I am a very messy person. I practically begged her to reconsider her decision but she won't. By the way, she is latin , I am Caucacian. My job also played a role in all of this. Ultimately I have been experiencing a lot of stress at work. So when I got home we did have some very serious arguments because I claimed that she was nagging all the time. Now she wants a divorce and I can't stop loving her...

[LateBloomer]

About a month and a half since the breakup ... and I still get consumed with regret over what could have been ... and sorrow over the fact that she ran away instead of sticking with it. I had doubts in the beginning to, but I worked through them and fell more in love with her than anyone I ever had before.

 

I deal with the agony by a ridiculous amount of exercise, yoga, talking to friends ... and breaking down and crying a couple times of day. I don't really have control over the latter.

 

The paradox for me now is that a) I can't see how we'd ever be able to get back together (unless it was some kind of divine intervention) and b) I don't even really want to be friends with her. I have a long list of my own reasons why ... and they all make sense. It starts by her not being honest with me when such honesty could have made a difference.

 

Anyhow, mistakes and tragedies happen in the world. I know all I can do is move on and grow ... which I am ... at a pretty impressive pace from what everyone around me (professional and otherwise) has said.

 

Sometimes pain and scars are just things you learn to live with I guess.

[CaliGuy]

 

Sometimes pain and scars are just things you learn to live with I guess.

 

 

It's what builds character in our lives...

[TrustInYourself]

People who suffer from abuse find it hard to stay in a good relationship. They will typically self sabotage a really good relationship with someone caring, because they feel like they are not good enough for the other person to be so caring.

 

That's her issue, not yours. You are better off growing from the experience.

 

Love lost is never truly lost. She will always be a part of you. Take care.

[LateBloomer]

People who suffer from abuse find it hard to stay in a good relationship. They will typically self sabotage a really good relationship with someone caring, because they feel like they are not good enough for the other person to be so caring.

 

That's her issue, not yours. You are better off growing from the experience.

 

Love lost is never truly lost. She will always be a part of you. Take care.

 

I wish I could feel that way. Right now I feel so betrayed, dismissed, and many other things (scolded ... even now ... the relationship was wrong! don't you SEE that!!!) I don't know if I can ever know her again. I have to bury that part of me that was hers. She may have a wounded child inside ... but she's an adult. I don't wish her bad of course, but honestly can't see how I could ever be her friend.