Please read the whole post, I just started typing and writing my thoughts as they emerged. A series of facts and thoughts!

I have been seeing a married man for over a year now. I ended it three times during that year because although it is an incredible relationship, I know that it is so wrong to carry on allowing it to happen.

We did NO CONTACT for three months. Which was extremely painful for me, and as I now know was also the same for him. We got back in touch and immediately it got back to being full on and just got better.

My situation now is that I need to explore why I seem to have accepted my “other woman “ status. This isn’t about trying to understand his motives or why he will or wont leave his wife, or the rights or wrongs of it. I need to decide what to do next and I need to be sure of what I want in the future before I talk it through with him.

This is about me trying to work out what I do next. I need to put my thoughts on paper , see them laid out and discuss it with people who have some insight and empathy with my situation.

In many ways it is easier for me to keep things as they are.

I have my own house, good job, good friends, no money worries, good relationship with my son’s Dad and my son is doing really well in all areas of his life. And having MM in my life is giving me all the love, attention and affection that I feel I need at present.

We talk every day and see eachother at least two to three times a week. He meets me for lunch during the week. Comes over some evenings during the week , often staying 4-5 hours. On Sundays he spends 10-12 hours with me. Over the past two months we have spent more time together over the whole weekends than he has spent at home. It’s certainly no longer in the realms of only seeing eachother at our best.

When we go out, he has always held my hand, he’s not afraid to do public displays of affection! There is no doubt that we are out together!

When in our own little world, this is consistently the most satisfying and fulfilling relationship that either of us have ever had. He is pretty much my ideal guy. In any other situation, we would be able to say that we are a great match. There is no doubt in my mind that we love eachother very much. We have long since past the “thrill/fling” stage and are still here with a very strong emotional bond.

Friends who really know me and about different relationships I have had in the past all say that they know I wouldn’t be doing this, if it wasn’t actually something serious and positive in my life. I can and have been happily single in the past, because I find that life is better to be on my own and free and independent than to put up with a relationship that isn’t working just so that I have some company!

So, what do I do?.....this relationship has taken me to places in my head and my heart that I have never been before, overwhelming guilt, intense pain when we weren’t in eachothers lives, but overall as far as it has gone I have experienced the kind of love and connection that I have always believed could exist.

You wont be surprised to read that I have endlessly gone over it all in my head, questioned every aspect of it, tried to get to the bottom of how I could be here in this situation. I would say at the moment ,90% of the time I am happy with how things work!!!! Which will sound crazy from many people’s perspective.

Apart from the feelings I have about our relationship and what it has taught me about myself………….is this relationship also showing me that I have a fear of commitment? Am I accepting this other woman status because he is married and therefore it is not likely that I will have to cross that final bridge and make a commitment to someone else and live with someone again and compromise on things.

Is it that I have let him get as close to me and my heart as I will ever let anyone?

Am I rationalising that the relationship suits me down to the ground because I don’t have to face the issue of whether I am able to totally commit to man and a lifelong relationship?

At the same time it’s all but impossible to walk away again from a relationship that is just getting better and better. And a relationship that has for so long given us both far more happiness than it has caused us pain.

Is anyone willing to help me explore this?

[Mr Spock]

Please, PLEASE go buy a copy of "he's just NOT that into you". It will make you laugh.


What do you want from this guy? Is he going to leave his wife?


Eventually, you'll get tired of waiting, and you'll be able to move on.

[murasaki]

OK, I'll tell you what I think:

Originally posted by thisismyview

I have my own house, good job, good friends, no money worries, good relationship with my son’s Dad and my son is doing really well in all areas of his life. And having MM in my life is giving me all the love, attention and affection that I feel I need at present.

We talk every day and see eachother at least two to three times a week. He meets me for lunch during the week. Comes over some evenings during the week , often staying 4-5 hours. On Sundays he spends 10-12 hours with me. Over the past two months we have spent more time together over the whole weekends than he has spent at home. It’s certainly no longer in the realms of only seeing eachother at our best.

You might not always be seeing each other at your best, but neither are you truly seeing each other as real life would impose if you were fully committed to each other (and no one else) and fully integrated into each others' lives. Those weekends you spend together in no way approximate what it would be like if the two of you were living together as a fully legitimate couple. Think about it: when he's at your place, it's your place. He might feel very "at home" and comfortable in your place by now, but it's still very much yours and the full responsibility of maintaining and cleaning and paying is yours -- not his. So you two wake up one morning and discover that the kitchen sink has been leaking, the floor is flooded, etc. And he happens to be handy and sets about to fix it. And you're grateful... ah, grateful! What a difference than what would be the case if that very same situation occurred in a house the two of you were jointly responsible for. He'd be in charge of fixing it, with no gratitude! It would just be his part of the burden, just as you do other things. He wouldn't get to be Mr. Wonderful, Heroic Plumber (if he's not handy in that way, just pretend for argument's sake).

Do you see the fundamental emotional difference? He probably doesn't give a second thought to the way you keep your house. It's not his place. But what if it were? Would everything be as effortless, as unquestioned? I doubt it. I really do.

The niggling details of everyday life are a genuine threat to Romance. It's hard to live up to your obligations and still have the emotional energy, the time, and the inclination to cultivate romance. Right now, your relationship with this guy is a break from the demands of his real life. He might cheerfully help out in all kinds of ways in your life, but he always gets kudos from you for doing so, right? He's not obliged to. I've seen many men who happily volunteer to do things when no one expects it of them -- time-consuming and/or expensive things! -- but chafe the moment someone suggests they have an obligation to do something. And it's not just about tasks and whether or not he gets credit for doing them. It's about actually carving out a mental/emotional space to nurture some romance. With you, the space is automatic. His real life and its small worries cannot intrude; when he's with you he can't do a darn thing about getting his mom into a nursing home, or making sure his kids have done their homework, or cleaning out the garage.

I suspect that most people who undertake affairs are not bad people who just want to be selfish and deceitful. And I don't doubt that the emotions you and your MM feel for each other are genuine. But take a look at the circumstances under which those emotions have been able to develop. It's not really the real world. The demands of daily life don't fully dominate, as they usually do in real life, in legitimate relationships.

I'm just saying that if you ever have hopes that your relationship will become the primary, sole relationship in this guy's life, you might well find that if it does come to pass, the magic you feel will disappear... and then he might too. Remember, no matter how wonderful you think this guy is, he is cheating. He's not dealing with his marriage the way he ought to. If it's a bad marriage, he should leave it. If it's a flawed-but-still-desirable marriage, why is he sabotaging it? Cheating doesn't have to mean a person is irredeemably bad, but it does suggest that they don't deal very well with problems in their relationship.

Good luck.

That's an excellent post by murasaki.

[sami]

we only need to wait and see what time will bring through your way/s. I mean either you, him or both. Just wait and be patient.

[Quilly]

Why is it when someone in an affair says they have fallen in love with the perfect person for them, that it's automatically discounted on the basis of "it's not a real relationship," "you don't see him/her at his worst," or "it's all just a fantasy."

I don't know of many people that finds someone they are interested in and move right in together and/or get married. Typically there is a period of time where you are dating or seeing each other. How is this any different from an affair? And why does being in an affair suddenly make you a poor judge of what it is you're feeling?

I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a thread where someone is given the same advice as ThisIsMyView has been given in this thread had only one detaill been different... that MM was a single man.

Recognize that I'm not arguing the morality of affairs here... I'm just wondering why that one detail can in effect completely discredit a person's capabilities and feelings. Just curious.

[KissMyTiara]

I agree with Quilly.

Everytime you start to date someone, whether they are married or not, they see you at your best (hopefully) and don't have to deal with all of your little day-to-day things. You feel something for that person at that time, the giddiness, the "wow", the puppy love...and that is real. When you are feeling those same "wow" feelings for a man that is married, that is still 100% real. Perhaps what is really the case is that when you eventually get to the day-to-day stuff, some of the passion and romance wears thin....but that doesn't mean the passion and romance in the first place was fake.

The difference is that in an affair, the honeymoon phase lasts longer - seems to me (like in my situation) that the honeymoon phase when in a relationship with a MM actually lasts for so long as the affair continues. The different dynamics of each relationship doesn't make what is felt any less real.

My heart hurts when my MM leaves the same way my heart hurt when a different guy I was in love with would go away on a trip. The feelings, in both instances, were real. Different situations, different men, but still REAL.

As for why ThisIsMyView is willing to be involved as an OW, I have rationalized the answer. Without MM in your life, you have everything in life you could possibly want except excitement, lust, passion, great sex, pillow talk, etc. You don't want someone around 24/7, you don't want more children, you don't need someone to help you pay the bills, etc. He fits his purpose - for now. The problem will arise when you decide you want more. THAT's when it's gonna reeeeeeeaaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyy hurt.

[murasaki]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara
I agree with Quilly.

Everytime you start to date someone, whether they are married or not, they see you at your best (hopefully) and don't have to deal with all of your little day-to-day things. You feel something for that person at that time, the giddiness, the "wow", the puppy love...and that is real. When you are feeling those same "wow" feelings for a man that is married, that is still 100% real. Perhaps what is really the case is that when you eventually get to the day-to-day stuff, some of the passion and romance wears thin....but that doesn't mean the passion and romance in the first place was fake.

I don't know if this comment and the one preceding it were in response to what I posted, but I'll respond to what you've said to point out that, in my view, it's not a question of the emotions being "fake," but rather that at least one person is demonstrating that they are not very good at handling the real-life details of a committed relationship.

I agree, when a normal relationship starts out, you see the other person, first at their "best," and then as the relationship progresses, you see them with greater clarity, not always at their best, but still not fully integrated and responsible in your life. That doesn't happen until a couple makes a firm commitment (through marriage, or whatever step is meaningful to them).

The difference that I see is that in the infidelity scenario, at least one and sometimes both partners are engaging in a relationship that is an escape from what they have already committed themselves to. That demonstrates that a) their ability to commit is flawed, and b) that quite possibly part of the appeal of the affair lies in the fact that it is an escape from the mundane hassles of their committed relationship. It's not that either partner doesn't really feel what they say and think they're feeling for their lover. It's that what's behind those emotions is only sustainable in the context of an affair that's removed from the obligations of real life; and moreover, that at least the adulterer (that is, the person cheating on a partner) is not able to address issues in his/her primary relationship. At the end of the day, every lover of a MM/MW has got to ask themselves, "why is this person cheating with me? Why not leave the unsatisfactory marriage?" I know there are all kinds of rationalizations, and if you want to buy into them, of course you will. I'm not saying that I wouldn't buy into them if I were in such a position. I know what it's like to want to be loved by someone, and to believe that the right person is someone who, objectively speaking, is an unrealistic candidate to love me (although I've never engaged in infidelity -- either my own or someone else's).

If you're determined to believe that your relationship is pure and not the result of your married lover's insufficient coping skills when it comes to relationships, well, I hope things will work out for you. But I suspect that if you could achieve some genuine objectivity, you'd probably conclude that a married lover, especially one who isn't looking to become un-married anytime soon, is a bad bet (and admit reality to yourself: if your love has been talking for months/years about wanting to leave his/her spouse, but hasn't done so yet, the likelihood that he/she will is very slim indeed). I'm not suggesting that the lovers of married people are just sex objects, or just emotional crutches. But sometimes you can love someone and see that despite their wonderful qualities, they have serious flaws that make them very bad candidates for lasting love. That doesn't negate the truth of what you feel for them. I'm simply pointing out that those emotions may be more a function of circumstance than you've recognized.

If you are getting what you need from him emotionally and feel you will never need anything more from him, then I suppose you could continue on as is. Eventually you may want more and will realize that he isn't going to leave his marriage for whatever reasons and you may regret the time you spent with him, if it turns into years, or you may not and may still feel happy to have had him in your life. I think all of what's been written in response makes sense. In affairs and in marriages people are usually working through family conflicts/relationships from their immediate and extended families. There are few completely healthy relationships, otherwise people most likely wouldn't have affairs or look elsewhere to get whatever is missing, they wouldn't divorce or stay in unhappy marriages etc. They wouldn't be in marriages where they feel they have to be constantly vigilant and spy on their spouses, that is a horrible way to live imo. Have you ever discussed his marriage with him, why it isn't working and how he feels about it, how he feels about you etc.? By continuing a relationship with him, you are both helping and harming his marriage and his family if he has one and yourself to a degree. And I guess you do know since you brought it up that this relationship feels safer to you because you don't have to deal with the realities of daily life and how they affect intimacy.

I think it is entirely possible to love more than one person in your life and probable through an extended long lasting marriage whether it's a relatively happy one or an unhealthy one that this will happen to one partner at least. It is also possible to love someone, and never to act on it. That would be the ethical thing to do if this happens.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally posted by thisismyview

Am I rationalising that the relationship suits me down to the ground because I don't have to face the issue of whether I am able to totally commit to man and a lifelong relationship?

It seems to me that you are satisfied with the situ as is. BUT, what if he left his wife and wanted to marry you?....what you you say?.



or the opposite situ, like those in Guest's comments:

Originally posted by guest
Eventually you may want more and will realize that he isn't going to leave his marriage for whatever reasons and you may regret the time you spent with him

[Sky]

What an amazing discussion...

I've always taken the view that my relationship with my MM wasn't really real. We actually saw each other 5 nights a week and around 5 plus hours each time. That's a big 25 hours, more than his wife ever saw him Im sure, and more than I ever saw my previous b/f.

But then, I think my relationship was more of an escape for him,... we acted like teenages hanging out on the lounge. In 'real life' he had a high pressure job...a wife and 4 kids... We had a lot of fun together -- enjoyed each others company immensely and shared a lot of love -- which I recon was at least somewhat genuine.

We never did adult things together. I mean, sure, we got the groceries occassionally -- but, we never woke up together and decided what to do with our day or weekend. We never planned for our future together, talked about finances (always a toughie in a relationship), never had to be responsible to each other -- when he got upset with me he just went home to his wife, when I got upset I just waited for him to go home to his wife. We never had a commitment to each other... he could tell me all the 'I love you's in the world', and it wouldn't change the fact that he was going to be sleeping in his house with the wife that night. We couldn't meet each other's families or each others friends. Everything had to be a secret..

I guess the worst thing for me was that I couldn't feel I could naturally progress the relationship to the next stage if I wanted. When I've been in other relationship I could get to know my partner -- have him stay over, spend a few weekends together and see how it went. But, he was like on curfew all the time... it's restrictive. I wanted to know -- hey, if we spent the weekend together would we just be lying around on the lounge together watching TV or would be be out doing things, visiting galleries, going to the beach, whatever ... If he lived with me -- would my amazing domestic skills (not) drive him crazy, would we drive each other crazy -- or would it be all good... I don't know -- the only way to find out would have been for him to have left his wife... it was kinda a big ask for someone to do in a way -- I mean, cause I didn't act like I wanted it (I couldn't)... It was something I could never have asked him to do. Ever.

Thank you all for the intelligent conversation. I've been seeing my MM for almost eight months now and the happiness/sadness balance is just starting to tip. Ouch.

You are helping me live through it. Thanks.

An affair is like a vacation. New place, wonderful sunsets, Love to live there. But sooner or later you want just want to go home. Or (as in my case) you want to stay, you notice the new location has lost its luster and you wish you never moved. hope that make sense to you. Take it from someone who knows.

I have to apologise for starting a request for feedback and then not responding...my PC died and it's taken a while to get back on line.

Thank you to everyone who took time to reply, but reading through the replies i think that Sky's response is more on the button.

My post wasn't about the trauma's of will he wont he leave or even do i think he is the one...it was more about me trying to understand why I am doing this. It was about me....

I realise that text on a screen can never portray the whole picture and one can come across as naive if just a few thoughts are written down without the full background.
(because no-one wants to read the blow by blow account do they!!) I totally understand all that murasaki said about Reality.....I was married and know what real life is all about....i thought my ex husband was the best thing when we met....but I was younger then!!

I think that i may have posted in the wrong forum....I need to find a good site that deals with "who am I? and why am I doing this ?"

I'll never regret the time I have spent with MM, ever!...it's taught me so much, and it has felt like the best relationship I have ever experienced. I still know it's wrong, I still feel a lot of guilt, but I also know that we have a fundamental connection.....can't explain it.....dont know if it will last ( but part of me thinks that , that is because we are conditioned to believe that stuff like this doesn't happen!)

I don't know if he is the one and I am prepared for the fact that he might not be...... I just want to know why...this man..makes me so happy...feel so loved, feel so good, every day....he makes me laugh, he makes me smile....he supports me, he is gentle , he is kind....he is attentive, he makes time for me, but he is also a man, he is cool and has a great personality, he's a great friend, i don't SEE him every day but I feel close to him all the time, he frustrates me sometimes because he is not like me! or because he doesn't see the world always as I do..........BUT I AM ALSO HAPPY THAT HE IS NOT AVAILABLE!!!!!! and I just don't want or need to end it!

It's ME I need to understand!

This is the wrong forum, because I am not a desperate OW, I am just a woman who is experiencing something great who doesn't know how to reconcile it.

[krbshappy71]

*stands up and applauds muraski's post" BRAVO BRAVO!! You were so diplomatic with her and non-attacking, that was a very good post that every one should be able to read and learn from. Thank you, there is nothing more I could add.