Really not sure what I'm going to hear, but here is my story. While I realize that it is just my side, I will try to be as honest as I can and will check back often to answer any questions. I would appreciate as much Feedback as I can get, good or bad.
I have been with my wife for 12 years, but only married for two. About almost two months ago, she told me out of the blue that she wanted a divorce, no counseling, no other options, just wants out.
We have continued to talk, and among many complaints she has had for me was that I am emotionally abusive. This hurt me, because our whole time together, I have always tried my best to do what was right for her and she has never really complained. It has gotten me thinking though. I can isolate some situations, Things she has labeled as abuse. I don't want to be that guy, for her or if need be for somebody else. I guess my question is, can lapses in judgement or emotionally charged situations in my mind, be a pattern of abuse?
I have not been a perfect partner and have had my problems, I can admit that. I can be jealous at times. Early in our relationship I was extremely jealous and possessive. I had been in a string of bad relationships and suspicion tended to rule my mind until trust was built between us. This was an unhealthy part of our time together, but as my trust in her grew things became better and the suspicions faded. In those times, i would grill her if she was late without calling and often accused her of being unfaithful. This was almost nine years ago or so. Since then I can honestly not recall any time I have accused her of anything like that until right before the divorce. A couple of weeks prior she had asked me for permission to travel to the city for the day, with an ex-boyfriend of hers that she had recently become friends with again. I was also made clear that I was not invited. I had told her previous to that, that spending time with him made me uncomfortable and requested that she not see him. I had never requested she not see any of her friends before this guy. She has many male friends that she lunches with alone, and talks to on a regular basis, but this particular situation made me very uncomfortable. I did not accuse her of anything or even suspect, I was more concerned with his intentions. Later after the divorce request, and we tried to work on our problems, I must admit that i am guilty of checking up on her. I looked at her cell phone, checked her E-mail, etc. to find out that she had been in constant contact with this guy behind my back. I had never felt the need to check up on her before. Was this behavior abusive?
While I do not punch holes in the wall, or anything like that, there are instances that I reacted violently. Early in our relationship, I had shoved her pretty good a few times. I would say enough to be counted on one hand, but not sure of the number. She had never gone to the ground, but after the last time I sought out counseling so that I would not allow it to escalate further. I believe that i can honestly say that i have never laid a hand on her in anger since. I can remember throwing things or knocking thing over on four occasions. The first time was many years ago during a particularly heated argument I knocked over a dresser. The next occasion was right before the divorce in the situation with her ex, upon leaving for work I kicked my car very hard damaging it. She was not present for that. During a discussion about the divorce, when I realized she was reading a book while talking to me, I took the book ant threw it out in the yard. Lastly when I had discovered she had been sneaking behind my back, I shattered a glass cutting board when she couldn't decide between the other guy and me. While these are definitely not healthy behavior, given the circumstances, would this be considered abuse?
Criticizing, is one I know I'm guilty of. There are certain subjects that i can recognize that I criticized her unfairly on. Mostly, the way she drives and some things around the house. Pet peeves of mine that really didn't mean anything yet I would comment on anyways. There had been times when this was going on, that I would stop and ask myself why it mattered, and it didn't. It wasn't an intentional thing, there was nothing to gain from it. it would always start as a suggestion or just sharing my opinion, but things would quickly escalate into a pointless stupid argument about something that was meaningless. I had been making every attempt to curb this behavior or avoid the subjects all together,on my own but I would still slip and felt terrible about it. I would tease her about her work sometimes. She works from home with computers, while i work a more physically taxing job. When she would complain of a hard day at "work," I would often compare hers to mine in a negative way. I realize that there are different types of work stresses, it was kind of hard to hear about her troubles when I was dead on my feet. This doesn't make it right.
These I believe are the major issues we have had. While I am sure there are more, and please feel free to ask ??? There are definitely unhealthy behaviors here, I will not deny that. Is this enough to constitute an abusive marriage worthy of divorce? I look forward to your feedback.
Don't take this the wrong way, but she probably should have left you when you started pushing her or being physically aggressive toward her. I am in no way a supporter of abuse whether it's physical, emotional, sexual; against a man or a woman.. it's all wrong in my book.
Obviously, she made the choice to forgive you for this and stay with you. And that's fine.. The examples that you mentioned (shoving, aside) did not seem abusive. To me, it sounds like you lost your temper. I haven't dated a single guy who hasn't thrown something or kicked something or knocked something over out of frustration or anger or anxiety at some point in their life. If you were able to take out some of your annoyances on inanimate objects instead of her, that's actually a good thing in my opinion. Now, if you were destroying things on a daily basis, that's a bit excessive.. but it sounds like an occasional thing. Same goes if you were throwing things directly at her.. that could be considered abuse.
Possessive and controlling behavior can very easily be related to emotional abuse. While going through her things is not a very nice thing to do, I don't consider it abuse. If you use your findings as reason to call her names, put her down, try and make her feel worthless, bully her, etc., etc.. then THAT is more what emotional abuse is.
I do not know that her telling you that she believes you are "emotionally abusive" was her true reason for wanting to leave you. It sounds to me like she is trying to find somewhere to place the blame besides herself. It is understandable that you wouldn't want her hanging around her ex-boyfriend from years and years ago. This would raise questions for me too, if I was in your situation.
It sounds to me like you have taken advantage of the therapy and counseling you received.. you don't sound abusive. It sounds like you struggled with some issues a long time ago, but it also sounds like you have done much to try and fix the issue and overcome those behaviors.
If you ask me, I think your wife is just looking for any reason to leave you.
Since the words she used is "emotionnally abusive", I paid more attention to what could be construed as emotional abuse. Two things stood out:
1) You say she asked you for permission to see a friend. Granted, I understand you likely only used that phrase lightly, but why would two equal partners need to ask each other permissions to do things? In my current and past relationships, we discuss our actions together, and hopefully arrive at a compromise that works for both of us. I have never felt like I had to "ask or grant permission", even when discussing exes and friends of the opposite gender. Also, in this instance, you say you were worried about his intentions, not hers.
2) The criticizing. My ex, an otherwise outstanding human being, did like to criticize me a lot, and tell me how to do things. Now that I'm in a new relationship where I have yet to be criticized once, I wonder why I ever put up with it. I guess it brings me back to the "ask for permission" thing. To me, my ex's criticism often felt like put downs. It ensured that he kept being in the drivers seat, and made me feel like I was somehow deficient. Now, maybe if I had had a thicker skin I would have been able to take it with a grain of salt and some humor. (Times he made me cry, he said it was all a joke). So, no, I don't necessarily think it makes you an abuser, but, if your wife is anything like me, it does make you and your wife incompatible.
Marital history rewrite by a cheater in the fog, IMO. Taking of imperfections in action and behavior and projecting them as global negatives.
Now would be a good time for you to work through these issues. If you don't, they'll beat up your self-esteem for a long time to come. You're taking responsibility for your actions. That's a good thing.
Beware of gaslighting. I'm sensing some of it here. IME, you will never be a match for a woman when it comes to emotional manipulation. Do not try to rationalize or otherwise engage in such dynamics. Stick true to your responsibility and your actions and your wants and needs in the M. Don't waffle.
Is she ready to leave? If so, make sure it's her. Don't abandon your home.
Are you ready for some clarity? Tell her to cease contact with the ex-BF and join you in MC. If no joy, go alone and file for D. BTW, I am aware that she wants a divorce. The key here is that you take proactive and positive action. Simple as that.
A couple of weeks prior she had asked me for permission to travel to the city for the day, with an ex-boyfriend of hers that she had recently become friends with again. I was also made clear that I was not invited. I had told her previous to that, that spending time with him made me uncomfortable and requested that she not see him.
...
While I do not punch holes in the wall, or anything like that, there are instances that I reacted violently. Early in our relationship, I had shoved her pretty good a few times. I would say enough to be counted on one hand, but not sure of the number.
This are the only examples of abuse, in my opinion. The last one is/was on you. But the first one is on her.
She's re-writing history to justify to herself what she's doing. This really isn't about you.
The thing about being the abused -- if SHE sees it that way, then that IS how she sees it...that is HER perception of her situation as seen through her own filters, wants, goals, needs, beliefs, etc.
It doesn't mean, though, that she's using accurate definitions or interpreting her "evidence" accurately.
It sounds is if you do have anger/rage issues. You got a bit of help with that, but sounds as if you might be wise to undertake to totally get that side of yourself under control.
Jealousy, criticism, even over-control...well, who does NOT engage in some of that, some of the time? Yes, they are damaging to a relationship but so is passivity, withdrawing, under-responsibility, etc. It depends on the degree but, IMO, are in the range of 'normal' dysfunctional/unconscious behaviour and not what would be generally accepted as "emotional abuse" (again, depending on the degree.)
As carhill says, it could also just be her grasping at straws and looking for ways to deflect her own inconsiderate and relationship-damaging behaviours onto you.
If you are also trying to decide whether or not you want to stay in this marriage, I'd suggest to take "emotional abuse" out of the equation and use all the other factors to arrive at your own conclusions.
You said an instance was the day before her divorce was final with her ex, were you an OM? Did you get with her before she divorced? Is this the reason you were overly jealous, because she cheated with you, so you thought she would cheat on you? If this is the case, you knew her character before you married and she knew yours, sounds like a divorce was inevitable if you(and she) haven't changed your core value systems.
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Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.
Thanks for all the honest replies. I forgot, that he story of my divorce is also on LS http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t190291/ For a clearer picture if you'd like.
MISSDEPENDENT- I agree with you 100% about the physical aspect of things. The shoving was just that, not into a wall, not to the ground, but still unexcusable. That is why I sought out counseling and any time we had a fight after that I kept the image of that moment in my head, lest I repeat it. She did forgive, and I have always been greatful for that.
KAMILLE
1. She did not "ask for permission" and this was not a necesity in our relationship, just as you described. She more or less asked how I felt about it. I had been under the impression that she was no longer in contact with him since our last conversation about him, that was the reason I reacted (although poorly) the way I did.
2. The criticizing, was a problem I had recognized in myself. Unfortunately I have to own that one, and I;m working on it. Guilty as charged.
CARHILL- If you check back in, I'd like to hear more about "gaslighting" me? her? both??? I have devoted myself to working on my issues, and have entered counseling to help with that. While I am hoping more then anything for a reconcilliation, my marriage is all but over, she has moved out, and filed, my summons is staring at me as I type. This post was more about exploring flaws in myself that need to repaired.
Ronni_W- Very good way of looking at things. Like i told Carhill, I have entered counseling to focus on these issues, if not for this relationship, then for the next one. I'm not sure to what degree, this would be considered, these instance, while very wrong, are spread over 12 years and I have tried to recall all that I could.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentnotbroken
You said an instance was the day before her divorce was final with her ex, were you an OM? Did you get with her before she divorced? Is this the reason you were overly jealous, because she cheated with you, so you thought she would cheat on you? If this is the case, you knew her character before you married and she knew yours, sounds like a divorce was inevitable if you(and she) haven't changed your core value systems.
No, I believe you misread something, this has been a first marriage for both of us. I believe I was overly jealous due to being cheated on in relationships previous. Once again Guilty as charged.
Thanks for all the honest replies. I forgot, that he story of my divorce is also on LS http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t190291/ For a clearer picture if you'd like.
MISSDEPENDENT- I agree with you 100% about the physical aspect of things. The shoving was just that, not into a wall, not to the ground, but still unexcusable. That is why I sought out counseling and any time we had a fight after that I kept the image of that moment in my head, lest I repeat it. She did forgive, and I have always been greatful for that.
KAMILLE
1. She did not "ask for permission" and this was not a necesity in our relationship, just as you described. She more or less asked how I felt about it. I had been under the impression that she was no longer in contact with him since our last conversation about him, that was the reason I reacted (although poorly) the way I did.
2. The criticizing, was a problem I had recognized in myself. Unfortunately I have to own that one, and I;m working on it. Guilty as charged.
CARHILL- If you check back in, I'd like to hear more about "gaslighting" me? her? both??? I have devoted myself to working on my issues, and have entered counseling to help with that. While I am hoping more then anything for a reconcilliation, my marriage is all but over, she has moved out, and filed, my summons is staring at me as I type. This post was more about exploring flaws in myself that need to repaired.
Ronni_W- Very good way of looking at things. Like i told Carhill, I have entered counseling to focus on these issues, if not for this relationship, then for the next one. I'm not sure to what degree, this would be considered, these instance, while very wrong, are spread over 12 years and I have tried to recall all that I could.
No, I believe you misread something, this has been a first marriage for both of us. I believe I was overly jealous due to being cheated on in relationships previous. Once again Guilty as charged.
I am on the fence about this. I think abuse is subjective, and if the person you are with views it as abuse, then you know you are doing something wrong. I grew up in an abusive family, but it manifested itself differently. Just going off of what I consider abuse, I'd say that you weren't abusive per se, you just have a big issue controlling your temper. There is no excuse for behavior when you lash out or behave violently, because there are always better options...but I do believe it happens to the best of us at one point or another. You seem very critical, and even you admit it. It's good that you recognize these things now. It's fair for your wife to consider divorce if the person she invests time in puts her down in one way or another. I don't consider this an abusive marriage, but one that needs to be remedied on BOTH ends. And being worthy of divorce is in yours and your wife's hands. I truly do believe that because you have recognized the issues and don't deny them, that you have a good chance at changing your behaviors by trying little things everyday that help you in a positive way. Whether it be taking 10 breaths before you respond to a comment, or even reading some self help books, writing your negative feelings down in a blog, whatever it is.
Well I commend you on coming out and asking everyone about a topic that's so personl.
Very few people are willing to confront and admit to things that are bad about themselves, that's why so many people have bad habits and behaviors in the first place.
I would say from your description of events that yes you are abusive. A lot of guys are abusive, it's only when I talked to female friends and looked at research that I realized that probably 10% of guys are abusive.
Abusive guys tend to be insecure about that their partners do, especially with members of the opposite sex.
They get physical which you admitted.
They can make comments which to them is just a joke but hurtful to the other person, and often controlling without realizing it.
Have you witnessed abuse in your family as a child. That often causes absuive behavior later on in life.
If she really wants a divorce there's not much you can do to stop her other than to tell her you will get therapy and change for good. But then you have to actually change........
Last edited by Hkizzle; 25th July 2009 at 12:44 AM..
Reason: missed out a line
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