RealityCheck Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 OW's And BS's alike.... We have all suffered a dull aching pain and have decided to show others the same Why? Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Not sure what you mean by "Show others the same." Do you mean sharing our experiences with each other here on LS? Or do you mean taking out our personal anger on other posters? trying to inflict our own dull, aching pain onto others, so that our misery will have some company?? Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 ...and the children on both sides...Let's not forget how much damage can be done to these poor little ones who are the only ones not to blame for a sole thing. Often they are caught in the middle of the firing range! It is really pitiful. Link to post Share on other sites
scaredinlove Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 ...and the children on both sides...Let's not forget how much damage can be done to these poor little ones who are the only ones not to blame for a sole thing. Often they are caught in the middle of the firing range! It is really pitiful. If the parents are mature enough to live tha kids out of their bussiness than the kids won't suffer. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 How can the kids not suffer, especially if their parents split up and one moves out, to be with their OW/OM? Yes, you can make it less painful for the kids by not exposing them to the bad stuff and raw emotions, but they'll still suffer in someway. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 If the parents are mature enough to live tha kids out of their bussiness than the kids won't suffer. Yes, I agree but so few are mature enough to leave the kids out of it. I have seen it happen time and time again. Sometime it can happen intentionally and other times it simply snowballs in that direction because of all the explosive emotions that are involved. I have seen betrayed spouses tell their children about their Dad so that they may exert pressure on him not to leave the family. I have seen children threaten to never talk to their Dad if he doesn't leave the OW. I have also seen OW threaten to expose the deceit even to the children. When all is said and done, affairs are really not worth the anguish they cause. I know this for I have been down that threacherous dead end path. The price one must pay is simply too high! Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 ...and too many people eventually, in one way or another, do get hurt! Link to post Share on other sites
CAT100 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 ^ I agree. I think it must be better for the kids to have 2 happy parents that are seperated than 2 unhappy ones together. One of my friends was brought up in an environment where his parents were constantly arguing but they stayed together 'for the kids' he now says as an adult he wished they'd just split. He would have had a more stable, happy, well adjusted upbringing than being in the middle of a war zone constantly Link to post Share on other sites
Hurt & Alone Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Children of the marriage, regardless of age do get hurt. My xmm's W told his daughters whom are in college about the A. My thoughts on this was the W was grasping at any straws to hurt him no matter how many others she hurt in the process. RC I am confused about your original question. Could you please clarify the question? Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 ^ I agree. I think it must be better for the kids to have 2 happy parents that are seperated than 2 unhappy ones together. One of my friends was brought up in an environment where his parents were constantly arguing but they stayed together 'for the kids' he now says as an adult he wished they'd just split. He would have had a more stable, happy, well adjusted upbringing than being in the middle of a war zone constantly There can be no doubt that this is true. When Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 OW's And BS's alike.... We have all suffered a dull aching pain and have decided to show others the same Why? I'm not sure of your question either? I do understand that the OW suffers as does the BS, pain is pain and honestly, (I don't mean this rudely against anyone here, it's just plain common sense) but the difference is the OW/OM brought on that pain by having an affair with a MM/MW. Bottomline, everyone gets hurt. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Our children's welfare should be our prime concern! If this means leaving a bad marriage so as to provide them with a stable, secure and peaceful environment, then, so be it. When I left my husband, this was my most paramount concern. I did not want to raise a little girl who would grow up to be a very disturbed and unhappy adult. Today, she is twenty three years old, a lawyer, doing her Master's degree in Spain and she's always with a big happy smile on her face. She also loves her father and enjoys a good relationship with him. I saved my daughter's sanity as well as my own!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I'm not sure of your question either? I do understand that the OW suffers as does the BS, pain is pain and honestly, (I don't mean this rudely against anyone here, it's just plain common sense) but the difference is the OW/OM brought on that pain by having an affair with a MM/MW. Why do we have to have this comparison of pain (and negation of the OP pain) over and over and over..? the OW/OM "bought it on themselves" because they knew the other person was married (leaving aside those who didn't know anything of the sort). Do you go around telling people they 'bought it on themselves' in every situation..? Friend gets food poisoning: oh dear, you must be feeling terrible, but you know what I told you about eating seafood. Colleague loses their house in a fire: oh my that has to be devastating, but you know what if everyone would only get water sprinklers such things would never happen. Child falls off a bike and hurts themselves: oh honey that must sting, but you know what you bought it on yourself by riding without stabilisers. What point does all this finger-pointing serve..? Oh yes, makes the finger-pointer feel superior because they'd never do anything quite that dumb. Well guess what, this is a forum for people who DID do something really quite dumb and yes, they're suffering the consequences. What's more, they know that. So what's the point in stating that they bought it on themselves..? i.e. the bleeding obvious? Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Our children's welfare should be our prime concern! If this means leaving a bad marriage so as to provide them with a stable, secure and peaceful environment, then, so be it. What about staying in a perfectly reasonable marriage for the sake of providing them with a stable, secure and peaceful environment..? This is exactly my MM's argument. He thinks he can pull it off, so... why not..? Why is he morally obligated to leave his marriage just because he loves someone else..? Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 What about staying in a perfectly reasonable marriage for the sake of providing them with a stable, secure and peaceful environment..? This is exactly my MM's argument. He thinks he can pull it off, so... why not..? Why is he morally obligated to leave his marriage just because he loves someone else..? Well, if the marriage is viable and the environment conducive to good parenting, then, whether he chooses to stay or leave is totally up to him. Frannie, I'm talking about dysfunctional marriages. Of course, he isn't morally obligated to do anything but what his conscience dictates. And if it is acceptable to all parties, and everyone is more or less happy with the situation, then, there really isn't a problem, is there? Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 What about staying in a perfectly reasonable marriage for the sake of providing them with a stable, secure and peaceful environment..? This is exactly my MM's argument. He thinks he can pull it off, so... why not..? Why is he morally obligated to leave his marriage just because he loves someone else..? This is exactly what I think... and why I don't want my MM to leave his family... His daughter adores him... His eyes sparkles when he talks about her... he is completely crazy about this child. I know he wouldn't mind leaving his wife... He likes her but is no longer 'in love' with her. She's the mother of his children... and probably his best friend right now... The best thing, for every one, in this case, (including me) is that he remains married.. and continue to be a good husband, a great father... and an amazing lover for me... Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 What about staying in a perfectly reasonable marriage for the sake of providing them with a stable, secure and peaceful environment..? This is exactly my MM's argument. He thinks he can pull it off, so... why not..? Why is he morally obligated to leave his marriage just because he loves someone else..? Well, if the marriage is viable and the environment conducive to good parenting, then, whether he chooses to stay or leave is totally up to him. Frannie, I'm talking about dysfunctional marriages. Of course, he isn't morally obligated to do anything but what his conscience dictates. And if it is acceptable to all parties, and everyone is more or less happy with the situation, then, there really isn't a problem, is there? Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Sorry about the double post! Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 This is exactly what I think... and why I don't want my MM to leave his family... His daughter adores him... His eyes sparkles when he talks about her... he is completely crazy about this child. I know he wouldn't mind leaving his wife... He likes her but is no longer 'in love' with her. She's the mother of his children... and probably his best friend right now... The best thing, for every one, in this case, (including me) is that he remains married.. and continue to be a good husband, a great father... and an amazing lover for me... I am completely in two minds about him leaving. Some days I think for heaven's sake... what good is this doing anyone..? I read time and again how children don't respond well to divorce at any age, so what is the point in waiting til they're older..? And when he wrote his own thread over on Separation and Divorce, the majority (possibly everyone?) wrote that if he no longer loves her (and he doesn't) and is only there because of the children, then he's doing her a huge injustice. And I feel that's the case... it seems wrong to be there, living a lie. But... ... he says he just can't do it. Can't pull the trigger, because what he would be doing is breaking up what's normal for the kids. Just an averagely bad marriage, that would have limped along just as it is now for years, probably forever, without me in the picture. I just don't think it's cut and dried. And since they're his kids, and it's his marriage, and I have no real clue what it's like there. Actually sounds a lot more peaceful than the family I grew up in to be honest... Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Well, if the marriage is viable and the environment conducive to good parenting, then, whether he chooses to stay or leave is totally up to him. Frannie, I'm talking about dysfunctional marriages. Of course, he isn't morally obligated to do anything but what his conscience dictates. And if it is acceptable to all parties, and everyone is more or less happy with the situation, then, there really isn't a problem, is there? Sorry, I didn't mean my post to sound antagonistic. I was just using what you said to make a point. Not arguing with what you put. Actually, I do feel that there is a lot to be said on the 'moral obligation' front for him leaving. From the point of view of his wife, she's basically being hoodwinked, and that's not nice. As you said "if everyone is more or less happy.." but she's really not. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I am completely in two minds about him leaving. Some days I think for heaven's sake... what good is this doing anyone..? I read time and again how children don't respond well to divorce at any age, so what is the point in waiting til they're older..? And when he wrote his own thread over on Separation and Divorce, the majority (possibly everyone?) wrote that if he no longer loves her (and he doesn't) and is only there because of the children, then he's doing her a huge injustice. And I feel that's the case... it seems wrong to be there, living a lie. But... ... he says he just can't do it. Can't pull the trigger, because what he would be doing is breaking up what's normal for the kids. Just an averagely bad marriage, that would have limped along just as it is now for years, probably forever, without me in the picture. I just don't think it's cut and dried. And since they're his kids, and it's his marriage, and I have no real clue what it's like there. Actually sounds a lot more peaceful than the family I grew up in to be honest... I don't know if I responded to that thread but I doubt I would have advised him to leave... If the wife has no clue and the marriage is, like you say, averagely boring but not necessarily unhappy...then why would he leave... no need, IMO, to hurt the children... It's a totally different story if the marriage is a living hell and the children are caught in the middle... each situation is different. Link to post Share on other sites
Hurt & Alone Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I'm not sure of your question either? I do understand that the OW suffers as does the BS, pain is pain and honestly, (I don't mean this rudely against anyone here, it's just plain common sense) but the difference is the OW/OM brought on that pain by having an affair with a MM/MW. Bottomline, everyone gets hurt. I agree that everyone gets hurt, but, the OW/OM brought on that pain by having an affair seems to be a one sided blame. There are many marriages where the W had no idea what was going on and was just truly wonderful to her husband so, there was no reason to go looking for someone else. But some marriages the BS did not live up to thier end of the m. Meaning have caused alot of turmoil within the marriage that the WS thought he could find someone else to be happy with but at the same time living up to thier obligations. Either way, the WS has to be blamed as well. They were the ones that strayed. Most OW/OM have no one that they are responsible to (exception children) and in many circumstances the OP has nothing to lose. I dont believe that they thought too much on how much pain this would cause the spouse, especially if the cheating spouse is telling the OP that the spouse truly would not care or whatever excuse they come up with. I will only speak from my personal exp here...I feel bad that the WS has pain bc her H cheated on her and he had never done it before in the thirty years and when he did it was with me. I will take my blame on the A but I also believe that her pain is more the result of his actions. If he did not want to be involved in A to begin with he would have never intiated it. I have my own thoughts about why he did this and why with me but, he still has more blame. Link to post Share on other sites
Tsuki no Michi Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 ^ I agree. I think it must be better for the kids to have 2 happy parents that are seperated than 2 unhappy ones together. Actually, a growing amount of research indicates that this is untrue. More and more studies are finding that as long as abuse is not present, children of all ages tend to be better off when the parents stick together, even if they are unhappy in the relationship. It's a sad fact, but kids of intact marriages, even those where the parents are unhappy together, tend to end up with better self-esteem, more confidence, and a generally better ability to cope with difficulty than those of divorced parents. The latter have a significantly higher rate of mental illness, especially depression and anxiety disorders than their peers from intact marriages. This also appears to affect adult children when relationships between parents fail, though not to the same extent. I think many adults would like this not to be the case, but our society is built around the value of an intact family. It is what we teach kids at an early age and what they come to expect, whether unconscious or otherwise. Is it possible to change this belief, this expectation we are ingrained with from day one? Perhaps, but it would require people be a lot more forgiving and kind during breakups than I see happening anytime in the near future. It is possible perhaps if both parents can work together to help their children through the difficulties of a separation that they may come out less harmed than otherwise. Unfortunately this is not the norm, Rather it is the exception. Until then out children will continue to be the unwitting victims of our actions. Anyway, just food for thought. TNM Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I don't know if I responded to that thread but I doubt I would have advised him to leave... If the wife has no clue and the marriage is, like you say, averagely boring but not necessarily unhappy...then why would he leave... no need, IMO, to hurt the children... It's a totally different story if the marriage is a living hell and the children are caught in the middle... each situation is different. Well yes it is averagely boring, but I do think they're both unhappy (though for different reasons). Bottom line is, he wants to stay there, because he thinks not divorcing right now is the best option for the kids. Oh, well I have no input in this so I don't know why I'm even bringing it up! Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Actually, a growing amount of research indicates that this is untrue. More and more studies are finding that as long as abuse is not present, children of all ages tend to be better off when the parents stick together, even if they are unhappy in the relationship. It's a sad fact, but kids of intact marriages, even those where the parents are unhappy together, tend to end up with better self-esteem, more confidence, and a generally better ability to cope with difficulty than those of divorced parents. The latter have a significantly higher rate of mental illness, especially depression and anxiety disorders than their peers from intact marriages. This also appears to affect adult children when relationships between parents fail, though not to the same extent. I think many adults would like this not to be the case, but our society is built around the value of an intact family. It is what we teach kids at an early age and what they come to expect, whether unconscious or otherwise. Is it possible to change this belief, this expectation we are ingrained with from day one? Perhaps, but it would require people be a lot more forgiving and kind during breakups than I see happening anytime in the near future. It is possible perhaps if both parents can work together to help their children through the difficulties of a separation that they may come out less harmed than otherwise. Unfortunately this is not the norm, Rather it is the exception. Until then out children will continue to be the unwitting victims of our actions. Anyway, just food for thought. TNM TNM that's exactly what I read about too when MM was talking about leaving. I tried to find research and send him information about how it really would be better for the kids if he left... but to be honest, the majority of what I found supported what you say here: i.e. if the parents can offer a stable situation, in which there's no violence, abuse, put-downs or unhealthy behaviour, then it is better for the children in the longrun for the parents to stay married. I hated to admit it when I found it, but it certainly was what the studies were showing. Link to post Share on other sites
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