Need to forgive

[j1986]

I will try to keep to the short version. About 2 months ago, I got definitive proof that my husband was having an affair. I say definitive because I had my suspicions before but he always managed to find an excuse (changed the contact name in his phone to a guys name, he was working over time, etc). When I confronted him, he cried and begged me not to leave him. The affair was going on for two years and when I found out I was 5 months pregnant with our first child. I'm still pregnant, btw, baby is doing fine. He said he would cut all contact with her, do counseling and be "100% honest" with me from then on.

I had my own affair about 4 years ago that lasted 2 months and was just a friends with benefits situation. Husbands affair was not a revenge affair because he didn't know about mine until after I found out about his.

We're in counseling. My affair was mostly done out of a sense of not getting to "sow my wild oats" in high school/college. He seems to be putting a lot of blame on me saying that two year ago, I got boring. I didn't want to have sex as often. Etc. So that's one of the things that is very hard for me to get past. I don't blame him at all for my affair and he blames me for his.

OK, this is the part that really made me seek out a forum and talk to some strangers. I found an email from her that said she loved him. I asked him about it a week ago (so after at least 6 counseling sessions and his promise to be honest) and he said it was no big deal, that was just her being weird that day. I'm an idiot. So I believed him. Yesterday, I was telling him about how optimistic I felt about our relationship and he said that he had one last thing he needed to confess. Him and his other woman had said I love you a lot to each other. But then they "broke up" for a few months and when they got back together in August, he never said it again because he knew that he didn't feel that way.

 

My issue is two fold. First. That he was still lying after he promised that he wouldn't. How do I know that really was the "last thing"? Second, his reasoning for staying with me despite the long term affair was that he loved me so much he couldn't see himself without me. But if he was able to "love" her as well, then just loving me doesn't seem like a good reason to stay with me. Especially given his blaming me for his affair to begin with.

 

I don't have the balls to leave him. I chose to stay with him because I do love him and he does seem like he's trying. So I guess I just need help getting past the fact that he told another woman that he loved her. Right now, if he tries to say it to me, I just get offended and distant.

 

If you read all of that, thank you. and thank you in advance for any advice.

[DbleBetrayal]

I'm so sorry you are being put through this. Especially while pregnant . You're husband doesn't sound remorseful at all, seeing that he blames the affair on you and is prolonging your pain by letting out the truth slowly. He must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy. Do you have access and passwords to all his online social media and phone. He lost those privacy privileges when he was screwing the other woman, while your carrying his baby, shocking.

 

For you to truly forgive him, one day , he has to show some signs he deserves to be forgiven, but going what I read here, he isn't at all. What is he learning in these marriage counselling sessions? What is your counselor achieving, if anything, I mean- for him to continue to say what he says? I mean the other woman just recently emailed him, saying she loves him... and he tells you "it's no big deal". Holy crap. You guys need a new marriage counselor.

 

For you to forgive him, he has to cut all contact with the other woman, and be a completely open book. He must answer all your questions truthfully and fully. He should be patient, gentle and understanding and accept full responsibility for his actions. He has to recognize when your struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you, and reassure you that you're not driving him away by doing the things that are necessary to heal.

 

And you need to be open with your feelings, and ask the questions that are important to you. Stop blaming yourself for his actions. You are in no way responsible. Continue checking up on him in order to let him rebuild trust.... but he sounds like a friggin douchebag at the moment.

Edited November 28, 2014 by DbleBetrayal

[Selfish]

It sounds to me like you are trying to show yourself as the better person. But you cheated. He may not have known about it so he can't use it as an excuse but the reality is you broke your marriage as well. You aren't the better person. Saying "I love you" is meaningless. Anyone can say that. Feelings change. I would say you better stop comparing your actions to his. Let him know he needs to own his own sh*t while you own yours. Without deciding who was worse. He said "I love you and cheated while you were pregnant" You cheated and hid it for a couple years making all that time a lie in his mind. Actually deal with both your infidelities and don't rug sweep. You may yet have a wonderful life together with the little one.

[DbleBetrayal]

It sounds to me like you are trying to show yourself as the better person. But you cheated.

 

True, you shouldn't have cheated OP. But you did. There was obviously problems in this marriage for a long time. However, you didn't make excuses for you're cheating, and lay the blame on him- you owned it and you came clean on your own. On the other hand, your husbands affair had to be discovered, and than he blames it on you. To top it off, he is still in contact with the other woman- and he has a baby coming. This isn't a competition on who can be the biggest arsewipe. This is your life. After 6 marriage counselling sessions, you'd hope you both were shown the skills on how deal with and try to overcome infidelity... but it sounds like a disappointing outcome.

 

Maybe get a better marriage counselor?

[j1986]

To Selfish: Yes, I did cheat as well but I'm not trying to make myself sound better. This is something that I am working on in counseling. The fact that I see his affair as much worse than mind was hindering progress. But I finally accepted that we both had a little side action. But I never said that I loved mine. And never would have.

 

He did not respond to the I love you email nor has he actually been in contact with her at all since I confronted him. he hasn't said I love you to her in over a year. And wasn't sure if he meant it at the time. I have to disagree with PP that said that saying I love you is just words. Aren't wedding vows just words too then? Or are all words just meaningless? Staying with someone for two years seems like enough to show that some emotions were attached.

 

Anyway, the counselor says that we are one of her most hopeful cases because when we're there we laugh and do our homework and she can tell that there is true love between us. She wants our next season to be the "forgiveness" session where we acknowledge our faults and ask our partner for forgiveness. But given this new information, if he asks, I would have to say no.

 

The first few sessions were spent mostly on opening up channels of communication and understanding our feelings. I guess I thought we were making progress because she seemed so hopeful. And everyone always says that this is a long process so I wasn't thinking like "we need to be fixed by now." So should we find a new therapist?

 

He has since given me full access to his phone, email and Facebook. He doesn't go out with friends unless I come along. And he is trying to be more open with his feelings. So that's why I feel like he is trying.

 

I guess the next step is telling him how I'm feeling. I did tell him that I felt utterly gutted that he could look at someone else and say that. But he still wants to snuggle and hug me even though I told him that I just couldn't be very lovey dovey with him until I had time to process this all. I need to tell him that he's not giving me the time I need.

[DbleBetrayal]

 

I guess the next step is telling him how I'm feeling. I did tell him that I felt utterly gutted that he could look at someone else and say that. But he still wants to snuggle and hug me even though I told him that I just couldn't be very lovey dovey with him until I had time to process this all. I need to tell him that he's not giving me the time I need.

 

It's up to you wether you get a new therapist. It seems you are encouraged by the progress, if not- yes get anther one. One that deals specifically with infidelity and reconciliation.

 

I can see how it would bother you that, not only did they screw, but they also exchanged "I love yous", strong feelings. He not only gave himself away physically to someone else, he gave his heart away. And that must really hurt. That's a big hurdle to get over.

 

He should understand you are hurting, and not smother you too much right now- but not to say that he should give you space- but acting all lovey dovey when you are feeling this way is not comfortable. I understand. It's alot of hurt to bear.

 

With her emailing him, have him respond to her in email, in front of you- in no uncertain terms, that he wants nothing to do with her and it was a big mistake and he is going to cut ties and work on his marriage. It's the friggen least he could do. After that, block her email, block her facebook, block her number on his phone. And just incase (knowing what he is capable of now) check to see if they are still blocked periodically.

 

I think you can still work on this. But, is he really still blaming you for what he did? Something tells me he is still taking the piss, according to your first post.

[AlwaysGrowing]

It seems that OW/women need to hear ily from the MM/man they are dating, to continue on in the affair/have sex. It is the price of admission, so to speak. So it is not uncommon for the MM to pay this price....because it is a low-cost price. It requires a nano-second of time, don't have to ante up any actions....and they get the "action" that they want.

 

Not all WW (like yourself) need to hear ily. Most OM (men in general), do not initiate the ily's as men generally don't require it for payment for sex.

 

You might have to consider how much importance you put on ily, as opposed to what that importance/value meant to your husband in regard to his AP.

 

Are you comparing apples to apples...or apples to oranges?

[j1986]

<p>This is a valid point and why I wanted outside opinions. He could have just been saying it to say it. He did say that it was a frequent occurrence for awhile. But I guess after the first time it gets easier to say. I might be harping on it so much because I am a girl and see it from the female perspective only. I feel like it makes him a supreme ******* that he could just say ily without any feeling behind it, but I guess that's a whole other kettle of fish right there. </p>

[j1986]

<p>Oh and Dblebetrayal, I didn't initially want to block anything because I felt that was the easy way out for him. It seems dumb now, but I was thinking that blocking her took away all the responsibility on his part whereas if she remained unblocked he had to work on not contacting her. Yeah. Writing it out sounds dumb. </p><p> </p><p>A lot of his blaming me starts off like "now, I don't want you to think this is your fault but..." or "I'm not blaming you but..." and the but is always something like "I wanted to go to a concert and you didn't want to go with me, so I went with her." After we discussed this "not blaming" but actually kind of blaming me, he decided that he needed individual counseling because he doesn't know how to communicate or what to do when he thinks that I'm being boring. I agreed to go out more often (I'm very introverted, in that i genuinely feel drained after hanging out with too many people). He hasn't scheduled anything yet, but I think that might actually help him. I will probably go in on my own at some point as well for the introversion and just trying to sort out my feelings. </p>

[DbleBetrayal]

<p>Oh and Dblebetrayal, I didn't initially want to block anything because I felt that was the easy way out for him. It seems dumb now, but I was thinking that blocking her took away all the responsibility on his part whereas if she remained unblocked he had to work on not contacting her. Yeah. Writing it out sounds dumb. </p><p> </p><p>A lot of his blaming me starts off like "now, I don't want you to think this is your fault but..." or "I'm not blaming you but..." and the but is always something like "I wanted to go to a concert and you didn't want to go with me, so I went with her." After we discussed this "not blaming" but actually kind of blaming me, he decided that he needed individual counseling because he doesn't know how to communicate or what to do when he thinks that I'm being boring. I agreed to go out more often (I'm very introverted, in that i genuinely feel drained after hanging out with too many people). He hasn't scheduled anything yet, but I think that might actually help him. I will probably go in on my own at some point as well for the introversion and just trying to sort out my feelings. </p>

 

 

Well, all that I can gather is- he had an affair for TWO years (two. years.) they exchanged 'I love yous', and he still places the blame of the affair on you, also tells you that you are boring; and she is still contacting him; and he hasn't told her the bottom line. Look, I don't know what to tell ya, but hey. The writings on the wall.

[jbrent890]

Did his affair start the same time as yours or after. From what it sounds like, his affair started because you weren't able to recommit to your marriage during or after your affair. Not to blame you for his, but it does show that keeping something like that to yourself inhibits your ability to fully give back to your marriage. This is why I always stress confession and not after you get caught. The good news is I remeber reading about a similar story to yours and the couple is fine 10 years after the fact. Right now your husband needs time to work out his affair. Also, I know this has been said, but now is not the time to throw stones. I'm sorry to say, but it sounds like it was your affair that started all this. When you guys argue, do not compare his to yours. Lastly, it kind of sounds like you guys got married a little too young. Not to put either of you down, but you both sound very immature. Both of your reasons for cheating just scream out childish behavior to me. Like everyone else on hear, I will definitely say a few prayers for you guys.

[j1986]

My affair ended 4 years ago and we were actually doing great. I recommitted to the marriage with vigor and we had two great years. Job stuff got in the way and I had to work 7 days a week just to make ends meet. That's when we started drifting apart. I was boring because basically every night was a week night.

 

I get what you are saying that my affair could have caused distance, but even asking my husband, he thinks that the year or so after mine was great as well.

 

He is 7 years older than me, but definitely on the same maturity level. We dated for about 4 years before getting married so it wasn't rushed. But, I was fresh out of college. So yeah, being too young is also a factor. I have faith that we will pull through I'm just having a down day.

[katielee]

Honey- you didn't have an affair because you didn't get to sow your wild oats. You did it because you were selfish and had no values. Go way back to the beginning and dig through this part- no matter WHO you end up with - and shore this up.

And I suspect he DID know that something was going on...

[j1986]

Honey- you didn't have an affair because you didn't get to sow your wild oats. You did it because you were selfish and had no values. Go way back to the beginning and dig through this part- no matter WHO you end up with - and shore this up.

And I suspect he DID know that something was going on...

 

I'm not quite sure how this is supposed to be helpful. Not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely reading and processing each response. Both my H and I know that selfishness is an underlying issue. But that's not the only issue so why would we only focus on that? My therapist agreed that sowing wild oats combined with low self esteem ("hey this new guy really seems to like me!") are the main reasons for my affair.

 

H works night shifts. I work day shifts. That made it easy for both of us to be sneaky. He was genuinely taken aback at my confession.

 

Anyway, I guess we feel like we've already covered the past and why the affairs happened a lot and we both don't want to dwell on that. We would rather move forward with creating better communication and a better marriage. So just going back over something that I've had four years to mull over doesn't seem super productive at this point.

[BetrayedH]

I'm not quite sure how this is supposed to be helpful. Not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely reading and processing each response. Both my H and I know that selfishness is an underlying issue. But that's not the only issue so why would we only focus on that? My therapist agreed that sowing wild oats combined with low self esteem ("hey this new guy really seems to like me!") are the main reasons for my affair.

 

H works night shifts. I work day shifts. That made it easy for both of us to be sneaky. He was genuinely taken aback at my confession.

 

Anyway, I guess we feel like we've already covered the past and why the affairs happened a lot and we both don't want to dwell on that. We would rather move forward with creating better communication and a better marriage. So just going back over something that I've had four years to mull over doesn't seem super productive at this point.

 

It really depends on whether the underlying issues (low self-esteem and having such a need for external validation that you tossed your personal standards) have been resolved. The fact that you chose continue to lie about your affair for years is a pretty big red flag that you've still got issues to resolve. Are you ready to live an honest and authentic life or do you just expect that from your husband?

[elaine567]

It really depends on whether the underlying issues (low self-esteem and having such a need for external validation that you tossed your personal standards) have been resolved. The fact that you chose continue to lie about your affair for years is a pretty big red flag that you've still got issues to resolve. Are you ready to live an honest and authentic life or do you just expect that from your husband?

 

I think that raking the coals of a 4 year old, 2 month FWB affair as opposed to the current 2 year "I love you" relationship of the husband, is a bit rich, or is somehow the OP the worse person because she is female perhaps to some on here?

 

I think as she has stayed for 4 years in this relationship after the FWB affair, and is at this moment pregnant, is a sign she is committed.

The same cannot really be said for the husband, sneaking around for 2 years and professing his love for another woman.

[j1986]

It really depends on whether the underlying issues (low self-esteem and having such a need for external validation that you tossed your personal standards) have been resolved. The fact that you chose continue to lie about your affair for years is a pretty big red flag that you've still got issues to resolve. Are you ready to live an honest and authentic life or do you just expect that from your husband?

 

 

See, I've been living an authentic life since then. To be honest, once I put that guy and the whole affair behind me, I never looked back. I feel like I made HUGE progress within myself. I don't need external validation and I realize that my self worth isn't tied to how many men want to sleep with me. I did what I had to do to fix it because I love my husband and wanted only him. I'm obviously in therapy too so I'm not saying that I'm perfect, but I didn't see it as "continuing to lie" once I had already resolved the issues. I guess I was just supposed to dredge it up years afterwards and just be like "its ok now, though, because I'm better"? I never felt like taking that risk and I see that not as a red flag, but as me fiercely wanting to hold on to my husband. I guess that's flawed thinking, but at the same time, I do feel like I have come so far and already shown that I am 100% committed to the marriage.

[j1986]

I think that raking the coals of a 4 year old, 2 month FWB affair as opposed to the current 2 year "I love you" relationship of the husband, is a bit rich, or is somehow the OP the worse person because she is female perhaps to some on here?

 

I think as she has stayed for 4 years in this relationship after the FWB affair, and is at this moment pregnant, is a sign she is committed.

The same cannot really be said for the husband, sneaking around for 2 years and professing his love for another woman.

 

Thank you for this. I am not trying to see either of us as the worse person (anymore because at first he was way worse in my head for just so many reasons). I honestly just wanted advice on getting past this pain so H and I can move forward. It seems like some people on here only want to point out my flaws while ignoring the fact that I'm still allowed to feel hurt.

Are there any boards in here that deal with double indefinitely? I feel like I am offending some of the betrayed spouses on here because I'm technically both wayward and betrayed.

[jbrent890]

See, I've been living an authentic life since then. To be honest, once I put that guy and the whole affair behind me, I never looked back. I feel like I made HUGE progress within myself. I don't need external validation and I realize that my self worth isn't tied to how many men want to sleep with me. I did what I had to do to fix it because I love my husband and wanted only him. I'm obviously in therapy too so I'm not saying that I'm perfect, but I didn't see it as "continuing to lie" once I had already resolved the issues. I guess I was just supposed to dredge it up years afterwards and just be like "its ok now, though, because I'm better"? I never felt like taking that risk and I see that not as a red flag, but as me fiercely wanting to hold on to my husband. I guess that's flawed thinking, but at the same time, I do feel like I have come so far and already shown that I am 100% committed to the marriage.

 

You sound so much like my wife, it's almost scary. My wife felt the same way you did, that was until I found out about her cheating a few years back. After her incident, she did everything in her power to be a better wife. However, the one thing she did not do was tell me. I'm sorry, I really did appreciate all the good she did over the last couple of years, but that person was not the woman I married. The woman I married died the day she decided to lie to me about her ONS. What I had was the person she presented herself to be. Even though I loved that woman, she was a lie. I'm glad I finally have my wife back, but it took me finding out about her secret to get her.

[AlwaysGrowing]

If you didn't self incriminate shortly after "working" on yourself, you missed a big step.

 

If we once, just once....give ourselves permission to lie/deceive/manipulate someone for our own gain (wanting to stay married), we reinforce that we are more important than our SO. That it is okay to trick our SO into staying married.

 

It is either okay to lie or it is not.

 

For many BS, being lied to for years..they feel robbed of choice. They feel tricked into accepting the infidelity. It can be harder to move forward as they now have years that they look back on as lies...and having their life stolen from them. They often wonder how their life would be today had they known. Would they not have bought this house, had more children, not invested in the marriage, could they now be happily moved on and in a happier relationship (often with someone else), would this now just be part their painful past?

 

Being committed to the marriage is not the same thing as being committed to being honest with your spouse...regardless of outcome.

 

Bottom line....you chose to control the outcome of YOUR affair by concealing that you cheated. You decided what consequences you were willing to accept. You robbed your husband of deciding for himself what consequences he felt were appropriate...the biggest one being divorce.

[elaine567]

It seems that to some on here, every infidelity should land in divorce, or some reconciliation deal which means that that the "innocent" BS is the most important partner, and that the usually female WS, needs to repent daily and exist on gruel and remorse till her dying day.

 

Men cheating? Well, she must have done something dreadful to him...

[jbrent890]

To answer your question OP, yes you do have the right to be angry. Both you and your husband do. However, I still sense a lot of comparison between affairs from you. That needs to stop. I'm a firm believer that there is no comparison once you cross that line. There is just the other side. Both of you are cheaters and both of you need to equally do your part to rebuild the marriage.

[SawtoothMars]

I think that raking the coals of a 4 year old, 2 month FWB affair as opposed to the current 2 year "I love you" relationship of the husband, is a bit rich, or is somehow the OP the worse person because she is female perhaps to some on here?

I think as she has stayed for 4 years in this relationship after the FWB affair, and is at this moment pregnant, is a sign she is committed.

The same cannot really be said for the husband, sneaking around for 2 years and professing his love for another woman.

 

Couple points. The two affairs are equally bad. Staying after an affair is meaningless... unless you confessed it. She did not, which is a HUGE strike against her character. Of course her husband had to get caught to confess... so I suppose maybe they are made for each other.

 

Professing "love" while in an affair is meaningless. The fact that it lasted 2 years is not.

 

See, I've been living an authentic life since then. To be honest, once I put that guy and the whole affair behind me, I never looked back. I feel like I made HUGE progress within myself. I don't need external validation and I realize that my self worth isn't tied to how many men want to sleep with me. I did what I had to do to fix it because I love my husband and wanted only him. I'm obviously in therapy too so I'm not saying that I'm perfect, but I didn't see it as "continuing to lie" once I had already resolved the issues. I guess I was just supposed to dredge it up years afterwards and just be like "its ok now, though, because I'm better"? I never felt like taking that risk and I see that not as a red flag, but as me fiercely wanting to hold on to my husband. I guess that's flawed thinking, but at the same time, I do feel like I have come so far and already shown that I am 100% committed to the marriage.

 

I don't think it is possible to put it behind you without actually dealing with it honestly. Now that you have it in the open... you have a good chance of resolving it. Your previous strategy was 110% self centered. It was designed to trick your husband into staying committed to a woman who had not been fully committed to him.

 

When your Husband essentially blames you for his affair... I think it comes down to the fact that deep down he knew you were not faithful. I've been a husband and experienced this sort of thing. You trust but your gut tells you different and then it eventually just eats away at your love and respect.

 

I think you guys can fix this and move forward mostly because you have a baby on the way. The first thing you BOTH need to do is forgive. Then you have to commit to brutal 'unselfish' honesty.

[elaine567]

However, I still sense a lot of comparison between affairs from you. That needs to stop.

 

Yes, both cheated, but one was a FWB relationship that lasted 2 months and the other was a romantic "love" relationship that lasted 2 years.

Who wouldn't compare the two? HOw can you just "stop" that?

Affairs where sex is the main or only motivation are easier for a BS to get over surely, than an affair where sex plus "I love you" plus long term cheating, is the main theme.

 

The husband didn't know about the wife's affair till after he had been found out, so a bit convenient to "blame" her now, NO?

[AlwaysGrowing]

It seems that to some on here, every infidelity should land in divorce, or some reconciliation deal which means that that the "innocent" BS is the most important partner, and that the usually female WS, needs to repent daily and exist on gruel and remorse till her dying day.

 

Men cheating? Well, she must have done something dreadful to him...

 

Affairs are designed to end marriages...that is why it is specifically named in grounds for divorce.

 

I think stats have more WH than WW, although women are quickly closing the gap.

 

Challenging someone to accept responsibility and all that that means has nothing to do with gender. It has to do with...what does accepting responsibility mean? Is it to stop the behaviour, without telling the truth....or is it accepting the consequences of ones choices. All of them.