Educated Women/Working women = less interest in men/less interest in dating.

[quietGuy13]

It seems to me that this is true.

 

Even if the women try to date, they often fail because they don't really want to give up anything in their career life.

 

They also always feel like competing with men so they don't want to be feminine or anytihing and they always feel like if they start dating that that is going backwards and giving up their power.

 

And many of these career/education women often end up; in their 40's or 50's going to dating sites cause theyspent all their youth in their careers.

[zengirl]

Most men seem to like a woman who has her own money, her own life, and her own career, IME. I've met many women who had careers and successful dating lives. This is not difficult to do these days. Perhaps you time-traveled to the 1970s or something?

[Philosoraptor]

It just depends on an person's priorities. Some are career oriented and put relationships on the backburner. Some find an equal balance and find ways to be happy with both aspects of their lives.

 

Find someone who's priorities are similiar to your own.

[Kamille]

Even if the women try to date, they often fail because they don't really want to give up anything in their career life.

 

True. I worked hard to get where I am and I love being here. Am not willing to sacrifice much. Hopefully I'll find someone here, who enjoys being with someone career-minded.

 

They also always feel like competing with men so they don't want to be feminine or anytihing and they always feel like if they start dating that that is going backwards and giving up their power.

 

Not true. I compete with men and women at work. In my social life, I'm nice, playful, sweet. In my romantic life, I love nothing more than to be made to feel feminine. I always feel alive and in power. Because I love my job, I'm generally happy, and willing to be happy for others when they achieve success and supportive of their goals.

 

And many of these career/education women often end up; in their 40's or 50's going to dating sites cause theyspent all their youth in their careers.

 

Maybe. So what?

[Ninjainpajamas]

I wouldn't say that's true from my experience, however I would say that these type of women have a higher standard for the type of men they will date.

 

And no, contrary to popular belief by sad single men, they do not only go after hot guys with a lot of money because those guys tend to be douchebags with no common sense, and their looking for men with intelligence and a different kind of appeal than just sitting pretty and being bland and uninteresting.

 

Think about it as a man and what you know about men and then look around you, If you were a woman would you be interested?

 

So for the type of girl who might want to be give "everyone a chance before judging, let's see If he really is douchey even though everything he does is!" they tend to be more "I'm not even going to waste my time with that"...and they don't expect you to be a complete idiot and moron, have some interest and appeal, and usually a more masculine quality to them.

 

Plus they're more independent, they'll do things on their own and more responsible in life, they don't wait or want a man to come in and do it for them...and their typically proud of their accomplishments and hard work, they know how much work they had to put in and they earned in. Does that mean they're bitches? not all of them (although some are and some people take that whole personal accomplishments way too far and think it entitles them to everything in this world) but of course there are some that fit the stereotype.

 

Yes, sometimes they don't all always worry about their femininity but that has a lot to do with because they don't feel their looks represent who they are as a person. They don't want to be recognized for their bodies and just as a pretty face, they want to be respected for what they bring to the table otherwise, they don't want to be judged by shallow qualities especially when It's a mans world.

 

However their confidence and self-respect is very appealing and attractive to me...even very sexy...so where as you see a stuck up woman dressed in a suit walking down the street that won't give any attention to two drunk jerks hanging outside the local bar whistling and hollering " Come on baybe, you think you're too good for this!" instead of soaking up the attention with her tiny shorts and breasts popping out..you might consider her a wannabe man, when I'd consider her a woman with self-respect.

 

So these women may be harder for the average guy to date, but unless they're being entitled snobs, with no respect for anyone but themselves and their little social circles because they their some kind of heiress for their accomplishments, I think they're entitled to being single and independent rather than bending to the will of the average guy just to drop the bar and lower the standards because he's a idiot and she doesn't need the confirmation from that guy to feel valued and validated, she's doing that for herself.

 

With that being said it's a rough generalization to say all these educated and working women are that way (even though I know you're not saying all, just a specific group of women) but personally some of the most good-hearted, giving, sincere and genuine women that I've met are very educated and hard-working and they completely don't fit the stereotype, but that's just from my experience...they were just as willing to give in a relationship, albeit much busier depending on their careers which for a guy like me is fine.

[RedRobin]

Even if the women try to date, they often fail because they don't really want to give up anything in their career life.

 

Define 'fail'.

 

Most women you are describing want the 'sacrifice' to be shared. Some men expect a woman to toss everything out the window for him... Some men think they are really bending over backwards and 'compromising' their 'manhood' if they put in 50/50 for some bizarre reason.

 

They also always feel like competing with men so they don't want to be feminine or anytihing and they always feel like if they start dating that that is going backwards and giving up their power.

 

Define 'feminine'. In my experience, it is the men who feel like they are 'competing' and feel their manhood is challenged if a woman makes more than him or has more education. Even if it is never a topic of conversation. There is an NPR story coming up next weekend on "Marketplace Money" talking about women who go on dates and downplay their income and education. Doesn't sound like they are trying to compete to me. Sounds like men projecting their insecurities onto women. If being around educated/career women makes you feel insecure, that is your problem. Not hers.

 

And many of these career/education women often end up; in their 40's or 50's going to dating sites cause theyspent all their youth in their careers.

 

.... and, that is somehow some kind of 'gotcha'?? What about all the men who were career minded in their 20's and 30's? It's ok for them to still be looking in their 40's-50's, but not women?

[PinkInTheLimo]

It seems to me that this is true.

 

Even if the women try to date, they often fail because they don't really want to give up anything in their career life.

 

They also always feel like competing with men so they don't want to be feminine or anytihing and they always feel like if they start dating that that is going backwards and giving up their power.

 

And many of these career/education women often end up; in their 40's or 50's going to dating sites cause theyspent all their youth in their careers.

 

This is such a load of crap and I wish that there would be a law which would forbid this crap.

 

- With so many men leaving their wives or long-time girlfriends it would be incredibly stupid for a woman not to invest in an occupation which allows her to be financially independent.

 

- In these insecure economic times, men should praise themselves lucky if their woman has a good income and knows how to pay a bill.

 

- And this is the biggest crap of all and makes me fuming: EDUCATED WOMEN DO NOT ENTER INTO COMPETITION WITH MEN, IT'S THE MEN WHO ENTER INTO COMPETITION WITH THEM!!!

 

I cannot count how many times men start to become quarrelsome as soon as they hear what my professional and educational record is (and I am not mentioning it to brag but if someone asks me what I do for a living I will not lie about it). They start to challenge and to provoke. Now they should know that educated women don't like their intelligence be insulted so if no matter who starts to say stupid things, they will correct them. Which BTW seems to be more respectful than just let someone utter BS.

A good deal of men seem threatened or intimidated when they meet an educated woman and feel the need to put her "in her place". Well such a man will have it coming of course.

 

When an educated woman dates she wants to have a relaxing time with a guy who appreciates her for who she is, education included. She wants to feel safe and she certainly does not want the hostility of a man who feels threatened in his masculinity just because she happens to have worked hard to get a degree.

 

- Has it ever occurred to people that women might spend a lot of time in their career as a consequence of being single. I can tell you that that is definitely my case. When I was approaching 35 I realised that finding a good relationship was difficult and that it was thus important to have my ducks in a row financially. I got a better job and a Masters degree, things which interested me less when I was 25.

We all try to find fulfillment one way or another. If you don't have the relationship you wish for, why not invest more in your career?

[Woggle]

Actually educated women these days marry more often and divorce much less than less educated women. It is nowhere near the love killer that both men and women think it is nowadays.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I wouldn't say that's true from my experience, however I would say that these type of women have a higher standard for the type of men they will date.

 

And no, contrary to popular belief by sad single men, they do not only go after hot guys with a lot of money because those guys tend to be douchebags with no common sense, and their looking for men with intelligence and a different kind of appeal than just sitting pretty and being bland and uninteresting.

 

Think about it as a man and what you know about men and then look around you, If you were a woman would you be interested?

 

So for the type of girl who might want to be give "everyone a chance before judging, let's see If he really is douchey even though everything he does is!" they tend to be more "I'm not even going to waste my time with that"...and they don't expect you to be a complete idiot and moron, have some interest and appeal, and usually a more masculine quality to them.

 

Plus they're more independent, they'll do things on their own and more responsible in life, they don't wait or want a man to come in and do it for them...and their typically proud of their accomplishments and hard work, they know how much work they had to put in and they earned in. Does that mean they're bitches? not all of them (although some are and some people take that whole personal accomplishments way too far and think it entitles them to everything in this world) but of course there are some that fit the stereotype.

 

Yes, sometimes they don't all always worry about their femininity but that has a lot to do with because they don't feel their looks represent who they are as a person. They don't want to be recognized for their bodies and just as a pretty face, they want to be respected for what they bring to the table otherwise, they don't want to be judged by shallow qualities especially when It's a mans world.

 

However their confidence and self-respect is very appealing and attractive to me...even very sexy...so where as you see a stuck up woman dressed in a suit walking down the street that won't give any attention to two drunk jerks hanging outside the local bar whistling and hollering " Come on baybe, you think you're too good for this!" instead of soaking up the attention with her tiny shorts and breasts popping out..you might consider her a wannabe man, when I'd consider her a woman with self-respect.

 

So these women may be harder for the average guy to date, but unless they're being entitled snobs, with no respect for anyone but themselves and their little social circles because they their some kind of heiress for their accomplishments, I think they're entitled to being single and independent rather than bending to the will of the average guy just to drop the bar and lower the standards because he's a idiot and she doesn't need the confirmation from that guy to feel valued and validated, she's doing that for herself.

 

With that being said it's a rough generalization to say all these educated and working women are that way (even though I know you're not saying all, just a specific group of women) but personally some of the most good-hearted, giving, sincere and genuine women that I've met are very educated and hard-working and they completely don't fit the stereotype, but that's just from my experience...they were just as willing to give in a relationship, albeit much busier depending on their careers which for a guy like me is fine.

 

NIP, you just earned the "Poster of the Month" Award on Loveshack in my book. I find it very encouraging to read this by the hand of a man. Even if there is only one man in the whole world who thinks like this, it means that there is hope.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Think about it as a man and what you know about men and then look around you, If you were a woman would you be interested?

 

This one made me smile. I'll think about it every time I start to doubt if my standards are too high.

 

Makes me think about a really overweight guy who wrote me on a datingsite. For the record, this man's weight was twice mine (I can't help but starting to imagine what such a difference will give in the bedroom ). I answered him that his being overweight was an issue for me. I specified that I did not expect a guy my age to have the same body as if he was 20 but nevertheless hoped for a partner who would do an effort to stay in shape. A couple of extre kilos would not be a problem. What I thought but did not tell him is that having a European size 36 (that's according to internet converters US size 8) myself, I think I have the right to expect to be with a guy with a normal BMI.

 

His reaction: "I actually was in doubt about writing you because I thought you were too skinny." So not his potbelly was the problem, I was the problem.

 

Those are the guys we have to deal with on datingsites...

[dasein]

I disagree that men worth knowing get competitive with women over careers this is a convenient rationalization rising to the level of platitude to avoid self-scrutiny and reflection as often as not IMO.

 

My only beefs with career women are the oft heard rationalization above and the rock wall expectation so many of them have of dating a man with a higher income. I have friends who are super cool, good looking, socially adept men who can't find relationships with women on par with them because they make under 50k a year. Sooo many women won't give them the time of day once the "so what do you do?" gets out there. Obnoxious, and ironic, in that both of the specific friends I'm thinking of are due to inherit millions of dollars in the very near future, just don't have it -now-.

 

The about faces I see where these two are concerned once it gets "figured out" who they are and who their family is in certain circles is disgusting and will give one a bad attitude about women generally because the change in treatment before and after is startling.

 

I have dated women who plainly looked down their nose at me because they made more money, made cracks about it, women are always the ones to bring this up and always the ones to whine about men being insecure, bunch of BS. Oh, but does that high income mean they share the costs of early dating? ROFLMAO, don't pick up the check and let the character assassination in the community begin in earnest. My income is not shabby at all btw.

 

That kind of "must make as much as me" thinking is ridiculous, snobby and superficial, and men don't have anything resembling that kind of expectation. It's especially absurd after a certain age when child rearing costs won't be an issue.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I disagree that men worth knowing get competitive with women over careers this is a convenient rationalization rising to the level of platitude to avoid self-scrutiny and reflection as often as not IMO.

 

My only beefs with career women are the oft heard rationalization above and the rock wall expectation so many of them have of dating a man with a higher income. I have friends who are super cool, good looking, socially adept men who can't find relationships with women on par with them because they make under 50k a year. Sooo many women won't give them the time of day once the "so what do you do?" gets out there. Obnoxious, and ironic, in that both of the specific friends I'm thinking of are due to inherit millions of dollars in the very near future, just don't have it -now-.

 

The about faces I see where these two are concerned once it gets "figured out" who they are and who their family is in certain circles is disgusting and will give one a bad attitude about women generally because the change in treatment before and after is startling.

 

I have dated women who plainly looked down their nose at me because they made more money, made cracks about it, women are always the ones to bring this up and always the ones to whine about men being insecure, bunch of BS. Oh, but does that high income mean they share the costs of early dating? ROFLMAO, don't pick up the check and let the character assassination in the community begin in earnest. My income is not shabby at all btw.

 

That kind of "must make as much as me" thinking is ridiculous, snobby and superficial, and men don't have anything resembling that kind of expectation. It's especially absurd after a certain age when child rearing costs won't be an issue.

 

I don't care if a man makes less money than me. As a matter of fact the chances of finding a man who earns more than me are rather small.

I do however want a man to have a good income because I don't want his income to be so low that it seriously decreases the quality of my life. I am by no means a snob (I don't have a car and my TV is 11 years old, my furniture is a mixture of cheap stuff I found on the attic and some newer things) but I want comfort in my life at my age. For example, when I travel I want to stay in a really good hotel. No more low-budget travel for me.

 

Another reason to want a guy with a decent income are the horror stories I have read here (SoSerious) and seen in real life about men marrying a woman who earns good money who then totally rip her off in a divorce. That is a very big fear of mine because I have seen such situations.

[Woggle]

Most men are not indimidated by successful and educated women. The women who always say that for most part are trying to cover up for a horrible personality and instead of looking at that use the excuse that they men are afraid of their strength.

 

I have seen women who have sugar daddies and in no way are independent claiming that men fear them because they are strong and independent.

[Woggle]

Another reason to want a guy with a decent income are the horror stories I have read here (SoSerious) and seen in real life about men marrying a woman who earns good money who then totally rip her off in a divorce. That is a very big fear of mine because I have seen such situations.

 

If women really wanted to change this they would join divorced men in trying to change the divorce court system in this country. For years this happening to men even if she cheated and initiated the divorce and it is starting to happen to women.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

My only beefs with career women are the oft heard rationalization above and the rock wall expectation so many of them have of dating a man with a higher income. I have friends who are super cool, good looking, socially adept men who can't find relationships with women on par with them because they make under 50k a year. Sooo many women won't give them the time of day once the "so what do you do?" gets out there. Obnoxious, and ironic, in that both of the specific friends I'm thinking of are due to inherit millions of dollars in the very near future, just don't have it -now-.

 

The about faces I see where these two are concerned once it gets "figured out" who they are and who their family is in certain circles is disgusting and will give one a bad attitude about women generally because the change in treatment before and after is startling.

 

I have dated women who plainly looked down their nose at me because they made more money, made cracks about it, women are always the ones to bring this up and always the ones to whine about men being insecure, bunch of BS. Oh, but does that high income mean they share the costs of early dating? ROFLMAO, don't pick up the check and let the character assassination in the community begin in earnest. My income is not shabby at all btw.

 

That kind of "must make as much as me" thinking is ridiculous, snobby and superficial, and men don't have anything resembling that kind of expectation. It's especially absurd after a certain age when child rearing costs won't be an issue.

 

Men don't have anything resembling that kind of expectation? Maybe not toward money but certainly toward body types and age. A lot of average guys want a gorgeous young hot babe. Alot of guys look down on women that don't fit into their personal physical requirements. And while some might disagree, I do not think women are as harsh on men and their looks as the reverse. Please stop acting like men don't have their list of shallow expectations.

 

I have dated men of all income levels. But sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't be more discriminating because of the attitudes of a lot of men about my own worth being tied to my youth and looks. And I will tell you what men tell me when I have mentioned this. Like looks, money draw the person in. That doesn't mean they will stay but it certainly opens the door.

 

I am left with the possiblity that when your friends inherent their millions, they will probably be dating younger, hotter women. While they lamenate the evils of their past dating history with women. Failing to see their own shallowness in the process.

[Jane2011]

I don't consider myself a "career woman" or emphasize that I'm an "educated woman" -- certainly I'm no MBA-holder in a business suit who out-earns every man she comes across -- but I do kinda have high standards as far as the guy's personality and background. There are tons of guys who fall below my standards or just basic type that I desire. I'm definitely interested in dating, though. I've never put career-success over personal happiness.

[dasein]

Men don't have anything resembling that kind of expectation? Maybe not toward money but certainly toward body types and age.

 

Nope, not even close to topical re: educated, working women, go find another playmate to grind axes with, not interested.

[mesmerized]

Educated women still need sex.

[Kamille]

I've never put career-success over personal happiness.

 

Neither have I, but career-success has brought its fair share of personal happiness. My job in and of itself is mostly delightful. I still can't believe I get to do this for a living.

 

Has it ever occurred to people that women might spend a lot of time in their career as a consequence of being single. I can tell you that that is definitely my case. When I was approaching 35 I realised that finding a good relationship was difficult and that it was thus important to have my ducks in a row financially. I got a better job and a Masters degree, things which interested me less when I was 25.

We all try to find fulfillment one way or another. If you don't have the relationship you wish for, why not invest more in your career?

 

My career and my romantic life have at times entered in conflict - generally under the form of a choice between staying somewhere to be with someone or moving somewhere to take advantage of a great career opportunity. I've always chosen career. It's easy for me to say, with hindsight, that none of the relationships I left behind offered the same kind of security my career does. But that's on me and the relationship choices I made. Generally, since my career was more important to me than romance, I overlooked a few red flags. Now that I'm settled, I trust I will make wiser relationship choices.

 

But I have no regrets. I really don't find the idea of never meeting the right man all that daunting. I can always come here and flirt with locals .

[dasein]

I don't care if a man makes less money than me. .

 

Good for you, and I don't mean that sarcastically, but lots of women do care very much.

 

As a matter of fact the chances of finding a man who earns more than me are rather small.

 

Well if this is true, will assume you make ~300k+ per year to make a statement like that, so in those circumstances, if a man did make 50k, what would be wrong with -you- paying for the nicer hotel rooms in the same way -he- would if the roles were reversed? This is where I get hung up on the "lifestyle" and travel excuses women make for demanding an equal income. Now if you are making 100k or so, you shouldn't have much problem finding a man who makes reasonably near that or more. But if you have a really high income, the "lifestyle" excuse wears thin.

 

One of the women I dated who looked down at me for making less than her made 500k+ per year. Her income was unstable and unpredictable, but that didn't stop her from lording it over me at every opportunity. She would always say how much she wanted to be the "woman" not the "man" in relationships, DESPITE that she had gladly taken affirmative action in education and in a male dominated career area where she got special treatment, recruitment even. She -gladly- accepted advantage in school and job slots and promotions men would have otherwise gotten, but now boohoohoo she just wants to be taken care of and be the woman (i.e. GET HER SH-T PAID FOR so she can afford to buy another luxury apartment).

 

I will spare the thread the string of expletives I want to type out right now... but this is not the only time I've experienced this particular type of career woman.

 

Another reason to want a guy with a decent income are the horror stories I have read here (SoSerious) and seen in real life about men marrying a woman who earns good money who then totally rip her off in a divorce. That is a very big fear of mine because I have seen such situations.

 

The answer to that, for men and women, is don't get married, unless you are absolutely commited to having children, not "avoid men who make less than my lofty income."

 

But I have to chuckle at the fact that unfair, discriminatory treatment in sh-tty domestic courts seem to become an issue for women, only when women start to make more and they are threatened with being trapped by a system that was "just fine" as long as men did all the paying into it. In other words, the domestic courts have sucked for a long long time, where were you all back then?

[zengirl]

Actually educated women these days marry more often and divorce much less than less educated women. It is nowhere near the love killer that both men and women think it is nowadays.

 

True that. A woman's education level, age, and income level at the time of her first marriage have a huge bearing on how likely divorce is. Higher is generally better, statistically (though peters off at the very high income ranges, likely just because there's not enough of a sample -- wouldn't be for men either).

[zengirl]

Speak for yourself.

 

I was speaking for myself. That's why I said "IME" which means "In my experience."

[mesmerized]

Speak for yourself.

 

Who wants a woman wrapped up in her laughable career. If your entire life is centered around kissing your bosses ass, you probably would make an awful wife and mother. Any woman who would put her day job over their spouse is not a good match for a man that wants a real family one day .

 

The white upper middle class/bourgeoisie family has maids, nannys, even negro women as wet nurses At the end of the day, all the money you earn ends up going into this false illusion of family or hearth of home.

 

You don't need to travel through time, just get out of places where everyone worships dog-eat-dog capitalism (trust me, its more archetypically American and British than anything else) and find a real woman.

 

I agree with her actually. Men DO care that you have your **** together as they should IMO. Perhaps this is our experience because we don't date insecure losers.

[GorillaTheater]

then you should have used sfmo. I might have just made that up but it means speaking for myself only.

 

In saying your experience its just a flowery way of saying thats how you see the world not necesarily implying your conclusion to yourself only.

 

nttawwt...

[zengirl]

then you should have used SFMO. I might have just made that up but it means Speaking For Myself Only.

 

In saying your experience its just a flowery way of saying thats how you see the world not necesarily implying your conclusion to yourself only.

 

Well, I'm speaking for what others (men I know) have told me and what I've seen in action (i.e. many career gals with happy marriages!). So, I guess I could say: SFWOHTM&WIHS (Speaking For What Others Have Told Me & What I Have Seen) but I like IME better.