Married, Separated or Divorced?

[carhill]

Recently, I wrote up a little missive and opened an as of yet pictureless dating profile and one of the simple questions on the profile got me to thinking.

 

I was given a choice of marital statuses: single, divorced, separated and widowed.

 

Well, I followed my first instinct, and selected divorced, but, upon reflection, I'm wondering about the consequences of that choice.

 

Conventional LS wisdom has taught me that women generally are not interested in dating a man who is still legally married, which I am. Don't date him until well after the ink on the papers is dry; that's what I read here.

 

My stbx and I chose to divorce amicably, so, rather than having a formal separation, we merely settled out our property, obtained separate domiciles, and are following Cali's rules for uncontested divorce, which has a mandated process and cooling-off period. So, even though I haven't lived with my stbx for nearly a year and we rarely communicate, and then only about divorce business, we're still 'married' until the court process is finished and we get a final decree.

 

I also read right here in the dating forum that it is poor form to talk about ex'es with dates, and that's a philosophy I agree with. So, mindful of that, how does one successfully communicate what I shared above and still remain true to that philosophy? Even sharing just the facts leaves openings for many questions and concerns, which is IMO where the gist of the philosophy comes from.

 

I could change my profile to 'separated', or I could choose to explain where I am in the divorce process, or I could refrain from meeting women until well after I'm legally divorced. Given that I waited until 35 to become sexually active, the last choice, at 50, isn't really appealing to me

 

So, for the ladies in my age group, say from 40-60, how do you feel about dating a man who is where I am currently? If you've been divorced/separated and your philosophy reflects that of the LS conventional wisdom, how did you manage your time and interest in opposite sex companionship during the process? TBH, since I've been emotionally detached for some time, in fact a couple years, I feel like I'm just 'wasting time' here; valuable months and years I won't get back. How did you deal with that? Remember to separate out the ego validation of men approaching you. A man, at least a 'normal' one, gets none of that. We do the approaching.

 

So, let's say I'm honest, disclose my stbx and I live separately and the divorce is amicable and will be completed on or about xxx, what would be your biggest fear or concern in dating me, assuming there was common interest and attraction? After identifying that fear/concern, what would you identify as clear and positive action to asuage it? Or, is it irreconcilable?

 

Hey, thanks for reading. Enjoy, after 13,000+ posts, my first topical thread on LS

[paddington bear]

I'm 3 years off the age-range stated, but here's my tuppence-worth:

 

Put separated, because that is the truth and because getting the third degree "Oh! But I thought you were divorced, but you aren't really" immediately starts you off on the wrong foot. Separated can indicate (to me anyway, divorced or awaiting a divorce, or that you have separated from a common-law marriage).

 

When and if a date or conversation or email exchange comes out of this dating site and the subject, simply state exactly what you've put here:

 

My stbx and I chose to divorce amicably, so, rather than having a formal separation, we merely settled out our property, obtained separate domiciles, and are following Cali's rules for uncontested divorce, which has a mandated process and cooling-off period. So, even though I haven't lived with my stbx for nearly a year and we rarely communicate, and then only about divorce business, we're still 'married' until the court process is finished and we get a final decree.

 

and add in: and the divorce will be finalised in xxxx date.

[angie2443]

I'm 3 years off the age-range stated, but here's my tuppence-worth:

 

Put separated, because that is the truth and because getting the third degree "Oh! But I thought you were divorced, but you aren't really" immediately starts you off on the wrong foot. Separated can indicate (to me anyway, divorced or awaiting a divorce, or that you have separated from a common-law marriage).

 

When and if a date or conversation or email exchange comes out of this dating site and the subject, simply state exactly what you've put here:

 

My stbx and I chose to divorce amicably, so, rather than having a formal separation, we merely settled out our property, obtained separate domiciles, and are following Cali's rules for uncontested divorce, which has a mandated process and cooling-off period. So, even though I haven't lived with my stbx for nearly a year and we rarely communicate, and then only about divorce business, we're still 'married' until the court process is finished and we get a final decree.

 

and add in: and the divorce will be finalised in xxxx date.

 

I think this is good advice:).

[InspiredbyYou]

Do not refrain from dating women if you are ready to date, however do not lie. I refused to date separated guys when I was doing OD because I found a few were only a few weeks out and SO not ready to date. But there are women who don't mind. Never lie, not even about your age or dating status, MAJOR turn off when the truth comes out and grounds for instant termination as far as I am concerned.

Then again I am tough.

 

 

 

I agree with paddington separated could mean a lot of different things, could mean "we just split up as we speak and I am messing around while I figure my life out, wanna be a casualty of my mess?" I would include that you are in the process of divorce and how many months out. That def helps putting it on your profile says: "I am not afraid to be honest" waiting for a girl to ask you how long means you could say any old thing.

Edited January 2, 2010 by InspiredbyYou

[Crazy Magnet]

I'm way out of the age range (30) but I say put separated as well. I dated way before my divorce was final since it went ON and ON, and I would date a man in the same situation.

 

In my mind, your marriage is over, the only thing remaining is a piece of paper.

[D-Lish]

Hi Car,

 

I will disregard a profile that says separated. My perception of separated is the same as "unresolved issues" or "unfinished business".

 

I feel this way because before my own divorce was final, looking back, I realize it was a tumultuous time for me. I thought I'd been ready to date- but I was still a tad messy. So I fully admit to having pre-concieved notions when I see that status on a profile.

 

I am divorced, quite a few years out- and I list my status as being single, because that is what I am! However, I will tell someone immediately that I was married and divorced if I choose to strike up a convo with them.

I resent the label of divorcee- it's so 1950's.

 

I just assume men in my age group have been married before- so all I care about is that they are single "now".

 

I guess it's a tough spot for you- if you say divorced, it's a lie, if you say separated, it might deter some people from pursuing something with you, but you can't say single because you aren't divorced yet...I guess you could say "prefer not to say"...but that implies you are in a relationship:eek:

[carhill]

OK, what I'm reading aligns pretty well with my reflection on this matter, so I changed my status to 'separated' and a reference to my stbx to 'soon to be' ex-wife, versus just ex-wife. I'll have to add specifics about a timeline. One lady my age has already expressed interest in the somewhat humorous title for my profile so I'll see if the changes affect that interest.

 

Here again I want to get beyond the cognitive of honesty and into feelings, because they are where attraction usually begins for most women.

 

I've always believed in and respected the following:

Never lie, not even about your age or dating status, MAJOR turn off when the truth comes out and grounds for instant termination as far as I am concerned.

 

Accepting that, I do note the reality of successful men and women being 'creative' with the truth and still maintaining that success because the balance of emotion and perspective is positive. I've noted, especially in my past, that I've fallen victim to that incremental truth on more than one occasion and the result was an unhealthy relationship. For lack of a better term, 'smooth talking' would be what I'd use to describe the dynamic. Along those lines, there was a fifth choice, one I neglected to mention, 'I'll tell you later', which could, especially with an attractive picture, serve the purposes of the person who relies on incremental truth for success.

 

So, accepting that women, viewing an online profile, are as superficial as men, when you see a picture of an attractive guy who writes an interesting profile, and see him being divorced versus separated, how does that affect how you feel? IBY has stated she will not date a separated man and one of her reasons being experience that they are 'not ready' to date. Any other opinions? IBY, could you expand on the 'not ready to date' part? I want to hear, from a woman's perspective, how I'm perceived as 'ready to date' because it is possible, even though I think I am, I'm really not. I certainly don't want to waste a woman's time. I do enough of that here

 

Here's an example:

I get these twinges of sadness when coming across a reminder of my marriage; stupid stuff, as stupid as a bag of oatmeal this morning, something which reminded me of fixing breakfast for my wife while we were married. I experienced similar sadness when cleaning out my mother's house and coming across items we shared when I was a child and later as an adult. Feelings of loss. The feelings are transitory; in other words, they don't linger. I don't think of my stbx when out with friends or generally when alone. She's not in my thoughts.

 

I've got a somewhat tougher question to ask, but will take it one step at a time

[paddington bear]

I agree with paddington separated could mean a lot of different things, could mean "we just split up as we speak and I am messing around while I figure my life out, wanna be a casualty of my mess?"

 

This is also true! Which I hadn't thought of.

 

I wish dating sites weren't so cut and dried, with their sporty, slim, curvy, carrying a few pounds blah blah BS. Why don't they have options on there like 'amicable divorce' or 'divorced but not f****d up from it and won't dump all my baggage on you'.

 

They force you to put yourself into a pre-defined little box, which is rarely the case particularly when it comes to relationships...we need more flexible dating sites than the standard, ones that shed far more light onto the personality and personal situation of the subjects - that's not to say that all people will take so much care as Carhill to walk that fine line between being honest and yet aware enough of others perceptions not to shoot himself in the foot.

[D-Lish]

.

 

So, accepting that women, viewing an online profile, are as superficial as men, when you see a picture of an attractive guy who writes an interesting profile, and see him being divorced versus separated, how does that affect how you feel? IBY has stated she will not date a separated man and one of her reasons being experience that they are 'not ready' to date. Any other opinions? to ask, but will take it one step at a time

 

I posted above your last post so I think you missed my take on it.

 

I think you have to say separated on your profile and then go on to write a short disclaimer (has to be short or else it's further proof there are unresolved issues, lol).

 

But for sure, when I see separated, I steer clear.

I have also dated a separated man in the past and it was a bad experience.

[carhill]

I will disregard a profile that says separated. My perception of separated is the same as "unresolved issues" or "unfinished business".

 

Thanks D; I appreciate that perspective. I missed it while typing. This is why I'm asking. See, to me, this is about compatibility. This is something I was woefully ignorant of the last time I dated and when I met my stbx. As my experience, though messy in the distant past prior to MC and separation, has been one of relative calm, I would view a separated woman from that viewpoint. Had my experiences been different, then I trust my perspective would be as well.

 

The transition I'm seeing now is from one of seeing incompatibilities as reminders of my stbx to one where they stand alone as part of my personal perspective. To me, that's the final stage of 'unfinished business', so, if I encounter them with a future date, it isn't 'reminding me' of my stbx and attendant memories of the failure of the M, but rather of personal boundaries of health wrt relationships. Like our MC always said, the past is the past. It is relevant as the past. Learn from it so as not to live in it

[paddington bear]

Neither divorced nor separated would bother me from the off-set (for me, I wouldn't make a distinction between the two - the emotional fall-out and baggage from the split is as bad whether you went through the marriage ceremony or not.)

 

Beyond that, what I personally would want to know: how many children from previous marriage? Amicable divorce/separation or bitterness, or 'we are still really good friends'?

 

Being best friends, lots of phone calls to chit chat with ex would be a major end it before it's begun red flag for me.

 

Kids would also make me wary in terms of the fact that it means that the ex is always in this man's life, therefore it's important to know what his relationship with his ex is if he has kids as she'll always be in the background of the relationship. If he HATES her I'm not sure I'd like that, amicable and polite would be perfect, super-great buddies who still share everything would not be acceptable to me.

 

Meeting someone and talking with them is the best indication as to whether they are over someone or not, people will meet you and know for themselves whether you are telling the truth or not regarding your readiness to date and to what extent you are over your marriage breakup.

 

And Carhill you will know yourself whether you are still messed up from your divorce once you get out there and start to date. If it starts to feel uncomfortable or wrong for some reason you'll realise you need to wait a bit longer.

 

And of course how much of that sadness over porridge etc you mentioned - that to me seems normal as opposed to a total hang-up on your ex, or messed-up-ness from your divorce. Even if things don't work out and when it's for the best to split, doesn't mean we don't feel sad. You are allowed to periodically mourn what once was, even if you are essentially happy and satisfied in the present.

[InspiredbyYou]

Carhill I so appreciate everything you have written it is tough, I can only imagine how tough it is for you not to have to think of what you had. For bad or worse, you did have a life together, you did share so much together that is the truth of your past. I do empathize with that. I think that to a certain degree what you described is normal, you miss the good moments of what you had. Am I reading that right? Totally understandable.

 

But having said all that, you are pretty far along in the recovery chain, you are not one month out and looking for reassurance that what you actually want is to go back home and salvage the marriage before it gets to the stage of divorce. I feel there are a lot of broken hearts online on dating sites of men who are just out of a relationship looking for excuses to push them back. A divorce, at least in my head, signifies "there is no going back"

 

I get the sense you are questioning in a roundabout way, if you are indeed ready emotionally. And that is fair and good of you to question that since you can only know so much about how you feel or how ready you are, you know you are out of the dark but are you really ready for love? I think the only way to know that is to go out there and date and see how you feel see what this stirs up in you, that will be your only guide. I see nothing wrong with trying to figure things out as you go along, the problem only lies in not being honest about your status. There might be women out there going through the same thing and wanting to experiment too. I know when I was fresh out of my last relationship I was very hesitant to get involved again, I almost welcomed someone who was emotionally closed off somewhat because I knew that would create less pressure for me to have to give of myself emotionally. But the truth was I was always honest with guys, if friends is all I needed at the time then friends it was. I would always give men the option to choose, then I felt the burden was off my shoulders. Stating separated on your profile might make it a little harder to meet women (assumption!?!? I don't know that for fact) but the burden is off your shoulders.

 

By not ready to date I meant the body is not only still warm, it is actually not even dead, if you know what I mean! Some guys are just testing the waters, separated to me means "testing the waters" and while we all test the waters when it comes to dating and new relationships to have the added pressure of knowing there is an angry ex-wife and major divorce issues lingering on the horizon is a little too much baggage, for an otherwise happy-go-lucky single such as myself. That was my attitude at the time. When I heard my guy had been out of his divorce for three years and had already had a long term relationship in between, it was a sigh of relief for me, since I knew I ran much lower risks of becoming the proverbial "rebound" girl.

 

Again, perhaps my thinking was unfair and I sort of painted all guys with the same wide brush who fell under the "separated" category, but after you've been through a few heartaches in your time the last thing you want to do is enter into a situation that had the added potential of ending in heartache, before it's even begun. Online makes you think of the whole picture more unfortunately, where as if you had met someone by chance who really captivates you, you might throw a little more caution to the wind.

[D-Lish]

I think in your case you will end up having a small discussion about your situation on a date, but I would keep it short and definitive that it's over.

 

I notice in some of your above posts that you mention subtle sentimental reminders... I wouldn't mention that to a date, lol.

 

If I met a separated guy in person, not online, he might have a better chance because I could get a better read on him. I would still be super skeptical though.

[InspiredbyYou]

 

I feel this way because before my own divorce was final, looking back, I realize it was a tumultuous time for me. I thought I'd been ready to date- but I was still a tad messy. So I fully admit to having pre-concieved notions when I see that status on a profile.

 

 

I have to agree with everything D-lish said!

 

My current boyfriend said something very similar to this just recently, he said looking back for the first year and a half I became a recluse and I was in no shape or form ready for any sort of dating, I was also quite antisocial. There is no way I could have entered into anything even remotely healthy during that time. His last relationship also included a lot of battles with his g/f over the divorce settlements, she meddled in his decisions over assets (yikes how tacky!) a lot and there was a lot of friction because of this. He had to fight big battles in his divorce especially where it concerned the children and it was not pretty, I am just glad that was not me going through that. I think that would be a surefire way to ruin a good relationship.

 

Not all divorces are as messy as what I just described but I think it is inevitable to get sucked in one way or another if there is trouble.

[ordinary_girl]

Here's an example:

I get these twinges of sadness when coming across a reminder of my marriage; stupid stuff, as stupid as a bag of oatmeal this morning, something which reminded me of fixing breakfast for my wife while we were married. I experienced similar sadness when cleaning out my mother's house and coming across items we shared when I was a child and later as an adult. Feelings of loss. The feelings are transitory; in other words, they don't linger. I don't think of my stbx when out with friends or generally when alone. She's not in my thoughts.

 

no, this doesn't mean you are not ready to date. I went through the same thing in my early 30s, it took me a long time to get over my separation, it took us 6 years to divorce, it was amicable but we both struggled with the concept. It wasn't because we loved eachother so much but because we had that loss of innocence. I met my ex husband when I was 21 years old (he was 26) and when we separated after 9 years together it felt like I lost a part of my life I will never get back. My sadness related to that.

 

Yes similar to clearing out my father's house when he died.

 

I loved men since, some more intensely than my ex husband. Yet I am still sad that I hurt and lost the boy I met when I was 21.

[2sunny]

bottom line is - if the guy LEADS with a lie - he's out... for me.

 

you are a very insightful man who can translate things eloquently. this will come in handy as long as you stick with the truth. i hope you find a gal worthy of appreciating your level of emotional courage.

[InspiredbyYou]

One more thing Carhill, don't take this the wrong way and I meant to comment this before in reading your posts, but why do you refer to your ex as your stbx? If you are indeed separated and you are on your way to divorce you might as well start referring to her as your ex. Don't you think?

 

Believe it or not the language we use is a good indicator of where we stand emotionally. If I heard a guy I was dating refer to his ex as "soon to be ex" or even worse his "wife", that to me would be a bit of a red flag. I would wonder how attached he still is to the notion of what they had.

 

For me these were key signs that tipped me off, then I again I did say I am tough!

[RedDevil66]

I met my BF on a dating site. He put that he was divorced and he wasn't. When I met him, I was not all that into him but we became friends and hung out (no sex).

During this time, he told me he was only separated and not officially divorced but had not been with his ex wife for 6 yrs.

He still refuses to get an official divorce claiming it's because of finacial reasons.

Him and his ex share 2 kids and are not friendly but are polite with one another.

 

I say put that you are single, because you are. Women in their 40's and 50's are big girls and can take a separated guy :-)

 

Good luck with the dating :-)

[InspiredbyYou]

 

I say put that you are single, because you are. Women in their 40's and 50's are big girls and can take a separated guy :-)

 

 

 

Then if they are big girls who can take a separated guy why do you have to lie to them?

He is not single, he is separated.

A person who was never married and not attached to anyone is single, he is not.

[carhill]

OK, changed the profile and updated the lady who had sent a nice e-mail which I had not yet responded to. Thanks for the input.

 

I'll continue the discussion presently. Be prepared for more complexity

 

OH, IBY, I refer to her as my 'stbx' because we're still legally married. I don't know the protocols in that area. I presumed them to be similar to the delineation between separated and divorced on the dating site. The difference between the way I described her here and there is part of what prompted this thread

 

I must say, for myself, it is so much more pleasant approaching dating at 50 than 15-20 years ago. I enjoy the company of women and, now, having been married and done that, my perspective and expectations are vastly different and much more relaxed than when younger. Perhaps 'fun' is too naive of a word, but I think it can be a positive influence.

[RedDevil66]

Then if they are big girls who can take a separated guy why do you have to lie to them?

He is not single, he is separated.

A person who was never married and not attached to anyone is single, he is not.

 

I disagree, anyone who is not in a relationship is single.

[2sunny]

 

I say put that you are single, because you are. Women in their 40's and 50's are big girls and can take a separated guy :-)

 

Good luck with the dating :-)

 

single? he's no where near single... a lie is a lie. IF he intends to attract a gal equally as amazing as he presents to be - he should not start it out with a lie. i have dumped plenty of awesome men for this reason alone. if they are willing to lie about details - they will also justify a lie in other more important areas. my trust level automatically goes to zero and my instinct says get him away immediately... he can go lie to someone else who is willing to settle for lies.

[InspiredbyYou]

I disagree, anyone who is not in a relationship is single.

 

 

If he can't elope at the drop of the hat and have a shotgun wedding he is 100% not single!(not trying to marry you off again Carhill!)

Look up the meaning of single please, just because you lie to yourself does not change the actual meaning of the word. Single means unmarried, he is still married.

 

Glad you see the difference Carhill, all the best in your dating ventures. Can't wait to hear how it goes, times have a'changed that's for sure!

[carhill]

Here's a post from Alpha's whacko, nut-job thread to kind of indicate where my stbx and I are. I saw the hundreds of minutes and the texts on our cell records from stbx's activities, presumably with a man, and reacted as posted. Paid the bill; wondered why she'd go to the expense and effort to change her number, and was otherwise not interested. Not jealous.

 

The last is something else I'm resolving (not being jealous of stbx) because that same lack of jealousy occurs in another, much more long-lived and intensely felt relationship which could impact dating greatly. At this juncture though, I think my best bet is to go with the real, be honest, and see where it takes me. The advice of LS'ers, in the past, to not over-think things is ringing in my ears.

[RedDevil66]

single? he's no where near single... a lie is a lie. IF he intends to attract a gal equally as amazing as he presents to be - he should not start it out with a lie. i have dumped plenty of awesome men for this reason alone. if they are willing to lie about details - they will also justify a lie in other more important areas. my trust level automatically goes to zero and my instinct says get him away immediately... he can go lie to someone else who is willing to settle for lies.

 

I'm not as rigid and would not look over an "awesome man" because he told some little white lie on a singles site.

Everyone tells little white lies.

Now if he was married and saying he was single, then yes, buh bye. but he's divorced and puts single so he's not worthy? Meh, too rigid

The dating pool is small enough after 40