I am an idiot - longish rant

[moimeme]

Here's a delightful read to perk you up this Christmas season - not!

 

I have been a relationship for two years with a mass of issues (his). He has ADD, Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Avoidant Personality Disorder, dyslexia and all the childhood ridicule and rejection which comes with it, and then he was in two abusive marriages - the first with a sociopath (no, really - she beat and/or killed some of her pets besides him).

 

I'm burned out to a cinder from dealing with all the behaviours that all of these conditions cause. Meanwhile, he insists he's a 'good guy'. He's not abusive, he doesn't have any substance abuse problems, he's faithful, and he's a good father to his four kids. However, due to his conditions, he's selfish, lacks empathy, and is argumentative and uncooperative most of the time. Not only that, he thinks I'm nuts because his behaviours are upsetting me badly. He says I have an anger problem! I tell him there's a chapter in an ADD book called something like 'I bet I can make you scream, cry, or throw things' but he still feels the blameless victim. He says he'll get formal diagnosis and treatment - but he'll be out of town for six months where that can't be done.

 

He has made some changes; he's less obsessive about some of the things he used to be, so it appears he is not totally incurable, still, I don't have any family, I'm in a new town, and we've both been jobless for a while (me mostly because I no longer have the energy to look for work.)

 

Here's me trying to be a good person and help him and support him with all his stuff but I seem to have extended all of myself and then some and I'm totally out of steam. The little kids are coming on Friday for eight days. I'd rather go hole up in a hotel and hide till he goes away to his new job but I can't.

 

Nothing I read says that relationships with people with disorders have a bright outlook. Quite the contrary. I wanted to beat the odds and help this poor guy out. However, I think I'm an idiot. I think I'm trying to do the impossible - and who the hell am I to accomplish what, seemingly, nobody else has?

 

If anybody has a crumb of a positive story to toss me to persuade me that all my expenditure of self hasn't been in vain and that there is some hope, please toss it now. Just pitch it in the general direction of the black hole at the end of this note, where I'm currently residing.

[Tony T]

YOU WRITE:

 

1. "I think I'm trying to do the impossible - and who the hell am I to accomplish what, seemingly, nobody else has?

 

Yes, who the hell are you to do that???

 

2. "If anybody has a crumb of a positive story to toss me to persuade me that all my expenditure of self hasn't been in vain and that there is some hope, please toss it now."

 

Sorry, not only do I not have a crumb of a positive story but I have a multitude of nightmares I can share.

 

Dealing with somebody with only one of these disorders can be impossible. This guy has an entire salad of problems. What has happened is that you have developed a codependent relationship which is always highly dysfunctional. I know you have a big heart and you've probably remained in this either out of guilt, because you thought things would get better, or a combination of guilt.

 

In psychology, this syndrome is called entrapment. Many people don't leave jobs, relationships, or other situations because they always feel if they do...tomorrow is when it would have gotten better. This never works. The tomorrow hoped for never comes.

 

Get out now....deal with the guilt....deal with whatever. This relationship is already destroying you and draining you of much needed energy you need to work, support yourself and get back into the stream of a happy life again. You are not obligated to be a caretaker for this man with all the problems.

 

If you'd like to read more about codependency, go to http://www.google.com and enter "codependency" in the subject field. You'll be reading for years.

[moimeme]

Dear Tony,

 

I truly appreciate your kind reply and your concern. On the subject of codependency, though, I have to differ. I have checked out the 'symptoms' lists on several occasions. It ain't me.

 

Me, I believe the Christian stuff about giving to others. I always thought that the line from Tale of Two Cities was beautiful and noble 'tis a far, far better thing I do'... We don't call Mother Teresa codependent, do we? Of the whole list of symptoms, I plead guilty to 'anticipate others' needs' but that's it. I just happen to believe that we're on this earth to help each other out and I don't have kids or any other reason not to give a friend a hand.

 

I've been the 'leanee' for a lot of friends. I've helped people with their relationships and marriages, helped two people figure out their careers, and helped more than one fellow (including this one) improve his self-esteem. They asked for help, I gave it, and they were happy and grateful for it!!! Now, if people had gotten mad at me helping them, I'd have had the good sense to quit so I'm really not the compulsive overhelper that codependents seem to be. It appears that codependents lose themselves *in* the object. I have, indeed, given up too much *for* him, but that was in the mistaken theory that greater effort on my part would result in more rapid healing for him.

 

Make no mistake, he has changed in several ways and he feels bad that he's 'unlovable', as he puts it.

 

But that's moot. The more I learn about people with these disorders, the more I worry. Are they just to be discarded and rejected by everybody? Is nobody supposed to help them? If everybody abdicates responsibility for others, then where will we be? Oh, a whole bunch of totally self-fulfilled, selfish people, no?

 

You say you only have nightmare stories - is that good enough for you? Sorry to challenge you, here, but what do you tell people with friends and relatives who are alcoholics, drug users, or mentally ill - especially when they do say they want to get treated?

 

If we're not 'our brothers' keepers', then what use are we?

 

Why do you only have 'nightmare stories'? Did the people want help? I can see if they refuse it, but what if they want it - then can they be helped? This is what I need to know.

[midori]

Originally posted by moimeme

I truly appreciate your kind reply and your concern. On the subject of codependency, though, I have to differ. I have checked out the 'symptoms' lists on several occasions. It ain't me.

 

... I just happen to believe that we're on this earth to help each other out and I don't have kids or any other reason not to give a friend a hand.

 

... It appears that codependents lose themselves *in* the object. I have, indeed, given up too much *for* him, but that was in the mistaken theory that greater effort on my part would result in more rapid healing for him.

 

I too am wary of the term "co-dependent," as it's often misapplied -- or implies that people in relationships aren't supposed to rely on each other at all. But as you say that you have given up too much for this guy, so where is the boundary between that and losing yourself in the process of saving him? Right, you're not dependent upon him, I get that. But it does sound like you're a little too invested in helping other people, despite themselves.

 

I have those tendencies. They are qualities that have won me some loyal friends. They have also gotten me into situations where I was miserable for a long time and unable to recognize it, without doing anyone a lick of good.

 

But that's moot. The more I learn about people with these disorders, the more I worry. Are they just to be discarded and rejected by everybody? Is nobody supposed to help them? If everybody abdicates responsibility for others, then where will we be? Oh, a whole bunch of totally self-fulfilled, selfish people, no?

 

Actually, no. Again, I hear what you're saying. But you are also implicitly saying that people with problems like that don't know any better, they aren't able to make their own choices, and that you know what's best for them. That's a lot of rather God-like responsibility to take on, and it's probably not going to work out the way you anticipate.

 

Friends and family of drug abusers and alcoholics can attest to the fact that it's not a matter of doing for the person in question. It's about standing by them, letting them make their choices, supporting them as they struggle with the consequences of their choices, and hoping for the best. You can't take over someone else's life. My sister's husband's brother is a heroin addict: he's been through several recovery and relapse phases. He is a drain on his family's resources, both financial and emotional. His parents are slowly, slowly learning that they have to distance themselves from him, and not allow him to be a central part of their lives, because he would destroy them along with himself if they did. They know that they cannot save him, he has to do it himself. They know that it will be a long and arduous process, and that he will need their support. They want to be able to be there for him when he really needs it, so they've withdrawn from him somewhat so that he doesn't burn them out. They're his parents, it's a tie that cannot be undone.

 

Why do you only have 'nightmare stories'? Did the people want help? I can see if they refuse it, but what if they want it - then can they be helped? This is what I need to know.

 

I was involved for a few years with a man who claimed he wanted to have the things that I represented to him: security, trust, enduring love, family. He had a lot of issues that prevented him from being able to believe in those things, or to step up to the responsibility of being a partner, let alone a parent. But he said that he wanted them. A couple of times I was ready to call it quits because it was clear to me that he was no closer to being where he said he wanted to be (and where I wanted him to be) than when we first started seeing each other. He begged me not to leave him, he said he just needed more time. I gave him more time. In the end he completely sabotaged our relationship, sobbing and crying as he did so, moaning that he had no one to talk to about what he was going through in the aftermath of our final break-up -- because I was the only person in his life he could talk to about such things.

 

Did this guy want help? Yeah, in a way. Was he prepared to actually do the things he would need to do in order to make significant and lasting change in his life? No. Not at all. I believed for a long time that he was capable of making those changes, especially if he had me in his life. I would be the context for change. And he seemed to want that too. But it never improved.

 

Having your life intertwined with someone you're trying to help is a risky proposition, for several reasons:

 

1. they might never get better (as you're discovering)

2. the ultimate cost might be too much for you (as you're discovering)

3. if they do improve while they're with you -- perhaps directly because of your efforts -- they will have to move forward as your junior partner, the one who had to be saved. That's the kind of thing that can cause a lot of resentment, whether or not it's reasonable. If you're expecting gratitude you might be in for a rude surprise. Or, if they are genuinely grateful, they may be embarrassed and unable to handle being with you anymore because they feel you'll always be superior.

4. if things improve and you manage to side-step the resentment, you'll find yourself with a changed relationship on your hands, one that requires you change your role vis a vis your partner. You can't always be the knowing one anymore -- can you surrender that, and accept your transformed partner as an equal?

 

Being there for other people is great. Letting them know that you're ready and able to help if, and as, needed is a wonderful gift to give your loved ones. But it sounds like you've crossed the line from being a caring & helpful partner to being a martyr. If this guy is driving you up the wall then it's time you were out of there. You're not doing him any good, and you're certainly not doing yourself any good.

[Tony T]

Your reply to me is proof positive that you are in a co-dependent relationship...and really bad.

 

YOU ASK:

 

1. " Sorry to challenge you, here, but what do you tell people with friends and relatives who are alcoholics, drug users, or mentally ill - especially when they do say they want to get treated?"

 

I don't tell them anything. If asked, though, I would refer them to agencies with expertise in giving this kind of help. Most often, friends and relatives have become enablers, which is part of the co-dependency thing. Enablers just lengthen the process by which the diseased person realizes they need help. It usually takes a very long time before most people decide they've had enough and want to get help. Enablers make it easy for them to stay where they are.

 

2. "If we're not 'our brothers' keepers', then what use are we?"

 

Being our brothers' keepers is a matter of degree. As midori stated above, there are boundaries. You do another no good whatsoever if you are so much a part of their lives that they have no motivation to live it or improve upon it themselves. Playing God is very dangerous business.

 

I hope you will pay attention to midor's reply above. She's been in a place similar to yours. It never works. And there are no medals, no honors, no prizes for going through the BS of trying to straighten somebody else.

 

Why didn't you just say in your original post that you wanted some praise and kudos for sacrificing the quality of your life for another? I wouldn't have responded. There are doctors and counsellors trained to get people like that back into productive lives. You are not qualified to do that.

[moimeme]

Originally posted by midori

But as you say that you have given up too much for this guy, so where is the boundary between that and losing yourself in the process of saving him?

Quite right - I didn't notice when I crossed that boundary and I'll definitely have to be more aware of that henceforth (in everything I do).

midori

Actually, no. Again, I hear what you're saying. But you are also implicitly saying that people with problems like that don't know any better, they aren't able to make their own choices, and that you know what's best for them.

Oh, heck no!!! We were having troubles with the relationship. I went hunting for information to try to help us - or me, if I was the problem. To make a long story shorter, he blamed some of his behaviours on dyslexia - but that didn't jibe with what I read. Then I found out that the behaviours *were* congruent with ADD so I told him about it after doing quite a bit of research. Remember - he's dyslexic; researching information is such an arduous task - and it's what I do for a living - so I did the looking for him. He was interested and said he wanted to be diagnosed and treated. I researched treatments (also found out that our problems are typical of those for couples in which one is ADD). Still, some of the issues persist and are, indeed, driving me crazy. I did some more research and that's when I found the other disorders.

 

I've got heaps of notes and links on this, but make no mistake, I had and have ZERO intention of 'treating' him. All along, I have been trying to figure out how to cope with him until he can get the treatment over with. In the process, I have learned a great deal about what isn't known about these disorders and I'm committed to working towards better public knowledge because of it. I also know there are precious few resources for people like myself who are trying to support people like him.

 

midori

Was he prepared to actually do the things he would need to do in order to make significant and lasting change in his life?

That, for me, is the deal-breaker. If he was flatly refusing to get treated at all, then I'd ditch him in a flash. The only thing he's really balking at now is the Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder - a sticky one, from all I've read. Unfortunately, it causes the worst problems. I keep figuring this can't be much worse than living with someone with mental illness but I'm having a heckuva time finding out *how* people live with mental illness; or rather, I understand the theory but I'm not very successful at not taking the disorder stuff personally.

 

midori

2. the ultimate cost might be too much for you (as you're discovering)

If people live with people with Alzheimer's or other brain problems, why not me?

midori

 

4. You can't always be the knowing one anymore -- can you surrender that, and accept your transformed partner as an equal?

Truly, I can't wait. I never wanted kids because I didn't want anybody to need me that much. I badly need and want a partner, not a subordinate.

midori

Being there for other people is great. Letting them know that you're ready and able to help if, and as, needed is a wonderful gift to give your loved ones. But it sounds like you've crossed the line from being a caring & helpful partner to being a martyr. If this guy is driving you up the wall then it's time you were out of there. You're not doing him any good, and you're certainly not doing yourself any good. ?

 

Yes, but what if he had ALS or some other 'difficult' disorder? I think it's a character flaw that I can't separate myself enough from his behaviours to not let them bother me. That's supposed to be the ticket to be able to handle people like him but I'm terrible at it. I asked my original question because I keep thinking that if I can figure that this situation is only short-term, I will be able to deal - which is why I wanted to know what the prognosis might be.

 

The good news is that he's going away to a remote community to teach for six months. He plans to work on himself while there. I'm going to give him my best references. I told him that there was hard work ahead and it was his decision to do it or not. He's willing, but depressed and discouraged at the same time. He managed to conquer dyslexia enough to become a teacher and thought he'd come to the end of his battles. Now he has a whole other set of challenges to deal with.

[moimeme]

Originally posted by Tony

Enablers just lengthen the process by which the diseased person realizes they need help. It usually takes a very long time before most people decide they've had enough and want to get help. Enablers make it easy for them to stay where they are.

Oh, no. Not me. I told him that if he didn't get help, we were not going to continue. He was scheduled to start with a neurofeedback doc in January but couldn't get a job nearby so has to leave town for several months. There was no way on earth I'd even be trying this if he wasn't planning to get treated.

You do another no good whatsoever if you are so much a part of their lives that they have no motivation to live it or improve upon it themselves

Oh, gosh, have you ever got me wrong! I fear I've made the opposite case far too strongly. I haven't been able to maintain a kind demeanor when suggesting that certain behaviours better disappear because they are unacceptable. He now feels he's unacceptable - and I feel like a complete wretch. I have tried to explain that he is not his behaviours, but he isn't really hearing that.

Why didn't you just say in your original post that you wanted some praise and kudos for sacrificing the quality of your life for another? I wouldn't have responded. There are doctors and counsellors trained to get people like that back into productive lives. You are not qualified to do that.

I hope my previous answers have cleared up that misconception. I don't at all want any praise or kudos. I don't deserve them. I'm stupid for giving up too much but that's because - at least I figure maybe this is the reason - it's left me totally unable to deal with the behaviours. I am fully aware that I can't treat him. However, I badly need to know how to be supportive rather than frustrated and upset with him.

 

I think that, actually, I'm fighting AGAINST taking a 'superior' position to him too strongly. It is incredibly distasteful to me. I have tried to be his research associate - I found and transmitted the information to him. I have given him insight on social gaffes (for instance, why not to brag about his accomplishments in regular conversation) but that's it. I don't want a child or a dependent. Never did, never gonna. I like his kids, but they have a mother of their own and they have him to be 'dad'. I'm more like a babysitter and that's fine by me. I am heavily not into this sort of thing, which is why, I fear, I lack the patience I should have.

 

Now, I know you're both saying 'ditch him', but I haven't given him a chance to work with the information he has! I figured out about the ADD in, roughly, July (and we didn't have the $ for diagnosis or he would've gone immediately), the OCD was always evident, but I've only hit upon the other two in the last couple of weeks. It's just that OCPD is the worst problem and it seems to have the direst prognosis from the little I've found to read. We had another major dust-up (same ol' OCPD junk) but I couldn't keep my head and then, after I've said some real unpleasant things, I get depressed at my inability to detach from the disorders.

 

You'd think, given that he's leaving in a couple of weeks, that I could keep it together, but no, I turn into a screaming banshee all over again and then hate myself for it. So now who's the villain? Probably he'd be better off ditching me and looking for someone who could maintain a clearer head.

[moimeme]

There is a huge amount of information right here on ye ol' Internet. The DSM-IV criteria for disorders are listed in a bunch of places, the WHO guidelines are also available, as are several online self-diagnosis tests by reputable agencies. Of course, one then has to take one's findings to a psychologist for confirmation. By now, I've read at least a couple hundred articles, studies, etc. on AD/HD. My investigation into OCPD is fairly new, and there isn't quite as much available online, but I have a couple of excellent papers and I just got a good list of books on the topic. And links - I got links like you wouldn't believe.

 

For the last couple of days, it has felt like I couldn't make it even the next two weeks with what remains of my own sanity intact.

 

I've read enough horror stories from people who had therapists who hadn't a clue how to treat these conditions. Heck, I spoke to a local 'ADD specialist' who told me that ADHD was what intelligent people had and that non-H ADD was really a form of retardation!!!!!!

 

I'm hoping the neurofeedback will help my not-husband to the point where he can participate easily in his treatment. I have to wait until the doc next door gets back from holidays to see if neurofeedback helps other disorders; the good news is that studies are confirming that it does help ADD

 

The major chore will be to figure out what needs therapy first!!! I'm thinking his disorders are overdeveloped coping mechanisms - someone who suffered a lot of rejection as a kid could probably become an Avoidant personality, and someone who was physically abused by a spouse could easily need to become OCPD as a means of gaining control over his life!!! Then there's us as a couple. We need a couples therapist - but one familiar with dealing with couples dealing with this sort of illness. Kind of a tall order! Oh, we could keep the mental health profession employed for years LOL. Anybody out there want to do a thesis on us?

[Tony T]

YOU WRTE: "The major chore will be to figure out what needs therapy first!!! I'm thinking his disorders are overdeveloped coping mechanisms - someone who suffered a lot of rejection as a kid could probably become an Avoidant personality, and someone who was physically abused by a spouse could easily need to become OCPD as a means of gaining control over his life!!!"

 

Are you a licensed and/or trained psychotherapist?

 

You seem to be hell bent on diagnosing your boyfriend from information in books and on the Internet. Unless you are a highly trained professional, I advise against doing that!!!

 

YOU WROTE IN YOUR FIRST POST UP TOP: "I'm burned out to a cinder from dealing with all the behaviours that all of these conditions cause."

 

I think you're burned out to a cinder trying to defend the reasons you're staying with this person.

 

I pray to every God who ever existed that one day I shall find a lady so dedicated to me...and my problems are a tiny fraction of your boyfriend's. (If you have made accurate diagnoses.)

 

You need not reply to this post. I know exactly where you're coming from. I hope everything works out OK for the two of you.

[midori]

Quote

Originally posted by moimeme

There is a huge amount of information right here on ye ol' Internet. The DSM-IV criteria for disorders are listed in a bunch of places, the WHO guidelines are also available, as are several online self-diagnosis tests by reputable agencies. Of course, one then has to take one's findings to a psychologist for confirmation. By now, I've read at least a couple hundred articles, studies, etc. on AD/HD. My investigation into OCPD is fairly new, and there isn't quite as much available online, but I have a couple of excellent papers and I just got a good list of books on the topic. And links - I got links like you wouldn't believe.

 

 

I'm a doctoral student in cognitive/developmental psychology. I do not claim to be an expert on the disorders you've listed as they are not my specifc area of interest. But I do know that syndromes such as ADHD are NOT universally agreed diagnostic definitions. Yes, it's in the DSM-IV, a manual which is a guidebook only, and a source of conflict and controversy. The DSM-IV, or any diagnostic tool, is not, I must repeat NOT to be used by amateur sleuths seeking answers for the undesirable behavior of their children, spouses, etc.

 

You've basically pathologized this guy. He's got characteristics that you deem to be undesirable -- and he may agree with you about some of them -- and you've found some labels to apply to those characteristics. Those labels might seem to suggest that those characteristics are "treatable" -- with therapy or drugs -- so if you're looking to save the guy, that's a good route to go. But I'm sorry to say I think it's terribly terribly misguided. Here's why:

 

1. As Tony has observed, despite the considerable research you've done on the subjects, you are not a clinician, you do not have medical or scientific training, and you are in absolutely no position to dispense psychological diagnoses to anyone. No matter how good your intentions are. It's not just about being a good observer, although of course that's important. There are strict procedures to be followed, these are not not NOT things that can be applied willy-nilly.

 

There is a huge problem in America with children being mis-diagnosed with syndromes like ADHD. It's easy for their parents: "not my fault my kid misbehaves. He's got ADHD and so we have to dope him up with Ritalin." Some kids really do have problems. But it's nowhere near as prevalent as is commonly thought.

 

2. You are the one who has identified these problems. Did this guy come to you and say, "hey you know what, I think I have problems with compulsion and anger. I'm not sure what it's all about but I sure would like to find out?" Or did you decide "this guy has problems with compulsion and anger. I'm going to see if he fits the profile for disorders like OCD, etc." You're foisting your own conclusions onto him -- do you really think he's going to accept them? You've shrouded them in the guise of scientific assessments (which they are not), but you might as well have just said, "look, I think you need to accept the fact that you're a thoughtless, obnoxious jerk who can't control his temper. I think you need to change those things and become a better person."

 

I don't mean to sound harsh. I really do know what it's like to be with someone whose problems I saw so clearly, whose remedy seemed within reach if only he had the courage to step up to it. In some ways I still think I'm right about him. But in a larger sense, in the important sense, I was wrong to think that I knew what was best for him. And as a fledgling member of the psychological science community, I must warn you against the kind of inappropriate and very possibly completely inaccurate diagnoses you have made. You may have followed published guidelines to the letter in reaching the conclusions you have; but since you're untrained you simply cannot do that. I'm not trying to make out that diagnostic information is some kind of secret formula, and that only initiates can possess any real, meaningful knowledge. But the published guidelines are only sketches of the diagnostic procedure. Between steps a, b and c are other, smaller steps that are necessary precursors and are just as important to the diagnosis.

 

Lastly, even if you were a trained clinician, it would be ethically inappropriate for you to make a diagnosis about your boyfriend.

 

You might suspect that he has these problems. You might have good observational evidence that correlates with what you've read on various subjects. You can suggest to him that he check these things out with a trained professional. Until he does that, he has not been diagnosed with ANYTHING, and he won't be. So you then have to decide, "do I want to be with a guy who's in denial about his problems?"

[moimeme]

Originally posted by Tony

 

You seem to be hell bent on diagnosing your boyfriend from information in books and on the Internet.

I know my posts were long, but I stated quite definitely that he needs formal diagnosis and treatment. Also that I have come across *many* stories about people with disorders who were misdiagnosed for years. I am trying to be an informed participant in my own health care - you see, it seems I've got a touch of ADD, myself. Whether or not I do, I'm using the information and coping strategies I've found on ADD sites and they are helping immensely.

 

Actually, I'm very curious - it seems that there are licensed practitioners here and I'd love to hear from them - how do you know to screen for disorders, particularly when people with them are supposedly real bad at self-reporting??

I think you're burned out to a cinder trying to defend the reasons you're staying with this person.

Nah. I was ready to toss him out on his ear seven months ago until I realized that his problems come from treatable conditions.

If he lost the OCPD stuff, he'd be a terrific partner. I have read that people treated for OCD often also cease being OCPD.

 

I pray to every God who ever existed that one day I shall find a lady so dedicated to me...and my problems are a tiny fraction of your boyfriend's. (If you have made accurate diagnoses.)

Well, see, I figure people are supposed to be loyal, dedicated, noble, stuff like that. These used to be qualities that people aspired to. It's all old-fashioned and out of style, now, but so am I.

I know exactly where you're coming from.

Well, gosh, Tony! Are you able to make an accurate diagnosis from a few posts on a message board? You answered my question by saying that people with that many issues are often bad news and, I gather, often 'incurable'. I needed to know that. Now I make my choices based on that information plus everything else I've learned plus knowing him and me and having read his in-depth psychological assessment (no, he was not tested for any disorders at that time).

 

I get it - I'm running headlong into terrible odds. And, yes, you or Midori suggested some people don't quit soon enough in these circumstances. But, IMHO, these days most people quit far too soon. I'll haul both of our butts to professionals the minute he's back. If, after assessing us both, they say that we won't make it as a pair, then I'll throw in the towel.

[moimeme]

Dear Midori -

 

Originally posted by midori

The DSM-IV, or any diagnostic tool, is not, I must repeat NOT to be used by amateur sleuths seeking answers for the undesirable behavior of their children, spouses, etc.

Of course not, and I didn't. I used the tests at sites recommended by people and their partners who used the sites to help with their own diagnosis and treatment and who are happy that they are finally being treated properly. There are about 400 Yahoo groups on ADD, if you're interested in communicating with individuals dealing with it.

1. As Tony has observed, despite the considerable research you've done on the subjects, you are not a clinician, you do not have medical or scientific training, and you are in absolutely no position to dispense psychological diagnoses to anyone.

OK, please remember that I said that he needs a formal diagnosis. I *never* claimed that I have the final answer about this guy's situation. You will know, I guess, that the APA guidelines for diagnosis include interviews with family since these patients don't self-report well.

from the AAFP:

Because adults with ADHD may not appreciate their symptoms, the patient's spouse or another significant person in the patient's life should ideally be included in the interview.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20001101/2077.html

from Midori

There is a huge problem in America with children being mis-diagnosed with syndromes like ADHD. It's easy for their parents: "not my fault my kid misbehaves. He's got ADHD and so we have to dope him up with Ritalin." Some kids really do have problems. But it's nowhere near as prevalent as is commonly thought.

 

from NIMH:

Nearly 4 million school-age children have learning disabilities. Of these, at least 20 percent have a type of disorder that leaves them unable to focus their attention

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/learndis.cfm#adhd

 

please also see MYTHS ABOUT ADD/ADHD

by

Becky Booth, Wilma Fellman, LPC, Judy Greenbaum, Ph.D., Terry Matlen, ACSW, Geraldine Markel, Ph.D., Howard Morris, Arthur L. Robin, Ph.D., Angela Tzelepis, Ph.D.

http://www.add.org/content/abc/myths.htm

2. You're foisting your own conclusions onto him -- do you really think he's going to accept them?

Well, actually, I'm not. I told him 'this is the information I've found and, if you want them, I have all the links and articles for you.' I also said that he needs a formal diagnosis. In fact, I insist that he verify what I've told him with professionals.

 

 

He badly wants a diagnosis. He says that, all his life, people have 'hated him' after they got to know him and he'd like that to change and if it takes him to get diagnosed, he's more than willing because he's tired of people 'being mad at' him.

You might as well have just said, "look, I think you need to accept the fact that you're a thoughtless, obnoxious jerk who can't control his temper. I think you need to change those things and become a better person.

Fortunately, he doesn't have temper problems. Just as an aside, one of the quotes from an ADD spouse forum is (paraphrased)

'you better get busy convincing me that you have ADD and that it can be treated or else I have no other choice but to believe you are a complete jerk'

Between steps a, b and c are other, smaller steps that are necessary .

Dear Midori - of course! You seem bent on convincing me that a professional must conduct a formal diagnosis - I assure you, you are preaching to the converted!!!! Among other things, he received a head injury in his youth - in the frontal lobe area. Could be there's structural damage, so for sure he wants a scan.

So you then have to decide, "do I want to be with a guy who's in denial about his problems?"

He's not. He's not real happy about believing in the OCPD, but then, that's the pathology, they say! He is actually very eager to get the other diagnoses because, as I said above, he wants to quit having people 'mad at him' and he accepts that maybe that he can actually be fixed if he's willing. It really distresses him that he's had so many negative reactions over time.

[Debster]

So much so that you say you don't have the energy to get a job and want to stay in a hotel until he does. Either you like the drama, or lack enough self-esteem to realize that you should get out of this awful situation. Don't you think you deserve better?

[quankanne]

your guy is ready to proactively do something about it, you're just banging your head against the wall as you try to find a remedy for him that he just doesn't want.

 

I'm with you fully on the loyalty issue – to be anything less would be asking yourself to be untrue to what you value – but at what point do you admit when something is bad for you? How far do you have to devalue yourself or hurt yourself before you realize that it's not about your loyalty to someone, but being able to preserve the integrity of the loyalty you offer someone?

 

I think each and everyone of us has experienced that kind of co-dependency at some point, be it with a lover, a spouse or a sibling, or even with a good friend. Because we care so much about them, we want to help, we want to stand by them in their need. Howver, a big part of loyalty is having a healthy respect of what you are able to give, of knowing when it drags you down more than it helps the person in need. When it reaches a point where you become consumed by someone's cause but he doesn't try to help himself, I think the effectiveness of that loyalty becomes diminished because of the conditions now attached to it and it loses integrity.

 

You can't "find a cure" for someone who doesn't find it important enough to seek that help himself, even though you may feel better because in your research you've found out a little more about why a person is the way he is. Until a person takes command of his or her problems, nothing will change, no matter how much work you put into that relationship.

[moimeme]

...Debster and Quankanne. You've hit the nail on the head.

 

Howver, a big part of loyalty is having a healthy respect of what you are able to give, of knowing when it drags you down more than it helps the person in need

 

Quite right. I've committed the cardinal sin of 'caregivers' - I quit looking after myself. Always figure I'm so tough, I'll always be fine, but of course that's silly. I can handle quite a bit - but there are a whole bunch of other stressful things (deaths in family) which have also happened during that same two years. I failed to do all the things one is supposed to do to make sure one doesn't get overwhelmed. Now I need repairs. The six month break will allow me to regain my own self and change my approach such that I don't devote so much of me to the 'cause'. Anyway, once he's dealing with a doctor, it'll be up to the doc and him to do the work.

 

Not sure why people still have the impression he's not willing to get help. He is, in spades, though he does tend to think he can fix it all by himself if he just 'tries harder'. Seems a heckuva lot of ADDers have this same belief. Seems they tend to believe their problems are character flaws which can be fixed by dint of will. Brain scans and EEGs show there are actual differences in brain activities for people with ADD, but a lot of the studies are fairly new. Of course, newer studies have also shown that brains get changed through talk therapy alone, too, which is why he thinks he might be able to do this himself.

 

Still, he listens to authority, and if a doc tells him, once he's diagnosed, that he really cannot do it all himself, he'll believe the doc.

[midori]

Originally posted by quankanne

You can't "find a cure" for someone who doesn't find it important enough to seek that help himself, even though you may feel better because in your research you've found out a little more about why a person is the way he is. Until a person takes command of his or her problems, nothing will change, no matter how much work you put into that relationship.

 

My point exactly -- and more succinctly put.

[moimeme]

Well, the way it goes with ADD (and, especially ADD and dyslexia) is that almost always the spouses do the research work (male and female spouses, BTW) and then the ADDer follows through with the treatment. But I totally agree that it would be stupid of me to continue if he denied he needed help or if he refused to go for it now that I've found it.

[pinkroses]

of desperation. You say you're not codependent, but you sound like the worst case of it I've ever heard. Maybe not in the relationship with this man, but you are definitely addicted to care-taking. Who made you this guy's savior? I'm sure you love him, but is he worth losing your sanity over? If you're so emotionally and physically exhausted coping with his problems that you don't even have the energy to look for work, surely you can agree that omething needs to change! It's a noble and beautiful thing to stand by someone who needs our help, but no one is to be a sacrifice for someone else's dysfunction. Sometimes there comes a point where the most loving thing we can do is to cut the umbilical cord.

 

Your post reads (in so many words) that this guy would not make it without your help. What would happen to him if you got over-taxed and became ill or incapacitated? Perhaps you want to hear that if you just hang in there or find some unused reservoirs of strength, your man will one day wake up new and whole, or you'll get some warm, fuzzy feelings ten years down the road when he finally gets better. Instead, you may have to face the reality that this guy has problems beyond what you can fix or help.

[barry]

The DSM-IV is used primarily to code disorders for insurance/reimbursement purposes by healthcare professionals.

 

Diagnosis of these disorders is for the most part a clinical call, which may vary from professional to professional.

 

It is also very vague in nature, any given person can fit literally tens if not hundreds of disorders in the DSM-IV

 

This is just for your info. I know because I have a license and currently practice medicine

 

Barry

[quankanne]

as a medical practicioner, has it gotten harder or easier to do your job because of recent health insurance policies/directives?

 

it seems to me (as a patient) that the insurance companies are making it harder for us to get the help we seek, but I think maybe it's equally as hard for healers (psychological, medical, etc.) to practice the very thing they've trained long and hard to do ...

[moimeme]

It's nice of everyone to worry so much about whether I've hung out a shingle without license. I assure you I haven't. It's also nice of everyone to worry about me burning myself out. You're right, and I was, but there are things that people dealing with ill partners are supposed to do, and I didn't do them, so I get that. I also get what I need to do henceforth. I still would like to find a few success stories. Surely every single couple in which there's a disorder doesn't crash and burn? If so, then maybe some of you professionals might consider figuring out how to use your skills to help these folks, because that'd be dreadful.

 

I have been an Internet researcher for seven years and am well acquainted with the nature of information on the internet. I know how to locate sources and to research the sources, too. NIMH and AAFP are fairly reputable, when last I heard However, the Internet was originally used as a collaboration medium method for researchers, and it is still used that way by a lot of professionals.

 

What I was looking for was asked in another forum - how to not let someone's behaviour bug me. In the other forum, it was a person's grandmother. Rather than being told to avoid or dump the grandmother, the person was advised to ignore the behaviour. However, the person wasn't told how to achieve that zen state. I guess the only thing to do is to hie oneself to a Rational-Emotive Behaviour guy.

 

I didn't try to excuse his behavior. I tried to find advice on fixing the relationship, or whether it could be fixed, and came across the explanations for his behaviour. Most people dealing with people with ADD at least give the ADDer a chance to get treated before tossing them out the door. I figure that's only fair. And if he gets tested with every test known to neurology, neuropsychology, neuropsychiatry, psychology, psychiatry, and every other medical specialty, and it turns out that he's just a jerk, then I'll ditch him. Maybe I'll come back and drop a line to let you know how it all worked out.

 

However, I have communicated with many people who are ADD or have dealt with ADDers, including some of the authors of some of the better books on the topic, and the consensus is that ADD is difficult to live with. However, so is Bipolar, Schizophrenia, and Alzheimer's and people manage it. Then again, I know a psychologist who divorced her depressed husband so maybe it is hard to deal with someone who's mentally ill.

 

Anyway, never mind. I'll on a hunt to find places where partners of people with these sorts of illnesses congregate

to find out from them how they adjust their attitude to suit the situation. Obviously, you can't have the same expectations of a sick person while s/he's in the process of getting well.

[vousyouyou]

Being this close to the person might be clouding your partiality in diagnosing illness in your partner.

 

A doctor does not consult a mirror for a diagnosis.

[HokeyReligions]

Whew! I finally got thru the posts.

 

I’m going to try to address the key points by using examples from my own marriage. There are a lot of correlations.

 

Quote from original post: “he's selfish, lacks empathy, and is argumentative and uncooperative most of the time. Not only that, he thinks I'm nuts because his behaviours are upsetting me badly. He says I have an anger problem!”

 

That pretty much described my relationship for the first 5 years (2 years dating, 3 years married). I used to cry every day because I loved him so much and didn’t want to leave, but I was so miserable. I was scared that I was wasting my life and would never be happy. My husband was never abusive and in-between the hurt we did have some fun times.

 

I didn’t work for almost 2 years because a) it was a very tight job market; and b) I just didn’t have the energy. My husband was going from job to job because he hated what he was doing and felt he did not have the intelligence to do anything else. He was angry and depressed all the time. We stopped being intimate with each other around the 3rd year of marriage. That was devastating to me and made my self-esteem go downhill. I had several “friends” tell me that I was co-dependent and that I needed to leave him. I went to an on-line board similar to this (back before there was a “real” internet and Prodigy had just come out.) and the advice was so similar to what is here. I had gone to the library, read books, and tried to find answers and solutions. I was accused of trying to diagnose and treat something that I wasn’t capable of, the whole thing.

 

What finally happened was that we went to a free couples counseling sponsored by a Christian church. It’s all we could afford and my husband agreed to go. He new that something needed to change, but mostly he went to “keep me quiet”. We went five times and it did a little good, but not much. It was just enough to know that we needed more help from real professionals. The free counseling had counselors that went to a few classes, but were not doctors or licensed therapists.

 

As the years rolled on, we managed to get along – although we did break up a few times. We kept coming back to each other because he needed me financially (I was finally working steady and he was still job-hopping) and because he said he cared about me although he didn’t love me. He later said he stayed because he just felt to weak to leave. I stayed because I loved him and I just KNEW that things would change and we would be okay and happy.

 

My job had an Employee Assistance Program (EAP), which covered six free sessions with a therapist – someone who was nearing their graduation or just had not received their license yet. We went together and he went alone. The therapist diagnosed a deeper problem that would require more in-depth counseling from a professional, and with that referral, he went to a psychiatrist. I went when I was asked to participate, even though I was filled with trepidation. I was so afraid that we would be told it was best to divorce. Instead, we were given some tools to use in our communications and we learned to understand each other and ourselves.

 

Since I was working steady, I encouraged my husband to look for a job doing what he always wanted to do. He got the phone book out, made calls, sent out applications, and kept after it until someone hired him. He worked there for 2 years and got a great education and experience. He moved on to another company where he built a client base and really built the company. During that time, we stopped seeing the doctor and worked on our relationship ourselves. We still were not intimate with each other and I was still hurt over that – it had been around 8 years at that time, since we had touched each other. People still said “break up with the inconsiderate jerk – he doesn’t love you, stop being co-dependent and stupid, etc.” but as much as I wanted sex to be a part of the marriage, I realized that the love I felt for him went even deeper. I worked very, VERY hard to get over my depression about the lack of intimacy.

 

We decided to buy a house since we were both working. A year after we bought the house he was fired from his job. The problem was his boss (who owned the company) was jealous of the client base my husband built up (more clients asked for him than for the owner) and because my husband can’t read or write very well. He also follows directions to the letter and is not always able to distinguish when a rule should NOT be applied.

 

Anyway, he tried to find a job but could not. His health was deteriorating so bad that he couldn’t do the physical aspects of a job either. We almost lost the house and did end up in some serious financial difficulty – our income had been cut by around 65%. We had some relationship problems then too, as you might imagine. He was mad at himself and felt stupid and worthless. He was afraid I would resent him. It got pretty bad.

 

During this time, I encouraged him to try to get some help like disability since he couldn’t work and we were afraid we were going to lose everything again. (During our first years of marriage, we were homeless for a short time when we were both out of work. Nothing like living out of a 1973 VW Bug.) Anyway, he went to the Texas Rehabilitation Center. He wanted to go to school to learn a new trade – multimedia. The TRC sent him to a g’zillion doctors and he was tested from head to toe and back again. His physical disability meant no manual work. (He could walk around the house, but if we went anywhere, I had to push him in the wheelchair) His mental disability was finally diagnosed as more than emotional, but stemming from actual neural damage to his brain. Suffered as a result of forceps used to deliver him and repeated beatings as a child. This damage impaired his ability to read and write. He cannot visualize more than two letters at a time and when reading or writing he can’t “see” more than three letters at a time. So his reading and writing is at a 3rd grade level. His parents didn’t know about the damage and they beat him for being stupid and called him retarded and worthless. That’s how he felt about himself. I was the first person to come along and STAY with him because I saw the potential and was supportive. He is not stupid. He has a fantastic vocabulary and intellect. His reasoning skills are wonderful and he can learn and retain information. His skills as a videographer, producer, director, and editor are award-winning.

 

Anyway, he was able to apply to Social Security for disability. He’d been paying into it for years and now he was getting some of it back. Plus, TRC was paying to send him to college. We talked to a college counselor and I went to school with him for a few classes to make sure he was able to do the work, and to support him.

 

He graduated with honors, 4.0GPA. He has not been able to find a job that doesn’t require him to do some physical work so we have been slowly building our own business. We still have some financial problems – I’ve been at so many jobs in the last 5 years because I’ve worked in the Oil & Gas industry and kept being caught up in those mergers. One job I had went out of business and I was un employed for six weeks. My mother has also moved in with us – 4 years ago. That was another adjustment. My husband and I also faced more health problems this past year. He was diagnosed diabetic, has a heart condition, and had total knee replacement surgery last September. He is still physically disabled, but the pain is less. A couple of years ago he looked at me and said he had never loved anyone so much, or ever felt as loved as he does and he said he’s never felt closer to me than he does now. He even tells the people he works with and his friends how much he loves me. He’s bursting with it. The people in the hospitals he was in have commented on us and asked if we were newlyweds! We do touch now – holding hands, squeezing a shoulder, sometimes a hug or kiss. We haven’t been intimate with each other in many, many years now. It’s ironic that now that he wants to, he can’t because of physical limitations. Diabetes also makes men impotent. It’s no big deal to me. I’ve adjusted over the years and it makes it easier to bear just knowing that he wants to now and can’t, where before he could but didn’t want to.

 

It has been a long road. However, I would travel it again and again to get where we are today. I have no doubts that he loves me for who I am and not what I can do for him. He has no doubts that I love him for who he is too. It’s closeness that I wish everyone could know, but I feel like we are the only two people in the world with this much love to share.

 

Are we co-dependent? Well, in some aspects, we match the profile, but when you dig down, we are not co-dependent. There is nothing wrong with making sacrifices for someone you love and there is nothing wrong with being hopeful, even when those around you think you are wrong to feel that way. However, we have to be realistic too and know that not all relationships work out – especially those with the problems like we’ve had. It’s a matter of making choices and reviewing the reasons behind those choices periodically. At some point, you may call it quits, or you may take a break for a while – I did that too. I stayed in a hotel for a long weekend – just reading and watching TV and not getting dressed or doing anything. I listened to music and took bubble baths. It really helped.

 

On the other hand, you might choose to stick it out – but be careful of becoming resentful. That is where I needed the most help to deal with the situation and where I would sit down with my lists of why I made the choices I did. It was a way of reassuring myself and purging the anger. I didn’t purge the hurt though – that stayed for a very long time. But it was all worth it for the marriage I have now.

[moimeme]

Really, truly, I do get it. I just seem, somehow, completely unable to convince any of you that I am insisting that he get a formal diagnosis, testing, etc. from a real live degreed medical-type person (my preference is for a neuropsychiatrist or neuropsychologist). It was never my intent to be the diagnostician of choice. I wasn't at all looking to diagnose him but, I kept landing on sites of interest, and as I followed the links and references, I'd hit on these descriptions which are him to a "T". So we can suggest to whomever's doing the testing that maybe these might be worth testing for. That's it.

 

Certainly, you are right - the Internet dabbler oughtn't fool around with just any old information they find on the Internet. Just as with any other piece of information, you have to be sure the source is a genuine authority and not any old schmoe who decided to put up a website.

 

Nonetheless, 'magazines' have published lists for people to check whether they, or someone they know, might be alcoholic, diabetic, abusive, etc. There are certainly some checklists which are very useful and which can give people or their friends and supporters a clue that there might be cause for medical intervention. As I said, had I not discovered the information about these disorders, I would have just figured him for a jerk.

 

Pinkroses - I don't want to fix him. I want him to get fixed all by himself. It's too tiring. I do help him with social cues - that's fine, but I don't plan to make him my life's work. He has a chance to fly straight. I'll dust off his feathers and point him towards the runway (yeah, well, a few mixed metaphors never hurt anyone LOL) but he's got to rev up the engines and get going. Or I'll fly the coop <weg>.

[Just A Girl2]

I think there's a huge difference, and "fine line" between supporting one's partner, and not deserting them in their time of need, and being a martyr and totally losing yourself to be with them/for them.

 

What exactly are you even *getting* from this relationship, other than well acquainted with the DSM-IV?

 

Don't you think it's simply unhealthy/abnormal/absurd, that being in this relationship is exhausting you to the extent that you can't even hold down a job? It almost sounds to me like this man is your addiction. An addiction is something/someone in one's life, that takes precendence over every thing else........and it gets in the way of the basic elements of one's life: their career, their social life, their relationships with family/friends, their ability to meet all of their basic needs. There are plenty of books out there (in the Self Help section), on being "addicted" to people/relationships. Might be something you want to read up on.

 

This guy simply doesn't sound like he has anything going for him, other than the fact that he helped bring 4 children into this world. Whether you're on target about the various personality disorders you believe he has, the bottom line is that he doesn't sound like relationship material.

 

You were not put on this earth to be his therapist, mother, savior, guide. Seriously, what are YOU getting from this relationship? You've already admitted that you're burnt right out. What does that tell you?

 

Unless you're married to him, and committed your life to him, you don't owe him the kind of lifelong commitment to help him with his many problems as you seem to think you do. I sense that a large part of you remains with him, out of guilt......and this sense that if you stand up for yourself and YOUR NEEDS, that you, in essence, will be some kind of horrible, heartless selfish person who's abandoning someone with problems. That's not true at all.

 

Even people in marriages who come to realize their spouses have all kinds of problems, can only take so much. There comes a point where a person has to sit down and get real with themself (speaking in regards to someone like your boyfriend)....and take responsibility for their actions/inactions. And yeah, nearly all of us have had problems in our childhood......but there also comes a point where grown adults have to get with the program and not justify their "problems", blaming them on childhood. It's very noble of you to try and be understanding of his many problems, DUE in part to his childhood, but there's MANY men out there who had much worse childhoods, who grew up to be stable, productive, well-balanced individuals who were capable of being a healthy partner.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with the others, that you need to be very very careful about formulating possible diagnoses........with any type of mental illness, personality disorder, etc......a diagnosis is made based on so much more than going down a "symptom checklist." It takes many thorough psychological assessments (by a psychologist/psychiatrist)......and really spending time delving into things with the client.

 

It's also entirely possible that your boyfriend is just a putz.....who's lazy when it comes to carrying his weight in life, in the relationship.....and you want so much to JUSTIFY his behavior, by chalking it up to various disorders. No offense, but did it occur to you that maybe he just doesn't have what it takes to be in a relationship, not in any way related to personality disorders?

 

There's a very GOOD book I was once given, titled "Love Slaves: How to End Your Addiction to Another Person" ...by Dr Bernard Green, publisher: Bob Adams, Inc (Holbrook, Massechusetts, 1993).

 

Let me copy a few excerpts from this book for you:

 

"Such individuals (love addicts) find themselves attracted only to needy people because they find that needy people are attracted to them. They feel their lives are boring and empty if they don't have a crisis to handle, a problem to solve, someone to help. They rally to causes that will help others, overcomitting, then feeling harried and pressured."

 

"They (love addicts) live with guilt, with the sense that they should always be doing something more, doing something different. They are ashamed of who they are, feel that their lives aren't worth living, and prefer trying to help other people live their lives instead. Their sense of self-worth comes only from helping others, holding in disdain anything they may do for themselves."

 

"Love addicts focus all of their energy on other people, then wonder why they neve have energy for themselves, why they never seem to be able to get things done. They often become controlling, afraid to allow events to happen naturally. They think they know best how events should turn out and how people should be have. They try to control events and people through helplessness, guilt, coercion, advice giving, manipulation and domination."

 

"Love addicts are repressed, often rigid and controlled. They are anxious about the difficulties of others, frequently talking about such problems, no matter how minor. They lose sleep over the behavior and concerns of others, bearing a burden that should NOT BE THEIRS."

 

"The love addict is someone who feels responsible for other people's feelings, thoughts, actions, choices ,and sense of well-being, or the lack thereof. He or she feels anxiety, pity, or guilt when other people have a problem, then feels compelled, almost forced, to help that person solve the problem, becoming angry if that help proves ineffective."

 

Okay, I think you get the jist of the book's message.

 

This comment of yours:

 

"he's selfish, lacks empathy, and is argumentative and uncooperative most of the time. Not only that, he thinks I'm nuts because his behaviours are upsetting me badly. He says I have an anger problem!”

 

Doesn't sound like he has a lot of redeeming qualities, now does it? Don't you think that these negative qualities are ones that MUST be there in someone who's good relationship material? I don't think it's too much to ask, to be with someone who's UNselfish..who possesses a sense of empathy, who is NOT argumentative (which can be a result of being immature, defensive, not able to take constructive criticism, ego problems, etc) and who knows how to cooperate?

 

There is a difference, I think, between being our brother's keeper, and being our brother's doormat.

 

Clearly, from the above passage, I don't get the sense at all, that your b/f can admit that he has any problems....in fact, it's *you* who has the problem. The first step to dealing with any problem, is admitting there is one. He's so not at this point.

 

And this crap (sorry but I see it as a total copout) that he couldn't look into information himself, due to his dyslexia.......I'm sorry but I don't buy that. He obviously made his way through school to become a teacher........ I'm sure he wasn't given any special exemptions or privileges, due to his alleged dyslexia. College is not a walk in the park and he must have had to be able to do research, learn, possess a fair degree of self discipline, etc.

 

You obviously have a big heart, and that's commendable.....but you're simply not doing this guy any favors by doing all the legwork for him. You are sacrificing yourself, and your life, for someone who can't even admit they have some problems. You're too burnt out to even hold down a job, because you're simply warn out from dealing with his sh*t, and then there's all the countless hours you must spend doing online research. Where do YOU figure into any of this? You are doing your utmost to meet his needs, what about your needs? Not only does it seem that he's surely not meeting them, but in sacrificing yourself for him, it doesn't seem that you're able to meet YOUR own needs! Does this seem healthy to you?

 

I dated a guy once (and ended up living with him temporarily)...who I found out had all kinds of issues. Although he'd never been formally diagnosed, he chalked up his immature behavior to thinking he had Adult ADHD. By clinging to this 'belief' that he had this, that was his way of justifying his sh*tty behavior, his poor attention span (rudeness/being too self-absorbed to focus on anyone but himself), his temper tantrums, his lack of patience for things. The bottom line was that he expected relationships to be a 'breeze'...with no work or effort on his part...and he was very controlling and insisted that he call all the shots, and that I just be the faithful, devoted puppy dog who came when he called.

 

He simply refused to be accountable. It was easier to blame his childhood, his parents (he was in his 30s), his ex wife, his boss, etc...then to be man enough to take responsibility. I lived with him very briefly, once this all became more apparent...and you can bet your bottom dollar that I didn't feel guilty for 'abandoning him'....... I was not put on this earth to be someone's doormat or psychiatrist. Being in a good relationship is synonymous with being equals.....partners........not me being someone's mother/therapist/babysitter.

 

It would likely be in YOUR best interest,if you could find a professional to talk to.......to delve into what attracts you, perhaps, to people who have problems, and what drives you to feel that you must help them solve all their problems...........and to receive some guidance on how to set 'boundaries'........and to learn how to make the distinction between being committed, and being taken advantage of.

 

Wishing you well.