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Trump and God


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Old 21st November 2016, 6:18 AM   #1
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Trump and God

From an outsider ( not an American) I've heard a lot about Trump being " godly ordained" to be the leader of the free world. He seems like a complete buffoon to me. However, the choices ( out of democrats and Republicans) weren't exactly great either.

Does anyone have any ideas on this? What opinions do people have about Trump being " ordained by God"

thanks
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Old 21st November 2016, 7:15 AM   #2
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Hey :)

I only know what scripture says

"A man's heart plans his way, but the LORD directs his steps" (Proverbs 16:9).
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Old 21st November 2016, 7:54 AM   #3
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I always think this religious talk is about justifying hatred towards anything that represents 'other' (ie homosexual, female, people of colour, jews, muslims, etc).
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Old 21st November 2016, 10:05 AM   #4
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I might be able to shed some light on this. In the US, the Republicans are aligned with evangelical Christianity. I live in an evangelical hotbed in the deep South, so I've been around evangelicals my entire life. I went to an evangelical church in my childhood. Many evangelicals see the Democrats as ungodly and see the Republicans as aligned with God. To them, elections are literally spiritual warfare, a choice between God (Republicans) and Democrats (not God).

That is a brief starter for you! Feel free to ask more questions, and I will try to answer them as best I can.
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Old 21st November 2016, 10:29 AM   #5
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As someone from across the other side of The Pond, I think Trump's relationship with God is his business, and no-one else's
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Old 21st November 2016, 10:45 AM   #6
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As someone from across the other side of The Pond, I think Trump's relationship with God is his business, and no-one else's
Yes, ideally that would be the case, but in the U.S. - if you want to please the (republican) voters, you better display some "closeness" to God and the Bible. In politics, you hear a lot of "god bless you" etc., even by the currently democratic POTUS. It's just what the American population wants to hear, even though, IMHO, this has no room in politics/public service/government.
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Old 21st November 2016, 12:06 PM   #7
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Does anyone have any ideas on this? What opinions do people have about Trump being " ordained by God"

thanks
It's important first to note that Christian history took a horrible turn when Christians started killing Non-Christians or other Christians not in their group. (Before this, Christians were persecuted off and on, but the early Christians did not persecute other people.)

So, when I hear about a leader being "ordained by God" and being Christian, I need to see proof that the person in question truly obeys Jesus Christ's commands.

Jesus Christ clearly said, “If you love me, keep my commands." - John 14:15 (NIV)

One of Jesus' commands is to love neighbors as oneself (Matthew 22:35-40; Luke 6:27-37). Jesus gave the "Good Samaritan" parable to show that loving neighbors = no borders. In His time, the Jewish people and the Samaritan people did not get along very well. However, Jesus Christ broke "the wall of hostility" (Ephesians 2:11-18) in between Jew and Gentile to bring them together as one.

Now, does Trump love neighbors as himself, including our neighbors to the South? (Sadly, many Americans don't like Mexicans, sorta like how many Jewish people did not like the Samaritans.) Does Trump truly love Mexicans and Latin Americans, as well as our Muslim neighbors (many of whom have brown or black skin). Many people don't think so.

Another of Jesus' commands is to love enemies, which is the hardest command Jesus gave His disciples (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-36).
How do we love enemies? Luke 6:27-28 (NIV) give a basic illustration of what loving enemies looks like: (I boldened some.)

"But to you who are listening I say:
Love your enemies,
do good to those who hate you,
bless those who curse you,
pray for those who mistreat you."

Trump has many enemies, including political enemies in the GOP that he had to beat to win the GOP nomination. Have we seen him display doing good to, blessing, and praying for his enemies?

Definitely it is fine to disagree with people and voice one's opposition against another person's words and actions, as well as call for justice. However, that does not negate the importance of doing good to them, blessing them, and praying for them = obeying Jesus Christ.
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Old 21st November 2016, 12:27 PM   #8
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What opinions do people have about Trump being " ordained by God"

thanks

Since my opinion is based on what Jesus Christ says, we can compare Trump's comments to Jesus Christ's teachings, and we can question if he does truly obey Jesus' commands to love neighbors as oneself, and love enemies, which includes doing good to them, blessing them, and praying for them.

Jesus also instructed, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.” - Luke 12:15 (NIV)

Trump said, "I don't feel good about turning down money because my whole life I've been greedy, greedy, greedy... now I want to be greedy for the United States. I want to grab all that money." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOF03ZAuemE

Is Trump obeying Jesus Christ about being on guard against all kinds of greed?

Jesus Christ also taught, "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." - Matthew 6:24 (NIV)

Sadly, in the USA a false gospel of prosperity is being taught, where basically some Christian leaders claim you can serve God in order to get rich. This however is totally and completely opposite of what Jesus Christ taught, His personal example, and the lives of His disciples who walked and talked with him, as well as the Early Church (Acts 2:41-47).
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Old 21st November 2016, 12:30 PM   #9
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From an outsider ( not an American) I've heard a lot about Trump being " godly ordained" to be the leader of the free world. He seems like a complete buffoon to me. However, the choices ( out of democrats and Republicans) weren't exactly great either.

Does anyone have any ideas on this? What opinions do people have about Trump being " ordained by God"

thanks
America is one the most religious western countries, faith is a large part of their culture still in a very obvious way. Hotbed issues come down to religion more so than any other country I've seen. So it's no surprise to me that this controversial PE, got connected to religion on some level. IMHO it's got squat to do with God and heaps to do with their culture.
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Old 21st November 2016, 12:40 PM   #10
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Thank you guys. I've always thought that the Clinton's were corrupt, then what politician isn't?

As for Trump, I just didn't agree with this influx of support ( especially from evangelicals) that call Donald Trump a modern day Cyrus.

Ever since Donald Trump began to surge as a candidate last year, Christians have been pointing to the book of Isaiah and comparing Trump with the ancient Persian King Cyrus. Some have even claimed that God has revealed to them that He will use Trump for the good of America just as He used Cyrus for the good of the Jewish people, even though Cyrus was a "pagan" king.

Or some people are comparing Donald trump Nebuchadnezzar in the book of Daniel.

I compare Donald Trump to Donald Trump, I'm a bit nervous the way he handles people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADecI4xw-yg

He brought out land in Scotland and evicted people off their land who had been there for generations. Why? because he called people slobs who lived on the land and he wanted to build a golf course even though people had their history and clans history rooted in the land.

If that's how he negotiates trade on a local level, I can't imagine how he is going to negotiate trade on a full scale international level.

I think Donald Trump is a bully, and if he doesn't get his way he throws tantrums and spits the dummy.

We should be nervous.
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Old 21st November 2016, 12:47 PM   #11
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Does anyone have any ideas on this? What opinions do people have about Trump being " ordained by God"

thanks
Since Trump identifies as a Christian, it is very important that he obey Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's commands, teachings, and example are preciously important and shouldn't be thrown away by His followers. That's my personal opinion.

Jesus Christ made it clear that the righteous do the following, based on Matthew 25:35-36, and verse 40 (NIV):

1. "I was hungry and you gave me something to eat"
2. "I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink"
3. "I was a stranger and you invited me in"
4. "I needed clothes and you clothed me"
5. "I was sick and you looked after me"
6. "I was in prison and you came to visit me."
7. ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

Now, a Christian doesn't do the above in order to get into Heaven. They do the above because they love Jesus Christ and out of love for Him, they love the poor and those that other people hate (strangers and prisoners, including shock of all shockers, criminals).

Some Christians think that we should only do this to Christian people of our own country, but other Christians understand that this is a global outreach, which is why many Christians go and help poor people in other countries, no matter their religious beliefs.

Now, does Trump express the desire to help the poor from Mexico and other poor countries? Giving to charities does not always mean helping, the reason being is because sadly, many charities make a lot of $ via donations, but don't always spend that money on truly helping those in need. (That's why it's best to find people in need and give directly to them, instead of giving to a charity that says they will do it.)

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Old 21st November 2016, 1:07 PM   #12
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Thank you guys. I've always thought that the Clinton's were corrupt, then what politician isn't?
I think there are some politicans who aren't corrupt, but I agree that most are. Politics doesn't have to be that way, in my opinion.

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As for Trump, I just didn't agree with this influx of support ( especially from evangelicals) that call Donald Trump a modern day Cyrus.
Some say he's a baby Christian, and then they say he's a modern day Cyrus (who was not a Christian). It's just because they believe he's an American Messiah. They say he's a baby Christian or Cyrus because they don't expect him to obey Jesus Christ's commands, even though he identifies as a Christian.

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Ever since Donald Trump began to surge as a candidate last year, Christians have been pointing to the book of Isaiah and comparing Trump with the ancient Persian King Cyrus. Some have even claimed that God has revealed to them that He will use Trump for the good of America just as He used Cyrus for the good of the Jewish people, even though Cyrus was a "pagan" king.
Jesus Christ warned, "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time." - Matthew 24:24-25 (NIV)

To many American Christians, Trump is seen as a sort of American Messiah, though of course they consider him to be a messiah like Cyrus, because it's blasphemy in Christian beliefs to consider Trump to be the messiah (Jesus Christ), and they know that. Interestingly, Jesus didn't specify whether the false messiahs are only those claiming to be on the throne of King David, or if this means false messiahs in general, including messiahs put in the Cyrus category.

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Or some people are comparing Donald trump Nebuchadnezzar in the book of Daniel.
Nebuchadenezzar is not a Christian, and neither was Cyrus. (Christians didn't exist till after Jesus Christ came lol.) So, it doesn't make sense to compare a Christian to either king, and the President of the USA is not supposed to be a king anyways.

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I compare Donald Trump to Donald Trump, I'm a bit nervous the way he handles people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADecI4xw-yg
Trump does not obey some of Jesus Christ's commands; that's just a fact.
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He brought out land in Scotland and evicted people off their land who had been there for generations. Why? because he called people slobs who lived on the land and he wanted to build a golf course even though people had their history and clans history rooted in the land.

If that's how he negotiates trade on a local level, I can't imagine how he is going to negotiate trade on a full scale international level.
Definitely, loving one's neighbors as oneself is important. There's a reason Jesus Christ commanded it, and it wasn't for the greedy self-interests of any rich person, but rather for the good of all people!!!

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I think Donald Trump is a bully, and if he doesn't get his way he throws tantrums and spits the dummy.
Agreed.
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We should be nervous.
Disagree. I think we should not be nervous or afraid, but rather we should be vigilant and make sure he doesn't do a modern day Trail of Tears. Sadly, American history is full of Christians disobeying Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself and love enemies.

It's very important for Christian Americans to take a stand for our poor neighbors who are strangers and who are hated by white supremacists. It's also very important to pray for white supremacists, blessing them and doing good to them, since someday they may repent of their sins and love all people no matter their skin color, ethnicity, and any other difference. After all, the Kingdom of Heaven includes people "from every nation, tribe, people and language" (Revelation 7:9b).

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Old 21st November 2016, 1:22 PM   #13
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From an outsider ( not an American) I've heard a lot about Trump being " godly ordained" to be *the leader of the free world. He seems like a complete buffoon to me. However, the choices ( out of democrats and Republicans) weren't exactly great either.

Does anyone have any ideas on this? What opinions do people have about Trump being " ordained by God"

thanks
*There is no 'leader of the free world.'

That idea is nothing but jingoistic nonsense, spouted for domestic propaganda in the US.

The 'ordained by god' idea is also nonsense.

Were Idi Amin and Pol Pot also ordained by god?

I don't think so
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Old 21st November 2016, 1:24 PM   #14
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As someone from across the other side of The Pond, I think *Trump's relationship with God is his business, and no-one else's
*I don't think God has much interest in the hotel business.

Too busy with other things.
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Old 21st November 2016, 2:19 PM   #15
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I always think this religious talk is about justifying hatred towards anything that represents 'other' (ie homosexual, female, people of colour, jews, muslims, etc).
And to justify plain old greed and callousness.
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