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Narcissism and Hoovering...vs. Sincerity


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Old 19th December 2017, 1:26 AM   #16
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Projection of feelings is common tactic among those with NPD.
They blame others for the feelings they don't like.

My advice is too run as fast as you can and never look back.
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Old 19th December 2017, 8:26 AM   #17
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She is thousands of miles away and across an ocean, so keeping our distance will not be a problem. But, going NC is not an option just yet. We have a few things to clear up and hopefully, I'm being honest here, we can go our separate ways, both better for it eventually.
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Old 19th December 2017, 10:27 AM   #18
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My ex's accusation that I was hoovering was a little unsettling.
Simple, the human condition is that whenever we experience very intense feelings -- as occurs when we are dumped -- our judgment flies out the window. The intense feelings distort and color our perception of the other person's intentions and motivations. Hence, given how upset and hurt your exGF is at this time, it is unrealistic for you to believe you can somehow clarify everything for her. It also is unrealistic to expect her to see your true intentions when you tried to apologize and make amends.

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Now I feel that no matter what I do, it will be looked at as 'hoovering', a tactic/set of behaviors narcissists use to lure their 'victim' back.
"Hoovering" is a behavior that we all use to pull our loved one back into the relationship. This pulling can be so strong that it is comparable to the suction of the well-known vacuum. The term usually is used to refer to the pull-you-back phase of BPDer and narcissistic relationships because they are notorious for exhibiting a repeating cycle of push-away and pull-back.

The hoovering behavior is not the same, however, for those two groups. Because a narcissist is incapable of love, he will suck the Ex back into the R/S by using deceit and manipulation. He highly values his Ex not because he loves her but, rather, because he desperately needs her narcissistic supply (i.e., her continual "validation" of his false self identity of being the Special One).

In contrast, a BPDer usually intensely loves his partner, albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love. His hoovering therefore takes the form of love bombing, i.e., a genuine expression of intense love. This becomes a problem for that partner because, after she returns, the BPDer will lose all contact with those loving feelings as soon as his engulfment fear is triggered (an event that can occur in ten seconds). At that point, the push/pull cycle starts all over again.
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Old 19th December 2017, 12:12 PM   #19
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Simple, the human condition is that whenever we experience very intense feelings -- as occurs when we are dumped -- our judgment flies out the window. The intense feelings distort and color our perception of the other person's intentions and motivations. Hence, given how upset and hurt your exGF is at this time, it is unrealistic for you to believe you can somehow clarify everything for her. It also is unrealistic to expect her to see your true intentions when you tried to apologize and make amends.

"Hoovering" is a behavior that we all use to pull our loved one back into the relationship. This pulling can be so strong that it is comparable to the suction of the well-known vacuum. The term usually is used to refer to the pull-you-back phase of BPDer and narcissistic relationships because they are notorious for exhibiting a repeating cycle of push-away and pull-back.

The hoovering behavior is not the same, however, for those two groups. Because a narcissist is incapable of love, he will suck the Ex back into the R/S by using deceit and manipulation. He highly values his Ex not because he loves her but, rather, because he desperately needs her narcissistic supply (i.e., her continual "validation" of his false self identity of being the Special One).

In contrast, a BPDer usually intensely loves his partner, albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love. His hoovering therefore takes the form of love bombing, i.e., a genuine expression of intense love. This becomes a problem for that partner because, after she returns, the BPDer will lose all contact with those loving feelings as soon as his engulfment fear is triggered (an event that can occur in ten seconds). At that point, the push/pull cycle starts all over again.
Well, I am very capable of love and have never been accused of being bi-polar.

I don't know. My ex-wife is certainly very pissed and yet continues communication. I think giving her time to vent is ok. Anyway...
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Old 19th December 2017, 6:58 PM   #20
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She's a physician so she is used to diagnosing things. Being heart-broken sucks and it sounds like she classified you in order to make sense of your coldness and rationalize the rejection; I've never heard NPD addressed as something that someone suddenly becomes--I would think if you were that it would have shown up throughout the relationship, and that she wouldn't just be pointing examples out post breakup.

I don't think this has much to do with you--I doubt many narcissists would be interested in feedback from therapy and others about their flaws (though some go because they believe it will validate them and prove the other person wrong). It's always good to analyze our behavior and apologize if you feel the need to, knowing your actions were not handled in the best manner or were hurtful... but that's where I would stop the contact. If she truly thinks you're as awful as she claims, she should be happy you're not in a relationship any more.
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Old 19th December 2017, 10:50 PM   #21
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She's a physician so she is used to diagnosing things. Being heart-broken sucks and it sounds like she classified you in order to make sense of your coldness and rationalize the rejection; I've never heard NPD addressed as something that someone suddenly becomes--I would think if you were that it would have shown up throughout the relationship, and that she wouldn't just be pointing examples out post breakup.

I don't think this has much to do with you--I doubt many narcissists would be interested in feedback from therapy and others about their flaws (though some go because they believe it will validate them and prove the other person wrong). It's always good to analyze our behavior and apologize if you feel the need to, knowing your actions were not handled in the best manner or were hurtful... but that's where I would stop the contact. If she truly thinks you're as awful as she claims, she should be happy you're not in a relationship any more.
Will be seeing my therapist later this week. Will discuss a plan of action. I am at a loss to be honest. I am struggling to find a way out of this w/o creating more pain, but it seems I may have to, in the short term, to get us both in a place of healing again. Damn guilt and conscience, but some of what I must do will feel very counter-intuitive. Ugh.
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Old 19th December 2017, 11:34 PM   #22
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Will be seeing my therapist later this week. Will discuss a plan of action. I am at a loss to be honest. I am struggling to find a way out of this w/o creating more pain, but it seems I may have to, in the short term, to get us both in a place of healing again. Damn guilt and conscience, but some of what I must do will feel very counter-intuitive. Ugh.
what do you have to do that is counter intuitive?...deb
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Old 20th December 2017, 6:17 AM   #23
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what do you have to do that is counter intuitive?...deb
tdb,

I have always been taught to go all out and take FULL responsibility for my actions. When you've wronged someone admit to your failures and SHOW them that you are contrite and demonstrate by follow-throughing and being consistent. I've always had this notion that you needed to be supportive and be there for the people you love. Now, it would appear that my 'presence' and communication is not a catalyst for healing, rather more pain and a hindrance to said healing. My good intentions were more damaging and frankly, self-serving and selfish. I didn't really think about it until it was too late.

For her to heal, I have to, again, let her go. I effed-up here. I have to let her heal and myself, of course.
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Old 20th December 2017, 6:33 AM   #24
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tdb,

I have always been taught to go all out and take FULL responsibility for my actions. When you've wronged someone admit to your failures and SHOW them that you are contrite and demonstrate by follow-throughing and being consistent. I've always had this notion that you needed to be supportive and be there for the people you love. Now, it would appear that my 'presence' and communication is not a catalyst for healing, rather more pain and a hindrance to said healing. My good intentions were more damaging and frankly, self-serving and selfish. I didn't really think about it until it was too late.

For her to heal, I have to, again, let her go. I effed-up here. I have to let her heal and myself, of course.

hey simples, i feel you are trying to do the right thing...sometimes no matter how hard you try to think things through and fix things...you cant and it is best just to let go for both your sakes before it drives you insane......i wish you well simples....good luck...deb
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Old 20th December 2017, 7:01 AM   #25
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hey simples, i feel you are trying to do the right thing...sometimes no matter how hard you try to think things through and fix things...you cant and it is best just to let go for both your sakes before it drives you insane......i wish you well simples....good luck...deb
Thanks.

I had a very long conversation with a very good friend of mine last night and I was bludgeoned with the reality of what I was doing. Ack. I am so disappointed in myself.
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Old 20th December 2017, 1:24 PM   #26
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1) Narcissists don't go NC. They might give the silent treatment. But they never go NC, in an effort to totally remove oneself from another's life for the reasons that you did. I will say that narcissists might certainly accuse a person who went NC on them of being cold and awful and a hideously terrible person, though. It is an extreme offense to their ego.

2) Narcissists don't typically realize that they have done someone wrong and make efforts to apologize, without lots of therapy and extreme self-reflection. And that is not what a hoover is anyway. A hoover is an effort to re-engage with a person, to re-establish the emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship cycle.

3) Narcissists don't make therapy appointments when their girlfriends accuse them of hoovering when all they believed they wanted to do was apologize.

I'm not saying it's not appropriate to evaluate your motives. And perhaps it's still better for you to just leave her alone and let her heal. Your apology IS more for your needs than hers. Sometimes we want to make amends and it is simply not received the way we hoped. Not everyone forgives. If that's the case, we do have to just let it go.

Most narcissists, if accused of being a narcissist, don't immediately go...really?? I'm a narcissist? Oh no! And start researching and asking everyone around them questions. They will assume the other person is wrong and move on.
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Old 20th December 2017, 6:12 PM   #27
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Thank you Southern. I have, over the days, spent a considerable amount of time speaking with friends and family, counselor regarding this. I have never 'truly' felt that I am a narcissist, but I also did not dismiss my ex's motivations for claiming so. She is very angry and conflicted and I know that much of this has to do with these negative feelings she has for me now. Part of this post was a way for me to determine a tactful way of disagreeing w/o fanning the flames. My most recent conversation with her was much more agreeable and I suspect she doesn't truly feel that I am a narcissist.

Never the less, I need to be a solution and that will likely mean that I go NC...again. Damn. I hate it. Hate it.
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Old 20th December 2017, 7:12 PM   #28
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Thanks.

I had a very long conversation with a very good friend of mine last night and I was bludgeoned with the reality of what I was doing. Ack. I am so disappointed in myself.
you know what simples some people never get to realise they are making mistakes so they make them continuously over and over again....self realization is a blessing ...it means you get to better yourself and you realize you have wronged another.....thats a blessing because you did whats right....you apologised.......in my opinion you have had personal growth that cant be learned any other way than to make a mistake and you learn from it.....and you have...take it positive simples....

so to you i write, its been refreshing to see that growth and the honesty that you have posted in your posts...thankyou for sharing..i wish you the very best and continued personal growth..deb

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Old 20th December 2017, 8:31 PM   #29
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you know what simples some people never get to realise they are making mistakes so they make them continuously over and over again....self realization is a blessing ...it means you get to better yourself and you realize you have wronged another.....thats a blessing because you did whats right....you apologised.......in my opinion you have had personal growth that cant be learned any other way than to make a mistake and you learn from it.....and you have...take it positive simples....

so to you i write, its been refreshing to see that growth and the honesty that you have posted in your posts...thankyou for sharing..i wish you the very best and continued personal growth..deb
Thank you. I have much work to do.

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Old 22nd December 2017, 11:37 PM   #30
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Hoovering i think is a form of 'charm' and manipulation with a view to 'sucking' somebody back in. If you're merely apologising without expecting anything in return, it is unlikely you are hoovering.
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