Is Spanking Wrong?

[Nyla]

I am currently seeing a therapist, partly to process the abuse I suffered in my childhood and learn how it affected me as an adult.

 

I was abused physically as a child, as well as verbally and emotionally. My mother was the culprit, but my father was just as bad because he never stopped her until I had a nervous breakdown at 19. I forgive my dad because I know he is a quiet sweetheart who was afraid of my mother. My therapist discusses the way I should have been disciplined as a kid and she says that spankings are never necessary. We disagree on this.

 

While I don't think abuse is acceptable, I do think spankings are just fine. My husband says that I think this way because of how I was raised, but I disagree since I am not advocating abuse. A slap on the butt is not the same as the kicks and bites I got from my mother. To be honest, I think kids these days have FAR TOO MUCH power. Parents cannot slap their children without fear of the law getting involved.

 

I know that culture often plays a role because all of my old classmates with Canadian parents were never spanked. In fact, the kids whose parents were Canadian were very disrespectful and rebellious. The children I grew up with, who also had immigrant parents were spanked and they were well behaved. I know that being hit kept me on the straight and narrow, until I had enough of the abuse and fled my parent's home at age 21. I will still being hit by them at that time and I was subjected to sexist rules, so I finally got fed up.

 

Too bad I was never good enough for my mom until I left home and it was too late the salvage a relationship. She likes to compliment me now, but I keep my distance since I do not feel emotionally safe with my mother.

 

What do the parents on LS think? Are my therapist and husband right or is spanking ok?

[todreaminblue]

I am currently seeing a therapist, partly to process the abuse I suffered in my childhood and learn how it affected me as an adult.

 

I was abused physically as a child, as well as verbally and emotionally. My mother was the culprit, but my father was just as bad because he never stopped her until I had a nervous breakdown at 19. I forgive my dad because I know he is a quiet sweetheart who was afraid of my mother. My therapist discusses the way I should have been disciplined as a kid and she says that spankings are never necessary. We disagree on this.

 

While I don't think abuse is acceptable, I do think spankings are just fine. My husband says that I think this way because of how I was raised, but I disagree since I am not advocating abuse. A slap on the butt is not the same as the kicks and bites I got from my mother. To be honest, I think kids these days have FAR TOO MUCH power. Parents cannot slap their children without fear of the law getting involved.

 

I know that culture often plays a role because all of my old classmates with Canadian parents were never spanked. In fact, the kids whose parents were Canadian were very disrespectful and rebellious. The children I grew up with, who also had immigrant parents were spanked and they were well behaved. I know that being hit kept me on the straight and narrow, until I had enough of the abuse and fled my parent's home at age 21. I will still being hit by them at that time and I was subjected to sexist rules, so I finally got fed up.

 

Too bad I was never good enough for my mom until I left home and it was too late the salvage a relationship. She likes to compliment me now, but I keep my distance since I do not feel emotionally safe with my mother.

 

What do the parents on LS think? Are my therapist and husband right or is spanking ok?

 

 

spare the rod spoil the child.....the schooling system is rife with kids who beat up other kids, bully, abuse, walk out of class throw bombs do what ever....tell a teach to f off if they dont want to do their homework.....corporal punishment....equalled less problems...there si more crime and dissention in school and at home because this spanking thing has been dropped......theres a difference between discipline and abuse...and it seems by dropping the discipline in a school situation even, hasnt improved anything....not a thing...made it worse...more problems and actually more abuse but perpetrated by kids that feel they can do anything they want...why worry ...they just get to stay home or move schools...there is no fear....children need to have limits and be mindful that ....if they dont.....they are the ones who will suffer...i am not a disciplinarian....i was disciplined as a child......i do not think discipline is wrong....i just cant hit unless in self defense....i have however smacked my daughters a long time ago and when i was with a partner he was a disciplinarian, i feel sometimes my daughters have a higher level of respect and " healthy fear" of doing the wrong thing in regards to him and not me.....deb

[sb129]

Well its a moot point where I live because its illegal. Not that that stops everyone, but the child abuse here is absolutely horrific and the anti-smacking bill was introduced to try and reduce some of that, making everyone accountable.

 

I have a 3.5 year old and there are times that they can drive you INSANE, but I actually agree that smacking isn't really an effective form of discipline- the only time I have raised my hand to my daughter I felt terrible afterwards and it really upset her. I think she had been about to run out on the road or something like that and it was a knee-jerk reaction.

 

That said- she hasn't done it again!

 

We manage to discipline her effectively without smacking- there are other ways to get her to toe the line that usually involve removal of privileges/favourite toys/ going to bed early that kind of thing.

 

Luckily to date she's responded really well to this and is generally a good kid, some kids may need a firmer approach. I;m glad we don't need to though, I would hate to be a regular smacker.

[pteromom]

It can be effective if used sparingly and non-emotionally.

 

BUT -

 

1. It's really taking the easy way out. There are SOOOO many ways to motivate and communicate with a child, and hitting them is not at the top of the list of the "best" ways.

 

2. It escalates a situation when what you want to do is calm everyone down. As a parent, you want to deal with tough situations being calm and cool and collected, and model for your child how to deal with difficult emotions through example.

 

3. It doesn't teach anything, except that "I can't disappoint Mommy or she'll hit me." It's better to cultivate a relationship of trust and security, and use your intelligence, creativity, and communication to solve the issue WITH your child.

 

4. It sends a message to a child that he/she isn't in complete control of his/her body. I teach my child that his body is his, and that nobody else has the right to touch it without his permission. Spanking would contradict that message.

 

5. It's disrespectful. I would never hit my spouse, or boss, or neighbor, or pet, simply because they didn't meet my expectations. So why is it OK to hit my child?

 

That's just off the top of my head, but I will summarize with this: It isn't a good idea, and you can do better.

[soccerrprp]

It can be effective if used sparingly and non-emotionally.

 

BUT -

 

1. It's really taking the easy way out. There are SOOOO many ways to motivate and communicate with a child, and hitting them is not at the top of the list of the "best" ways.

 

2. It escalates a situation when what you want to do is calm everyone down. As a parent, you want to deal with tough situations being calm and cool and collected, and model for your child how to deal with difficult emotions through example.

 

3. It doesn't teach anything, except that "I can't disappoint Mommy or she'll hit me." It's better to cultivate a relationship of trust and security, and use your intelligence, creativity, and communication to solve the issue WITH your child.

 

4. It sends a message to a child that he/she isn't in complete control of his/her body. I teach my child that his body is his, and that nobody else has the right to touch it without his permission. Spanking would contradict that message.

 

5. It's disrespectful. I would never hit my spouse, or boss, or neighbor, or pet, simply because they didn't meet my expectations. So why is it OK to hit my child?

 

That's just off the top of my head, but I will summarize with this: It isn't a good idea, and you can do better.

 

Dang, I love this!

 

It can be effective if used sparingly and non-emotionally.

 

When do use physical violence (and spanking is) w/o emotion? It doesn't happen. You are pissed, frightened, shocked and then you hit! Emotions are always in play.

 

I do not hit my children. No need. I used to get the crap beaten out of me as a child and it didn't stop me from making bone-headed mistakes or openly defying my parents again and again (not too many agains... ). My mother regrets having ever used physical punishment to this day, but back in the day, that's what everyone was told should be done. Violence begets violence.

 

What did I learn from the days of corporal punishment, not to do it. I turned out great (I would like to believe), but it is clearly not necessary nor the best way to teach your children about making good decisions.

[pteromom]

Dang, I love this!

 

It can be effective if used sparingly and non-emotionally.

 

When do use physical violence (and spanking is) w/o emotion? It doesn't happen. You are pissed, frightened, shocked and then you hit! Emotions are always in play.

 

I do not hit my children. No need. I used to get the crap beaten out of me as a child and it didn't stop me from making bone-headed mistakes or openly defying my parents again and again (not too many agains... ). My mother regrets having ever used physical punishment to this day, but back in the day, that's what everyone was told should be done. Violence begets violence.

 

What did I learn from the days of corporal punishment, not to do it. I turned out great (I would like to believe), but it is clearly not necessary nor the best way to teach your children about making good decisions.

 

I do know parents who spank non-emotionally. They do it very intentionally after talking with the child. I do not agree with this approach, but it does seem to work.

 

I am with you. I was spanked as a child, and all it did for me is make me feel unsafe and confused. (How can Mommy snuggle me and tell me she loves me one minute, then yell and hit me the next?)

 

Nyla, you said yourself that the way your parents raised you made you feel not-good-enough and made you want to flee the moment you could. Is that what you want for your own child(ren)? If not, then it is time to put away the option of spanking, and instead choose teaching respect through GIVING respect.

[pteromom]

Violence begets violence.

 

And yes, this! Never underestimate the value of MODELING BEHAVIOR. Children cannot hit others to solve problems, so you can't hit others to solve yours.

[pteromom]

corporal punishment....equalled less problems...there si more crime and dissention in school and at home because this spanking thing has been dropped

 

I do not believe that the crime and problems are due to dropping spanking. I think there are a bunch of reasons for it...

 

- kids don't have any responsibility these days. In the old days, they had to get up and help their parents with the farm or the dishes or whatever. Now, they just play and wait for stuff to come to them.

- our media glorifies gangsters and drug dealers and criminals and rebels, and portrays nice people as patsies who get walked over.

- schools do not have the authority to simply expel or punish children who do not meet expectations, because parents demand their children are treated like kings/queens

- many parents are scared to parent. This doesn't mean HITTING. But it does mean you have to be able to take the risk that your child may be mad at you, and might not wanna be your best friend.

 

That's part of it. But nothing but good can come from NOT spanking. If we can get to be a civilization where the idea of striking another person is absolutely appalling, then that will be a big step in the RIGHT direction. And it starts with our children.

[Nyla]

I can remember my mom being very kind to me soon after the beatings. I think she calmed down and felt very guilty afterwards. She also didn't like it when I was too afraid to tell her I made a mistake. If parents foster an atmosphere of fear and violence, they cannot be surprised when their kids are too scared to come to them.

 

Now my mom is an old woman. Sometimes she'll say: "I was too harsh on my kids. I had a bad temper and I just didn't want them to turn out badly." That is the closest I will ever get to an apology from my mom. I accept it because I don't think she knew any better. Also, I am 31 years old and I cannot keep being angry with my parents for the rest of my life.

 

I'm glad my parents never demanded that we be treated like royalty at school. They wanted us to experience consequences and in my old school days, expulsion, failures and suspension was normal. I went to strict Catholic schools.

 

AtheistScholar, your daughter deserved that smack in the mouth. She had no right to call her mother such a vile name.

[soccerrprp]

I do know parents who spank non-emotionally. They do it very intentionally after talking with the child. I do not agree with this approach, but it does seem to work.

 

pteromom,

 

My response to this is- WHAAAAAT??!

 

So, they talk to the child about the whys and whats of the behavior, the child presumably understands and for added measure, the child is then hit. Yeah, doesn't make sense to me.

 

So, the lesson, here is that even after coming to an understanding, creating a teaching moment w/o the use of violence being necessary, you use violence to top it all off....what a crappy lesson to teach.

[TaraMaiden]

I strongly disapprove of smacking or spanking a child.

 

I thing I too, only ever smacked my children so rarely, I could count the times on the fingers of one hand between them... And I always apologised.

 

Never for the reason, but for the action.

 

I may have had good cause to get angry - I never, ever had just cause or right to lay a finger on them.

 

if you were to hit an adult in the same way, they would have a legal recourse of action against you for assault.

 

Hitting a younger, defenceless child, who has no right or means to either retaliate or defend themselves is unacceptable to me.

 

My daughters are well-adjusted, wonderful individuals whom I also count as my close friends.

They never gave me any cause to question my decision.

 

So, yes.

In my book, spanking is utterly wrong.

 

I've had 56 years on this planet, and nobody has as yet managed to convince me I'm wrong or misguided in my view.

[xxoo]

I believe spanking is wrong.

 

I've smacked each of my children a few times, between the ages of 3 and 7. I don't think it was the right thing to do, even in the moment. I was exasperated, and made a crappy decision. It happens. I apologized when I'd calmed down, and worked out ways to prevent getting to that point of exasperation in the future.

 

My first rule is model the behavior want them to learn. If you want them to learn self control, problem solving, and cooperation, model that.

[tbf]

Nyla, I'm a bit confused. You don't want children so I'm uncertain why this is an issue for you.

 

As far as myself, none of us were spanked or physically disciplined in any manner. All four of us have grown up with successful careers where the lowest income level is in the six figures. We're also married, where not everyone has kids.

 

We don't spank our oldest who's a toddler. Our second is an infant who also won't be spanked anytime in his life. There's no need for it. It's incredibly easy to stay ahead of children and explain things in terms they understand.

[Roadkill007]

The main issue of the application of spanking to "teach a lesson", is that even if you explain exactly WHY you are delivering a spanking, unless the spanking was within a few seconds of the actual wrong deed, the lesson isn't learned subconsciously. Thus, I don't consider it effective enough to use, even if I did think it wasn't wrong. Growing up, I was beaten on occasion, so I don't quite view spanking as that harsh a thing, especially if the spanking is more focused on the dominance aspect rather than the inflicting pain aspect. While letting your child grow is important, and while violence doesn't "teach", I don't find there being anything wrong with establishing dominance over children. That said, I don't think spanking is even an appropriate tool to use except perhaps the preteen years, so yea.

[soccerrprp]

Nyla, I'm a bit confused. You don't want children so I'm uncertain why this is an issue for you.

 

As far as myself, none of us were spanked or physically disciplined in any manner. All four of us have grown up with successful careers where the lowest income level is in the six figures. We're also married, where not everyone has kids.

 

We don't spank our oldest who's a toddler. Our second is an infant who also won't be spanked anytime in his life. There's no need for it. It's incredibly easy to stay ahead of children and explain things in terms they understand.

 

Yes. My feeling is that the use of physical punishment is the easy out. Too many parents don't want to put in the energy to preemptively and engagingly discipline their children. Too much work talking to them like sentient beings that learn.

 

That's my singular view anyway.

[HokeyReligions]

pteromom,

 

My response to this is- WHAAAAAT??!

 

So, they talk to the child about the whys and whats of the behavior, the child presumably understands and for added measure, the child is then hit. Yeah, doesn't make sense to me.

 

So, the lesson, here is that even after coming to an understanding, creating a teaching moment w/o the use of violence being necessary, you use violence to top it all off....what a crappy lesson to teach.

 

Spanking reinforces the discussion. Anyone who is a parent should know that a child's brain is not developed enough that a discussion is is going to work. There is a difference between spanking and abuse. I spanked and I was spanked. In both cases it was never a knee-jerk reaction but a planned punishment.

 

The only time I swatted my kids - or anyone else's kids is if they were in immediate danger. Nowadays one can't even tell other kids to pipedown or take their fingers out of their noses in church or a restaurant without fear of being sued. If its going to take a village then let the village help. All parents need help sometimes.

[xxoo]

Spanking reinforces the discussion. Anyone who is a parent should know that a child's brain is not developed enough that a discussion is is going to work. There is a difference between spanking and abuse. I spanked and I was spanked. In both cases it was never a knee-jerk reaction but a planned punishment.

 

The only time I swatted my kids - or anyone else's kids is if they were in immediate danger. Nowadays one can't even tell other kids to pipedown or take their fingers out of their noses in church or a restaurant without fear of being sued. If its going to take a village then let the village help. All parents need help sometimes.

 

You hit other people's kids?

 

I've got a village. We don't spank. It's working out fine.

[tbf]

Yes. My feeling is that the use of physical punishment is the easy out. Too many parents don't want to put in the energy to preemptively and engagingly discipline their children. Too much work talking to them like sentient beings that learn.

 

That's my singular view anyway.

This is my view too. Our near three year old is full of sunshine and energy. But his understanding is growing in leaps and bounds so his testing of boundaries lessons daily. We started the explanation process since Day 1 and now he's capable of rationally making simple decisions. People give children far less credit than they deserve.

[soccerrprp]

Spanking reinforces the discussion. Anyone who is a parent should know that a child's brain is not developed enough that a discussion is is going to work. There is a difference between spanking and abuse. I spanked and I was spanked. In both cases it was never a knee-jerk reaction but a planned punishment.

 

The only time I swatted my kids - or anyone else's kids is if they were in immediate danger. Nowadays one can't even tell other kids to pipedown or take their fingers out of their noses in church or a restaurant without fear of being sued. If its going to take a village then let the village help. All parents need help sometimes.

 

My children are exceptionally well behaved and disciplined. 5 and 7 years old. Never had to hit. Spanking is not needed to reinforce the discussion. I've used time-outs with great success and sometimes some close body restraint (those were the bad times )

 

It's a good thing my very young children and I didn't know that they could be disciplined by reasoning and discussion alone.

[TaraMaiden]

I distinctly have a fixed and definite memory - it's not imagined - of playing my dad off against my mum, when I wanted something.

 

I know this memory is real, because when I mentioned it to my parents, once, questioning my recall, my father confirmed it...

 

I was just over 2 years old.

 

Give kids credit.

They're brighter and more receptive than you'd ever think.

 

And they don't call them terrible two's for nothing.

 

Children begin to gain spatial awareness at this age.

So they actually begin to recognise - and realise - that their mother and father are actually separate entities. Not attached, not programmed to obey.

 

Separate.

Not always compliant.

So kids begin, at this age, to push the boundaries to 'regain control'.

 

Before this age, they have no concept of other people being separate... when they cry, someone comes running... they get fed, clothed, held, cuddled... so it naturally follows that these other people must be attached, no?

 

No.

 

And around the age of 2, this begins to sink in...

 

so the 'terrible twos' are just children realising that the world they always knew is changing.... and not always in ways that are comfortable to them.

[soccerrprp]

My children are exceptionally well behaved and disciplined. 5 and 7 years old. Never had to hit. Spanking is not needed to reinforce the discussion. I've used time-outs with great success and sometimes some close body restraint (those were the bad times )

 

It's a good thing my very young children and I didn't know that they could NOT be disciplined by reasoning and discussion alone.

 

Dang it, forgot the word NOT (in bold).

[HokeyReligions]

You hit other people's kids?

 

I've got a village. We don't spank. It's working out fine.

 

NO i did not "hit" other peoples kids but I certainty disciplined them if they needed it. I guess now I would just call the police and get child protectve services involved and claim the parents were neglecting their kids. Now tell me if your kid was seriously misbehaving and I took their arm to remove something they shouldn't have or be throwing and swatted their behind if they had a fit over it and the incident be done, or get child welfare involved where you would end up on their radar wit a permanent record of possible neglect or abuse which would you prefer? I have also stepped in when I saw a child being too harshly punished and the parent obviously "losing it" trying to control theit kid.

[TaraMaiden]

Watch this, it's so funny......

[HokeyReligions]

My kids were great. My daughter went to a private school for exceptionl children. They used to call them Indigo children. Her reasoning and recall were amazing. She and my son both knew when they did something wrong because we had discussed it before and they knew they were in for a spankin for some of the infractions. Neither needed to be spanked more than a couple of times. They knew it was a possibility and that knowing was all they needed.

 

Both were well behaved and respectful. Even as early boundry-pushing teens they knew how far was far enough and I knew how much and when to let go.

[xxoo]

NO i did not "hit" other peoples kids but I certainty disciplined them if they needed it. I guess now I would just call the police and get child protectve services involved and claim the parents were neglecting their kids. Now tell me if your kid was seriously misbehaving and I took their arm to remove something they shouldn't have or be throwing and swatted their behind if they had a fit over it and the incident be done, or get child welfare involved where you would end up on their radar wit a permanent record of possible neglect or abuse which would you prefer? I have also stepped in when I saw a child being too harshly punished and the parent obviously "losing it" trying to control theit kid.

 

I can't relate to any of this at all. I'd certainly prefer neither, and I'm sure I could handle the situation without hitting/swatting the child or calling the authorities. If child welfare involvement is actually appropriate, they should be called regardless for the child's sake.