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On the verge of separation...


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I've been married 6 years, and my wife has told me 3 weeks ago she wants to separate. Struggling to cope with this and after advice.

 

History:

when we got married we moved away from our hometown for my work. My wife had a daughter (2 1/2 at the time) and fell pregnant very early on in our marriage. She struggled with pregnancy and had trouble walking etc meaning I was doing a lot of the school drop off/pick ups/lunch visits (as our eldest has a disability). This caused tension at work and I was feeling pressure from both sides (my work involved working evenings & weekends). My wife felt I had abandoned her, while work were angry at me for taking 15 minutes off during the day to sort my daughter out at school. As a result I ended up being off work with anxiety through my boss' attitude & bullying for 9 months. My wife had terrible Post Natal and struggled to bond with our 2nd daughter, all the while trying to support me through my issues. We moved back 'home' after 3 years away,and those 3 years regularly come back at me from my wife who says I was never around, didn't care or listen to her. Our 3rd child was 6 weeks when we moved back home.

 

My wife would once a year decide she couldn't cope with me any more and want to leave, but change her mind.

 

Since moving home, I have been the main carer of our children. From the start I had responsibility for all paperwork (bills/appointments/shopping/cooking) etc...

 

My wife was depressed after our 3rd child was born but would not admit it or want to try and get better. She would go to bed early to read and stay awake late and wake up late morning, after I had taken kids to school (I would have to wake her up as I was leaving for work for her to look after the little one).

 

She got a job which meant I took on more of the childcare and had to organise my day around children, sorting out babysitters when I was supposed to be in work etc... My wife struggled at work and I was pleased when she decided she had to leave (after 18 months)

 

I found a job that was ideal for her and after applying she was accepted. She has been working for 6 months and loves work, it is in line with her passions and degree and she enjoys getting up in the morning to go to work. She cannot drive so I have consistently driven her to and from work (1 hour round journey=2 hours a day for me) because I felt that she needed as little pressure as possible. I have been happy to do this for her. All the while, I am still working, and now picking up some more work as self employed, and still sorting kids out for school in the morning, cooking food for them, paperwork etc...

 

Now my wife has told me she wants to separate. She feels pressured and uncomfortable at home, but happy at work. She says that my helping out is one of the things that doesn't help. She brings up all the stuff I did (or didn't do) since we got married and adds them together.

 

Our sex life is virtually non existent (she stopped trying a couple of years ago, but the usual pattern was when she wanted it I wasn't in a good place, and vice versa)

 

She spends a lot of time on her phone and has changed passwords etc... I have confronted her and she says she's not cheating on me (she has also said this to a close friend of ours who questioned her) - I'm sure this is what she would say regardless but I'd like to believe her. She has lied to me about where she was (I had a gut feeling and checked her 'find my phone')

 

I am broken. I admit (and have admitted) that I wasn't great in the first 3 years (although external circumstance, and my depression, her post natal were factors). Since moving home I have tried my hardest to allow her to do stuff she enjoys, to take pressure off at home so she can focus on work.

 

She says I am a fantastic dad and she doesn't want that to change, but she needs her emotional and physical needs met and I am not the one to provide that for her. She has given up trying. She wants the easy life without having to worry about the kids/paperwork etc... while I have no thanks from her for what I have tried to do.

 

Sorry for the long post.

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Chances of third party involvement are extremely high.

 

So she wants to separate - when is she moving out?

 

She has suggested I move out for a while, which I have refused to do. I have told her I need time to think. I will be sticking to my guns and staying put.

 

She has been away with work this week and will be back in a couple of days so my plan is to step back from helping her out (which is completely against my nature and will be tough). I am trying to plan time when I will be out in the evenings with other friends etc... so she has the space at home, but also all the children, meaning she'll have to entertain them and feed them (which has been the role I have had for 3 years). I am also going to stop taking her to work and ask her to find appropriate train times and I'll drop her off at the station (saving me 2 hours driving).

 

If she is adamant one of us moves out, I will make sure it is her (she will demand I have to tell the kids why mummy is no longer at home, which will be tough and I will deal with that if it happens)

 

We are still talking, spending time in the same room together with no issues, but I can only see it going downhill from here. I love her dearly and it will hurt me no end to withdraw my supportive nature from her, but I know I need to try if there is a chance she will come back to me.

 

I'd appreciate any advice from people who have been in a similar position as to what works in increasing chances of reconciliation.

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She has suggested I move out for a while, which I have refused to do. I have told her I need time to think. I will be sticking to my guns and staying put.

I guessed the first part - they always say that. "I want to separate, when are you going to move out?"... glad to hear you're not being her doormat. She wants to separate, she can move out. Don't let her kick you out of the bed either - if she wants to sleep separate, she can move.

 

it will hurt me no end to withdraw my supportive nature from her, but I know I need to try if there is a chance she will come back to me.

Right. She has said she wants to separate, you need to show her what life will be like without you running all her errands and taxiing her around. Don't even drop her off at the station.

 

She might complain and whine and insult you, but you're giving her exactly what she asked for. Separation. If she wants to take it back then you can talk, but if she insists on separation, then separation it is. Don't do any half measures, don't let her have her cake and eat it.

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First, you need to set up a consultation with an attorney. Although it sounds as though she would prefer not to have the responsibility of caring for the kids, she may fight you for them nonetheless. I hate to say it, but I know women who fight for custody because of what other people will think if they don't.

 

(In your wife's case, since she has a daughter of her own, it is likely that she will be even less inclined to give up custody.)

 

You need to know your rights & be prepared.

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(she will demand I have to tell the kids why mummy is no longer at home, which will be tough and I will deal with that if it happens)

Yes that's tough but believe me, it's a lot better for you to tell the kids why mummy is moving out, than for her to tell the kids why mummy is moving out! Goodness knows what story she would spin, and what light she would paint you in.

 

So if/when it happens, I would make sure you volunteer for the hard job of telling the kids.

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I guessed the first part - they always say that. "I want to separate, when are you going to move out?"... glad to hear you're not being her doormat. She wants to separate, she can move out. Don't let her kick you out of the bed either - if she wants to sleep separate, she can move.

 

 

Right. She has said she wants to separate, you need to show her what life will be like without you running all her errands and taxiing her around. Don't even drop her off at the station.

 

She might complain and whine and insult you, but you're giving her exactly what she asked for. Separation. If she wants to take it back then you can talk, but if she insists on separation, then separation it is. Don't do any half measures, don't let her have her cake and eat it.

 

I've been on the sofa for a couple of weeks so already out of the bed!!

I'm going against everything I want to do but understand I need to give her what she wants. It's hard to remove what I give but I need to remember she doesn't want me to (or at least thinks that)

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First, you need to set up a consultation with an attorney. Although it sounds as though she would prefer not to have the responsibility of caring for the kids, she may fight you for them nonetheless. I hate to say it, but I know women who fight for custody because of what other people will think if they don't.

 

(In your wife's case, since she has a daughter of her own, it is likely that she will be even less inclined to give up custody.)

 

You need to know your rights & be prepared.

 

She'll absolutely want to be the main carer, and unfortunately I only have parental responsibility for our eldest through marriage. In the uk they tend to want to keep siblings together so she has the trump card, although I would fight for all of the kids. The issue is, she suggests I can pick them up free school and feed them until she finishes work. Like I said, she wants the ease of me being a great dad but not wanting to be my wife. I am fighting for both the kids and her

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She'll absolutely want to be the main carer, and unfortunately I only have parental responsibility for our eldest through marriage. In the uk they tend to want to keep siblings together so she has the trump card, although I would fight for all of the kids.

Yes unfortunately being female she has the trump card. As for fighting, you have to choose your battles. Fighting for every hour of contact you can get, especially through courts, is not necessarily in your children's, or your, best interests. You might want to get in contact with some groups such as families need fathers who may be able to offer better advice. You could also see a local solicitor or two, who can give you a free half hour of advice. You might want a pitbull for the finances but a friendly (but firm) type is better for child contact negotiations. Court should be a last resort only.

 

The issue is, she suggests I can pick them up free school and feed them until she finishes work. Like I said, she wants the ease of me being a great dad but not wanting to be my wife. I am fighting for both the kids and her

Well, does that arrangement work for you too? Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Many dads would give their right nut to see their kids every day after school. Don't stop being a great dad just because she takes it for granted.

 

The main concern is what's best for the kids. In the long term you're looking at two separate households and they will be spending some amount of time with each parent. What you need to do is sit down and come to an agreement about when each of you will look after them. Mutual agreement and compromise is a much better solution than fighting, for all involved, especially the kids.

 

You definitely should see a lawyer regarding the separation and impending divorce. Since many do a free half hour initial consultation, you lose nothing by arming yourself with knowledge and professional advice, and you can see more than one to get a range of opinions and find one you like.

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Yes unfortunately being female she has the trump card. As for fighting, you have to choose your battles. Fighting for every hour of contact you can get, especially through courts, is not necessarily in your children's, or your, best interests. You might want to get in contact with some groups such as families need fathers who may be able to offer better advice. You could also see a local solicitor or two, who can give you a free half hour of advice. You might want a pitbull for the finances but a friendly (but firm) type is better for child contact negotiations. Court should be a last resort only.

 

 

Well, does that arrangement work for you too? Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Many dads would give their right nut to see their kids every day after school. Don't stop being a great dad just because she takes it for granted.

 

The main concern is what's best for the kids. In the long term you're looking at two separate households and they will be spending some amount of time with each parent. What you need to do is sit down and come to an agreement about when each of you will look after them. Mutual agreement and compromise is a much better solution than fighting, for all involved, especially the kids.

 

You definitely should see a lawyer regarding the separation and impending divorce. Since many do a free half hour initial consultation, you lose nothing by arming yourself with knowledge and professional advice, and you can see more than one to get a range of opinions and find one you like.

 

I am intent on trying to save the marriage. I'm not after a divorce, or indeed, separation.It is very early stages at the moment so I want to do all I can to make reconciliation a possibility.

 

Is the 180 method a good way to go about this?

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Unfortunately when a wife says she wants to separate it is usually much too late to close the stable door. And that is doubled when there is another man involved (which you can bet your bottom dollar there is). The horse has bolted and is already halfway across the paddock. Wives and mothers do not say this kind of thing lightly, you can bet it's been brewing and she's been thinking about it for a long time.

 

The 180 is not some trick to make someone want you back. It's a way for you to deal with what's happening in the best way possible. It has the side effect that it puts you in a strong and assertive position, two very attractive traits, and if your wife wants to try again then this is your best chance. But it is not some kind of magical mind control that will change her mind. If she wants to separate and divorce then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

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I am intent on trying to save the marriage. I'm not after a divorce, or indeed, separation.It is very early stages at the moment so I want to do all I can to make reconciliation a possibility.

There are issues with both of you that, unless addressed, may make a successful marriage impossible,

 

Have you considered that separated might provide the two of you the best opportunity to get individual help? Given your description of your wife, her actions and state of mind, don't see how long-term you could have a functioning relationship with her...

 

Mr. Lucky

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There are issues with both of you that, unless addressed, may make a successful marriage impossible,

 

Have you considered that separated might provide the two of you the best opportunity to get individual help? Given your description of your wife, her actions and state of mind, don't see how long-term you could have a functioning relationship with her...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I'm sure individual counselling would help for me and her.

She has always been unhappy in some sense. Her childhood leaves a lot to be desired and she seems to want that extra bit more, and when she gets it is soon unhappy, needing a but more.

I know I cannot fix her and that is not my intention. I hope she can see what we are capable of together and running away from her promises she made to me might seem like they only option at the moment but may not be the best decision she makes.

I think counselling for her issues previous to our marriage would help and think possibly that if she is able to come to terms with all that happened she may be open to talk about our marriage.

I value your honesty, as with other replies and think it is better than sugar coating the issue. I hope with all I have that she will change her mind for the right reasons

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I hope with all I have that she will change her mind for the right reasons

 

Don't think it's a matter of choice or will power, just as an addict isn't just governed by a choice of whether or not to use.

 

Unless the underlying dysfunction is addressed, the road is very tough. You might get brief periods of engagement from her but some self-imposed crisis or dissatisfaction will always be just around the corner.

 

My point is, not sure you can get yourself, her and your marriage healthy at the same time and so might have to pick your battles. Wish you well, keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

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My wife will be back from work tomorrow evening so I've got a little time to prepare myself for a conversation I am not looking forward to. I am going to ask her straight whether she is cheating on me (physical, emotional etc...).

 

I've been holding off paying a few bills, making some phone calls, and sorting things out (that I usually sort), so if she is still adamant she wants to try a separation then I have these as things that she can sort out herself. I will also be telling her to take the train to work from now on (my concern with this is that I will push her away completely).

 

Like I said, it is completely against who I am to withdraw support so thoughts and prayers are appreciated for me to stay strong and assertive (I'm not good with words, and she is, meaning she can sometimes turn what I say into something negative of me, or shoot me down with a 'better' argument)

 

Thanks for reading/listening

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I have some reasonably strong evidence that suggests my wife has been cheating. Can anyone please give me advice on how to handle a conversation (not good with words, you see)

 

I cannot gather any more as she has changed all passwords etc...

 

thanks in advance

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GorillaTheater

If she is cheating, and she is asked whether she is cheating, she's likely eat broken glass before admitting the truth.

 

If there is no way for you to gather more information, be it a VAR under her car seat or a keylogger on her computer or an app on her phone, you may have to make a decision based only on what you know at this point.

 

But have you tried those other methods of intel gathering? I think talking about it with her will be pointless.

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If she is cheating, and she is asked whether she is cheating, she's likely eat broken glass before admitting the truth.

 

If there is no way for you to gather more information, be it a VAR under her car seat or a keylogger on her computer or an app on her phone, you may have to make a decision based only on what you know at this point.

 

But have you tried those other methods of intel gathering? I think talking about it with her will be pointless.

 

She doesn't drive a car.

All her conversations have been via her phone which she's changed password. I have pictures of the probable OM half naked and covering his bits which I found on her hone when helping her to transfer pics to computer. There are 5 of just him - she claimed it was a group text conversation ad all the males were sending pics trying to get one over each other. He didn't realise that they saved to et phone and she left the group. Highly unlikely as the pics are of ony one person. I also have map proof that she spent an evening at his house which she had lied to me about where she was staying. She tried to tell me she needed space from me and the person she was suppose to stay with decided to go away so she stayed at his an didn't want to tell me because I'd make assumptions (which I did). I have screenshots which prove she was there overnight. She has denied it once but I didn't mention the received pictures being the same person which is what I want to bring up tomorrow. Hope this helps

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GorillaTheater

It sounds like you have enough evidence.

 

She's cheating, no sex life to speak of, and she wants to separate. You want to reconcile. I'm not sure why, honestly, but it's your choice.

 

Except that it isn't, entirely. If you want to reconcile, it's going to take both of you putting in a lot of long, hard work, and much more her than you preferably. She doesn't sound like she's up for it.

 

I'm going to repost something that's not original with me, but addresses your situation brilliantly:

 

Just Let Them Go

 

The end result?

 

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,

let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

 

That is the end result.

 

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

 

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

 

Nothing else works better or quicker.

 

Let them go.

 

Agree with them and their feelings,

"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

 

Wouldn't that be true love?

 

If you really loved your spouse,

and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,

wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

 

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?

Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

 

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

 

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

 

But cheating, no excuses.

 

Think about cheating.

A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

 

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

 

Fighting the affair? For what reason?

To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?

What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?

They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

 

And for your last point,

The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

 

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

 

You give them what they want.

You don't fight them on this issue.

You agree with their feelings,

they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

 

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

 

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",

you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",

you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

 

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

 

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

 

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.

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Thanks for this GorillaTheater

 

Think it does sum me up at this moment.

Hope she can be honest with me and admit it (would be a big weight off my shoulders, I imagine)

 

I hope I have the strength and resolve to be firm but loving in my response and actions.

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Cheaters are never honest. Never ever ever. Until they are confronted by hard evidence - and even then, some of them will still lie, lie, lie.

 

If you want the truth you will have to snoop, trick or force it out of her. Is it worth it? Probably not. GT gave the best advice. You know what is going on, you don't need her honesty to know your best course of action.

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Update:

I confronted my wife on Friday and asked her straight if she had cheated on me (either sex, touching, or kissing).

 

She admitted she had kissed someone (The person was who I expected it to be), but that she hadn't done anything else. The way she told me means I believe her. I was able to stay calm and ask further questions about a few times in the last month where I feel she has lied to me and she has come clean and been honest about those situations. She tried to say that I had basically pushed her to put herself in this position (and that she feels she has lost integrity), yet I was quite firm in asserting that regardless, she is still married to me and her behaviour is unacceptable.

 

for a couple of days I slipped into wanting to have conversation with her all the time, and not giving her much space at all, probably making me and her worse (and maybe giving her reason to justify her actions).

 

I decided yesterday to go to a drop in counselling session and feel it has benefited me already. I am much calmer and have set goals for the way I go about things. I am starting the process of 'Tough Love' - Not quite a full 180, but certainly more withdrawn, spending more time away from home, not pandering to her every whim. The counsellor suggested I place a mental plaque on her head which reads 'upset/angry/rude child' and deal with her behaviours in a similar way to how I would deal with my children (by not giving in to demands, by allowing her space (or giving me space) when there is confrontation etc... I feel that this may be the start of something that could work.

 

My wife showed interest in where I went last night and asked if I had a good time. I didn't talk much but said I had a really good time, and I ended the conversation.

 

I can't think of what else to say at the moment.

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She admitted she had kissed someone (The person was who I expected it to be), but that she hadn't done anything else.

Dude if you believe this then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Did you see the part where cheaters always, always always LIE? She is fulfilling every single other stereotype so why not that one? She is gaslighting, she is blame-shifting.

 

What you're getting here is called the trickle truth. She will reveal a bit at a time in order for you to not get too angry all at once.

 

So she kissed someone, that's unacceptable but it's not too bad, you can work through that, not worth throwing the marriage away for. Then in a month's time oh maybe there was a bit of touching too but hey you forgave the kissing so what's a little bit of touching eh, not much different. Then another month later, yeah actually you know I said there was touching, well we weren't wearing any clothes at the time but hey that's not all that much different is it, you forgave the touching and I never said we were clothed so technically I didn't lie. Another month later hmm actually you know I said touching well it was his penis doing the touching but I never said which body part so I didn't lie technically and hey you were quite happy to forgive naked touching so what's the difference...?

 

They. Always. Lie.

 

So OP what is your plan of action?

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Update and advice quickly please (only have a few hours)

 

Pete, bingo-she's been shagging the guy behind my back.

She is out for an hour and left her phone. Luckily I clocked her pin so went to her messages and have 60 photos from the past few days which categorically confirm your assertions, and my gut feeling.

 

Advice please!!

I am out as soon as she gets back so I was planning on waking her when I get back in (11pm) an telling her I know. I want to tell her the following (we have 3 children, eldest is hers from previous relationship)

 

You can pack your bag tonight an not come home from work tomorrow, you are welcome at his, I'm sure. You can come back whenever you wish to see the kids, I will not stop you from doing that, but you are not to stay over at this house.

I will be getting in touch with a solicitor in the next day or so to explore my options. I will talk to you when you are ready to have an adult conversation and I will be calm and respectful to you.

 

 

Please let me know what you think

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