I only become potentially attractive to women in organic social contexts

[EthanBlack]

I spent a lot of my mid to late 20's going out to bars and other alcohol/party related events with my then single guy friends. Nothing ever happened for me. My taller, more conventionally attractive guy friends would occassionally hit a home run but it never worked for me.

 

I went to school for engineering at a time where there were like 2 girls for every 100 guys. After school, I went straight into the world of work where...you guessed it...it was 99% guys.

 

Online dating was the worst. I'd send out 100 custom messages to girls and get back one reply and it never went anywhere. I took great photos. Wrote a nice profile. I even had my friends proof read my profile. It was worse than hitting the bars.

 

Things didn't really change until I became more established in my career and I had the financial resources to venture out and explore more of my hobbies/interests which put me in contact with women on a regular basis. Even this didn't really work but it was better than hitting the bars meeting random people.

 

I haven't had a lot of relationships but the few that I've had, they developed out of repeated contact with the same women over a period of time. I find that with certain women, they can get attracted to me over time. There was maybe an initial interest at the first time we met but then things grew over time as we gradually got to become familiar with each other. And then usually, I made the move when I felt her interest to me was at her peak and what I got was usually an enthusiastic yes and things went from there.

 

I am NOT an unattractive guy. It took me years to recognize that. Just because I don't appeal to women in bar settings or in online dating doesn't make me unattractive. I have proof of that in my previous relationships and with the organic activities I participate in now which allow face to face contact with women who can get to know me over a period of time.

 

I'm an interesting guy when you get to know me. It's just that my personality, my charm and all that bleeds through better over repeated contact. I'm never gonna be the kinda guy who is gonna make women swoon after seeing me for a couple minutes. I take care of myself physically and am healthy and in shape but I'm just never gonna be that guy who can pull it off.

 

Unfortunately, in this digital age we live in, repeated face to face contact with the same group of women is becoming increasingly rare. If anything, this digital age has made the dating prospects of those who are already conventionally physically attractive even better. As if they didn't already have enough luck by winning the genetic lottery.

[Garcon1986]

Welcome to LS. Do you have a question old chap? It's true, a lot of what you say - but we can't sulk over the cards we were handed eh?

[EthanBlack]

Welcome to LS. Do you have a question old chap? It's true, a lot of what you say - but we can't sulk over the cards we were handed eh?

 

Not really a question but just wanted to hear opinions and also experiences as well.

 

And yah that's the thing, we need to take responsibility for the cards we were dealt. Nobody is entitled to anything whether you're handsome, average looking or ugly. Tall or short. I think that's the biggest lesson of life.

 

We need to each find what works for us. For some of us, it's just gonna be a lot harder. But we only have one life. Sulking is a waste of time.

[Garcon1986]

In that case when I started out I joined an Irish dance group because I thought it would be the easiest way for me to get attention from the ladies, because that was the place where they went. I thoroughly enjoyed the sport, but my approach was to talk to the first lady next to me and then when rejected, move on to the next one. This was my very first experience dating 10 years ago. I fairly rapidly got kicked out of the group with no clue about what I had done wrong. I didn't inappropriately touch, I didn't assault, I didn't yell, I just made them feel subjectively uncomfortable. Now I know my failings and have went on plenty of dates since then. There was a period of time when I only would date outside my ethnicity because that's what I was interested in, and then I realized that it is extremely difficult for Asian men to be physically attractive to other ethnicities. So I've moved on from that period of my life. I have been rejected by so many people I don't care to count anymore. Now, I work on my physical appearance, work on being the smooth charming man that women crave, and talk to random people as much as possible so my charm will be ready for when the excellent woman comes my way. I can't get the attention of the most attractive lady in the room but, on every other metric, I outwit and outmatch her street smarts/ professional success/ whatever. I've lost the genetic lottery and don't look as smooth as Daniel Craig, but I'm trying to compensate in every other way. So in conclusion, dating life has been unfair to me, but I've tried to learn as fast as I know how.

[EthanBlack]

In that case when I started out I joined an Irish dance group because I thought it would be the easiest way for me to get attention from the ladies, because that was the place where they went. I thoroughly enjoyed the sport, but my approach was to talk to the first lady next to me and then when rejected, move on to the next one. This was my very first experience dating 10 years ago. I fairly rapidly got kicked out of the group with no clue about what I had done wrong. I didn't inappropriately touch, I didn't assault, I didn't yell, I just made them feel subjectively uncomfortable. Now I know my failings and have went on plenty of dates since then. There was a period of time when I only would date outside my ethnicity because that's what I was interested in, and then I realized that it is extremely difficult for Asian men to be physically attractive to other ethnicities. So I've moved on from that period of my life. I have been rejected by so many people I don't care to count anymore. Now, I work on my physical appearance, work on being the smooth charming man that women crave, and talk to random people as much as possible so my charm will be ready for when the excellent woman comes my way. I can't get the attention of the most attractive lady in the room but, on every other metric, I outwit and outmatch her street smarts/ professional success/ whatever. I've lost the genetic lottery and don't look as smooth as Daniel Craig, but I'm trying to compensate in every other way. So in conclusion, dating life has been unfair to me, but I've tried to learn as fast as I know how.

 

I'm an Asian man too. I certainly can relate to what you're saying and I think Asian men do face stigma in the dating realm but I also think we need to take some partial responsibility for it too. Yeah we're not gonna be physically appealing to most girls but that's not something we can control. But we do need to take responsibility for the things we can control. A lot of Asian men, including myself at one point, lack a great deal of social awareness. We're a very direct and blunt culture compared to the Anglo-Saxon culture which favors subtleties and superficiality of politeness.

 

What you did with that Irish dance group, any guy even if he was white, would have been rejected. You do not go into group social events to hit on every girl you find attractive. You go there because you enjoy the activity and through that, you gradually get to know the people and let them get to know you and maybe something will develop with one of them. That's how the anglo-saxon culture works. Even if everyone's intention to join group social settings is to find someone to date, you can't go in there acting with that purpose. In asian culture, asians are more practical and so they tend to even form social groups for the direct purpose of dating. That's just not how anglo-saxons operate. Attraction takes time for most women. They are not only analyzing your physical looks. They tend to examine the overall package. Yah white guys have the advantage cause they pass the first level cause they have the right look but that doesn't mean they pass everything else. The white guys you see who have success in dating, they've got other things going for them too but Asian men just like to blame the fact that they're white and that must be it. I honestly hope you know why you got rejected by women in that group because if you don't, then you really lack some social awareness and I'd work on that first.

 

 

Iti's easy to just blame your ethnicity on lack of dating success. And yes, unfortunately there are women who will never be attracted to an Asian guy. But there are also a lot who are. But you need to meet them in the right context. Like I said, online dating and going to bars won't work for most Asian men. Group activity based events are the best bet for Asian men but you need to approach them with a great deal of awareness. Get to know everyone. Let them get to know you. And over time, things will happen. Even if you don't date anyone, you make friends and you get a community going and that's always attractive to women. Nobody likes to date some loner guy. Even if you find yourself in a relationship, at some point, the both of you will yearn to be part of something more than just the two of you. Trust me, I've been in relationships (with both white women and Asian women) and there always comes a time when the two of you just isn't enough.

Edited October 6, 2018 by EthanBlack

[preraph]

I was also that way to a certain extent. I got a lot more interest when I was in a setting (in my case record store and music scene) where I would repeatedly see and talk to people. Out at bars, often, all the guys were watching the same two hottest blonds in the room and were oblivious to me. Nothing wrong with it. Just know that you have to put yourself in those situations to accomplish meeting someone!

[shydad]

Online dating was the worst. I'd send out 100 custom messages to girls and get back one reply and it never went anywhere. I took great photos. Wrote a nice profile. I even had my friends proof read my profile. It was worse than hitting the bars. ... just wanted to hear opinions and also experiences as well.

Hi EthanBlack, I think this is pretty typical, and reasonably matches my own experience. On Match, I estimated it took me about 90 hours of time before I was able to meet a woman. The bulk of that time was spent sending messages out, just like you said. That's happened two times so far. Given the value I place on a lifelong relationship, and the potential, I considered the time to be well spent. However, on Bumble, you don't have to send out messages, thus bypassing the problem you stated. After a few days of swiping, which accounted for no more than an hour total, I was chatting with women, one of which met with me and it's going great!

 

I have been rejected by so many people I don't care to count anymore.

What is rejection, though? If you meet and don't click, that's nobody's fault. If it's online dating, and you're ignored or ghosted, the woman is probably being bombarded with messages from men. Again, that's not rejection if she can't keep up. Alternately, if she's not bombarded with messages, I'd wonder if she has a kind heart and accepts imperfection. Do you want to have a relationship with such a woman? I don't.

[EthanBlack]

What is rejection, though? If you meet and don't click, that's nobody's fault. If it's online dating, and you're ignored or ghosted, the woman is probably being bombarded with messages from men. Again, that's not rejection if she can't keep up. Alternately, if she's not bombarded with messages, I'd wonder if she has a kind heart and accepts imperfection. Do you want to have a relationship with such a woman? I don't.

 

Except it's not about "clicking." It's about physical attraction. Yah you can keep telling me it's not about that but it is. I've seen it time and time again and I have enough evidence from real life to prove that women are just as shallow as men.

 

A woman can totally respect and admire you for your accomplishments and for your great qualities but if she can't see herself sleeping with you, nothing is ever gonna happen. She can like you and even develop strong feelings of friendship towards you but the two of you will never develop an intimate relationship.

 

Instead, she's likely gonna date some guy who is not half of the man you are but because she's physically attracted to him, all his "good" qualities will become amplified.

 

Haven't you seen some girl who is dating someone who everyone thinks is a ****ing loser but she keeps saying, "oh he's got such great qualities, for example, he does X" but when that X is so freaking generic but because she's attracted to him, all his good qualities become magnified. That same quality on a guy she's not attracted to won't matter at all to her.

[elaine567]

A woman can totally respect and admire you for your accomplishments and for your great qualities but if she can't see herself sleeping with you, nothing is ever gonna happen. She can like you and even develop strong feelings of friendship towards you but the two of you will never develop an intimate relationship.

 

Yes, but that is about basic human attraction.

First question: "Can I see myself kissing or sleeping with this guy?"

Yes, No or Maybe.

Yes can turn to a No.

Maybe can turn to a Yes or a No.

But No tends to stay as a No.

It is a complete waste of everyone's time to actually date someone who you have no intention of sleeping with, hence the friend zone.

Great guy, but not bf material.

 

Some women especially when young and naive or who have issues are going to turn to "bad guys", but most women just want a good guy who she is also attracted to.

[brigit87]

.

 

 

Nobody likes to date some loner guy. Even if you find yourself in a relationship, at some point, the both of you will yearn to be part of something more than just the two of you. Trust me, I've been in relationships (with both white women and Asian women) and there always comes a time when the two of you just isn't enough.

 

Not really. My husband had only a few friends and I liked that since he had more time for me. And, I like it when its just the two of us watching TV or playing with the dog. It's relaxing.

 

You need to go the more traditional route. Look for a real matchmaker not Match.com, or go to your local church, volunteer and let everyone know your interested in marriage.

[shydad]

Except it's not about "clicking." It's about physical attraction.

Hi EthanBlack, I think the right woman will appreciate all that you have to offer. When this woman discovers you, you will click.

 

I will provide two forms of evidence:

 

1) My first "offline" love interest I was ridiculously attracted to. Her appearance was very average, yet her kind heart was like none I had seen before. I'm sure if a picture of her was on a dating app, many men would left swipe. However, I found who she was to be irresistible. Physical intimacy would not have been a problem. She already had a man, but this experience brought perfect clarity to me as to the most important trait I am looking for in a woman (which in turn led to my current love interest ).

 

With that said, no matter how amazing a woman looks, if she has a repulsive personality, she is not attractive, at ALL.

 

2) ...which leads to my second form of evidence. Go ahead and google search for divorced supermodels. I don't think I really need to say any more about that...

 

So yea, I have to disagree. I think the right woman, a good, quality woman, will find you very attractive, for more reasons than just your physical appearance. (And she will desire you physically, but that will be enhanced by her desire for you, as a person.) I think you need to keep at this, until you find that woman who wants you for who you are.

 

Please don't give up, and if you have success, don't forget to share.

[sabaton]

've seen it time and time again and I have enough evidence from real life to prove that women are just as shallow as men.

Alright, first of all let's start with breaking down the long-held belief that people are shallow for pursuing the people they want, and for dating the people they date because they are perceived to be attractive by those who date them.

 

 

Women aren't shallow for wanting a manas attractive as they are. Do you carry the risk of getting pregnant and then becoming hella vulnerable for 9 months and then having to give birth and raising a child?

Childbirth can destroy a woman's body and mental health. Do you go through those risks? No, but women do. That means women got a right to hold out for Brad Pitt if Brad Pitt wants them.

 

 

 

No one is owed anything. Beautiful men aren't owed anything, and neither are beautiful women.

 

What we get in the dating world, what we get out of life is what we can get, and someone not wanting you or me doesn't make that girl shallow.

 

A woman can totally respect and admire you for your accomplishments and for your great qualities but if she can't see herself sleeping with you,nothing is ever gonna happen.

That's her right, no?

 

Women have the right to sleep with whoever they want, no matter what men might think of those lucky few who get to sleep with the women they want.

 

She can like you and even develop strong feelings of friendship towards you but the two of you will never develop an intimate relationship.

Just like a man can like a woman and develop strong feelings of friendship towards him, but he would never date her because he's only got eyes for the gorgeous women who are out of his league, leaving the woman who'd be an amazing partner alone. And sexually frustrated.

 

 

Instead, she's likely gonna date some guy who is not half of the man you are but because she's physically attracted to him, all his "good" qualities will become amplified.

What makes you believe that the guy the woman is dating is less of a man when compared to the guy who is sitting on a bench of bitterness complaining that gorgeous women won't date him?

 

Money? Women in the western world don't care about money, dude. What do you think feminism is about?

 

It's to empower women, to give them the means to survive without a man's money, so they can pick the man they are sexually attracted to instead of having to marry men they are physically repulsed by, and that's how it should be. And please, don't make me fall asleep by telling me that women are only attracted to hot men.

 

 

Haven't you seen some girl who is dating someone who everyone thinks is a ****ing loser but she keeps saying, "oh he's got such great qualities, for example, he does X" but when that X is so freaking generic but because she's attracted to him, all his good qualities become magnified. That same quality on a guy she's not attracted to won't matter at all to her.

Nope. I don't associate with nice guys or with jerks.

 

Usually, nice guys will look at physically attractive men, men who are confident and have sexual success with women and in their biternes and sexual envy they will paint the guy as being an amazingly awful human being that the girl shouldn't be with,

 

that the nice guy is the one who deserves the girl because he takes care of dogs on the weekend, or because he's got a masters or a phD from a top 20 worlds college or something, and then he blames his personal failings on not being physically hot and then saying that if 'I looked like a male model she would be with me and not with that guy who fulfills all of her sexual and emotional needs.

Edited October 16, 2018 by sabaton

[Rotn'roses]

Hmmm...Milton's, "Paradise Lost" comes to mind when you say organically social contexts.

Perhaps try a different locale in which to meet a partner.

Maybe meditation would be a great way to clear your mind if there are any blockages preventing you from enjoying a females company? I can feel your frustration and agony and I pray peace for your world-worn and weary soul right now. Take heart, and save some hope for a brighter future. Quiet and meditative therapy connecting you to allof your inner parts and communicating inside yourself in perfect harmony is what you need most, I would think, at this point in time. How can you connect with that perfect woman when your inner and outer form are so disconnected from one another. Find peace in yourself before you can find peace in another being. I think you may find more happiness if you try that route. But, what do I know? I'm just saying...maybe you dont have as much in your life as you think because you realize that the most important thing in life is what you have to share with someone else on the inside. The whole world could fall apart tomorrow and all you have left is you and your inner qualities...what have you cultivated on the inside that would be worth all the beauty in the world? Work on that, and surely you will find what you are looking for in this lifetime. Create your own beauty from the inside if you seek the beauty from the outside.

[Chilli]

cancel this one

[outwithpeterpan]

I spent a lot of my mid to late 20's going out to bars and other alcohol/party related events with my then single guy friends. Nothing ever happened for me. My taller, more conventionally attractive guy friends would occassionally hit a home run but it never worked for me.

 

I went to school for engineering at a time where there were like 2 girls for every 100 guys. After school, I went straight into the world of work where...you guessed it...it was 99% guys.

 

Online dating was the worst. I'd send out 100 custom messages to girls and get back one reply and it never went anywhere. I took great photos. Wrote a nice profile. I even had my friends proof read my profile. It was worse than hitting the bars.

 

Things didn't really change until I became more established in my career and I had the financial resources to venture out and explore more of my hobbies/interests which put me in contact with women on a regular basis. Even this didn't really work but it was better than hitting the bars meeting random people.

 

I haven't had a lot of relationships but the few that I've had, they developed out of repeated contact with the same women over a period of time. I find that with certain women, they can get attracted to me over time. There was maybe an initial interest at the first time we met but then things grew over time as we gradually got to become familiar with each other. And then usually, I made the move when I felt her interest to me was at her peak and what I got was usually an enthusiastic yes and things went from there.

 

I am NOT an unattractive guy. It took me years to recognize that. Just because I don't appeal to women in bar settings or in online dating doesn't make me unattractive. I have proof of that in my previous relationships and with the organic activities I participate in now which allow face to face contact with women who can get to know me over a period of time.

 

I'm an interesting guy when you get to know me. It's just that my personality, my charm and all that bleeds through better over repeated contact. I'm never gonna be the kinda guy who is gonna make women swoon after seeing me for a couple minutes. I take care of myself physically and am healthy and in shape but I'm just never gonna be that guy who can pull it off.

 

Unfortunately, in this digital age we live in, repeated face to face contact with the same group of women is becoming increasingly rare. If anything, this digital age has made the dating prospects of those who are already conventionally physically attractive even better. As if they didn't already have enough luck by winning the genetic lottery.

 

Dude, it's not splitting the atom. Be hot, and if you aren't (like me), go for cool instead. Use that to get them through the door, then if you also click personality-wise, you've got someone you can date.

 

I've been in your shoes (bitter and in a rut that spirals on you), I'd guess you just need to just power through it and focus on making friends and generally connecting with people socially. The worst thing you can do is be in your own head too much.

 

Online dating sites don't work for me either, by the way. I can only meet girls in person.